Man's Job to Pursue?

[Star Gazer]

It's strange though, because people use the words "pursue" and "chase", but I wouldn't call it pursuing or chasing at all. I've always just felt that a man needs to initiate social contact, but then just get to know her. As soon as I changed my mentality from impressing women, to just getting to know and building a (romantic) connection with women, it became so much easier and more fun. So I guess in the end I'd say it's the man's job to initiate, to be distinguished from pursuing or chasing.

 

Yes, great attitude. I heart ICB.

[SoulSearch_CO]

Yes, definitely the man's job to initiate first. I like assertive guys and being pursued is a compliment. I respond equally if I like a guy. If a guy is pursuing me that I'm not interested in, I can very tastefully and honestly tell him that I'm not interested.

 

Seriously, the thought of contacting a guy first makes me feel really stupid. If he likes me, why isn't he contacting ME? Traditionally, men are the pursuers and women are the selectors. I think biology backs this one up, but that's JMO. There's a reason guys have testosterone. Use it.

[fivefive]

yea all that's true. but sometimes i just wish women would contact us men first

[Kamille]

I've also learned most men don't respond well to being pursued, this from experience (not old-fashioned education. Unless, of course, we want to consider that both genders are being brainwashed into the pursuer-pursuee roles).

 

I will let a guy pursue me until one of two things start happening: 1) I lose interest in him (meaning, I realize the two of us aren't going anywhere). In this case I will turn the guy down 2) I start falling for the guy (because we've started developing a bond). In this case, I will start initiating more and the dynamics usually go from "dating" to "relationship".

 

The point is, as long as she responds well to your advances, you're still in the runnings. So keep pursuing.

[Wicked Smile]

Not necessarily, but most likely you'll have to. At the very least, you have to make it obvious that you like her in some way. My recommendation is make it obvious, put yourself out there, and then let her react. If she doesn't move on to someone who does.

 

Put yourself in a woman's shoes for a day. Most women (unless they are extremely unattractive) have men hitting on them pretty regularly, with the more attractive ones probably are hit on every time they go out in public. They have no motivation to be proactive when it comes to establishing relationships because they know men are readily available and already willing to be proactive.

 

There are also many women that are still taught and/or believe that a man should do all the pursuing. Now whether women who only want the men to do the initial pursuing find better partners than a more proactive woman is another argument completely.

 

 

 

Because they were raised that way and are old-fashioned (they believe that's the way it should be), they have more options (i.e., men hitting on them constantly), or they fear rejection.

 

 

 

Ideally, yes, but it never works that way. Whoever wants the relationship more or sees more potential will probably be doing more of the contacting. Usually (at least IME) guys have to do most of the initial work, even if the woman has more interest. After the relationship becomes more established, however, I've found it varies.

 

If you have to do all of the work even after the relationship is established, you'll have to reevaluate if you want that type of woman or find someone who will be a more equal partner.

 

 

In the past I would tend to agree that the man should step up. But seeing as the entire world has grown from a man's world to a more level playing field...jobs, rights, custody of kids, stress...etc etc. I'd actaully say if you like a guy and he isn't all gung ho persuing you then get off your heinie and get him!

 

Never ceases to amaze me how women state all the things they wish men would be but forget that men has his own needs and maybe wants the same or simlar from a woman.

 

There are great guys who are shy out there. First woman to discover them wins!! Some men are have been fed up with rejection...first woman to persue them wins!! etc etc. You get the point. In this day and age of women not being Susie Homemaker I'd say then play the game equally as a man is expected to play. The main reason I feel women do not do this is because men have dealt with far more rejection in this arena than women when you crunch the numbers and so women aren't wanting or feel incapable of dealing with rejection.

 

Funny story to drive this home. I had a best friend who's GF was wanting to break up with him to gain freedom and a whole laundry list of things she was "needing". Was most likely another man. So before she actually built up the nerve to do it he bit his lip and broke the whole thing off. Now she is wanting to come back bad. Why? Because she was rejected. Rejection does a funny thing to anyone..man or woman. Suddenly because HE broke things off with her she feels this need or dersire to come back and for him to "want her". Such a weird concept.

[Kamille]

In the past I would tend to agree that the man should step up. But seeing as the entire world has grown from a man's world to a more level playing field...jobs, rights, custody of kids, stress...etc etc. I'd actaully say if you like a guy and he isn't all gung ho persuing you then get off your heinie and get him!

 

Never ceases to amaze me how women state all the things they wish men would be but forget that men has his own needs and maybe wants the same or simlar from a woman.

 

There are great guys who are shy out there. First woman to discover them wins!! Some men are have been fed up with rejection...first woman to persue them wins!! etc etc. You get the point. In this day and age of women not being Susie Homemaker I'd say then play the game equally as a man is expected to play. The main reason I feel women do not do this is because men have dealt with far more rejection in this arena than women when you crunch the numbers and so women aren't wanting or feel incapable of dealing with rejection.

 

Funny story to drive this home. I had a best friend who's GF was wanting to break up with him to gain freedom and a whole laundry list of things she was "needing". Was most likely another man. So before she actually built up the nerve to do it he bit his lip and broke the whole thing off. Now she is wanting to come back bad. Why? Because she was rejected. Rejection does a funny thing to anyone..man or woman. Suddenly because HE broke things off with her she feels this need or dersire to come back and for him to "want her". Such a weird concept.

 

Just because I no longer pursue doesn't mean I didn't use to pursue or don't know what rejection feels like. (Rejection hurts a lot more when you've actually been on a few dates with the person).

 

I understand the frustration, but we are 4 respondants on this thread alone who have said that they've learned from experience that pursuing a guy usually backfires. I chased this guy once. Asked him out. He was flattered. Loved the attention. We went out for six months. And he was NEVER able to commit to me - BECAUSE I had chased him. Plus he acted like the fact I had chased him put me at an automatic disadvantage (oh you like me so much but I'm not sure how I feel about you). So when we say that we know from experience that pursuing a man usually doesn't work, believe me, it isn't all about avoiding rejection. It's about men making assumptions about your character and your 'value' because of it.

 

So, if you want to change the world, don't just target women. Both genders would need to approach dating differently. Next time a man has a one night stand, how about he not automatically assume the woman he slept with isn't worth his time?

[tincanman99]

Someone please explain to me why the woman pursuing the guy is wrong? I keep reading people saying this but I dont get it.

 

The only advantage to letting the man pursue the woman is that it puts the woman in control. She controls who she will see and sleep with its.

 

So in a nutshell its about power and control. And they dont want to give that up.

[Green]

No its not a mans job to pursue. But if you like a girl she may not even notice you or like you until you start pursueing her. And even if she pursues you your going to have to step up and pursue her back. I think fear of rejection to the point of inaction is a cripling thing in all areas of a persons life not just the romantic ones.

[Kamille]

Someone please explain to me why the woman pursuing the guy is wrong? I keep reading people saying this but I dont get it.

 

The only advantage to letting the man pursue the woman is that it puts the woman in control. She controls who she will see and sleep with its.

 

So in a nutshell its about power and control. And they dont want to give that up.

 

I disagree, it isn't all about power and control - or even all about SEX believe it or not.

 

Please listen to what we've experienced before comforting yourselves with "gender war" assumptions.

 

Nothing I love more then quoting myself:

 

I understand the frustration, but we are 4 respondants on this thread alone who have said that they've learned from experience that pursuing a guy usually backfires. I chased this guy once. Asked him out. He was flattered. Loved the attention. We went out for six months. And he was NEVER able to commit to me - BECAUSE I had chased him. Plus he acted like the fact I had chased him put me at an automatic disadvantage (oh you like me so much but I'm not sure how I feel about you). So when we say that we know from experience that pursuing a man usually doesn't work, believe me, it isn't all about avoiding rejection. It's about men making assumptions about your character and your 'value' because of it.

 

 

But you're free to continue feeling this is all part of a conspiracy against men. Good luck with that!

[fral945]

In the past I would tend to agree that the man should step up. But seeing as the entire world has grown from a man's world to a more level playing field...jobs, rights, custody of kids, stress...etc etc. I'd actaully say if you like a guy and he isn't all gung ho persuing you then get off your heinie and get him!

 

Some women do it, but it's definitely a minority. I agree they should, if they really want equal treatment. But no matter how much equality women achieve in every other aspect of life, by their actions they have shown me that they do not want equal treatment in the romantic arena.

 

In this day and age of women not being Susie Homemaker I'd say then play the game equally as a man is expected to play.

 

Unfortunately the game is not equal. We are still expected to pay for dates and open doors, even though those things are archaic in the modern world. Until enough men stop doing it, however, we have no choice but to pander to women, otherwise we’ll never get laid and the guys doing it will.

 

The main reason I feel women do not do this is because men have dealt with far more rejection in this arena than women when you crunch the numbers and so women aren't wanting or feel incapable of dealing with rejection.

 

Women don’t do it simply because they don’t have to and most aren't innately aggressors.

[Green]

Someone please explain to me why the woman pursuing the guy is wrong? I keep reading people saying this but I dont get it.

 

The only advantage to letting the man pursue the woman is that it puts the woman in control. She controls who she will see and sleep with its.

 

So in a nutshell its about power and control. And they dont want to give that up.

 

theres alot more power and control in making things happen by being the one who starts the conversation rather then just being some one who hopes to get a conversation started with.

[fral945]

I chased this guy once. Asked him out. He was flattered. Loved the attention. We went out for six months. And he was NEVER able to commit to me - BECAUSE I had chased him. Plus he acted like the fact I had chased him put me at an automatic disadvantage (oh you like me so much but I'm not sure how I feel about you). So when we say that we know from experience that pursuing a man usually doesn't work, believe me, it isn't all about avoiding rejection. It's about men making assumptions about your character and your 'value' because of it.

 

In your situation, it's more likely he felt lukewarm attraction to begin with, not simply because you chased him. The only thing you can take from a guy chasing you is that he finds you physically attractive. Whether or not he will commit is a whole 'nother story.

[Kamille]

In your situation, it's more likely he felt lukewarm attraction to begin with, not simply because you chased him. The only thing you can take from a guy chasing you is that he finds you physically attractive. Whether or not he will commit is a whole 'nother story.

 

This totally dovetails into what I'm saying. I've found a guy's attraction increases when he has to fight for me a little harder. I wish it were different Fral, but it has been my experience that making a man pursue you usually yields better results then pursuing. One of the best results is fending off the guys who find you attractive enough to sleep with, but aren't drawn to you in that relationship kind of way.

[Green]

In your situation, it's more likely he felt lukewarm attraction to begin with, not simply because you chased him. The only thing you can take from a guy chasing you is that he finds you physically attractive. Whether or not he will commit is a whole 'nother story.

 

chasing will lead to rejection. But its not the chasing that leads to the rejection its the fact that for most people you will miss much more than you hit (baseball analogy) but you have to swing if you ever want to hit the ball

[norajane]

Just because I no longer pursue doesn't mean I didn't use to pursue or don't know what rejection feels like. (Rejection hurts a lot more when you've actually been on a few dates with the person).

 

I understand the frustration, but we are 4 respondants on this thread alone who have said that they've learned from experience that pursuing a guy usually backfires. I chased this guy once. Asked him out. He was flattered. Loved the attention. We went out for six months. And he was NEVER able to commit to me - BECAUSE I had chased him. Plus he acted like the fact I had chased him put me at an automatic disadvantage (oh you like me so much but I'm not sure how I feel about you). So when we say that we know from experience that pursuing a man usually doesn't work, believe me, it isn't all about avoiding rejection. It's about men making assumptions about your character and your 'value' because of it.

 

So, if you want to change the world, don't just target women. Both genders would need to approach dating differently. Next time a man has a one night stand, how about he not automatically assume the woman he slept with isn't worth his time?

 

Exactly!

 

It has nothing to do with rejection. See cute guy, flirt, ask him out, he says no, big deal.

 

The problems develop when he says YES. And then you're in this relationship where the guy values it less or thinks, wow, she must be soooo into me to ask me out, and then acts accordingly. In those scenarios, the guy was never invested in the girl - if he had been, he'd have asked her out in the first place.

 

Guys always SAY they want women to ask them out, but in practice, the relationships that start out that way don't go very well. What guys MEAN when they say that, is they wish Angelina Jolie would ask them out (or some girl who they've had a hard-on for for a long time). Although, I believe, even if Angelina did ask them out, then they'd value her less because she must be desperate to actually ask them out.

 

There are always exceptions, of course, but not so many as to make it worthwhile to pursue guys.

[norajane]

Unfortunately the game is not equal. We are still expected to pay for dates and open doors, even though those things are archaic in the modern world. Until enough men stop doing it, however, we have no choice but to pander to women, otherwise we’ll never get laid and the guys doing it will.

 

Since you're looking for a SAH wife, then you'd better get used to paying for everything all the time.

[fral945]

This totally dovetails into what I'm saying. I've found a guy's attraction increases when he has to fight for me a little harder. I wish it were different Fral, but it has been my experience that making a man pursue you usually yields better results then pursuing. One of the best results is fending off the guys who find you attractive enough to sleep with, but aren't drawn to you in that relationship kind of way.

 

Let me use myself as an example.

 

I have had 2 girls pursue me that I dated. One girl initially pursued me more so than I did her. She eventually flaked out a few weeks into it, while I, on the other hand, was becoming more interested and that frustrated me. I thought we had something developing.

 

On the other side, I had a woman chase me who I knew about a week into dating her knew it was not going to work. And it only got worse when I got to know her better.

 

In both cases, I was lukewarm at the start. I was interested in one and not the other after learning more about them. So for me, who initiates contact is a moot point.

[fral945]

Since you're looking for a SAH wife, then you'd better get used to paying for everything all the time.

 

How is this related to the topic? No need to take spiteful jabs at other board members. If you want to take issue with me message me directly instead of wasting everyone else's time.

[Trialbyfire]

Someone please explain to me why the woman pursuing the guy is wrong? I keep reading people saying this but I dont get it.

 

The only advantage to letting the man pursue the woman is that it puts the woman in control. She controls who she will see and sleep with its.

 

So in a nutshell its about power and control. And they dont want to give that up.

I strongly encourage you to read IrishCarBomb's post. It's a very healthy attitude to have, instead of assuming that women think like men, in terms of dating.

 

I won't deny that there are some women who love the power game, you speak of. I will vehemently disagree that most women do it for the power and control. If a woman is seriously interested in you and isn't fracked in the head, she's playing for keeps for strangely enough...things like love, trust and respect.

 

So then you say, well all the women I've ever experienced are all about power and control. My response to that is, there's only one constant in the equation. Why are you chasing women who are like this? Why aren't any of these women taking you seriously?

[norajane]

How is this related to the topic? No need to take spiteful jabs at other board members. If you want to take issue with me message me directly instead of wasting everyone else's time.

 

You brought up paying for dates as an example of the archaic traditions women still value in dating, just as the man pursuing is another example. And you don't seem to like them. Yet, you are looking for a traditional wife. If you want a traditional wife, then you should be more than happy to comply with traditional courtship roles and vice versa.

[Kamille]

Let me use myself as an example.

 

I have had 2 girls pursue me that I dated. One girl initially pursued me more so than I did her. She eventually flaked out a few weeks into it, while I, on the other hand, was becoming more interested and that frustrated me. I thought we had something developing.

 

On the other side, I had a woman chase me who I knew about a week into dating her knew it was not going to work. And it only got worse when I got to know her better.

 

In both cases, I was lukewarm at the start. I was interested in one and not the other after learning more about them. So for me, who initiates contact is a moot point.

 

I'm not saying this proves the whole theory as this case is a perticular instance, but ... you started being interested in the girl who was disinvesting herself, as she was pulling away.

 

The same thing worked with the ex I was talking about. The moment I told myself "enough of this bs" and decided to move on, he came out with a fullfledge love declaration. I went back to him but surprise surprise, it didn't work.

 

I can contend that who initiates contact is a moot point. Who pursues, however, isn't one.

[kashmir]

It's the man's job to pursue. That's the way it is. I think it would be nice for things to be even, that way guys wouldn't be the only ones whose entire character was judged based on some social skills and interactions that are actually quite difficult to maser. What I'm saying is, if women pursued more, then men would raise their standards. A really pretty girl who's really shy can easily get a date. A really handsome guy, in turn, who's really shy won't get a date for a long time. Why? Because women will say he has no confidence and write him off simply for not having the skills to approach. It would be a better world if a standard like this applied to both genders, or better yet none at all.

 

But hey, complaining will do shy guys no good. As they say, if you can't beat em', join em'. You've just gotta learn these skills. In the initial stages of attraction, women just need to put up a good appearance while guys need to do something much deeper. It's like the difference between making a visual advertisement to sell a product and putting on a presentation in front of many important and influential people to sell it. While some thought is put into the advertisement, it's done in a private and comfortable environment. Feedback can easily be received without testing it in a real world situation. Giving a presentation needs charisma, guile, and an element of appearance.

 

Now apply these things to dating. A woman can sit in front of the mirror before she goes out and prepare her appearance to attract men. Once she's done that, all she really needs to do is put herself out there and wait. A guy doesn't need to prepare his looks that much, but when he goes out and wants to meet women, he needs to have his game ready and polished. The woman is going to feel attracted to him based on how he talks and acts. His looks play a factor also, but an attractive guy who's a total dud will only get anywhere with women who are total duds as well.

 

This is just the way it is. The first thing that turns a guy on is a girl's looks, so all a girl needs to do to attract a guy is to look good (that doesn't mean she'll keep him attracted, but if she looks good she will be approached). A girl will need a lot more to be turned on, though, and unfortunately they're pretty particular about it. You can be a top scientist in your field, but all your knowledge will not turn on a woman. What will turn her on is the confidence and wit that complements your intellect. A lot of smart guys, unfortunately, don't have these complements, so all their intellect and accomplishments really mean nothing to a woman if they don't have the social skills to accompany it.

 

Yeah, this is unfair, but you've just gotta learn it. Look at me...up until I was 15 I rarely uttered a word. I wasn't born with the social skills that many others were. Just like some people aren't born with a genes that encourage intellect, good looks, or athletic ability, other's aren't born with social skills. They can't read people, they get nervous and anxious in social settings, they prefer to be alone, etc. But like most other traits, our lack of natural advantageous traits can be compensated for with nurture and growth, but in order to do that the individual must put forth a lot more effort than everyone else to improve a trait, and they must accept that fact without holding any grudge or frustration towards life for being unfair.

 

Oh, and about men not liking when women pursue them...I agree with someone else who said that it's usually because the man never had much interest to begin with. If my crush asked me out, I would not be turned off at all. If a girl who I thought was kinda cute but not that attractive asked me out, I may or may not accept, but I would definitely know that things wouldn't last very long.

[tincanman99]

I strongly encourage you to read IrishCarBomb's post. It's a very healthy attitude to have, instead of assuming that women think like men, in terms of dating.

 

I won't deny that there are some women who love the power game, you speak of. I will vehemently disagree that most women do it for the power and control. If a woman is seriously interested in you and isn't fracked in the head, she's playing for keeps for strangely enough...things like love, trust and respect.

 

So then you say, well all the women I've ever experienced are all about power and control. My response to that is, there's only one constant in the equation. Why are you chasing women who are like this? Why aren't any of these women taking you seriously?

 

I read his comment and didnt say women were like men. I realize its not totally about power and control. There may be love, trust and respect but power and control is intertwined in there from day 1. Its not war, its just a fact of life.

 

I didnt understand your comment about why am I chasing women that are like this nor the other one about women taking you seriously?

 

Please explain.

[Star Gazer]

Those men who want the woman to pursue/chase are also the men want a traditional SAHW. They essentially want to do none of the work in the relationship.

[Trialbyfire]

I read his comment and didnt say women were like men. I realize its not totally about power and control. There may be love, trust and respect but power and control is intertwined in there from day 1. Its not war, its just a fact of life.

In this, you're wrong, at least for some women. Some of us want a more aggressive/assertive man who knows what he wants. It's like consistent positive reinforcement. Positive feeds positive. It's difficult to explain.

 

I didnt understand your comment about why am I chasing women that are like this nor the other one about women taking you seriously?

 

Please explain.

You've ignored the first sentences of my comments, which should make it self-explanatory.

 

So then you say, well all the women I've ever experienced are all about power and control. My response to that is, there's only one constant in the equation.