whichwayisup Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 Did the OW's husband know about the affair? IF not, he needs to know so there's less chances of the A starting up again. Anyway, it takes a special person to take back a cheating spouse - Take it one day at a time.. Do a site search on username Thumbingmyway. Hopefully his threads will help you gain insight of what to expect and how to stay strong.
Author itspersonal Posted December 17, 2008 Author Posted December 17, 2008 You know ,,,I think he was at the point of divorce he said he was so unhappy until he realized what he had to lose. I don't know if he is trying to get me out but when I suggested he move out and we date or ? he was so opposed to leaving! I don't think he wants out,,,I think he wants to have excitement in his dull and workaholic life. Hence, back home to Cali to have fun in the sun. I don't understand why he gets a MLC and I am suffering for it! It makes me very angry! I am working on strength and seeing this outside of the grief of him even being able to do this to us. He has always been such a great man and husband... I say WTF too! I am never going to be sure if he isn't doing her again,,,like I said about an alcoholic ,,,if he wants it,,,he will do it and I cannot live in fear and searching and trying to control it. If I cannot gain trust at some point then I will have to move on with my life. He has to make a decision to do what is right,,,I cannot make him do that by following him or checking on him or trying to force it,,,it will be no matter how hard I try,,,that is true powerlessness. So the question for me is;;;can I live with the truth that I may never know or that he may not be honest as he wasn't before or do I trust that as I need to know,,,it will be revealed? It is a hard one! Thanks again to you all for posting,,,it is helping me so much and I acutally feel stronger with every post because I am not alone any longer and I have food for thought where as before I felt alone and unsure about everything.
Author itspersonal Posted December 17, 2008 Author Posted December 17, 2008 I really feel like I cannot tell the other spouse because my husband is her boss and that could cause us financial hardship in a big way in this ecomony but also because I couldn't cause another person that kind of pain. She has done this to so many others it is crazy. I hate that he didn't use protection and I am going to send him and myself to the Dr after xmas to be sure we are ok. What a fool!!!!! Also, i don't feel it matters if he knows or not,,,if hubby is going to do it,,,he will figure it out one way or the other,,,maybe I am minimizing her importance but I will never know,,,I think it was the excitement of the build up,,,not her! Otherwise he would not have called it off like he did,,,and because of some other things that I explained earlier! Thank you again all of you,,,you are saving my life right now!
Athena Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 Do you think he may have gone off sex with you because of Guilt catching up with him after the first three weeks of feeling good because he ended the A which was wrong, and now he feels bad? One thing isn't clear about your posts -- he says the two of you went 'for months' at a time with no sex prior to the A. Is this true? Or was he exaggerating or lying? I mean, if the pattern was sex every several weeks, then perhaps he has now gone back to that after the excitement of the make up sex.
whichwayisup Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 GET tested asap! And if you and your H do have sex, please use a condom.. Your H hasn't really taken full ownership of his choices. Sure, MLC is one thing, but the way he's gone about this, how he's treated you and put alot of the blame on you is just plain wrong. This isn't your fault. HE is broken inside, not the marriage. Suggest that maybe he go skydiving or bungee jumping if he wants a rush! I do think you're right, this isn't about her, it's about that feeling he got while in the A. The taboo of it all, sneaking around, the rollercoaster ride..He got addicted to those feelings and now it's gone, he's reacting and acting out. Let's put it this way, if you find out that something else has happened between them, then think about telling her husband. She's an adult and there are consquences to one's choices! This woman KNOWS she's playing with fire by having an A with her boss, let alone her MARRIED boss. She isn't stupid, so don't go feeling too sorry for her.
whichwayisup Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 Just thought of this, is it possible that he's hiding the fact he has an STD and that's why he isn't into having sex? Again, please go get tested asap. Call tomorrow and book an appointment..
Author itspersonal Posted December 17, 2008 Author Posted December 17, 2008 Rarely did we go that long without sex,,,he is exaggerating,,every other week was the norm most of our marriage.... I will go to the dr. ASAP,,scary for me! We have already had sex the first 3 weeks after finding out,,,every day then wham he stopped,,,,make up sex is what someone said I would absolutely tell her husband if I find out it is going on again! trust me! That will be the straw! I agree he is blaming his unhappiness on the marriage but the affair he seems to be taking responsibility for and has told the counselor the affair was just an act,,meant nothing to him even tho he realizes it does to me but the reason he did it is what he wants to get too because he never wants a repeat ever,,he wants to know why and how it got there to begin with! So we will see! Thank you again
BentSpine Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 He says that if I had an affair one he wouldn't forgive me and two he would kill the guy with a bat!So he would kill the guy with a bat, eh? After that comment I would hold him in higher esteem if he robbed a bank. Now I do hope you will cheat on him so that he is tought the lesson that he isn't rewarded a payoff for threatening other people.
65tr6 Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 OP, i think you are still in a state of shock. Breath. Take it easy. I know it is easier said than done. You need to start thinking clearly and dont make any major decisions at this point. 1) first of all, your husband had sex with OM. Obviously there was emotional component to it prior to that. So I dont believe that it meant nothing to him 2) you and your husband MUST get tested for STDs 3) i dont believe that affair ended. Alteast looks like you are not sure. If so, then CALL OW's husband. I know it puts you folks in financial jeopardy. What is more important to you. Plus you are helping other family from being torn apart further by this sleazy affair. You are fooling yourself if you think this is not already caused the pain to the other family. Just because the truth hasnt come out does not mean someone is not hurting. You will do her husband a big favor by letting him know the truth. 4) you can also call the company's HR and report both of them. That will almost guarantee that the affair is going to die for good. 5) looks like you really want to work through this and I can appreciate that. (going through it myself). Then dont give up.
2sure Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 You sound like your head is in the right place - it took me much longer to come to some of the realizations that you already have. More than anything else, reading and posting here, has helped me. Through here and through my own marriages journey to recoveryI have learned so much. With that in mind: I knew my husbands infidelity was not caused by a problem with me or the marriage. (Marriage was brand spanking new). I knew the issue was his alone, compulsive, etc. So, I became the marriage police. I didnt want the job, its against my nature - but I did it because he could not ID his problem and I wanted to save the Marriage. Being the Marriage Police left me not wondering anything, left him knowing he couldnt get away with anything, while we increased communication. It was a safety net and a window of opportunity. It has been many months since I "checked up" on him. But I still am dealing with issues. (been 1.5 years since last D-Day) Posters here are correct and you should take their advice!!! Every person knows that their marriage and situation is unique...but should also be aware that infidelity , regardless of "reason" has PATTERNS THAT REMAIN THE SAME. You need to make sure the A is not continuing in any way (even phone calls). You need to expose the affair as much as you can - at least to the OW husband. If this cannot be done (for JOB reasons) then you need to tell her that if you so much as THINK there has been contact - you will reveal all to her H. (This worked for me). She will be afraid to look at your H or take his calls. Get tested for STDs...they DO happen, all the time. None of these things will fix your husband or marriage. But these are the first steps - to know exactly what you are dealing with.
taylor Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 I can't believe this thread has gotten this far with no poster offering this advice: Tell your husband....NO, INSIST, your husband quit his job immediately. That is the advice you hear over and over again on this forum, yet no one has said it yet. I have not always agreed with this advice because many of the WS insist they can't stop working with their OW/OM because losing their jobs would create too much of a financial hardship. These WS are often reprimanded by posters who claim WS are just making excuses to stay in contact with their OW/OM and don't really have a genuine interest in ending their affairs or repairing their marriages. Other posters accuse WS of putting money as a priority over their marriages. But in this case, I think it is imperative your husband quit his job immediately. Why? 1. It puts an end to the affair..NC with the OW. Until this happens, your marriage will have no chance of recovering. If your husband continues to be her boss, he will continue to have daily contact with the OW...the temptation will still be there. Don't believe for one minute there was not an emotional connection with this woman..that she didn't mean something to him. This was not a one night stand. "Things" built up between them for months. And you did say there was a lack of connection in your marriage...something he may have looked for and found with this OW. 2. Your husband is her superior. If and when this affair is exposed at work, he will be fired for having sex with a subordinate. The OW sounds a bit angry at him for not wanting to have anything to do with her now. Could be the beginning of a sexual harrassment case. The less attention he pays her, the more tempted she may get to file one. Don't bank on this affair staying under cover. You said she already had a few other affairs. Apparently they didn't stay under wraps. Your husband's affair with her won't either. Everyone will know...eventually. If you want to speed up the process of "letting the cat out of the bag" tell her husband. His first move will be to the HR department to file a complaint against his wife's boss. So, given the above scenario, I'd say your husband should remove himself from that environment as soon as possible before things escalate further. I get the feeling the little spark he had with this OW at work is going to turn into a blazing fire and you know what happens when someone plays with fire.
taylor Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 You know ,,,I think he was at the point of divorce he said he was so unhappy This statement so contradicts your first post in which you said you THOUGHT your marriage was a happy one...thought the connection and love was there. This contradiction demonstates clearly a lack of communication between you and your husband regarding the state of your marriage. It's this breakdown in communication that is at the heart of so many affairs. And it is also what makes the BS like you so frustrated...asking yourself, "Why didn't he just come to me if he was so unhappy. I didn't know." Itspersonal, I truly do feel for you and I empathize with the pain that you are in because of your husband's irresponsible behavior. He should have communicated his unhappiness to you and sought constructive ways to alleviate his unhappiness. But, you know, I will venture to say your husband's affair truly has little to do with you or your marriage. It's not you. It's not your marriage. It's him. He is a very confused person right now, acting out in ways typical of a person going through a mid-life crisis. He is unhappy as a person. He is not unhappy with the marriage per se. But an unhappy person, a person discontent with himself, will blame everything and everyone around him...including his marriage...for his unhappiness...when all the while the source of his unhappiness lies within himself. Does this make sense? Have your read up on what a person goes through when in the midst of a mid-life crisis? It's not all fun and games. These people are in emotional pain. They are in turmoil, twisted and confused. They are afraid. They don't like who they are or what they have become. They are burdened with internal demons. They desparately search for answers outside themselves and eventually come to realize the answers...the acceptance of who they are...and the inner peace and satisfaction that comes with that acceptance...lies within themselves. I am glad you and your husband are in MC to deal with the affair. But, if I may ask, is your husband also in individual counseling to deal with the MLC?
65tr6 Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 But, you know, I will venture to say your husband's affair truly has little to do with you or your marriage. It's not you. It's not your marriage. It's him. He is a very confused person right now, acting out in ways typical of a person going through a mid-life crisis. He is unhappy as a person. He is not unhappy with the marriage per se. But an unhappy person, a person discontent with himself, will blame everything and everyone around him...including his marriage...for his unhappiness...when all the while the source of his unhappiness lies within himself. Does this make sense? It does to me !! I think for my xWW too. Nicely said. OP, you should make your husband realise this and get some help. Taylor, i dont think her husband quitting is not a feasible option here from what OP makes it appear. I fully concur with you though.
taylor Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 I wanted to respond specifically to the issue you and your husband are facing regarding your need for intimacy and his inability to provide it right now...as my husband and I have been struggling with this for some time now, as well. First, let me say that it does get better over time. But in the beginning, while in the post-affair withdrawal period, it can be extremely frustrating. My husband wanted to make love all the time. He wanted to kiss and bear hug all day long. He, like you, wanted that reassurance that I still loved him and desired him. It comforted him and calmed his insecurities and fears. When I couldn't respond to him..either out of guilt or lack of desire..it compounded his insecurities, his fears, and the pain of rejection. What worked for us during this time was this: Distance yourself from him physically...sexually. Don't cling. Don't be physically available. Limit physical affection...hugging, kissing, etc. Also limit the "I love you's" and the "I need you's." You are trying to give him something he can't accept right now. And he is feeling pressure to give something to you that he just doesn't feel right now. He is feeling pressure and guilt. This dashes any chance of him feeling any sense of desire for you. Therefore he rejects. Instead, try this: 1. Make yourself as desireable as possible...for YOU, not him. Get a makeover. Pamper yourself at a spa. Spruce up your wardrobe with the latest fashions and throw out the old duds. Start wearing a new perfume or lotion. Do this for yourself. Not for him. It will make you feel better about you and will make him take notice of the new you. BUT, REMEMBER, you are doing this for you, not for him. 2. Get busy doing things that you enjoy doing. Especially find time to do things with friends. Go to dinner with them. Burn your cell phone up chatting and laughing with friends and family.Put on that sexy exercise outfit and hit the gym. Find passion in your personal hobbies and interests. These things will make you feel good about yourself...and it will take pressure off of him if he sees you as an active, independent woman. 3. Continue to do little things to meet his needs...loving things. Fix him a nice dinner, bake a batch of his favorite cookies, complement him, converse with him, tease him....but don't offer sex. Concentrate on creating an emotional connection with him. Do some fun things together...new things you have never done before...active, exciting things..new adventures. Break routines. Do things you wouldn't normally do. 4. Don't focus on the physical connection. Don't ask for sex. Don't initiate sex. He needs to be the one coming to you!!! The goal is to recreate desire in him. If you distance yourself physically and he likes what he sees at a distance, he will come to you with desire. I will probably get bashed for this advice but I don't care. This is what worked for my husband and I. My desire for him did not start to return until he backed away from me physically...till the pressure was off...till I had a chance to take a breather...and till I had a chance to create desire inside myself for him. And that desire did not start to return until the emotional connection returned and had a chance to grow. I wish you well. Hang in there.
RobertLS Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 I have so much gratitude that you wrote to me and please write again,,,it puts things in such a different light and it allows me to share what I feel inside without stomping on him and with someone who feels a lot like he does,,,, The more I read your posts, the more pain I feel, and I'm sorry you're having to go through this, ... and at Christmas-time, no less! Last night, I thought some more about your situation, and I have a few thoughts. Where I get stuck on the emotional part is that having an affair was sex for sex,,,,,or maybe I am wrong but that is how he explained it. He said exactly what you said it made him feel young, excited, all of those things but he didn't really care about her. This part sounds different than it was for me. My affair was all about the emotional connection. I didn’t have that with my wife pre-affair, and the affair showed me it’s a need I have, and an important one. If your husband felt that the affair was just about the sex and that he didn’t really care about the OW, then I think it’ll be easier for him to recover from it. Of course, it may be that he really DOES care for her, but doesn’t want to hurt you by admitting it. One of the most difficult aspects for recovery in my case is the conflict I feel between wanting to be completely honest with my wife about everything and not wanting to hurt her. As details of my affair came out, I could see how deeply hurt she was, and I have a hard time with that. If your husband cares about you, he may have the same difficulty with opening up all of his thoughts and feelings. It is really hard to think that the excitement of her was more then what I give him in bed! I guess it is true that new is exciting but I am pretty open sexually so I find it humilating confusing but I see exactly what you are saying. My wife had the same difficulty. It *IS* hard/confusing/humiliating to think that your husband could be more attracted to someone else. Something for you to think about, that my wife and I only recently figured out. After the initial shock of learning of the affair, my wife subconsciously felt competition from the OW and wanted to make herself more attractive to me. She started exercising, lost weight, changed her demeanor at home, a lot of things that she knew I wanted. But since I was in withdrawal from the affair, her actions didn’t register. I noticed them, but they didn’t help. So if you’re trying to make changes to win your husband back, don’t be surprised or frustrated if he doesn’t respond. The problem is him, not you. Why did he feel a connection with another woman is the most painful part for me. I thought we were connected. I thought we kept it exciting and new. If he felt that connnection why not leave and be with her? I don't know how we lost our connection is what I am trying to say and it is hard to hear but so very appreciated. I know, ... that part really hurts. And it’s actually good for me to hear this from you because it makes me more remorseful for what I did to MY wife. The reason your husband didn’t leave to be with the OW is because he still cared about you. He had familial ties with you and excitement with the OW, and he was torn between the two. If your husband is like me, you probably lost your connection because he’s not a good communicator. I wasn’t good at telling my wife how I felt about our marriage as it was deteriorating. We both now recognize that communication is vital, and it was the lack of it that led to the decay of our marriage. Since the affair, we’ve gotten much, much better at communicating. If that’s one of your problems, hopefully the counseling will help. I know what it is like to want that feeling though but I made choices to not harm my marriage to get it! He misses that one. Anyone wants to feel those feelings but we control our "desires" to not damage our lives and our families,,,if I had an affair he would be out the door. I feel like he got all the excitement and I get all the pain,,,that is hard to swallow,,,,and now I get no sex and to boot! The fact that you made good choices and he didn’t shows that you are more committed to your marriage. My wife has said the very same thing as you about wanting to feel those exciting passionate feelings but having the self-control to protect her marriage. The fact that she had the self-control and I didn’t is difficult for me to live with. I’ve lost confidence in myself, and I’m not sure that I’ve forgiven myself for what I did. My wife has, but I don’t think I have. The affair has shown me that I’m a more imperfect person than I thought I was, and I feel that because I betrayed my wife, she deserves better than me. That she still wants me is not easy to understand. It’s hard to see that we’ll be able to completely restore our relationship; I think I’ll always feel like I owe her something for what I did. This feeling is making our recovery difficult, and you may have to face the same thing. I am showing him love by healing something he chose to do that has damaged me immensely so I feel like he can give a little too..,do you think that is wrong? No, it’s not wrong, it’s completely understandable. Your counselor saying that your husband is on the fence about you sounds right. He probably doesn’t know whether the work it’ll take to recover your marriage will be worth it. If he had a crystal ball and could see that all the work would indeed completely recover your marriage, he’d be willing to roll up his sleeves and do the work. But he doesn’t know that. He has doubts, wondering if you’ll both go through a lot of work and end up back where you were before the affair happened. I’m that way too, and it has held me back and I feel that my wife is more committed to doing the work than I am. It seems bass ackwards, doesn’t it? *SHE* should be the one sitting on the fence deciding whether or not she wants me, and I should be the one wanting to do all the work to make things up to her. It doesn’t make sense. I also think sometimes I should just leave him and do him the favor of figuring out if he wants me or not and also deciding if he needs all that excitement to feel alive...I don't know what the heck is the right thing but I don't want to be second choice or the fool any longer,,,,make sense? You know, that might not be a bad idea. If you just left him, or asked him to leave, it might shock him back to his senses, he’d realize how much you mean to him, and he’d get off the fence and start earnestly working on recovering your marriage. Might want to run that by your counselor though. --------------- A couple other thoughts. Taylor’s posts ring so true to the situation my wife and I are in. They’re definitely worth reading again and should help to understand what your husband may be feeling. They also provide hope that restoration is possible, even though it’ll likely take a lot of time and patience. Some have recommended books and website resources for you. There’s one that doesn’t get mentioned on this forum much at all, but my wife and I have found it to be one of the best. Peggy Vaughan’s book, “The Monogamy Myth” is excellent. Her husband had affairs with 15 women over a 7-year period, and she recovered from that (hard to believe, isn’t it?), and has been married for 40+ years. Her website is http://www.dearpeggy.com. She does phone consultations, which I utilized, and she is very knowledgeable and helpful. You sound like quite an admirable woman, one whom many men would be lucky to be with. Hopefully your husband will see that and respond. What you’re going through is very tough on your self-esteem. You need to realize, MUST realize, that there’s not much you can do to change your husband. Don’t beat yourself up over what you should be doing to make your husband respond. I think the best you can do is to work on yourself, make yourself happy with yourself, and hope that your husband does the same for himself. If you have more questions that could help you understand things from your husband’s perspective, I’m happy to help. I’m not on this forum continuously though, only about once a day.
RobertLS Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 just curious. Why do you think things are far from ideal for you even after six months ? Sex still no good ? We've made a lot of progress in understanding the why's of the affair, but not much in actually making our relationship better. Either we haven't found the right counselor (tried 4 so far), haven't given it enough time, or maybe the marriage is simply broken beyond repair. The sex is still no good.
RobertLS Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 I believe he may have some sexual addictions but I am not sure..I do know he has always been shut down somewhat but we seemed happy! I meant to ask you about this. Why do you think he may have addictions? From my experience, women's intuition is uncannily accurate, and you're probably right. Have you brought this up in counseling?
taylor Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 My affair was all about the emotional connection. I didn’t have that with my wife pre-affair, and the affair showed me it’s a need I have, and an important one. My affair was all about the emotional connection as well. But I can't deny there was a strong sexual attraction, too. Perhaps some can separate the two but I think it would be hard not to have elements of both in an affair that lasts for months. If your husband cares about you, he may have the same difficulty with opening up all of his thoughts and feelings. I am sure the guilt and self-loathing are eating him up inside. And I am sure the pain he sees in your eyes with every detail he reveals to you is driving a sword in his heart. And this is how he should feel. But let me add that it is important to the recovery of your marriage that you have all of the details you ask for from him regarding the affair, his thoughts, his feelings. He needs to be as honest and transparent to you as he possibly can. He owes you this. My husband wanted alot of details. The MC couldn't believe he wanted to "torture" himself this way. He said he "needed" the details. It made him feel horrible hearing the truth, but the truth is what he needed to deal with it. My wife had the same difficulty. It *IS* hard/confusing/humiliating to think that your husband could be more attracted to someone else. Something for you to think about, that my wife and I only recently figured out. After the initial shock of learning of the affair, my wife subconsciously felt competition from the OW and wanted to make herself more attractive to me. She started exercising, lost weight, changed her demeanor at home, a lot of things that she knew I wanted. But since I was in withdrawal from the affair, her actions didn’t register. I noticed them, but they didn’t help. So if you’re trying to make changes to win your husband back, don’t be surprised or frustrated if he doesn’t respond. The problem is him, not you. It is true. Doing all of these things will get you nowhere while your husband is in the throes of withdrawal. He won't "see" you because he can't "see" passed the OW. It's like any other break-up. You can't jump into a new relationship while you are grieving the loss of one that just ended. A new BF/GF can't possibly measure up to the one you are trying to let go of. It takes time. But, if you do these things now, and you do them for yourself, not for him or to win him back, they will go a long way to make you feel better about yourself. Doing these things will give you some of your self-esteem back. Your husband is not available right now to give you that much-needed boost of self-confidence....that feeling of desireability...that you long for right now. You have to find it within yourself...at least for right now. As his feelings for the OW dissipate, you will turn his head again, and he will be able to see your beauty again, inside and out. Patience. I know, ... that part really hurts. And it’s actually good for me to hear this from you because it makes me more remorseful for what I did to MY wife. The reason your husband didn’t leave to be with the OW is because he still cared about you. He had familial ties with you and excitement with the OW, and he was torn between the two. If your husband is like me, you probably lost your connection because he’s not a good communicator. I wasn’t good at telling my wife how I felt about our marriage as it was deteriorating. We both now recognize that communication is vital, and it was the lack of it that led to the decay of our marriage. Since the affair, we’ve gotten much, much better at communicating. If that’s one of your problems, hopefully the counseling will help. Well said. The fact that she had the self-control and I didn’t is difficult for me to live with. I’ve lost confidence in myself, and I’m not sure that I’ve forgiven myself for what I did. My wife has, but I don’t think I have. The affair has shown me that I’m a more imperfect person than I thought I was, and I feel that because I betrayed my wife, she deserves better than me. That she still wants me is not easy to understand. It’s hard to see that we’ll be able to completely restore our relationship; I think I’ll always feel like I owe her something for what I did. This feeling is making our recovery difficult, and you may have to face the same thing. This has also been a hinderance in our marriage recovery. For months I have struggled with anger, depression and a relentless self-loathing...all aimed at myself and my actions. I don't think there is a day that goes by that I don't tell my husband that I don't deserve him..don't want him to love me because I am not worth loving anymore...that he deserves better...that if I were him I would want to be with anyone but me. This frustrates my husband because it's hard to love someone who doesn't love themself or doesn't feel they deserve to be loved any more. I feel that my wife is more committed to doing the work than I am. It seems bass ackwards, doesn’t it? *SHE* should be the one sitting on the fence deciding whether or not she wants me, and I should be the one wanting to do all the work to make things up to her. It doesn’t make sense. No, it doesn't make sense, but my husband and I are experiencing this same dynamic. The MC says it's because emotionally the WS doesn't have 100 percent to give since our hearts have been divided. We have only ourselves to blame for this. We are at the mercy of our BS to accept this, at least for a short while, until we can oust the affair partner from our hearts, and restore our hearts with love and 100 percent commitment to our marital partners. It's an extremely unfair and hurtful position for BS to be in. My greatest fear was that my husband's patience would run out before I could get my heart untangled. There were moments he was on the verge of walking out or kicking me out. I don't know what stopped it. Committment, perhaps. If you just left him, or asked him to leave, it might shock him back to his senses, he’d realize how much you mean to him, and he’d get off the fence and start earnestly working on recovering your marriage. Might want to run that by your counselor though. Some on this forum would say this counters any hope of reconciliation..that separation can't possibly bring two people together. But I can see where there can be some merit to this, especially in cases where a marital partner feels "trapped" or has severely taken their spouse for granted. In the OP's case, she may very well want to let him go to surf the waves in California. Maybe after he finds himself, she won't want him back.
65tr6 Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 My affair was all about the emotional connection as well. But I can't deny there was a strong sexual attraction, too. Perhaps some can separate the two but I think it would be hard not to have elements of both in an affair that lasts for months. . I have a slightly different perspective on this. I think women, in general, no doubt start with an emotional connection first, tend to downplay the sex part even though they admit it was much better. They ofcourse justify that with emotional connection that preceded the physical part. My husband wanted alot of details. The MC couldn't believe he wanted to "torture" himself this way. He said he "needed" the details. It made him feel horrible hearing the truth, but the truth is what he needed to deal with it. . I wanted it too because it kept bringing things that she did not "confess". For example the fact that she invited OM to our home when i out of town. It hurt me like hell. What kind of person does that ? But then now, i am thinking may be there is no such a thing as a bad affair or an ugly affair. They all are equally devastating. In any case, I wanted the details out. For months I have struggled with anger, depression and a relentless self-loathing...all aimed at myself and my actions. I don't think there is a day that goes by that I don't tell my husband that I don't deserve him..don't want him to love me because I am not worth loving anymore...that he deserves better...that if I were him I would want to be with anyone but me. This frustrates my husband because it's hard to love someone who doesn't love themself or doesn't feel they deserve to be loved any more. . this is wife's quote line by line. How the hell do i deal with this ? I told her not to say that again and let ME decide what i deserve. I know i cannot do much to control her and stop the way she is feeling. My greatest fear was that my husband's patience would run out before I could get my heart untangled. There were moments he was on the verge of walking out or kicking me out. I don't know what stopped it. Committment, perhaps. . I feel that way at times. But here is something that keeps me positive... 1) The more you communicate with you spouse the better. It could be about anything. In fact the less you talk about the relationship the better. No overt romantic moves. I learnt my mistake. I left a bouquet of flowers, with candles next to them as a surprise. She loved it and but then also admitted it overwhelmed her because she felt even more sad. 2) If you both are honest then you know, however painful it could be, that there is no deceit or dishonesty anymore and you are making an effort to address issues that led to bad marriage prior to the affair 3) Working on individual self rather than your relationship first. Like taylor said, do something that makes you feel better, for you and not for your spouse taylor, i did go through your posts but i didnt see the most recent update, how are things now for you ? The similarity between your case and my wife's is remarkable. I am trying to learn from WS as much as i can
RobertLS Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 ItsPersonal, just wanted to chime in once more regarding the issue of knowing details. Taylor's husband and 65tr6 both seemed to want a lot of details. I've heard that men generally want to know more about their wife's affairs than the other way around. I agree with taylor that your husband needs to tell you as much as you want, but be careful. Our first MC told us about another couple she had been seeing for about a year. In the beginning, the husband wanted to know everything about his wife's affair. A year later, he dearly wishes he had not asked all the questions he did because he now has to live with vivid images of his wife's affair. Even though he forgave her, he has trouble getting rid of the images. Our MC recommended that before my wife ask about something, she should ask herself why she needs to know. If she really needs to know in order to heal, then ask. If not, it might be better to try and forget the question. Everybody's different, but just be careful. Haven't heard from you today. Hope things are as "OK" as they can be with you.
lost4ever Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 Hey, Don't want to snatch the OP's Post...but my opinion don't tell all the details I did....and the only reason my husband wanted them was so he could throw everything in my face, soon started the, well you never did that until the affair...blah blah blah,
Author itspersonal Posted December 18, 2008 Author Posted December 18, 2008 Thank you one and all for all your wonderful insight! Today is a terrible day! I went to the dr. so humilating to get all the std tests done. I will know on Friday! I then came home so angry and called my hubby and got so mad at him. He is traveling on business which he does weekly. I told him "why am I working to make this marriage better when he is doing nothing,,why do I have to be so humilated and so on." He preceded to mention that he was sorry for my day and what he did but that yesterday I loved him and wanted to make it work and today he is a Coc*sucke*. I just went on and on and pushed him even further away! I feel like there are miles between us really and I don't know how to change that! I never have felt this way with him not from the moment we met! I feel in love quickly and from there it was all about the relationship. I realize now that i feel like I failed in what i worked so hard at doing,,,making a happy home! I have a terrible feeling that he is going to leave after the holidays as he has said over and over that he will not deal with anger. What control. I feel angry and so deeply hurt! I am not good at hiding my feelings and the problem is the pendulum is swinging one way or the other and no middle ground,,,I hate you, I love you etc. I am making us both crazy. I am in fight or flight right now and feel like I should just run out the door to avoid this dark hole we are in. I am so scared but so angry too. The fear doesn't come from him leaving,,,as much as it comes from him not loving me,,,,I feel the empty I love you's and when I ask do you really he gets annoyed and says stop questioning every thing I say. Oh my goodness,,,how dare he,,,,I would think he would be doing what he promised 3 weeks ago to suck me back in and do everything in his power to make this right,,,he said well I am going to counseling to to that and that isn't good enough,,,,I just don't know which end is up. Who is this man, where am I and what world did they drop me in? This man who adored me for so long doesn't even want to tell me he loves me. I think I have already lost him and I feel like he has lost me. I don't know what truth is anymore,,,,does he care about her, does he not, but if my instincts are right i would say yes he does. He has ruined us,,,,dear god,,,I know I have a part in the breakdown of the marriage,,,like not knowing he was unhappy,,,he isn't a communicator either and I am so it has been hard. He just shuts down. Will I live through the loss of my marriage and be a better person for it? Will I be able to accept it is over even though he is trying,,my instincts say it is over,,we are just hanging on for some unknown reason! The damage is too great! I am not that patient,,,I really am not,,,I want to know if he loves me and I want to know that he is fully committed.,,I cannot live with him wanting or wishing for someone else so how do I know he isn't doing that? I think he is! I told him,,,I am not your enemy,,,he didn't know what to say! Why does he all of a sudden hate me,,,??? I told him that I never tried to hurt him and his response was,,,neither did he! I feel like I am in a dream! Will I ever come out? I wish someone could tell me what to do, who I am and who he is and what we are,,,, Thanks again
65tr6 Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 "why am I working to make this marriage better when he is doing nothing,,why do I have to be so humilated and so on." He preceded to mention that he was sorry for my day and what he did but that yesterday OP, sorry. I know exactly what you are going through. I went throught it myself not long ago. Question is, are you strong enough and determined enough to come out of this ? I mean dont take the easy way out. Dont make any major decisions. I suggest hang around here. Read the responses on this thread..esp from taylor, robert and others. There is some great advice here. As much difficult it is to follow some of this, it is actually working for me ! So there is hope. It is a very slow and painful process. Remember, at this point, he is incapable of giving but can accept. (I know it hurts me to say that as i am typing this - how in the world people can be so selfish).
65tr6 Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 Hey, Don't want to snatch the OP's Post...but my opinion don't tell all the details I did....and the only reason my husband wanted them was so he could throw everything in my face, soon started the, well you never did that until the affair...blah blah blah, So the WS gets to decide what to tell and what not to tell ? Let's see, the one who betrayed and destroyed family ? Sorry. I beg to differ. She can ask anything she wants. Her husband, if he is smart enough, can tell in a manner that could be "comforting". For example : BS : Was sex better with her ? WS : Yes. That was because there was emotional connection involved
taylor Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 Itspersonal, I cried reading your post. Your emotions are so raw and painful. They truly depict the magnitude of how a betrayal can shake the very core of a person's being. What you and your husband are experiencing now is the immediate fallout from the affair. I call it fallout because it feels like the after effects of a nuclear explosion. Utter devastation. Shock. Like you are sitting in the midst of ashes and rubble...everything you know, everything your are familiar with...the cornerstone of your life..totally destroyed..wiped out...gone. You will grieve the loss of your marriage as it was because it will never be the same again. You will begin the painful task of sorting through the rubble, determining what is salvagable, and putting the pieces back together again. You will take one step forward and two steps back. You will forge ahead with determination, then crumble under the weight convinced you don't have the strength to bear this heavy toll; and then you will pick yourself back up and move on again. You are on an emotional rollercoaster ride from hell. You won't have the luxury to get off at the next stop. The ride will last a long time. A wise poster on LS commonly refers to marital recovery as a marathon, not a sprint. The road is long and the changes are so subtle that you may not "see" them for months and not until you have the ability to look back at where you were and use that as a reference point regarding the progress that you have made. Itspersonal, take comfort in knowing that you are not alone. All of the emotions you are having right now are normal. Also take comfort in knowing that you will not feel like this forever. You are in the worst of it right now...the eye of the storm. Calmer waters do lie ahead but there will be alot of navigating on some awful rocky water before you reach that point. Please keep posting. Vent, vent, vent. I also found it immensely helpful to keep a journal. Getting it all out on paper serves two purposes. It's an immediate emotional release and later it gives you something you can go back to again and again to reflect on, helping you to gain insight and perspective. Don't miss a single MC or IC appointment. Sometimes you may wonder how much good a single session is doing, but cumulatively, it works. You may want to consider medication for depression or anxiety, even in the short run. It can help you cope, function, think straight. You have been through a very traumatic life experience that has severely affected your emotional well-being and can easily affect your physical well-being. At the very least, a consult with your family doctor can help. Read! Spend some time educating yourself about MLC, emotional affairs, and marital recovery. Some excellent books have been mentioned on this thread already, especially "Surviving an Affair" and "Not Just Friends." You can google a host of other books that will give you some understanding of what you and your husband are going through. It is so difficult dealing with the complexities of an affair, knowing there aren't many people you can turn to for support. It's not like cancer, where people rally around with overwhelming help and assistance. Often, you suffer alone as a couple trying to deal with an affair in solitude. One other recommendation. My husband and I went through a marriage recovery program called Retrouvaille. You can google that too. It's for couples on the brink of divorce. The goal here is to save the marriage and the focus is on learning to communicate innermost feelings/reestablishing that emotional connection. You may want to look into it. At the very least, the program helps to calm your fears, makes you feel like you aren't going crazy, that there are many, many others dealing with the same issues, feelings and emotions. Hang in there. You will survive this.
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