A Long Marriage In Trouble

[lillygirl]

Hello all,

 

I'm new to this forum, and after reading several posts, I think this is the place to get some input. My husband and I will be celebrating our 22nd anniversary in a couple of weeks. Neither of us had a prior marriage or child, and we were each other's first real love. We were best friends by the time we married, two years after we met and had gone steady. Seems good, right? Unfortunately there was a lot of dysfunction in both our childhoods that we at first thought brought us closer together but now I see set us up for years of problems. For the first six years, before we decided to have our daughter, we were blissfully happy and carefree. We did what we wanted when we wanted and did it all together. Then in '92 calamity hit--a financial emergency that caused a bankruptcy and the emotional collapse of my husband and best friend, all while I lost my father and learned I was pregnant. My husband never fully recovered from the blow of the bankruptcy and has emotionally withdrawn from the family. I know this is the only way he could deal with it at the time, but it's been so many years. I've had to be the head of household, raise our daughter by myself, listen to his constant worry about money even when none exists, and care for him as if he were my second child, all without a bit of support (except financial) from him. I have wanted to leave so many times, but I know he still loves me. He just can't get over the trauma of '92. His biggest fear was always becoming like his own father and not providing for his family. He always has--he's never been out of work, though he sticks with a job of 20 years that continues to underemploy him. I'm in college now, majoring in psychology, and working toward more independence. Most people will say, "Why not marriage counseling?" While I'm in school we can't afford it and to use his company insurance will start the rumor mill at his work. If anyone knew the place, they'd know that would be *bad*. I can't help but feel the irony, as I thought I was doing all the right things before marriage. I wanted a real marriage, not a sham like my parents. Now I'm in a terrible position. I want to believe it will get better, but it's been so long. We've talked openly about it and he has improved marginally on some things by reading self help books, but I don't think he understands the depth of our problem. He isn't supportive of any of my efforts though he thinks he is, he is the most pessimistic person on earth, and he constantly obsesses about money. He does all this in a very dependent, clingy way and uses guilt when I complain. I don't know what to do while waiting to graduate so we can get some counseling. I've pent up so much resentment I'm afraid things will never be good again. Our daughter is two years from college and I'm two years from a professional career. Two more years is getting short compared with the 16 years I've wanted to leave him. Now I have to make some decisions. Any advice? Thanks in advance.

[imagine]

 

I wanted a real marriage, not a sham like my parents.

 

Good. It's time to get real.

 

Do not accept guilt tripping. You need tools to handle all of his tactics. His tactics don't even work. Notice how they just distance you further.

 

Yours is SUCH a common situation and it is sad that they do not handle it as part of a school curriculum.

 

Go directly to the articles at marriagebuilders.com. They are free. Learn how to deal with conflict and find out why it is that you want to leave. By the way, he doesn't even realize fully how serious the marriage condition is!

 

Please continue to post here. You will not get a very sympathetic hearing on the other site. The articles are unrivaled however.

[jwi71]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. That's all I read about how you cannot go to MC.

 

You can't go because then you can't afford school.

Then you can't go because it's embarrassing at work.

Then it seems like such hard work after all the years and the injustice.

 

So what do YOU want?

Will YOU put in the time and effort to save the M? Can you postpone school to save your M? Take one fewer class to save it?

 

Won't go to insurance because its embarrassing? Excuse me, you are PAYING for the insurance so you might as well use it. I bet if you broke your arm you'd go. Social stigma? To hell with what others think - they don't have to live YOUR life in YOUR marriage. You want to save it - then TRY.

 

Will you TRY?

 

And I personally find the marriagebuilders stuff a bunch of crap - from the few articles I read. But if it works for you, then go for it!

[quankanne]

lots of different avenues are available for marriage enrichment and/or counseling, beginning with local churches whose clergy/ministers do this "for a living," you know? And they're bound to have resources to direct you toward.

 

repeating ad nauseum: The best thing my husband and I ever did for our marriage was a Marriage Encounter retreat sponsored by my church. Basically, you get the tools you need to learn how to communicate and your eyes get opened to what your true strengths are in your relationship. We also did a marriage enrichment workshop through the church, which was like a one-day version of the ME weekend, but still a very nice brush-up on skills.

 

while I understand that you loathe to feed the gossip mill at work, don't let that stop you from getting your marriage the help it needs – surely it's more important to get those tools to vuild a stronger marriage than it is to worry about what others will say?

[Mr. Lucky]

while I understand that you loathe to feed the gossip mill at work, don't let that stop you from getting your marriage the help it needs – surely it's more important to get those tools to vuild a stronger marriage than it is to worry about what others will say?

I agree 100%. What will the rumour mill say when you're separated? Divorced?

 

I think you simply need to lay it out for him - he can work to be part of the solution or choose to be part of the dissolution. Were it me, I wouldn't waste any more of my life under the circumstances you describe. Fix it or end it...

 

Mr. Lucky

[nittygritty]

I'm confused about some details in your post. When you say that you have had to be the "head of household" do you mean that your financial income has qualified you as the "head of household" on your tax returns? Or that the only thing that your husband does is completely financially support the family and your doing everything else?

[wildflowerchild98]

Sounds like you are stuck in a rut. You need to make a decision I think that Marriage Counseling would be very beneficial and you are an adult much to old to think about what others think of you! this is your marriage you married for better or worse this may be the worse but you can work to make it better! I think you need to refocus your priorities alittle here is all and then things may fall into place good luck!~Chrissy

[lillygirl]

You folks have given me some things to think about. BTW, it's not me so much as hubby that doesn't want to give the rumor mill more fodder, but I do sympathize. I don't have to work there--he does.

 

jwi71--

Perhaps if you adopted a less judgmental and more neutral tone you could be more helpful. I understand your assertion, but the others made the same point without being confrontational.

 

Thanks all.

[reddog63]

Hello all,

 

I'm new to this forum, and after reading several posts, I think this is the place to get some input. My husband and I will be celebrating our 22nd anniversary in a couple of weeks. Neither of us had a prior marriage or child, and we were each other's first real love. We were best friends by the time we married, two years after we met and had gone steady. Seems good, right? Unfortunately there was a lot of dysfunction in both our childhoods that we at first thought brought us closer together but now I see set us up for years of problems. For the first six years, before we decided to have our daughter, we were blissfully happy and carefree. We did what we wanted when we wanted and did it all together. Then in '92 calamity hit--a financial emergency that caused a bankruptcy and the emotional collapse of my husband and best friend, all while I lost my father and learned I was pregnant. My husband never fully recovered from the blow of the bankruptcy and has emotionally withdrawn from the family. I know this is the only way he could deal with it at the time, but it's been so many years. I've had to be the head of household, raise our daughter by myself, listen to his constant worry about money even when none exists, and care for him as if he were my second child, all without a bit of support (except financial) from him. I have wanted to leave so many times, but I know he still loves me. He just can't get over the trauma of '92. His biggest fear was always becoming like his own father and not providing for his family. He always has--he's never been out of work, though he sticks with a job of 20 years that continues to underemploy him. I'm in college now, majoring in psychology, and working toward more independence. Most people will say, "Why not marriage counseling?" While I'm in school we can't afford it and to use his company insurance will start the rumor mill at his work. If anyone knew the place, they'd know that would be *bad*. I can't help but feel the irony, as I thought I was doing all the right things before marriage. I wanted a real marriage, not a sham like my parents. Now I'm in a terrible position. I want to believe it will get better, but it's been so long. We've talked openly about it and he has improved marginally on some things by reading self help books, but I don't think he understands the depth of our problem. He isn't supportive of any of my efforts though he thinks he is, he is the most pessimistic person on earth, and he constantly obsesses about money. He does all this in a very dependent, clingy way and uses guilt when I complain. I don't know what to do while waiting to graduate so we can get some counseling. I've pent up so much resentment I'm afraid things will never be good again. Our daughter is two years from college and I'm two years from a professional career. Two more years is getting short compared with the 16 years I've wanted to leave him. Now I have to make some decisions. Any advice? Thanks in advance.

 

I found this book to be useful. I did not buy it, just read most of it while at the book store.

 

Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay in or Get Out of Your Relationship

It is directed to people who are not sure what to do. Wish you well with your situation.

[jwi71]

jwi71--

Perhaps if you adopted a less judgmental and more neutral tone you could be more helpful. I understand your assertion, but the others made the same point without being confrontational.

 

Thanks all.

 

And if I seem harsh, look at what you basically said:

 

My marriage is in trouble but we can't work on it because:

I am in school

It would be embarrassing to him at work

It is hard work and after all the years I may not feel like it now.

 

Don't blame me for your choices.

You choose school over MC.

You choose pride and vanity over MC.

You are unsure to press forward because of real or perceived injustice.

 

When people have the means to take corrective action and choose otherwise and then proceed to complain about the position they are in - its whining.

 

I call like I see it.

[lillygirl]

Of course... That's what I expected you to think. People who have that communication style often blame others for not being able to take it. Oh well... just wondering why some find it so hard to be civil.

 

Cheers

[carhill]

Any advice?

 

Um, yeah.....get some proper legal advice and get out. Toxic city whoa...

[RecordProducer]

You talk too much. And I talk too much. All women talk too much. Men are visual creatures - so "show" them, don't talk. A man won't believe you until you show him you mean business. You have to try different approaches and see which one works best. Everyone has their weak spot. Forget MC; it's just more talking. Let him know what you will do and then do it.

 

Another thing: start fulfilling your life and making yourself happy. As though your husband doesn't exist. You can't live your life for the day when you graduate. You only live once.

[lillygirl]

start fulfilling your life and making yourself happy. As though your husband doesn't exist. You can't live your life for the day when you graduate. You only live once.

 

Great advice. I don't know why I didn't think of it. I've always been a 'We're in this together' person, but I realize I've moved away from the person I was and became someone I'm not as happy with. Maybe I can get him thinking about who he once was, too. I won't shut him out entirely--yet, but you may be right. If I start living like I want, he may take notice. Thanks RecordProducer.

And thanks for all the feedback, everyone. You've given me lots to consider.

[Wicked Smile]

You talk too much. And I talk too much. Forget MC; it's just more talking. Let him know what you will do and then do it...........................................................

 

Another thing: start fulfilling your life and making yourself happy. As though your husband doesn't exist. You can't live your life for the day when you graduate. You only live once.

 

 

No offense but this is almost a sure fire way of losing her husband and her marriage. Granted I agree women will talk more, in gernal, then men about their feelings and needs, I also want to point out that a man who has hit bottom like he has needs help.

 

It seems as though your husband has been shamed. His nightmare of not providing has come to surface and he isn't doing well in dealing with it. Playing too much the vicitim. He needs to light the fires again and become the man he truly is meant to be or was. Life beat him down...well it's now time for him to fight to get it back.

 

To do this he will need the love and support of his wife and best friend. He will need to realise and see how much leaning he is doing on you and start standing again. You can help him through this by assuring him of the love you have for him and your marriage. That somehow you need him to do this. Not because you are being smoothered but because you need the man you married back. He will feel needed. He will feel he needs to fix this. And only he can fix it, but in reality you are helping him reach the starting platform to recovery, an unsung hero of sorts. MC can help to a degree, if you work through it. But mainly he is going to need you to really reach him. Every man has a vulnerable spot that a true love manages to find at least once. It's a no BS zone that taps directly into his heart. I am sure you found it once...seek it out again and so he can hear you. Right now his doubts and insecurity are blocking you.

[Mr. Lucky]

But mainly he is going to need you to really reach him. Every man has a vulnerable spot that a true love manages to find at least once. It's a no BS zone that taps directly into his heart. I am sure you found it once...seek it out again and so he can hear you. Right now his doubts and insecurity are blocking you.

I disagree. You can't reach out to or save someone that doesn't want to be connected or saved. As long as the OP's husband continues to undermine the marriage and any progress towards fixing it, she should focus on herself and her child. Her best hope is to push him towards IC as a step to counseling together...

 

Mr. Lucky

[jwi71]

I disagree. You can't reach out to or save someone that doesn't want to be connected or saved. As long as the OP's husband continues to undermine the marriage and any progress towards fixing it, she should focus on herself and her child. Her best hope is to push him towards IC as a step to counseling together...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I disagree on the IC. They desperately need MC. And I think from what has been posted that an MC can affect real and positive change.

 

Yes, he has issues. Yes, IC will help. But now, right now, they M is in trouble.

 

The OP is actively avoiding help. She has, in her words, pent up resentment over the years which is another impediment. I think we have an OP who is conflicted about saving the M or not. I am concerned about their choices in terms of saving the M, the continued delays and her attitude towards the M.

 

I, for one, hope shes cuts back on school or whatever and goes. She just might save her M and get the "old hubby" back.

[lillygirl]

WickedSmile and Mr. Lucky,

 

You have both hit on points I have been debating for years--to make a clean break and new life for myself and my daughter or to help a friend in need. Our relationship is stronger than the average marriage or friendship, but where does my responsibility to him end and to me begin. I've read about relationships that become so enmeshed it becomes dysfunctional. I'm not sure I'm there yet, but I don't think I'm far off. He knows the loyalty I feel for him, and to give him credit, he holds the same for me. He has never betrayed my confidence or trust in any way. But he has no relationship with his own daughter even though we have always lived together, and I feel responsible for his well-being as I would a child. It's definitely an unequal marriage. If I were controlling and dominating I would be in heaven, but I want an equal partner to share the burdens of everyday life, and it makes me angry and frustrated. I count myself lucky that I have the inner strength to carry the burden of our family, but I also want my partner back. I don't even know what it's like to share a concern or craft a goal with another anymore.

 

As to RecordProducer's advice, I think it will help if I start being myself again, not excluding him, but just not having his welfare as my first concern (along with my daughter). I fear I've been enabling him with my reluctant willingness to head the family. Perhaps if I start treating him like a separate individual again instead of my dependent it may spark something. I think I need to pull away, not completely, but enough for him to see he is responsible for himself. I will do this carefully but firmly while letting him know I'm still here in the capacity of partner, not mother.

 

Thanks guys.

 

Yes, jwi71, you have it exact. I am very conflicted.

[Athena]

I don't know if your college has it, but mine did -- the grad school which teaches marital counseling offers MC on a graded scale according to your income. Ask about it.

 

Also for you -- universities have psychologists available to counsel students. have you looked into these options?

[jwi71]

And we are back to where I began.

 

What do YOU want?

[soserious1]

Your daughter is legally an adult now? For me the answer would be simple, divorce time, you've done your duty,raised the child you produced together, time now for each of you to reclaim your lives and your own happiness.

[lillygirl]

And we are back to where I began.

 

What do YOU want?

 

I think I'll know better when I see his reaction to reclaiming myself. If there's any hope, I'll take it. If he refuses to come along, I'll let go. I'm beginning to form in my mind what it is I want and how to get it. No illusions or unrealistic obligations--not anymore.

 

Thanks.

[RecordProducer]

No offense but this is almost a sure fire way of losing her husband and her marriage.

The best way of getting someone back is to forget about them. THAT is when they jump back on their feet and start making effort to re-enter your life. This strategy has proven to work.

 

Every man has a vulnerable spot that a true love manages to find at least once. It's a no BS zone that taps directly into his heart.

You can disarm someone by showing your love for them and may soften up, but only for as long as you're showing your love. However, they will not have the urge to change for as long as you're rewarding their behavior with love, understanding, and affection. Moroever, she will develop resentment when she sees that she's showing love and understanding while he's changing nothing. Of course, it's good to try to talk, but I am sure she's tried that many times.

 

Anyway, this is just my experience. I can see that you're thinking ina very noble manner, but some people just aren't noble in their thinking and feeling process.

[jwi71]

I think I'll know better when I see his reaction to reclaiming myself. If there's any hope, I'll take it. If he refuses to come along, I'll let go. I'm beginning to form in my mind what it is I want and how to get it. No illusions or unrealistic obligations--not anymore.

 

Thanks.

 

You need to decide for YOU and only YOU. Do not cede control or the decision to him or his reactions. That is, in fact, not making a decision at all. YOU either try and fix the marriage or you do not. It is not up to him. Its up to YOU.

 

You two IMO are good candidates for MC. I think it would help you both. You CAN work on YOU and the M simultaneously.

 

Whatever you decide - do it for you.

 

I hope you find a resolution you can live with.

[lillygirl]

I hope you find a resolution you can live with.

 

I'll keep all in mind. You make very valid points. Thanks for the kind words.