Man's Job to Pursue?

[tincanman99]

In this, you're wrong, at least for some women. Some of us want a more aggressive/assertive man who knows what he wants. It's like consistent positive reinforcement. Positive feeds positive. It's difficult to explain.

 

The same thing could be said for women about wanting an aggressive/assertive woman that knows what she wants. I have seen far to many times women who lead men, are wishy washy in what they want. Unless I get a positive signal from a woman I will not pursue her. Why should I when I dont get any feedback? A lot of them are like this.

 

You've ignored the first sentences of my comments, which should make it self-explanatory.

 

The constant being me? Thats pretty funny . The one constant is that there is no constant .

[Trialbyfire]

The same thing could be said for women about wanting an aggressive/assertive woman that knows what she wants. I have seen far to many times women who lead men, are wishy washy in what they want. Unless I get a positive signal from a woman I will not pursue her. Why should I when I dont get any feedback? A lot of them are like this.

If this is what you want, then go for it. If you go back to my previous posts within this thread, then it's all good, as long as people are willing to be patient about what they want. If you get no hits, then it's time to self-examine your wants.

 

The constant being me? Thats pretty funny . The one constant is that there is no constant .

It's far easier to blanket all women, ain't it...

[fivefive]

I've had experiences where I will make 1st contact and be the aggressor and I could tell that the woman felt as if I was being too needy. This is what scares me about being the aggressor. They tell you they would rather have the man do it but then when he does they are too needy.

[Trialbyfire]

I've had experiences where I will make 1st contact and be the aggressor and I could tell that the woman felt as if I was being too needy. This is what scares me about being the aggressor. They tell you they would rather have the man do it but then when he does they are too needy.

Being the aggressor or more assertive one, doesn't guarantee that rejection isn't going to happen. For the guys that can brush off rejection like it's no big deal, then this style will work for them. For the guys who have issues with rejection, you've either got to learn to brush it off or you're going to have to wait for a girl who will be the aggressor. Be very patient for the latter.

[Kamille]

I've had experiences where I will make 1st contact and be the aggressor and I could tell that the woman felt as if I was being too needy. This is what scares me about being the aggressor. They tell you they would rather have the man do it but then when he does they are too needy.

 

 

It's strange though, because people use the words "pursue" and "chase", but I wouldn't call it pursuing or chasing at all. I've always just felt that a man needs to initiate social contact, but then just get to know her. As soon as I changed my mentality from impressing women, to just getting to know and building a (romantic) connection with women, it became so much easier and more fun. So I guess in the end I'd say it's the man's job to initiate, to be distinguished from pursuing or chasing.

 

The risk of seeming needy is also implied when women try to impress guys. So I can totally relate with what ICB posted here: my love life improved when I stopped trying to impress men and started getting to know them instead.

 

You can't win 'em all Fivefive. Just go out and enjoy yourself and forget about picking up women for a few nights. Meet people. Have fun. Chill.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

So I can totally relate with what ICB posted here: my love life improved when I stopped trying to impress men and started getting to know them instead.

 

 

I think this is some simple, yet very good advice. Your approach to dating can make all the difference not only in outcomes, but also in how much you enjoy the game.

[edinsvet]

YES! It is the man's job to pursue

If he doesn't pursue move on

or you are asking for Trouble and Pain

[movingonandon]

Depends on how you define "pursue".

Asking girls out, calling them with plans, etc. sure - they can take it or leave it.

Actually "pursuing" a girl until she "hopefully" swings my way - hell no.

 

But, I've had the most success in relationships where the woman has made the first step. Which has ranged from a wink on match.com to showing up at my place with no underwear.

 

So, the point is that if a girl likes you it doesn't matter what you do (even if its nothing), and if she doesn't like you - it also absolutely does not matter what you'll do. With that in mind, I'm all for the man doing the pursit, but it should be a very moderate and low-cost pursit.

[canigetanswers]

It's the man's job to pursue. That's the way it is. I think it would be nice for things to be even, that way guys wouldn't be the only ones whose entire character was judged based on some social skills and interactions that are actually quite difficult to maser. What I'm saying is, if women pursued more, then men would raise their standards. A really pretty girl who's really shy can easily get a date. A really handsome guy, in turn, who's really shy won't get a date for a long time. Why? Because women will say he has no confidence and write him off simply for not having the skills to approach. It would be a better world if a standard like this applied to both genders, or better yet none at all.

 

But hey, complaining will do shy guys no good. As they say, if you can't beat em', join em'. You've just gotta learn these skills. In the initial stages of attraction, women just need to put up a good appearance while guys need to do something much deeper. It's like the difference between making a visual advertisement to sell a product and putting on a presentation in front of many important and influential people to sell it. While some thought is put into the advertisement, it's done in a private and comfortable environment. Feedback can easily be received without testing it in a real world situation. Giving a presentation needs charisma, guile, and an element of appearance.

 

Now apply these things to dating. A woman can sit in front of the mirror before she goes out and prepare her appearance to attract men. Once she's done that, all she really needs to do is put herself out there and wait. A guy doesn't need to prepare his looks that much, but when he goes out and wants to meet women, he needs to have his game ready and polished. The woman is going to feel attracted to him based on how he talks and acts. His looks play a factor also, but an attractive guy who's a total dud will only get anywhere with women who are total duds as well.

 

This is just the way it is. The first thing that turns a guy on is a girl's looks, so all a girl needs to do to attract a guy is to look good (that doesn't mean she'll keep him attracted, but if she looks good she will be approached). A girl will need a lot more to be turned on, though, and unfortunately they're pretty particular about it. You can be a top scientist in your field, but all your knowledge will not turn on a woman. What will turn her on is the confidence and wit that complements your intellect. A lot of smart guys, unfortunately, don't have these complements, so all their intellect and accomplishments really mean nothing to a woman if they don't have the social skills to accompany it.

 

Yeah, this is unfair, but you've just gotta learn it. Look at me...up until I was 15 I rarely uttered a word. I wasn't born with the social skills that many others were. Just like some people aren't born with a genes that encourage intellect, good looks, or athletic ability, other's aren't born with social skills. They can't read people, they get nervous and anxious in social settings, they prefer to be alone, etc. But like most other traits, our lack of natural advantageous traits can be compensated for with nurture and growth, but in order to do that the individual must put forth a lot more effort than everyone else to improve a trait, and they must accept that fact without holding any grudge or frustration towards life for being unfair.

 

Oh, and about men not liking when women pursue them...I agree with someone else who said that it's usually because the man never had much interest to begin with. If my crush asked me out, I would not be turned off at all. If a girl who I thought was kinda cute but not that attractive asked me out, I may or may not accept, but I would definitely know that things wouldn't last very long.

 

 

i agree with most of it....until the last sentence....u are quite superficial arent u? saying u "definitely know that things wouldn't last very long" because she's nt that attractive.

[canigetanswers]

You brought up paying for dates as an example of the archaic traditions women still value in dating, just as the man pursuing is another example. And you don't seem to like them. Yet, you are looking for a traditional wife. If you want a traditional wife, then you should be more than happy to comply with traditional courtship roles and vice versa.

 

the thing is that non-traditional girls still expect the guys to pay for dates and initiate..because some are still wary of their reputation

 

 

what's SAH anyway?

[Ruby Slippers]

Women don’t do it simply because they don’t have to and most aren't innately aggressors.

I am a very driven and assertive person, and I love going after what I want. I do not chase men, though, simply because pretty much across the board, women are not rewarded for chasing men. Also, men are socialized to be assertive and aggressive, and women are socialized to be receptive and agreeable. I think it would be fun if the tables were turned for a while. I'd love to waltz into my favorite jazz club and strike it up with any guy who caught my fancy. I mean, just picture a club where the women are on the prowl and the men are waiting to be approached. It's a pretty fun thought. But all our myths and fairy tales and pop culture feel-good undercurrents presuppose male pursuit of the female. Turning it around is still too revolutionary to be effective. And really, given simple biology, I doubt it will ever change.

[carhill]

what's SAH anyway?

 

SAH = stay at home (wife)

[IrishCarBomb]

I'd love to waltz into my favorite jazz club and strike it up with any guy who caught my fancy.

 

Wait... you feel that even striking up conversation is too aggressive for women?

[SoulSearch_CO]

I will join those women that have experience in pursuing and having it turn out BAD. I have too many stories to pick from. But ever since my separation and then divorce, I have taken a more passive approach to dating (let them pursue) and it is a whole lot better and feels natural.

 

One very important point that I think is being ignored is BIOLOGY. I mentioned it in my previous post. But in the majority of species, it is the male that pursues the female, and she chooses from her pursuers. Testosterone in the male makes the male aggressive and more likely to seek out mating opportunities. I know it's more complex in our society since we as a species have "just sex" and then actual serious relationships or lifelong mates. But think of it in simple terms. Why do you think sexual assaults against women by men are a lot more common than the other way around? Aggression. Testosterone. Not just the getting hard thing...because I have certainly heard stories of men being raped by a group of women and he got it up just fine, but then later reported it to police.

 

I wish I could find a study because I would find it highly interesting, but I would almost bet that women that are more aggressive on the dating scene have higher testosterone in their bodies.

 

Telling a normal, healthy woman that has the biological impulse given to her by NATURE to be the selector to get off her rear and start being the pursuer is like telling me to start producing sperm. It goes against nature. It doesn't have a thing to do with the women being lazy or power-hungry - it's plain and simple science. It actually kind of annoys me that women are being questioned for obeying their biological urges.

 

But you know what? This very thread shows me that this article is OH SO TRUE: Males of all species becoming more feminine.

[VivaciousSoul]

It's the man's job to pursue. That's the way it is. I think it would be nice for things to be even, that way guys wouldn't be the only ones whose entire character was judged based on some social skills and interactions that are actually quite difficult to maser. What I'm saying is, if women pursued more, then men would raise their standards. A really pretty girl who's really shy can easily get a date. A really handsome guy, in turn, who's really shy won't get a date for a long time. Why? Because women will say he has no confidence and write him off simply for not having the skills to approach. It would be a better world if a standard like this applied to both genders, or better yet none at all.

 

But hey, complaining will do shy guys no good. As they say, if you can't beat em', join em'. You've just gotta learn these skills. In the initial stages of attraction, women just need to put up a good appearance while guys need to do something much deeper. It's like the difference between making a visual advertisement to sell a product and putting on a presentation in front of many important and influential people to sell it. While some thought is put into the advertisement, it's done in a private and comfortable environment. Feedback can easily be received without testing it in a real world situation. Giving a presentation needs charisma, guile, and an element of appearance.

 

Now apply these things to dating. A woman can sit in front of the mirror before she goes out and prepare her appearance to attract men. Once she's done that, all she really needs to do is put herself out there and wait. A guy doesn't need to prepare his looks that much, but when he goes out and wants to meet women, he needs to have his game ready and polished. The woman is going to feel attracted to him based on how he talks and acts. His looks play a factor also, but an attractive guy who's a total dud will only get anywhere with women who are total duds as well.

 

This is just the way it is. The first thing that turns a guy on is a girl's looks, so all a girl needs to do to attract a guy is to look good (that doesn't mean she'll keep him attracted, but if she looks good she will be approached). A girl will need a lot more to be turned on, though, and unfortunately they're pretty particular about it. You can be a top scientist in your field, but all your knowledge will not turn on a woman. What will turn her on is the confidence and wit that complements your intellect. A lot of smart guys, unfortunately, don't have these complements, so all their intellect and accomplishments really mean nothing to a woman if they don't have the social skills to accompany it.

 

Yeah, this is unfair, but you've just gotta learn it. Look at me...up until I was 15 I rarely uttered a word. I wasn't born with the social skills that many others were. Just like some people aren't born with a genes that encourage intellect, good looks, or athletic ability, other's aren't born with social skills. They can't read people, they get nervous and anxious in social settings, they prefer to be alone, etc. But like most other traits, our lack of natural advantageous traits can be compensated for with nurture and growth, but in order to do that the individual must put forth a lot more effort than everyone else to improve a trait, and they must accept that fact without holding any grudge or frustration towards life for being unfair.

 

Oh, and about men not liking when women pursue them...I agree with someone else who said that it's usually because the man never had much interest to begin with. If my crush asked me out, I would not be turned off at all. If a girl who I thought was kinda cute but not that attractive asked me out, I may or may not accept, but I would definitely know that things wouldn't last very long.

 

Yes, I registered just to say this

 

The point about making a visual advertisement versus putting on a presentation to sell something. I think it's a very good analogy. I feel like it's always something I kind of felt was true but I've never thought of something so appropriate to compare it to.

 

I guess men are more easily to convince impulse buyers in that they see something and they want it. Perfect way to be sold garbage. Women want to be more convinced that they are getting a good product. Although it's not impossible that a product with the best presentation ever is a shoddy product and the one with less fireworks is actually a quality product.

[VivaciousSoul]

It seems like there is a lot of "it absolutely has to be this way, no exceptions!" in this thread. I think a more moderate stance is fairer. The job of pursing belongs to whoever wants to do it. It's true that the majority of the time the men will be the ones doing the pursing but to say that it's their job exclusively, I think leans more to the emotional side of the spectrum (that is with the logical side on the other end and a mix in the middle).

 

It's fine to be able to recall personal experiences of trying something and it turning out bad. But for every story that one has, there is a counter male point of view story. Maybe what some of you experienced when you say it turned out bad is what men experience all the time when they pursue. It just seemed like a harsh, bad experience because it was foreign. I'm sure you know that males get turned down all the time. There's just much less leeway to say "Man! I tried pursuing and it turned out bad! I'm going to let the women doing the pursuing from here on out."

 

I also have to echo the sentiment that if a sane man is attracted to a woman, then there's no way that her showing interest is seen as a bad thing. I guarantee you that we are not so stupid as to say "Geez, I was kind of feeling that lady I just met but since she said hi I don't know no more, I might have to find somebody else who doesn't give me eye contact, answers everything with one word answers, and fakes like she didn't hear something that I clearly said loud and clear and in her ear"

(err, not speaking from first hand experience there actually... haha, yeah... I'm serious though, really I am)

 

Finally I guess what I'm saying is try to see things from both points of view instead of just the initial and innate one.

[kashmir]

Yes, I registered just to say this

 

The point about making a visual advertisement versus putting on a presentation to sell something. I think it's a very good analogy. I feel like it's always something I kind of felt was true but I've never thought of something so appropriate to compare it to.

 

I guess men are more easily to convince impulse buyers in that they see something and they want it. Perfect way to be sold garbage. Women want to be more convinced that they are getting a good product. Although it's not impossible that a product with the best presentation ever is a shoddy product and the one with less fireworks is actually a quality product.

 

Well now that you mentioned it, I don't think my analogy holds water in the way you said it. I would think WOMEN would generally be impulse buyers while men need more convincing to buy something. I would say that in most aspects, women are generally more impulsive and easier to convince than men. Dating is an exception to this. I have an idea why this is, but I don't want to send this thread off on a tangent.

[VivaciousSoul]

Well now that you mentioned it, I don't think my analogy holds water in the way you said it. I would think WOMEN would generally be impulse buyers while men need more convincing to buy something. I would say that in most aspects, women are generally more impulsive and easier to convince than men. Dating is an exception to this. I have an idea why this is, but I don't want to send this thread off on a tangent.

 

Wait, aren't we talking about within the concept of dating? I didn't think that we were talking about actual stuff that we literally buy, like clothes and stuff.

 

You know how many women would be so out of luck and driven insane if things couldn't be returned to the store? :lmao: Not that I'd want to subject them to such torture but I'd at least like to know the effect it would have if this was put in to place of a certain amount of time.

 

...

 

Umm, wait I mean, I wasn't trying to derail the thread or anything...

 

err I mean, men and women... pursuing each other... and stuff...

 

yeah, pursuit

[sumdude]

I understand the frustration, but we are 4 respondants on this thread alone who have said that they've learned from experience that pursuing a guy usually backfires. I chased this guy once. Asked him out. He was flattered. Loved the attention. We went out for six months. And he was NEVER able to commit to me - BECAUSE I had chased him. Plus he acted like the fact I had chased him put me at an automatic disadvantage (oh you like me so much but I'm not sure how I feel about you). So when we say that we know from experience that pursuing a man usually doesn't work, believe me, it isn't all about avoiding rejection. It's about men making assumptions about your character and your 'value' because of it.

 

 

OK, so you tried this once.. maybe twice? Well, now you a taste of what it's like from the other side. We guys go through this over and over until we finally find something that works. All the flaky non returned phone calls.. the "let's just be friends', the date no shows etc etc

 

So I can certainly understand why women prefer to be pursued. Because they can. That's just the way it is.

[Benique]

Fivefive,

it very much depends on the kind of relationship the two do already have .

Is it a friendship already getting closer ?

Is it just an acquaintance ?

and so on ..

 

 

The main is here that when a guy starts contacting showing his sympathy for the girl, then the girl would be more daring with him ...as girls are mostly inwarded even if they behave otherwise .

I myself would make first steps , though afterwards I need many reassurances he is really in ...

It`s individual in each and every relationship with each and every person,you know ..

 

 

I guess, there is No girl anywhere on the Earth who would not like a guy to start first , so beware ....and have the best of luck,dear !

[refurb]

I will join those women that have experience in pursuing and having it turn out BAD.

 

That makes me laugh!

 

You think pursuing is supposed to be easy? What a few guys reject you and you give up?

 

And of course being passive feels better and more natural. That's true about everything in life!

 

RF

[zdheat]

OK, so you tried this once.. maybe twice? Well, now you a taste of what it's like from the other side. We guys go through this over and over until we finally find something that works. All the flaky non returned phone calls.. the "let's just be friends', the date no shows etc etc

 

So I can certainly understand why women prefer to be pursued. Because they can. That's just the way it is.

 

The average woman has no clue of the amount of bs the average guy has to put up with in order to get a date. I typically have to go through 10-15 rejections before getting a "yes". You have to play the numbers game (sad, but true). They get rejected once and try to apply that situation as the rule. The last girl I dated approached me and called me first after exchanging numbers which was a nice change.

[norajane]

The average woman has no clue of the amount of bs the average guy has to put up with in order to get a date. I typically have to go through 10-15 rejections before getting a "yes". You have to play the numbers game (sad, but true). They get rejected once and try to apply that situation as the rule. The last girl I dated approached me and called me first after exchanging numbers which was a nice change.

 

You guys either haven't read the thread or are deliberately ignoring all the women who have said it's not rejection that bothers us. We don't care if a guy says no when we ask him out.

 

The problems start after a guy says YES and we enter a relationship with them - those relationships do not work out, in our experience, and are horrible the whole time we're in them.

[movingonandon]

You guys either haven't read the thread or are deliberately ignoring all the women who have said it's not rejection that bothers us. We don't care if a guy says no when we ask him out.

 

The problems start after a guy says YES and we enter a relationship with them - those relationships do not work out, in our experience, and are horrible the whole time we're in them.

 

Maybe they don't work for you, but they work for us just fine

[BentSpine]

I agree that there is probably a connection between testosterone and aggressiveness, but that social conditioning is an even stronger cause of aggressiveness.