What to believe??

[czali]

I was hoping you guys could give me some advice and opinions. I will try to give you the facts as unbiased-ly as possible and would value your input.

 

My husband and I have been together since we were 17 (now 28) and were high school sweethearts. We finished high school and started working. Travelled together, started saving for a house and 2 years ago got engaged. after this we started becoming more distant and our relationship deteriorated. He had a friendship with a woman he worked with and at some stage they began an affair. I wasn't sure what was happening or to what extent it was going on. Additionally i was quite down and believed him when he said nothing was happening. At some stages i would kick up a stink and tell him what he was doing was wrong but it never actually stopped. 6 weeks before the wedding i took his phone and texted her pretending to be him. I found out that they had been sleeping together and that he was considering leaving me for her. I confronted him and he said he still wanted to marry and me and he would end it with her. At the time i believed him and we got married. Things were still really strained between us during our early marriage so i hacked into his phone records and found out he had texted her on our wedding night and was texting and calling her every day of our honeymoon and the first four months of our marriage. I confronted him again and again believed him when he said that the affair was over he was just trying to be nice to her cos she was really upset and lonely. I tried to lay down the law but a few months later caught him with messages and calls to her - i don't know what they were saying but he was still in contact with her. And i believed him again that nothing was going on. and i can see he hasn't been in contact with her for months but last week i found emails from her saying " i love you lots". He says nothing is going on she just contacted him out of the blue cos she was lonely this time of year. But what do i believe?

 

can anyone help? am i being naive? but what if he is telling the truth?

 

I'm so confused.......

[2sunny]

there's a lot to be worried about. i wouldn't want to spend the rest of my married days wondering if my H still has a gal hanging around...

 

all it takes is one bad day between the two of you and he goes running to her... believe me - she will wait around and comfort him any day she's sees the opportunity.

 

i'd leave him. mainly because there's no trust and no reason to continue to wonder.

 

there are men out there who would never subject you to this.

 

this doesn't look like love to me.

[2sure]

No, he is not telling you the truth. He was calling her on your wedding night and during your honey moon because he wanted to. He enjoys both your attention and hers. It does not hurt him to have both..so where is the harm? Oh yes, the harm is to you. ONLY. And even then you raise a stink, he lies and quiets you down, then resumes married life as he sees it.

 

I dont want to sound blunt...your situation sounds much like my own and countless others here. Keep Reading!!!!

 

To get to the point first, so you recognize it while you are reading here:

UNTIL THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS BEHAVIOR AFFECT HIM - HE WILL CONTINUE.

 

So far, you have done nothing. And the result has been no change.

You have to confront him - you DO NOT need black and white proof. You do not need to ask questions. And confront the OW. Tell her to leave your family alone. He married you, he didnt want her, so get out.

 

Thats enough for now - but please keep posting.

[jwi71]

I was hoping you guys could give me some advice and opinions. I will try to give you the facts as unbiased-ly as possible and would value your input.

 

My husband and I have been together since we were 17 (now 28) and were high school sweethearts. We finished high school and started working. Travelled together, started saving for a house and 2 years ago got engaged. after this we started becoming more distant and our relationship deteriorated. He had a friendship with a woman he worked with and at some stage they began an affair. I wasn't sure what was happening or to what extent it was going on. Additionally i was quite down and believed him when he said nothing was happening. At some stages i would kick up a stink and tell him what he was doing was wrong but it never actually stopped. 6 weeks before the wedding i took his phone and texted her pretending to be him. I found out that they had been sleeping together and that he was considering leaving me for her. I confronted him and he said he still wanted to marry and me and he would end it with her. At the time i believed him and we got married. Things were still really strained between us during our early marriage so i hacked into his phone records and found out he had texted her on our wedding night and was texting and calling her every day of our honeymoon and the first four months of our marriage. I confronted him again and again believed him when he said that the affair was over he was just trying to be nice to her cos she was really upset and lonely. I tried to lay down the law but a few months later caught him with messages and calls to her - i don't know what they were saying but he was still in contact with her. And i believed him again that nothing was going on. and i can see he hasn't been in contact with her for months but last week i found emails from her saying " i love you lots". He says nothing is going on she just contacted him out of the blue cos she was lonely this time of year. But what do i believe?

 

can anyone help? am i being naive? but what if he is telling the truth?

 

I'm so confused.......

 

After all the lies, after all the deceit, after all the affairs what on Earth makes you think he suddenly grew a conscience?

 

Are you effin' kidding me - he text her on your wedding day? During your honeymoon? That's an astounding amount of disrespect to you, the institution of marriage, your family, his family - everyone.

 

Is it too late to have this annulled? Sorry, but this is not marriage. He was cheating before, during and after your wedding.

 

I mean if this is how he treats you during the honeymoon phase - can you imagine how he will react when reality hits?

 

I really see no chance of this M surviving.

[Reggie]

I agree. This guy is bad news. Run.

[Athena]

Okay, so let me get this straight: for several years you guys had a good relationship UNTIL you got engaged? THEN you both got 'distant' and the relationship suffered. After you married things got 'strained' again?

Well, this guy sounds like he got a bad dose of commitment phobia right after the engagement, once the two of you committed to The Rest of Your Lives Together. Seems like it scared him and he started up an affair, as some sort of 'insurance' for his emotional protection.

 

Let me assure you that the reason WHY you two were distant and strained was because he was involved in an affair. That is what happens... when one person is being loving and true, but the partner is deceiving and lying to cover up what he is really thinking and doing, the lies form the distance where once there was only closeness. I stress this, because when you are unfamiliar with the nature of Affairs, you may not realize that is what happens -- the person giving someone else his attention and affection STEALS it from what is to be given to you.

 

Also, I absolutely believe from what you have said, that he is still lying. Yes, because he received no 'consequences' and also because it's in his nature to lie to you, so naturally he will continue to do so. And, as you will see for yourself when you read enough of the posts, there are a lot of commonalities in a Cheat’s behavior.

 

You are asking, "But what if he is really telling the truth?" Funny, because I am asking this exact question of my cheating H 22 years later, each time hoping for honesty. Well, unfortunately, you can never know for sure, until you look BACKWARDS and see what you are dealing with -- the outward signs of his inner beliefs and his character. And don't expect him to willingly expose himself to you.... you will have to start playing detective, (oh but you have had to start that already haven't you?!) -- well get ready to continue doing this forever more... Is this what you want? See, instead of asking "What if he is really telling the truth this time" you should be asking yourself why he ever started lying in the first place.

 

Look up Emotionally Unavailable, Distancing, Commitment Phobia and see what you can learn. Good luck, you are dealing with a man who willingly lies to you instead of loving, respecting and honoring you with the truth that you and your marriage deserve.

[Diamonds&Rust]

I don't think your guy is a terrible person, and I don't think he's suffering from some social disease.

 

I think he really loves you. I think you guys had a really good run but his heart has wandered. I don't think it's your fault.

 

I think he would still be very good to you, but probably won't break it off with her, and if he does, it won't guarantee his continued fidelity.

 

I've been through what you're feeling. My choice was to continue to make excuses for her because I sincerely loved being with her even at the expense of my own sanity. I don't regret it, but it was not easy. There certainly aren't many here who would support your decision to settle for something substandard, which is what you're doing.

 

I'm not making excuses for this guy. I just don't think he's a terrible person. You really can't choose who you fall in love with. It's wholly possible that objective integrity would dictate he do the right thing and break it off with OP, but everyone here also understands at some level that people behave differently when so many emotions are mixed into it.

 

Think about how long they were together. It's easy to fall into a habit and stop seeing your partner as romantically thrilling, especially with such prior inexperience and such a vested sense in your identity as a couple.

 

Affairs don't happen because people are wicked. They happen because people are human, and people who 'do the right thing' and run from them are not suddenly emotionally available to reward their temperance.

[pelicanpreacher]

I don't think your guy is a terrible person, and I don't think he's suffering from some social disease.

 

I think he really loves you. I think you guys had a really good run but his heart has wandered. I don't think it's your fault.

 

I think he would still be very good to you, but probably won't break it off with her, and if he does, it won't guarantee his continued fidelity.

 

I've been through what you're feeling. My choice was to continue to make excuses for her because I sincerely loved being with her even at the expense of my own sanity. I don't regret it, but it was not easy. There certainly aren't many here who would support your decision to settle for something substandard, which is what you're doing.

 

I'm not making excuses for this guy. I just don't think he's a terrible person. You really can't choose who you fall in love with. It's wholly possible that objective integrity would dictate he do the right thing and break it off with OP, but everyone here also understands at some level that people behave differently when so many emotions are mixed into it.

 

Think about how long they were together. It's easy to fall into a habit and stop seeing your partner as romantically thrilling, especially with such prior inexperience and such a vested sense in your identity as a couple.

 

Affairs don't happen because people are wicked. They happen because people are human, and people who 'do the right thing' and run from them are not suddenly emotionally available to reward their temperance.

 

People of integrity rebuke affairs because they empathize with how their spouse or SO would feel if subjected to that level of betrayal even if they don't share a particularly close or intimate relationship with them. Their temperance needn't be rewarded for the standards and creed by which they live simply prohibit devious or immature behavior in favor of any inclination to indulge themselves at the expense of another. That's the difference between one committed to keeping the soil beneath their feet as opposed to floating their heads in a cloud!

[Diamonds&Rust]

(~digression!)

 

preacher, While I agree that honesty & empathy is a crucial part of emotional maturity; at the same time, a lot of beliefs about fidelity though entrenched in the language of 'integrity' are deeply psychologically rooted in control issues.

 

I fully understand that fidelity is a vital component of most relationships, mine included, but that doesn't change the fact that it's an unenlightened view of love. It essentially says that a love between two is devalued if one loves another also, which through fierce semantic marriage with morality has obscured the fact that it's a passing of the emotional responsibility buck.

 

My assumption is that people who have a black-and-white view of infidelity as an absolute wrong have never struggled with having feelings for someone outside of their committed relationship. People are always works-in-progress, and while causing pain to another is wrong, it's often unavoidable no matter which course of action is decided upon. The immoral action could be staying in your unsatisfying relationship in the first place. In my opinion, it all depends on how much your system of morality affords the freedom to express one's humanity as opposed to how much it relies on self-denial.

[pelicanpreacher]

(~digression!)

 

preacher, While I agree that honesty & empathy is a crucial part of emotional maturity; at the same time, a lot of beliefs about fidelity though entrenched in the language of 'integrity' are deeply psychologically rooted in control issues.

 

I fully understand that fidelity is a vital component of most relationships, mine included, but that doesn't change the fact that it's an unenlightened view of love. It essentially says that a love between two is devalued if one loves another also, which through fierce semantic marriage with morality has obscured the fact that it's a passing of the emotional responsibility buck.

 

My assumption is that people who have a black-and-white view of infidelity as an absolute wrong have never struggled with having feelings for someone outside of their committed relationship. People are always works-in-progress, and while causing pain to another is wrong, it's often unavoidable no matter which course of action is decided upon. The immoral action could be staying in your unsatisfying relationship in the first place. In my opinion, it all depends on how much your system of morality affords the freedom to express one's humanity as opposed to how much it relies on self-denial.

 

Tis said that one cannot serve two masters unless he be embued with the power of ressurection for, as a mortal, the full devotion of love can only be carried unto one life and one body at any given time. The love to which Czali's husband espouses, however, is devalued by reckoning it to mere words as he parcels and doles his "act of love" as crumbs while expecting the full force of love in return from another, and another, and another, et etc... for he hath fancied himself master of all. You said earlier that Czali's husband harbored no social disorder yet most would assess him as a narcissist whose selfishness allows him the liberty to love himself above all others and that is the black and white of the emotional buck I pass back to you D&R!

 

Czali, your mistake is in accepting the crumbs he doles as something worthy so, unless you take the hard stance of retracting your love in total by walking away from him, you shall always be unfulfilled.

[jwi71]

I think he would still be very good to you, but probably won't break it off with her, and if he does, it won't guarantee his continued fidelity.

 

You have got to be effin' kidding me.

 

Good to her. Oh do tell.

[Owl]

(~digression!)

 

preacher, While I agree that honesty & empathy is a crucial part of emotional maturity; at the same time, a lot of beliefs about fidelity though entrenched in the language of 'integrity' are deeply psychologically rooted in control issues.

 

I fully understand that fidelity is a vital component of most relationships, mine included, but that doesn't change the fact that it's an unenlightened view of love. It essentially says that a love between two is devalued if one loves another also, which through fierce semantic marriage with morality has obscured the fact that it's a passing of the emotional responsibility buck.

 

My assumption is that people who have a black-and-white view of infidelity as an absolute wrong have never struggled with having feelings for someone outside of their committed relationship. People are always works-in-progress, and while causing pain to another is wrong, it's often unavoidable no matter which course of action is decided upon. The immoral action could be staying in your unsatisfying relationship in the first place. In my opinion, it all depends on how much your system of morality affords the freedom to express one's humanity as opposed to how much it relies on self-denial.

 

Not at all.

 

I've been married over 21 years now. During that time, I've been deployed away from my wife and family several times, sometimes for six months plus. I'm human...of course I've experienced strong attractions for other women outside my my marriage.

 

BUT...the difference here is that I recognized what was going on...and took active measures to PREVENT those feelings from growing into an affair.

 

Those feelings, those relationships...they only grow if you feed them. If you LET them grow. If you recognize what's going on...and then deliberately end the relationship before it can progress...you avoid cheating.

 

Sorry...cheating is a CHOICE...not an accident. I've experienced the attraction...heck...most people do if they stay with the same person long enough. But I still remain in the "anti-affair league".

 

Sorry, but the concept that those against affairs haven't 'experienced feelings' doesn't make sense. We're all human...the difference here is the CHOICE in how to respond to that situation when we get near to it.

[Benique]

No.

He wont stop .

The marriage you are in , has the least meaning and importance for him .

I wonder just why he married you ,and why he did not break up with you before your wedding ...

Leave him . Start a new life . You have No other choice if you want to be happy ever .

 

 

I wish you the best !

[pelicanpreacher]

Not at all.

 

I've been married over 21 years now. During that time, I've been deployed away from my wife and family several times, sometimes for six months plus. I'm human...of course I've experienced strong attractions for other women outside my my marriage.

 

BUT...the difference here is that I recognized what was going on...and took active measures to PREVENT those feelings from growing into an affair.

 

Those feelings, those relationships...they only grow if you feed them. If you LET them grow. If you recognize what's going on...and then deliberately end the relationship before it can progress...you avoid cheating.

 

Sorry...cheating is a CHOICE...not an accident. I've experienced the attraction...heck...most people do if they stay with the same person long enough. But I still remain in the "anti-affair league".

 

Sorry, but the concept that those against affairs haven't 'experienced feelings' doesn't make sense. We're all human...the difference here is the CHOICE in how to respond to that situation when we get near to it.

 

Here! Here!

[beyondsad]

Well said OWL. I often wonder how I picked someone so un-like myself and did not even know. Character, honesty and integrity is who you are when no one else is looking. I could not go to sleep each night knowing I was lying and cheating on my husband. When I made those vows no other man could make me stray. My H on the other hand turned out to be a cake eater. When he was caught he dumped the OW and ran back to me. I have given him one chance. It is a hard road to forgive but I do love him and hope for the best.

[pelicanpreacher]

Well said OWL. I often wonder how I picked someone so un-like myself and did not even know. Character, honesty and integrity is who you are when no one else is looking. I could not go to sleep each night knowing I was lying and cheating on my husband. When I made those vows no other man could make me stray. My H on the other hand turned out to be a cake eater. When he was caught he dumped the OW and ran back to me. I have given him one chance. It is a hard road to forgive but I do love him and hope for the best.

 

Because you can't judge a book by its cover. Once read though, you cannot un-ring the bell for you now know what you know and must live with the consequences for any decisions taken from there.

[beyondsad]

That is why I have given ONE chance. No way to un-do the wrong but hopefully the past 14 weeks of hell are not in vain. I am amazed that I survived and still love him so very much. When he says he loves me and it will never happen again I want to believe him. I keep telling myself everything is going to be ok no matter what and I am hoping it will. My view on moral character has changed and I am glad that I am the way I am and sorry that I am in love with someone so weak of character. Do you think that someone can change?

[jwi71]

beyondsad-

 

Yes, people can change providing they WANT it bad enough.

But for a person to truly change he/she must accept what is "wrong" to begin with. And change, by definition, is frightening. We are asking humans with ingrained behaviors, thought processes and mannerisms to "unlearn" what may have taken decades to form. Talk about leaving one's comfort zone.

 

And that is why change is so d*mn difficult. It is also why the person "needing change" has to truly accept the faults and truly work on it.

 

And I firmly believe it can be done.

[Diamonds&Rust]

It's fine if your prerogative is to demonize somebody you don't even know (and have only heard one side of the story from) but I just didn't think that would be helpful to OP. I'm not going to put myself in the position of defending philanderers, except to maybe dispel some of the unhelpful positions that they're pure evil.

 

You said earlier that Czali's husband harbored no social disorder yet most would assess him as a narcissist whose selfishness allows him the liberty to love himself above all others

I would agree that affair-seeking behavior is evidence of narcissism. However, not all narcissism constitutes a social disease (in fact, a bizarre sense of selflessness would be an equal impairment) and there is a difference between someone who seeks out an affair and someone who fails to stop one.

 

I too plant myself in the "anti-affair league." I just find the self-righteousness that accompanies it dishonest. Anyway, I won't let this become about me. If I were OP, I would find moral showboating to be unhelpful, which is why I posted what I posted, which I still stand by.

[pelicanpreacher]

That is why I have given ONE chance. No way to un-do the wrong but hopefully the past 14 weeks of hell are not in vain. I am amazed that I survived and still love him so very much. When he says he loves me and it will never happen again I want to believe him. I keep telling myself everything is going to be ok no matter what and I am hoping it will. My view on moral character has changed and I am glad that I am the way I am and sorry that I am in love with someone so weak of character. Do you think that someone can change?

 

I absolutely believe individuals can change but only if they will make an honest assessment of their reflection in the mirror to accept the flaws hidden within their character and truly wish to divorce themselves of those perceived defects. The problem comes when the individual is unmotivated or enjoys themselves as they are too much to want to change or put forth the time and energy to accomplish the task. Change must be worth the result else they end up exactly how they've always been!

[beyondsad]

Of coure that is my fear. I think it takes a certain character to cheat and lie in the first place. Being comfortable lying is a very unfavorable flaw. Time wil only tell. In my case I never saw it coming, H was loving, nice , fun to be around , sex was good.... He still is good to me it is just now I see him in his true form and want to believe in him but it is worrisome.

Before A I was very independent and did not require alot of reassuring. On some level maybe that is why he was seeking OW with weak moral character like himself - she was M. Now I have changed I need a alot of reasurring and it may not be that apppealing to him. He wants the old wife bcak I think.

All this has boggled my brain. Still I want to remain positve and hope for the best.

[Purple_me]

(...) what do i believe?

 

can anyone help? am i being naive? but what if he is telling the truth?

 

I'm so confused.......

 

Why don't you ask her?

I know she can lie... but you can always talk to her... you can even call her and say please back off...

 

About your question about him telling the truth... I undesrtand your fear a 100%, but if he IS in fact telling the truth, don't think he has the right to be mad at you for doubting, after all YOU DID GIVE HIM YOUR TRUST, when he told you nothing was going on (lie) and when you MARRIED him (and he remained in contact with her).

He has to understand (and you too) that trusting is something you GAIN... and he lost it... he has to recover it... and let's be honest, breaking ALL KIND of contact with her would be step number 1.

 

Hoep it helps!

 

let us know what happened!

 

P.

[czali]

Thank you to everyone who replied. As you can see I am new here and didn't expect to find such support from "strangers". It means a lot so thank you.

 

Since my last post a few things have happened: I packed up and left for a few days to stay with a girlfriend. This seemed to give him a scare and he has been acting like Husband of the Year since.

 

i went through his phone again on the weekend and found no emails/calls to her except for one, which was an email from her with a photo of them together at their work christmas party (approx 6 weeks ago) and the message was - "miss you again already, wish you were back here with me".

 

i've also pretty much made up my mind to leave him. I am sick of the wondering of what was/is happening. I can't trust him and i don't think I want to continue to let him hurt me so much. I also don't know that i can forgive him for the damage he has done to me over the last 18 months. I have been so low and a lot of that is directly caused by him.

 

so - if people are still interested in giving me their thoughts - i was wondering - any advice on how to leave, and how to handle all the emotions that are going round and round and round.....

[atwitsend]

You've had time away to think. You know him better then anyone. One question and this is going to be murder. Would you still be OK if he ended up with this girl? If he did not end up with her, to prove he loved you, would you consider taking him back?