PinkOrchid Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 This story has probably been told here a thousand or more times, but here is my version... My husband and I have been married 6 years. We have 2 children (5 & 3). He is mostly a terrible husband (certainly not the worst I've seen though), but he loves me and the kids very much. I no longer love him for several reasons, but I care deeply about his feelings and well-being. The main problem is a huge cultural difference. He is Eastern European and I am American. He is very dominant in nature, and has made some attempts to overcome that. He often makes fun of me, calls me names, and really enjoys egging me on, which is unfotunately cultural normal for him. I used to react to his antagonism, but now I just listen and don't respond much since I don't enjoy arguing. He is very negative, and finds faults in everyone, especially in my friends and family. We very rarely hang out in the same company because I am afraid he will embarrass me (which he usually does), embarrass himself, or hurt someone I hold dear emotionally. He has the intelligence and capability to behave "normally" but often chooses not to. We can hang out with his friends, but not mine. He dislikes my friends, and they dislike him. Same with family - we often see his family and he almost never wants to see my family. He refers to my family as loosers and other deragatory terms. My family is actually quite normal. The kids and I visit my family often without my husband, and he doesn't have a problem with that. Strangely, he doesn't have a problem if I hang out with my friends alone...but of course he always makes comments about what a waste of time it is for me. But I see my friends about once a week regardless, and I have a great time with them. I don't have any delusions about my husband, which is probably why I am considering divorce - and I have been considering divorce for at least 3 years. I know most people would find my husband to be a complete jerk. He is rude, arrogant, and mean. He does have some redeeming qualities too - he has a good job, provides well for the family, can be affectionate, and helps with the kids (sort of). He is also very reliable. In the past, we have gotten into physical fights 3 or 4 times - this has not happened for the last 2 years. I have never fought so extremely with anyone else I have been with. Now I feel like I am almost robotic in my reactions to him because I hate fighting so much and certainly don't enjoy physical confrontations. So, in my mind I just think about how much I hate him and his behavior when he pisses me off. Then it passes, and I am fine. But he gets away with calling me a bitch, an idiot, etc without any reaction from me. I know this sounds strange, but his words aren't really very hurtful to me anymore. I am pretty strong emotionally, and I have a decent self-esteem. But obviously, his behavior, affects how I feel about him. I avoid my husband most of the time and spend time with my kids, doing hobbies, etc. I enjoy being alone. When he is in the room, I sometimes get annoyed and want him to leave. I often sleep in other rooms in the house to get away from him. He know that he annoys me and I often tell him to leave my presence. Sometimes he will sit in a room and watch me just to bother me. We travel separately, have mostly separate social lives, don't have sex ever, etc. He hasn't cheated on me that I know of, and I have cheated on him after 3 years of no sex. I once attempted to restore our sex life, but he was/is not interested in having sex with me. I am no longer interested in having sex with him either. I don't think I would care if he cheated. I joke with my husband about finding a nice boyfriend, and he says that that is fine and he will just find 3 or 4 girlfriends, but I'm sure he doesn't mean it. I have a good male friend I often confide in, and have some warm fuzzy feelings for him because he provides me the emotional support that my marriage lacks. My husband does not know this friend, but I have known him since I was 16. My friend and I don't talk about my husband or marriage, but other things. My friend is kind and peaceful, and in no situation to be with me. He has a lot of his own problems (he's not married, but has a child and drama with the child's mother; he and the child's mother are not together). He and I just keep each other company because we feel we need the emotional support. This friend fills a real void for me and I fill a void for him. Yes, I know it is wrong on many levels. But I really appreciate the company of a nice person who doesn't criticize me. We watch movies together, hold hands, and talk a lot about a wide variety of topics. Sometimes my husband and I get along, and we have long conversations about culture, politics, etc. I adore him in some ways, and I am attached to him because I've been with him for a while. I can't imagine not having him around, which probably sounds weird. Yes, I know I can't leave him and have him around at the same time. My husband is fairly decent to the kids most of the time, but also can be too harsh with them. There is no physical abuse, but he has no patience with them. If he tries to teach them anything and they don't get it right away, he blows up and says things like, "you'll never get it" or "this is pointless." Not nice. So, I just make sure he doesn't try to teach them things. He is good with them with games like hide and seek, tag, etc. He refuses to go to school events though - like plays or teacher conferences. He thinks they are unimportant. The kids love him very much - he is their dad. They have a relatively high standard of living in a nice suburban house. We don't fight in front of the kids (anymore) since I just refuse to fight. So, the kids actually have a very nice "normal" family life on the surface. My husband will not consider counseling. He has told me that he is not willing to change. So either I need to tolerate him or move on. I feel like I want something else in life, and because of that I feel very selfish. I feel that I would be destroying 3 lives (husband's and 2 kids') to improve my life. I think my husband and kids are very happy (strange, I know). But I either want to be alone, or want a kind, respectful husband who I enjoy spending time with. So, I know this is long, so I will stop here and wait for some opinions.
sb129 Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 Sounds like you have already made up your mind PinkOrchid. Sorry to hear about the demise of your marriage. Its a shame your H refuses to go to MC- do you think he would go to it if he knew how close you were to leaving? Do you want to salvage your marriage? Or have you already given up on it? Your kids probably are aware of some tensions between you and your H- kids can be very perceptive.
Author PinkOrchid Posted December 21, 2008 Author Posted December 21, 2008 No, I have not made up my mind. If my husband could be respectful and nice, I would stay. But he is unwilling to seek help or change. He wants to continue to be himself, and I can't blame him for that. My main dilemma is a feeling of selfishness because I really want the best for my children. I want them to have an intact family, a "normal" family life, and I feel selfish when I think of denying them of that for my own personal pleasure.
Ronni_W Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 My main dilemma is a feeling of selfishness because I really want the best for my children. I want them to have an intact family, a "normal" family life, and I feel selfish when I think of denying them of that for my own personal pleasure. For me, removing yourself and your children from a miserable situation is about self-protection, not mere "personal pleasure". And you first need to protect yourself if you hope to be able to be an advocate for your children. This is NOT a "normal family life" that you will be denying them, it is an emotionally abusive and toxic situation from which you will be protecting them. If you stay, you may be perpetrating even bigger harm on your children -- by sending them the message that it is acceptable to mistreat, insult and be cruel to others (like their dad is doing), and/or that is permissible to allow others to treat them (your kids) like that. You also cannot foresee how your husband will treat the kids as they grow older...he may just turn his self-loathing and hostility on them, too. As you've described things, there would be nothing "selfish" about you living up to your parental and self-obligation to ensure your own and your children's emotional health and well-being. This environment is NOT what is best for the kids or for you.
Author PinkOrchid Posted December 21, 2008 Author Posted December 21, 2008 Thanks for your input Ronni, You are right that my marriage is toxic - I am well aware of that. But my children are not very affected by it at the moment. Maybe in the future they would be - only time would tell I suppose. Right now, my children truly are happy and love both me and their dad. One big thing- which is a common issue for mothers from what I've read - is that I have a lot more control over my kids' interactions with my husband now than I would if we were to divorce. He works a lot, and they are mostly with me. Visitation with him alone would make me worry because he is not exactly the nuturing type, you know. More than what I want for myself, I realy do want what is best for my children. And I just don't know what that is exactly.
Ronni_W Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 , I realy do want what is best for my children. And I just don't know what that is exactly. Yeah, you do -- trust your heart and your mother's intuition. Your head might be trying to tell you that you don't know...probably cos doing what your intuition is telling you to do will have its own pitfalls and challenges. Perhaps you could consider what guidance you might get from people who really love you and your kids; people who don't have their own agendas and just have your kids' best interests at heart. Would their counsel mostly match with what your own heart-intuition is saying? Cos that would be a good confirmation that you're on the right track, I think. Either way, though, you will have times of doubt and uncertainty about your decision. So it's more about making the wisest choice that you can make in the present...based on your experience and the information that is currently available to you. That's all that you can ask of yourself. And it will be more than good enough.
signedin2008 Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 We watch movies together, hold hands, and talk a lot about a wide variety of topics. You have cheated and now you're cheating. You ARE having an affair. The only way out of it is IF this guy that you're holding hands with is your dad or brother, but he is not. You are cheating on your husband! You need to stop it or file for divorce.
Author PinkOrchid Posted December 21, 2008 Author Posted December 21, 2008 Ronni, Thank you for your advice. I have not asked for guidance from family and friends. My friends dislike my husband, so they would not be able to think in terms of just what is best for the kids. I guess that is why I am here getting advice from strangers. signedin2008, I am very aware of what you pointed out, which is why I wrote it above. An affair/affairs are not my main concern. The affair has nothing to do with my decision to stay or leave. My concern is whether I should live in the house with a man who is verbally abusive to me and whom I don't love in order to give my children a good life (they are happy, as I stated above). From my point of view, my marriage as most people think of marriage is not really salvageable at this point, which is why my husband and I have separate social lives. We live together because of the children, and that has been stated many times by both him and me. Of course, my husband and I have some interaction because we live together. But we are not emotionally married at this point, if you can understand that. Since we've known each other so long, of course there is some attachment. As I write this, he has not been home for 2 days (not because of a fight, but because he is out somewhere). I think it is easy to place judgement on someone who is havnig an affair, especially if you have never experienced a marriage like mine. I have few qualms about the affair, because my husband provides me no emotional support or sex, and he doesn't want to. My concern is whether I should remain with my husband in the same house for the sake of the children. We have a nice house, they have friends here, I am not totally miserable, but I'm (obviously) certainly not happy.
whichwayisup Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 Point blank - Be honest with him. Tell him that you're unhappy and if things don't change, he doesn't do counselling with you, try harder to BE a husband, then the marriage IS going to get worse and end up in divorce. Tell him how you feel inside, don't hold back. He may need to really see and feel how different life is without you in it, see how serious you are about walking out. You two can still be excellent parents to your children, just in two different houses. To cheat on him is not going to fix this, it'll make it more complicated and painful. Don't involve an OM in your life UNTIL you're free to do so.
LakesideDream Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 As I read the original post I see two problems. First, the H is abusive, both emotionally distant, verbally agressive, and physically abusive. Nobody needs to force themselves to live under those conditions. These are tough times. The economy is a mess and getting worse. There will be many new stressors and triggers. If remaining married and in the house has a potential of danger. Deal with it now. The affair is another problem. Especially in the above situation. I don't care how cavilieer and macho the H is, he may not react well when the infideliety is discovered. It's probably time time to make decisions. If love isn't involved in the affair why continue it? I can't critisize affairs of the heart. Sex affairs? Much less necessary. OP, why not use the next week or two to decide what you need to do? There is a lot of advice here.. and help if you need it. Have the best holiday you can and start the new year with a new outlook.
signedin2008 Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 As I write this, he has not been home for 2 days (not because of a fight, but because he is out somewhere). Is he having an affair? Do you want to know or does it matter to you at all?
Enema Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 Women are like monkeys... they don't let go of one branch until the next one is in sight. ie. Now that you're having an affair, you're ready to divorce. Why are they never responsible enough to divorce before cheating? Are they that insecure about being alone?
Meet 4 Coffee Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 Here we have a case of an abusive husband. Can you really blame her? It's not a case of finding another guy before the divorce, it's about how much abuse can a woman take before she takes a gun to his head.
lkjh Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 I agreed with you up until the point about you cheating. When you have your emotions somewhere else you can get really annoyed with your partner and tend to rewrite history. You must have liked those annoying things about him at one point but now you are invested in another man. It seems like you are using your H for finacial support meanwhile you don't seem like the best wife. You cheat on him avoid him as much as possible, and you lie about your "friend". No offense but you have a big problem to.
Sands_of_time Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 Pink--I wish you luck on this journey. It is not going to be easy no matter which avenue you decide to take. An affair is usually a symptom of something deeper. It is never justified but it happens--that's reality. If you decide to leave your husband you can be sure he is going to do some "investigating" and if he uncovers the 3rd party--no matter if you slept with him or not, it will not be pretty for anyone. If you leave, leave of your own free will without the support of this 3rd party. Get support from your family and friends, paster, anyone but NOT a 3rd party. If you decide that you need to leave make sure the 3rd party is metaphorically 100 miles away from the situation. Good luck....I am rooting for you!
LovieDove24 Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 Ugh, sounds like a bad boyfriend I once had. None of my friends liked him (thats a very bad sign) and he was always so damn negative. He could be sweet and kind occasionaly but those moments were so few and far between they didnt even make a difference. So why the hell was I even with him? Well for starters I had a child with him so that was a huge pull. But after some counseling I've realized I seek out partners who fulfill my need for abandonment that I felt as a child. Sounds like a lotta psychobabble but its true. I'm sorry but PEOPLE CANNOT CHANGE THEIR PERSONALITY. They can work on bettering their traits but it doesnt seem like he's willing to even do that.
Posco_Proudfoot Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 PinkOrchid, I have no issues what you've done up to this point. I do have a question: Is your H calling you bitch and no good, etc in front of your kids? Ever? It's a toxic marriage no doubt. But I think he's actions effect them much more than you think.
Sands_of_time Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 AlainasMama--do you think it's possible for people to change if they are in the right environment and under the right circumstances?
Author PinkOrchid Posted December 24, 2008 Author Posted December 24, 2008 All, Thanks for all of the advice. For those of you who were wondering - my husband did not display much of his abusive side until after we had children. Looking back, I see the signs, but they were not completely obvious to me at the time. H tends not to be abusive toward me in front of the kids. Occasionally he is, but not often. He is very negative and critical of other people in front of them, which bothers me, but I really can't do anything about it. I am not using H solely for financial support, either, by the way. I make more money than he does. I "use" him as a father for my children because with him around they are happier and have more money to fund their activities, etc. Without him, I would have enough money to live, just not as much money as I do now. The affair has not pushed me to re-write history. I understand that happens in many cases, especially when love is involved. But honestly,this person I am hanging out with is just a great close friend. I am not in love with him and he is not in love with me. We're not having sex - we just hang out to talk, watch movies, and hold hands. I don't dream about a future with him, and I don't think of him all hours of the day. If he weren't a guy, it definitely wouldn't be considered an affair. But I do understand it is a bit beyond the boundaries of simple friendship. It is just really nice to be around someone who is pleasant, if that makes sense to anyone here. My husband has annoyed me for years - not just during the course of the affair. And I think my assessment of him above is fair. I try to see his good qualities too. I really try to see both sides of the story, but of course I am probably biased. As for H leaving for days at a time - I am not sure what he is doing because I don't ask. If I ask, he won't tell me anyway. He has done this for years. He has never been very sexually interested in me, but I'm not sure if he just has a low libido or if it's just me...who knows. I do not care where he is or what he is doing when he is out. In any case, I know he is not planning on leaving me even if he is having an affair/affairs. Culturally, it would be really normal to have a wife and several girlfriends. Leaving one's wife, however, is not very acceptable, especially with kids involved. I have tried to talk to H about my problems with the marriage, but his response is always the same: if you don't like who I am, then leave. He is not willing to go to therapy and he is not willing to change at all. So, for me, the marriage is mostly of convenience. I'm not sure what it is for him, but he has mentioned in the past that we would not be married if it weren't for the kids. I will spend some time over the holidays thinking, but it is really not an easy situation, and I am really confused.
Author PinkOrchid Posted December 24, 2008 Author Posted December 24, 2008 Ugh, sounds like a bad boyfriend I once had. None of my friends liked him (thats a very bad sign) and he was always so damn negative. He could be sweet and kind occasionaly but those moments were so few and far between they didnt even make a difference. So why the hell was I even with him? Well for starters I had a child with him so that was a huge pull. But after some counseling I've realized I seek out partners who fulfill my need for abandonment that I felt as a child. Sounds like a lotta psychobabble but its true. I'm sorry but PEOPLE CANNOT CHANGE THEIR PERSONALITY. They can work on bettering their traits but it doesnt seem like he's willing to even do that. AlainasMama, So you have a child with this boyfriend. How is it co-parenting with someone like this? Is it pure hell? I just can't imagine handing the kids over to him for the weekend (or more). I realize that H is not likely to change any part of his personality. I'm not even hoping for that possibility at this point. Thanks for sharing your story.
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