Any would be great...

[ontheedge22]

Well this is my first time every posting anything like this so I will try to make it so that everything is clear and legible.

 

To start off I'm male and 26 years old. My fiance is also 26 years old. We have been together for 13 months, 9 of which we have been living together. We got engaged about 5 months ago and plan(ed) on getting married next November.

 

She lost her job about aprrox 4 months ago and has been unemployed since. Now before I go any further I need to make it clear that the issues were having did not start once she became unemployed...they were present before but just not at this caliber. Ive been noticing an utter lack of any motivation on her part. She has made it a habit of not doing anything at all anymore. I go to work from 8am-4pm. When I get home she is still asleep r just waking up. She stays up until 5-6am every morning watching tv. She seems to have no motivation to get a job or pull any of her weight around our apt. The only thing she does is cook...and when I say cook I mean make macaroni and cheese. As far as the cleaning goes it's all left up to me. Ive tried to talk to her many times about this and she reacts like a 15 year old and says she doesnt want to hear it then storms out the room. She's quite messy and leave dishes everywhere in our apt and if she happens to spill something while she's eating she just leaves it on the floor. Ive tried to explain to her that I'm not looking for a maid and that since Im the only one bringing in the money as well as paying my, our and her bills that I would like her to attempt to keep the apt somewhat tiday...I dont think it's too much to ask. She responds with something like "I'm not perfect and at least im not ****ing around on you like your ex". She also tells me that by asking her to pick up after herself and clean the messes she makes that it's directly affecting her self worth.

 

I'm going to stop there because there's so much I want to say but I'm not able to get it all out at once. I know most people will just suggest I leave her, but I'm looking for an actual solution to get it through to her and make her understand where I'm coming from. Oh, and were already tried couples counseling. It worked but only while we were there in the room...as soon as we would leave the office she would revert back to the same way.

 

Thanks,

Exhausted

[Moose]

"I'm not perfect and at least im not ****ing around on you like your ex".

K, you will need to expand on this comment. It seems to me there are more dynamics at work here than what you've been able to post.

[ontheedge22]

K, you will need to expand on this comment. It seems to me there are more dynamics at work here than what you've been able to post.

 

Well she is refering to a prior LTR I had with someone 2 years ago. We were together for 3 years and it ended with her cheating on me. So she is just referencing how bad my prior LTR was and how she is at least not cheating on my like my ex was.

[Moose]

Well she is refering to a prior LTR I had with someone 2 years ago. We were together for 3 years and it ended with her cheating on me. So she is just referencing how bad my prior LTR was and how she is at least not cheating on my like my ex was.

Well, WHATEVER you do, don't tell you fiance' that at least your ex kept a better apartment......

 

Any hoot, I think you both need to re consider marriage. You're already going through the motions, (living together), and experiencing things that you don't appreciate about each other, not focusing on the relationship aspect of things, the positive things.

 

BUT, you will need to eventually put your foot down...

 

I would simply tell her that as her husband, you will expect equal duties around the house. If she doesn't like that, she'll be forced to leave, which means, getting a job and getting back on her feet. Either way, it's for her own good.

 

I would suggest beginning with a chore chart....

[Moose]

You will split the chores with her. (Hoping you already caught on to that).

 

In addition, IF she keeps her chores up, she will have the "rights" to put together a, "Honey Do" list of things she wants to see done, either chore wise, or can even be, "Take me to dinner next payday".....

[ontheedge22]

Well, WHATEVER you do, don't tell you fiance' that at least your ex kept a better apartment......

 

Any hoot, I think you both need to re consider marriage. You're already going through the motions, (living together), and experiencing things that you don't appreciate about each other, not focusing on the relationship aspect of things, the positive things.

 

BUT, you will need to eventually put your foot down...

 

I would simply tell her that as her husband, you will expect equal duties around the house. If she doesn't like that, she'll be forced to leave, which means, getting a job and getting back on her feet. Either way, it's for her own good.

 

I would suggest beginning with a chore chart....

 

First off I want to thank you for taking to the time to read everything and responding so quickly.

 

I'm not the vindictive type so I would def never respond in a manner like that. lol.

 

When it comes to the marriage thing that has been placed on hold for now. It's quite a bit in the future so I'm hoping in time that before that date gets here I'm able to get through to here. I know that's not the most healthy way to look at it but I'm just holding on to the little hope I have left.

 

It's not as much as I'm focusing on things I dont appreciate about her as much as it is things that, to me, are blatantly gross and overlooked. I'll give a few grimly details. She has a cat that enjoys going #2 anywhere but the litter box. His favorite spots are in the dining room, in front of the front door and in front of my closet door. She told me about this when we moved in together and although I find it quite gross I do understand that sometimes pets can be just plain screwey. She told me that it wouldnt become an issue and that when it would happen she would promptly clean it up. Well fast forward to now...the poop normally takes at least 2 full days to be cleaned and that's only once ive asked her 2 or 3 times to pick it up. She then gives me the "**** you i hate you" look and gets up and cleans it. Also, with the leaving food out thing...it's gotten to the point where our apt actually has flies living and breeding in it. She leaves food out for sometimes up to 5 days. Also she refuses to turn any of the lights off. On average when I get home from work...if she is actually awake or when I wake up in the morning for work...there are at least 14 lights going in the apt (big apt). Ive asked her to make sure that all of the lights are off when she leaves the roof but when i ask her, her reponse is "why dont you turn them off yourself". While turning them off myself while Im there doesnt bother me as much, it's the fact that while I'm not there and when I'm sleeping the lights are on constantly. Now if electricity were free it would be a non issue but since I'm paying for it, I dont think Im overstepping my bounds by asking her to be considerate and turning them off to save me a little bit of money.

 

When it comes to telling her what I expect from her, Ive done that already and it hasent seemed to fase her one bit. Seemingly she doesnt care about what I expect her to provide in our relationship. About her being forced to leave, both her mother and father live in the area and would let her move back so she's not at all worried about not having somewhere for her to go if I would ask her to leave or in the worst case scenario, if I were to be laid off.

 

I suggested a chore chart this morning and she told me she isnt a slave and making a list of things for her to do would be disrecpectful.

 

Thanks Again,

Exhausted

[ontheedge22]

You will split the chores with her. (Hoping you already caught on to that).

 

In addition, IF she keeps her chores up, she will have the "rights" to put together a, "Honey Do" list of things she wants to see done, either chore wise, or can even be, "Take me to dinner next payday".....

 

You posted this while I was typing up my response to your previous post.

 

The chores are all being done by me now, except for the cooking. So I would be more than happy to allot some to her so they would be equal between up.

 

Also, I bend over backwards for her doing ANYTHING she asks me to do for her and buying her whatever she wants or needs when I have the alloted funds to do so.

[AlektraClementine]

oh you poor thing. It sounds like you're living with your teenage child rather than your fiance.

 

I have a girlfriend who's boyfriend is a lot like this. She tried the chore chart and it simply didn't work out. I suspect it's mainly because he wasn't forgetting to do his chores, he just didn't want to and a chart wasn't going to make the chores any more appealing to him.

 

I know you're looking for a solution but from what you've described (which I know is just one side of the situation), it sounds as if she is a total brat. Looking at you with disgust when you ask her to clean the cat poo 2 or 3 times???!!! Dear god.

 

Maybe since she's acting like a teenager, you should treat her like one. Tell her that you're taking away her TV privileges until she starts cleaning up after herself.

[ontheedge22]

oh you poor thing. It sounds like you're living with your teenage child rather than your fiance.

 

I have a girlfriend who's boyfriend is a lot like this. She tried the chore chart and it simply didn't work out. I suspect it's mainly because he wasn't forgetting to do his chores, he just didn't want to and a chart wasn't going to make the chores any more appealing to him.

 

I know you're looking for a solution but from what you've described (which I know is just one side of the situation), it sounds as if she is a total brat. Looking at you with disgust when you ask her to clean the cat poo 2 or 3 times???!!! Dear god.

 

Maybe since she's acting like a teenager, you should treat her like one. Tell her that you're taking away her TV privileges until she starts cleaning up after herself.

 

Yeah Ive told her before that the way she acts towards me is more like a teenager than someone who is wanting to build a stronger relationship with me.

 

As pety as it sounds Ive considered revoking her tv access. Last night I blocked her access to the internet but when it comes to the tv there is no real way to restrict her access. I have 3 tvs and only 2 have the vchip. So im sure she would just use the third. Any suggestions?

 

The more I read what I'm saying and what Ive already said the more I realize that there may actually be no way to fix this situation. Nonetheless, any other suggestions/questions/comments are very much welcome.

 

Regards,

Exhausted

[Moose]

IF I were you:

 

I would tell her she needs to go back to mom and dad's place for a while.

 

Insist on it, I know it'll be hard, (I can tell you have a huge heart).......

 

BUT, in all honesty, her parents will not put up with near as much as you do, (I don't mean that in a disrespectful way) and in all likeliness, be begging to come back with a MUCH different attitude.....

[Moose]

The reason why I know this will work, is because you've explained the first year of my marriage, (Now 21 years young) and this is how I fixed that "problem" with my newlywed....

[ontheedge22]

IF I were you:

 

I would tell her she needs to go back to mom and dad's place for a while.

 

Insist on it, I know it'll be hard, (I can tell you have a huge heart).......

 

BUT, in all honesty, her parents will not put up with near as much as you do, (I don't mean that in a disrespectful way) and in all likeliness, be begging to come back with a MUCH different attitude.....

 

I have considered that and the reason I havent had her leave yet is the fact that her parents are both the exact same way. She is a younger version of her mother so Ive thought to myself, "If i were to make her leave and she just moves back home to a place where everything she is doing now that I find gross and nasty is commonplace, wont that make her think that its not an issue at all".

[AlektraClementine]

I have considered that and the reason I havent had her leave yet is the fact that her parents are both the exact same way. She is a younger version of her mother so Ive thought to myself, "If i were to make her leave and she just moves back home to a place where everything she is doing now that I find gross and nasty is commonplace, wont that make her think that its not an issue at all".

 

 

Maybe, but it certainly won't be your issue anymore. And if there's any hope of changing her, i'm afraid that cutting her off is the only way.

[Tomcat33]

I say forget the sergeant drill and constant nagging this is not working. I also say listen to that voice that says you shouldn't break up with her, and I'll explain why:

 

You guys have hit your first real obstacle in life and this is no time to walk away on the relationship if you love each other. If this is the first time she has acted like this and been in a situation that she is digging deeper and deeper into a hole, then you need to be supportive of what she is going through, the deeper issu, not add to her stress. What I mean by that is she is unemployeed being unemployed is one of the hardest single things a human being goes through, in my experience I would almost say it is even harder than breaking up from a romantic relationship. Your fiance sounds depressed, there is a very deep seated issue going on here and no amount of nagging will take care of this.

 

I say you sit her down give her a big hug and a kiss and look her in the eyes and express your concern for her state of depression, one which she is possibly completely unaware she is experiencing. I can guarantee you that you will get a lot more leaway by reaching out to her in understanding rather than scolding her. Let her know that what she is feeling is understandable that it is not easy and make her feel like you understand her even if just a little. But also explain to her that her actions are not what you are used to from her, that she needs to help herself and together you can work on getting her out this rut but she needs to take a step foward. She will want to take a bigger look at how she is acting, and see that you are concerned for her as well as willing to help her SO LONG as she is willing to help herself and this should be enough of a kick start to get her moving in the right direction.

 

Imagine you were depressed and completely bumbed out feeling like you were wortheless and you can't seem to get a break because you were out of work, would you respond to someone who actually understands what you are feeling or would you respond to someone who actually demands more out of you when you are already feeling like you can't give any more? She is clearly depressed and her self esteem right now is completely shot, it is a viscious cycle that is hard to snap out of if you are unaware of it. That is why she needs you to let her know that you will be there for her in this time of need but that she also needs to see thing herself.

 

Depression is a silent killer one which will bring down those with the BEST of intentions. In her head she likely wants to be ok, but there is something weighing her down tremendously that is making her not care.

 

A good start to a solid marriage is to stick by each other in a time of need it's easy to abandon ship, but the true fiber of a strong relationship is how good of friends you become in terms of empathy and support in those less than ideal times.

 

Whomever said don't marry her, that is the typical quitter attitude that society has today, if you try and don't succeed then you have every right to walk away. But you never know the roles might be reversed down the road and what this woman can do for you sometime down the road in your own time of need could really impress you if you had a look into the future.

 

That is what true love is about, it's not about cleaning the house or making love, or making wedding plans, it is about forming a bond through the hardships that says "I care about you and I need you to care about you too"

[Tomcat33]

IF I were you:

 

I would tell her she needs to go back to mom and dad's place for a while.

 

Insist on it, I know it'll be hard, (I can tell you have a huge heart).......

 

BUT, in all honesty, her parents will not put up with near as much as you do, (I don't mean that in a disrespectful way) and in all likeliness, be begging to come back with a MUCH different attitude.....

 

 

What? is that what you do with your wife when she is going through hardships? pawn her off on her parents or siblings?

 

that is the weirdest advice!!!

[ontheedge22]

Sorry to hear about that.

[Moose]

What? is that what you do with your wife when she is going through hardships? pawn her off on her parents or siblings?

 

that is the weirdest advice!!!

You forgot our new born son as well.....but to answer your question......YES!

 

Anything and everything else I have tried FAILED. So I quit enabling her and went on strike myself.....I didn't divorce her for cripes sake.....but the raunchy poop filled diapers sitting on the kitchen counter for days on end never happened again....

 

I simply couldn't live that way, and I don't quite understand how anyone else could either....

[Tomcat33]

I don't know your story Moose but I appreciate where you are coming from in terms of your situation given that you are married and with a child and was this something that happend due to post partum depression, was she going through a rough patch was she always like that even before when you were dating? I dunno. Like I said I don't know your story.

 

 

In the case of the OP he has only been with his fiance for over a year and it is the first time he has encountered a real problem in the relationship one that is due to circumstance CLEARLY, she lost her job and is moping around at home all day long, I doubt she was always like this otherwise he would never have fallen in love with her or agreed to live with her.

 

So taking into account the overall bigger picture and when nagging no longer works other than to fuel more resentment between the two then try something different, is all I am recommending before you throw in the towel.

 

It sounds like she is not all there and is doing things out of depression and not a clear conscious mind.

 

I still don't believe the answer is pawning off your partner on their parents, that is not resolving the conflict that is passing the buck. May work for a person who is already married and not interested in working on a foundation but it is def not a good foundation builder for a couple that is just starting out and thinking of marrying.

They are living together, minus the papers they are acting as a married couple and they need to learn to resolve issues together in a partnership, through love and commitement and communication. Demands and complaints and disregard, which is what they are both showing each other right now, is not.

 

 

What is the point of living together otherwise, free sex every night?

[Moose]

I don't know your story Moose but I appreciate where you are coming from in terms of your situation given that you are married and with a child and was this something that happend due to post partum depression, was she going through a rough patch was she always like that even before when you were dating?

I guess it could've been post partum, but to answer your question, while we were dating, she had a steady job, and her own apartment in which she kept clean as a whistle.

 

However, after 21 years and five children later, I've found bits about her childhood and she's always been the negative of a neat freak....

 

She had to make a decision of whether or not to agree to terms with how I expect, (being head of household), things in the home I provided her with since the day we made our vows.

 

She hasn't worked a paying job since, (again 21 years), she already has a FULL time job 24/7 and she now understands this.

 

My situation isn't the same as the OP, I agree.....but like I, (and yourself) have said earlier, they are already, "living" as a couple, the OP needs to rectify this situation or re-evaluate marriage all together.

 

No demands are being made. Mutual agreements should be put into place as a starting point, or the ultimatum is that they seperate, (like Mrs. Moose and I did), and get their acts together.

 

Keep in mind, I learned ALOT of positive attributes while she was gone, and it didn't JUST involve sex.....

 

I hope that answers your question, and that we can agree to dis-agree so as not to confuse the OP any further let him make an informed decision...

[Tomcat33]

With all due respect Moose not everyone likes to define roles in the household and between their relationship as:

 

my job is go out and work and bring money home

your job is a full time maid, chef, and nanny gig at home.

 

In this day and age the roles are mixed and while I appreciate that a day at the office can be hectic and stressful and it sucks to have to get up at 6am to commute to work, the job of a person that stays home to care for 5 children and house is a non thankful one and one that one can NEVER EVER play hooky, or pass on answering the phone on. A person who sits in an office all day has options. A SAHP does not.

 

While in this case the woman does not have children to mind after she is babying a very big burden of a dependant and that is she is nursing a huge bout of depression. This needs to be tackled for any positive outcome to result. In terms of how they split up their chores and duties is STRICTLY between each couple and they both have a say in whom does what it is not a "I am man I decide your duties because I bring home money" At least I don't believe in that but then again I am not that old school when it comes to male and female roles in a partnership.

I see it as a partnership not strict a gender driven role division.

 

Hey listen when we are single we are more than willing to put in a FULL day work not matter what we do for a living, head over to the gym for a full hour or more workout, head over to meet friends after that for drinks or a movie or a date, get home late, lose sleep and then get at 6am sharp the next morning to do the entire thing again. Yet some folks feel this sense of entitlement after they marry and think that "hey I put in my full day at work now I want to go home and get served on hand and foot and I want to vege out infront of the tv or comp" WHY? why would you expect that from the stay at home person and not expect to put the same level of energy you would on the gym and going out on coming home and helping out your partner just because you put in a full 8hour day?

 

 

The answer is, convenience. We can hide behind gender roles all we want but that doesn't constitute a solid partnering that just propagates chauvanism and gender power struggle.

 

So I say let this young couple figure out a path that is good for them, not based on gender biases or social demands, simply based on what works for the two of them on on what is going to keep the union happy, ie. the sex, affection and attention and love coming because ultimately that is what we all want from a relationship.

[2sure]

Now you mentioned that these problems were already there before she lost her job, so that isnt the issue. Now she just has more time to make a mess.

 

Did your GF ever live alone in her own place, taking care of herself in between her parents home and your place together?

 

This is who she is , this is how she lives, the way she was - if not raised - then the way she was treated. You come looking for a solution. Well, I'm sure the couples therapy may have helped with communication - but it cant give her any Life skills. Which is what she lacks.

[Quest4clue]

I agree with tomcat, that she is for sure showing signs of depression.

However, you also mention your gf is in bed most of the day?

 

Regardless if there is any depression or not, that is pure laziness.

 

If one is depressed, a certain amount of excess sleep might be acceptable, but sleeping all to most of the day, really is not.

 

I might question how much is depression and how much is laziness.

 

Tomcat is right though that they should work through this with open communication rather than "pass the buck". That never solves anything.

 

I say, give it a good chance, try to work the issues out. If your gf makes no attempt to try to change or seek help for her depression, maybe it is time to consider ending the relationship.

 

Don't marry someone in hopes they will eventually change. That does not happen, and is setting yourself up for disaster. If you can't honestly live with your gf's ways after giving it some time to clear up these issues, that should be your red flag it is time to move on.

 

Good luck.

[carhill]

Disaster. Good word.

 

OP, you say you aren't vindictive. That's good. What also is good is having firm personal boundaries. Assert those boundaries and what is the worst that will happen? She's already mad at you, right? At least she doesn't own half your property

 

You sound like a very supportive guy. I'm a lot like you. Some call me a doormat. Or, I should say, used to. MC fixed that. I'm now supportive but with defined and communicated boundaries. I'm no longer an enabler. I wish that for you