Wife wants me to end friendship with co-worker

[angie2443]

I might be beating a dead horse for you may be absolutely right. I was more alluding to one on one time between Jill and Sue. Maybe suggest that they go out for coffee, the movies, girls night out, and ect... together. This way Sue can get to know Jill for who she really is and at the same time allay her fears of her husband sneaking off with her because she's always in Sue's company. If in fact the OP is genuine in his assertion that all that he strives for is a platonic frendship with Jill then he shouldn't show any jealosy of the time his wife spends with her or in what they do or discuss in his absence.

 

If Sue's intuition is founded in her close observations of Jill then at least she can point to specific issues creating her consternation as opposed to saying "I don't like her because she seems to get along too well with my husband"! Furthermore, I think the OP is making this an issue because of the fact that he goes out of his way to be enthusiastic about Jill while showing his own wife Sue a more hum drum attitude which has created the illusion that something is there in his platonic relationship when it's not!

 

Actually, I think Sue is the name given to the other female friend that the wife didn't have a problem with. I'd have to read the original post again to be sure. Anyways, I think this would still be extremely unconfortable for the wife. It's her choice. I hope she doesn't feel pressured into something she is not confortable with just to keep from rocking the boat. Been there, done that and it does no one any good in the end. Anyway, it is her choice.

 

On a side note, I now hate the word "platonic". A friendship does not have to have romance or sex in it to harm a marriage. If the friend is put above the spouse, for instance, or is given information that should be kept between the spouses, then the trust and intimancy in the marriage/long term relationship are going to be damaged. It's not all about sex. I wish more people would understand this.

[travelgirl]

It is possible he thought you were OVER compensating, trying too hard to show that you and Jill are "just" friends. Maybe he had the same gut reaction your wife has had. Maybe he has concerns too.

 

Anyway the idea of getting together and discussing you and Jill being friends as a group is bloody ridiculous! Sorry, but when friends get together, the focus is more than likely having fun and getting to know eachother, NOT talk about if it's OK and the spouses are comfy enough to allow the other two to be friends and hang out alone.

 

Someone's in denial and it's only a matter of time before this whole thing blows up. You are STILL choosing this friendship, wanting it badly, more than your own marriage.

 

I agree with this. This friendship needs to get put on the backburner. Jack's comment of "too nice" is for a specific reason. Either he feels threatened that you are moving in on his wife or thinks you were overcompensating to prove the friendship when that really isn't the true subconscious intention. When someone says "too nice" it is NOT a good thing. That fact that SHE went back and told you what he said in their private spousal talk once again proves you are BOTH overstepping your boundaries - and talking about private things to each other.

 

And the fact that you have had other opposite sex friends (Sue) and your wife only feels threatened by Jill should be another flashing red light for you. Instead you are pushing this "wife is making me give up friend #2" as a justification that you should still maintain this friendship with Jill instead of really taking a step back and looking at the whole picture here.

 

Things I have noticed you haven't answered that posters have asked...

 

Do you find Jill sexually attractive?

 

If Jill's husband asked for her to stop being friends with you how would you react? How would she react?

 

Why is it that Jill knows SHE is part of the problem in your marriage, your wife has asked you to cool off - and she knows this, but is still not backing off from being friends with you?

 

What exactly did happen with friend #1 after the incident?

[walkermark]

How about looking at this slightly differently? That friend #1 YOU got rid of because you felt he "was a threat to you"

Now, your W feels a woman is a threat to her, but you don't want to get rid of friend # 2....

No, I got rid of him because of what he did. I don't believe he was a threat. I know he kissed her because I saw it.

 

I mean, do you honestly think your W wanted to get rid of your charming friend #1? No -- she really liked him, it was YOU that wanted to get rid of him because of them finding each other attractive and kissing.

If that is the case my W has lied all these years and no amount of MC will fix this and I will dislike him more than I already do.

 

Now, you choose to keep Friend #2 because you feel like it and you don't care if W is really uncomfortable with it. You do what you want. Seems like you have all the power in your marriage, nice isn't it?

I do care and I want to take whatever steps are necessary for her to feel as comfortable as she does with other friends of mine. I don't have the power because if she makes me choose I have to chose my W.

 

Perhaps your W should choose as a new friend, your old friend #1 and see if you are okay with that new friend of hers?

This is plain stupid. They have a history and I have proof of it because I saw it. W commits adultery. H has a platonic friend therefore W deserves to be friends with OM? Hmm... That sounds reasonable. Pair up the cheaters as friends, because thats the same as two people that are in love with their spouses being friends.

[angie2443]

That fact that SHE went back and told you what he said in their private spousal talk once again proves you are BOTH overstepping your boundaries - and talking about private things to each other.

?

 

This is why, in my opinion, the friendship will end up destroying the marriage. The bounderies have already been crossed. There doesn't need to be sex or romance in the friendship to harm the marriage. The marriage is already harmed. How are you supposed to trust your spouse if they don't respect the private conversations in the marriage?

[angie2443]

Since I'm now starting to sound like a walking advertisement for MC, I'll bow out. Hopefully the OP will make choices and changes which are healthy for him and their M.

 

MC can be great as long as both parties want to save the marriage and the MC is good.

[walkermark]

And the fact that you have had other opposite sex friends (Sue) and your wife only feels threatened by Jill should be another flashing red light for you. Instead you are pushing this "wife is making me give up friend #2" as a justification that you should still maintain this friendship with Jill instead of really taking a step back and looking at the whole picture here.

What am I looking for? Suppose I accept this theme that there HAS to be something more to it or I am not admitting something to myself... How can I figure that out?

 

Things I have noticed you haven't answered that posters have asked...

 

Do you find Jill sexually attractive?

I do consider her pretty but I am not sexually attracted to her

 

If Jill's husband asked for her to stop being friends with you how would you react? How would she react?

I would want to talk to him (I know, I'm crazy) Not sure. can I ask her? (I'm kidding)

 

Why is it that Jill knows SHE is part of the problem in your marriage, your wife has asked you to cool off - and she knows this, but is still not backing off from being friends with you?

We are backed off and she is OK with that - doesn't understand the big deal but is OK with it.

 

What exactly did happen with friend #1 after the incident?

I talked to him. He denied it and I said OK don't ever talk to us again. I decided to not get divorced.

[treehugger2008]

I'm sorry.

 

But why is Jill the enemy and get to lose a friend because OP's W is insecure and doesn't trust OP? This doesn't seem fair to Jill, when all she's been is a good friend to OP....helping OP get back on track with his marriage and make his marriage better, giving him ideas on doing fun things with his W, etc.

 

To me, Jill has done SO much and been such a good friend, and she's getting dumped on by mostly everyone on this post. She has no intentions of being anything more than co-workers or friends, and yet mostly everyone thinks OP and Jill have something more going on. Jill loves Jack. OP loves his W. That's all there is to it.

 

There needs to be better way for the insecure W to not mind the friendship and go on with letting OP be friends with Jill.....Jill is basically Sue or any other friend that OP has...it's not fair.

[angie2443]

I'm sorry.

 

But why is Jill the enemy and get to lose a friend because OP's W is insecure and doesn't trust OP? This doesn't seem fair to Jill, when all she's been is a good friend to OP....helping OP get back on track with his marriage and make his marriage better, giving him ideas on doing fun things with his W, etc.

 

To me, Jill has done SO much and been such a good friend, and she's getting dumped on by mostly everyone on this post. She has no intentions of being anything more than co-workers or friends, and yet mostly everyone thinks OP and Jill have something more going on. Jill loves Jack. OP loves his W. That's all there is to it.

 

There needs to be better way for the insecure W to not mind the friendship and go on with letting OP be friends with Jill.....Jill is basically Sue or any other friend that OP has...it's not fair.

 

I'm sure she is a wonderful friend to the husband. You have that right.

[travelgirl]

I'm sorry.

 

But why is Jill the enemy and get to lose a friend because OP's W is insecure and doesn't trust OP? This doesn't seem fair to Jill, when all she's been is a good friend to OP....helping OP get back on track with his marriage and make his marriage better, giving him ideas on doing fun things with his W, etc.

 

To me, Jill has done SO much and been such a good friend, and she's getting dumped on by mostly everyone on this post. She has no intentions of being anything more than co-workers or friends, and yet mostly everyone thinks OP and Jill have something more going on. Jill loves Jack. OP loves his W. That's all there is to it.

 

There needs to be better way for the insecure W to not mind the friendship and go on with letting OP be friends with Jill.....Jill is basically Sue or any other friend that OP has...it's not fair.

 

Most people are not saying Jill is the enemy. It is the fact that they are so close that they are BOTH talking to each other about things their other spouses would NOT feel comfortable with them talking to each other. An EA doesn't sex and it doesn't even have to have romance. The problem is that they are both overstepping their boundaries and are both in denial that this is a simple casual friendship. It is a big red flag that it could lead to more. This is how ALL EA's tend to start. There are big warning signs. When both are going back and saying their respective spouses have concern and telling each other those private conversations and then not really doing anything about it, it could lead to an EA, PA and both marriages destroyed. Most work affairs begin JUST like this - but normally without the spouses knowing.

 

My H was just friends with the younger co-worker and he talked about her and so forth. I saw her in the office and few times outside the office and had nice conversations with her. My daughter would visit the office and she was always so nice to her. It wasn't in hiding. At least not in the first few months. Then one time he started talking about one of her ex-boyfriends and how he was trying to get back with her and yada yada. I told him he was overstepping work and personal boundaries by talking to an employee like this. He blew it off like I was crazy, he was just being a friend she could talk to. I was too stupid to think there would ever be anything more and thought maybe I was crazy. After that moment we never really talked about it anymore. Then I started realizing he wasn't talking about her much at all anymore and after a few months, I started snooping and found all kinds of friendly kidding emails and texts. They weren't having sex, not even thinking about it. But all the stuff went WAY past a normal friendship and it was all behind my back. It doesn't need to be sexual to be a total deceit to your wife. The OP's situation seems very similar to mine and I think he should be warned that OTHER people tend to see the situation before you do.

[EnigmaXOXO]

There needs to be better way for the insecure W to not mind the friendship and go on with letting OP be friends with Jill

 

And Walkermark needs to also examine more closely why his own insecurities, suspicions, and “trust issues” cause him to gravitate more towards female companions rather than bonding with other males. Like a good majority of other men do.

 

I’m sure the previous dynamics of his marriage (his wife having limited contact or close associations of her own outside of him) have kept him feeling comfortable and secure for the most part of the last fifteen years. Which begs to question if his recent concern for his wife’s limited social networking isn’t perhaps just a symptom of him wanting a little more elbow room for himself rather than any genuine concern about his wife “going insane” without having a best friend to confide in, like the new buddy he has just found.

 

It sounds as if they both share some of the same insecurities and distrust of outsiders, and in spite of where they originated, it has somehow become the common bond between them that has kept them both feeling emotionally secure while they were in the recovery process of their marriage. And while I absolutely agree it would be healthy for both of them to expand their social network and allow others into their lives ... I have to wonder if Walkermark is truly at a place yet where he can abandon his own fears regarding his wife’s past infidelity (and resulting distrust of other males) in order to make that transition go smoothly for both of them. If not, than he’s no more emotionally prepared to handle the changes he wants to introduce to their relationship anymore than his wife is.

[tomswife]

I'm sorry.

 

But why is Jill the enemy and get to lose a friend because OP's W is insecure and doesn't trust OP? This doesn't seem fair to Jill, when all she's been is a good friend to OP....helping OP get back on track with his marriage and make his marriage better, giving him ideas on doing fun things with his W, etc.

 

To me, Jill has done SO much and been such a good friend, and she's getting dumped on by mostly everyone on this post. She has no intentions of being anything more than co-workers or friends, and yet mostly everyone thinks OP and Jill have something more going on. Jill loves Jack. OP loves his W. That's all there is to it.

 

There needs to be better way for the insecure W to not mind the friendship and go on with letting OP be friends with Jill.....Jill is basically Sue or any other friend that OP has...it's not fair.

Because the marriage is more important than Jill and if the guy cares about his wife's feeling he should dump Jill.

[carhill]

One last thing to point out is that my wife besides me has no close friends. A few casual friends at work, but certainly not someone she would consider close or a best friend. Obviously she has no one else to talk to about all this (I would go insane). I on the other hand have Jill, Sue, the friend that moved and recently one new guy friend all of which I can talk to to some degree about all this.

 

I'm noting the OP with two female friends and one "new guy friend".

 

OP, I recall elsewhere in your posts where you commented that your wife was very beautiful. I would assume that you are equally attractive. Would you say that you and/or she feel socially inept and unable to establish friendships? If so, why do you think that is?

 

A poster noted that "most men" bond with other men. That sounds reasonable. I'm an exception to that generality but validate it nonetheless. How do you feel about bonding with other men? Are you satisfied with such friendships? Do they feel good to you?

 

Lastly, is the nature of yours and your wife's work transitory? IOW, do your jobs require a lot of changing locations/homes, etc? If yes, do you think that has a bearing on your social network, both in quality and in quantity?

 

Do you feel your marriage has been a healthy one? Why?

 

I'm covering just the tip of some of the subjects our psych questioned us about during MC. The real work is in the details.

[Athena]

I'm sorry.

 

But why is Jill the enemy and get to lose a friend because OP's W is insecure and doesn't trust OP? This doesn't seem fair to Jill, when all she's been is a good friend to OP....helping OP get back on track with his marriage and make his marriage better, giving him ideas on doing fun things with his W, etc.

 

To me, Jill has done SO much and been such a good friend, and she's getting dumped on by mostly everyone on this post. She has no intentions of being anything more than co-workers or friends, and yet mostly everyone thinks OP and Jill have something more going on. Jill loves Jack. OP loves his W. That's all there is to it.

 

There needs to be better way for the insecure W to not mind the friendship and go on with letting OP be friends with Jill.....Jill is basically Sue or any other friend that OP has...it's not fair.

 

Wow -- treehugger2008 (first post) you sound like Walkermark's alter ego?!

[smarterthanbefore]

Hi w Walkermark, I am new here and just wanted to reply to your thread. It sounds so much like my situation with my now EX-boyfriend, ( I love saying that). He was friends with a co- worker, let's call her Jane. He would come home talking about how Jane and him went to lunch and what projects they worked on. He had other female friends that did not bother me, some i hung out with, I did not hang out with a lot, but his friendship with them never bothered me. Jane did. It was the way he sounded when he talked about her. Not his words, they were innocent, but his voice would change and he was different. Sent my gut instinct blarring. This is what your wife is feeling, that something is not right. Anyway Jane was marrie as well, and her and my BF claimed to be happy in thier relationships. They started discussing thier relationships with me and her husband together, and I told him that this was crossing the line and making me uncomfortable, he stated that nothing was going on and I was

paranoid, he even looked up EA like you to prove he was not and talked her husband about it. We all went out together to get to know each other and everything, did not work. Just like Jill, Jane claimed if it was a problem she would dissolve the "friendship". I stated it was a problem, friendship ended, so I thought. My boyfriend became distant and moody afterwards, i thought it was job related since the whole Jane thing was over, till her husband came over and showed me pictures of them kissing in the park, going to hotels at lunch and e-mails of them talking about the sex they had the day before while i was out of town. A six month affair that resulted in her pregnancy, her divorce, our breakup, both my boyfriend and jane losing their jobs and my boyfriends whole family hating him for it. Jane and my boyfriend tried to make a relationship work, but it ended after she cheated on him twice, he cried on the phone to me begging for another chance, which he never got and never will. Please don't let this be you and your wife. Swallow your pride and kill friendship with Jill before is to late and the cause of your divorce.

[angie2443]

It was the way he sounded when he talked about her. Not his words, they were innocent, but his voice would change and he was different. Sent my gut instinct blarring. This is what your wife is feeling, that something is not right. Anyway Jane was marrie as well, and her and my BF claimed to be happy in thier relationships. They started discussing thier relationships with me and her husband together, and I told him that this was crossing the line and making me uncomfortable, he stated that nothing was going on and I was

paranoid, he even looked up EA like you to prove he was not and talked her husband about it. We all went out together to get to know each other and everything, did not work. .

 

This part sounds so simular to my situation. It was the phone call part that struck me. My husband's voice often changes depending on who he's talking to. I can usually tell who's on the other line just by the tone in my husband's voice. When he was talking to his "friend", I knew that it was her because their was an intimancy present in his voice that wasn't there when he talked to other people. It was one of those things that hit me hard in the gut but that I pushed aside in my mind because he kept saying they were "just friends".

 

Really, you are lucky in a way. You found things out about your boyfriend before you built a life with him.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Ever since my Wife did what she did with my best friend, I have considered that in my choices of friends - silly maybe, but it's true. Jill was a safe friend - safe because she was happily married to someone else and safe because nothing could happen between her and my wife.

 

It’s not silly to be selective about your choice of friends. Particularly when you have another person to consider and must evaluate whether that association will be beneficial or detrimental to your primary relationship (your marriage).

 

While Jill might feel like a “safe” companion (for you) because there’s little chance she will cheat with your wife (your insecurities) ... the friendship doesn’t feel “safe” to your wife because her insecurities are being discounted and labeled as silly and irrational. THIS is what will cause a division and the eventual breakdown of your marriage. Regardless of Jill’s credentials or intentions ... the friendship is not as “safe” as it might seem on the surface.

 

It’s not Jill’s fault, either. Rather the power struggle between you and your wife to have your concerns acknowledged and validated by each other has simply turned Jill into the physical manifestation of all your hidden fears. And the way you and your wife handle it TOGETHER will determine whether this friendship becomes the marital life-line you so desperately seek ... or your noose.

 

If I were in your shoes, and wanted to stay happily married .... I’d choose my spouse!

[carhill]

IMO, even if Jill was dead and buried, the OP isn't and hasn't been for sometime happily married. Sure, the veneer is there but the termites have eaten out the structure. He has some surprises coming. Everything is just too perfect on the surface.

 

Prioritize the marriage, yes, for sure, but don't expect that to be some panacea....

[mental_traveller]

Can I clarify - your wife once made out with your (ex) best friend at a wedding? Is this true?

 

If so, then you can tell her to take a hike, and say you will be as friendly with Jill as you see fit.

[angie2443]

Can I clarify - your wife once made out with your (ex) best friend at a wedding? Is this true?

 

If so, then you can tell her to take a hike, and say you will be as friendly with Jill as you see fit.

 

Why not just divorce now instead of dragging this sad little marriage through the mud any further?

[Athena]

Why not just divorce now instead of dragging this sad little marriage through the mud any further?

 

Don't you think that is a drastic overreaction for OP to divorce his wife NOW after several years have passed since his then-drunk W kissed his now Ex-friend at a wedding?

 

He still loves his wife, they have a good marriage. Why do you see it as a 'sad little marriage'?

I don't think it is.

[Athena]

Walkerman,

 

I just want to tell you something. I believe the reason that the majority of your posters are warning you about your friendship with Jill potentially hurting the goodness of your marriage, is because the people here can see a certain PATTERN occurring.

 

When posters here see the same pattern occurring over and over again in the majority of cases to people and them falling prey to their human emotions, the posters are warning you what they see in your situation.

 

Of course you know your intentions are honorable and that you would not have an affair.

But there have been other honorable souls that have fallen prey to too-close relationships that they simply couldn't see as a danger sign.

 

If your wife in real-life can see the danger in your friendship with Jill, and the posters can see the set-up in your situation as a well-known dangerous pattern, don't you think you ought to step back and reassess the situation?

[carhill]

Perhaps a re-read of post #108 is in order....

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelgirl

Why is it that Jill knows SHE is part of the problem in your marriage, your wife has asked you to cool off - and she knows this, but is still not backing off from being friends with you?

 

We are backed off and she is OK with that - doesn't understand the big deal but is OK with it.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1964556&postcount=108

 

Just trying to keep things current.....

 

Next step is MC

[smarterthanbefore]

Hi angie244, you are right, I was lucky, although I spent 5 years with this boyfriend and the pain was surreal it hurt so bad, i realize i was very lucky. I could have been legally stuck with him by marriage, and it would have cost thousands to rid myself of this poison. I actually thanked Jane for showing me his real colors and taking my garbage for me. To this day, it's been 4 years since, he still tries to reconcile with me. One thing I believe is most things in relationships can be worked out, as long as both are willing to try, but when trust is broken, it can never be truly fixed and that is a deal breaker for me. I will work through anything except cheating and mental or physical abuse. If this occurs, all bets are off. No second chances, automatic divorce. I understand everyone's situation and beliefs are diffferent, especially when kids are involved, but that has been my rule my whole life, and I will never change it. I don't believe in staying for the Kids, I believe in showing them a great loving relationship. Kids do what they see. If mom let dad cheat, my daughter will marry a cheater. If my son see daddy cheat and get away with it and mom stay, my son will be a cheater or marry one. I can't be partially responsible for that. For these reasons alone, I will divorce a cheating husband. My father cheated on my mom, and it broke her heart. They are still together, but not the same. I, as a result have dated 2 major cheaters, and had to get therapy for trust issues concerning my fathers actions and well as the previous boyfriends. I wish my mother had left and found a loving faithful man to share her life with. I still love my father, but am still disappointed by what he did, and have to fight hard to respect him. I don't want that for my children should me and my BF have any.

[BlueEyedGirl]

 

I do consider her pretty but I am not sexually attracted to her

 

 

 

I think this is BS. I do not beleive that men can have a close friendship with a female they consider pretty and not have any sexual thoughts about them.

 

Also if Jill was 300lbs woman with facial hair and exactly the same personality I don't beleive that OP's friendship with Jill would be all that appealing.

[JamesM]

I think this is BS. I do not beleive that men can have a close friendship with a female they consider pretty and not have any sexual thoughts about them.

 

He did not say he did not have sexual thoughts. He said he did not find her sexually attractive. For me, my cubicle mate was not sexually attractive to ME, but to say that I never imagined what she was like sexually would be false. However, I can say that I did not want to be with her sexually. It was never that kind of relationship.

 

And yes, I have had many relationships with women...and a couple very close...who I felt were very pretty, yet I did not imagine them as sexual partners. I remember one who was a great confidant and quite pretty (general opinion by many guys), yet to me she was like a sister. Being with her sexually would be like being with a sister. And that was while I was unmarried.

 

Also if Jill was 300lbs woman with facial hair and exactly the same personality I don't beleive that OP's friendship with Jill would be all that appealing.

 

Now I can say that this may not be the case either. Again, I have had some friendships with women who would be considered quite heavy (I never asked their weight, but one came close to 250# or more for sure) and with time because of their personalities, I could see that the friendship could have been more.

 

I think we stereotype too much. We cannot see a guy having a friendship with a woman without sex if the woman is pretty, yet if we perceive the woman to be unattractive in some sense, we say it is okay because he could not be possibly be attracted to HER. All men are not such shallow creatures. Many do look beyond outward beauty.

 

And interestingly enough, even cheating men say in most cases, the OW is rarely prettier than their wives. Beauty is not what attracts the man to the OW...is is the fulfillment of a need that is lacking in his marriage.And for that reason, Jill can be dangerous.