No sex for two years and stuck

[Centuris]

OK, I'm married for coming up on 15 years and have four children in preschool and elementary school age. I have a good job with long hours, and my wife mostly stays at home but does some part time.

 

Things started going downhill between me and my wife approx 7 years ago after our 2nd child was born and she had major depression, likely mostly chemical. Zoloft did the trick after a scary 6 months. Kids are all healthy (and talented, etc.).

 

First, me. I have had character flaws that have caused problems to build up in my marriage over time. The main ones that my wife doesn't like are that I'm not assertive enough, and based on various interactions I have had she has taken to calling me a "wimp", "not a real man", etc. One thing that initially triggered this was politics, like when during Thanksgiving I wouldn't voice my political views in front of other relatives, when my relatives were trashing politicians or causes that my wife and I support. Also, I have had a more permissive attitude towards the children and she has been more rigid, with hot buttons being times like when I would take the kids out to eat fast food (when they had not yet eaten food she had already made), or letting the kids use more computer time than she allows. She gradually stockpiled various grievances and our intimacy kept getting worse and worse, and sex stopped altogether two years ago.

 

There are other reasons for our predicament.

1. I am a bad lover, I never learned how to properly.

2. I have focused on my job and neglected my appearance, and gained about 50 pounds since we married.

3. I did not do enough of the relationship maintenance stuff you're supposed to do in the past to keep your marriage well.

 

Anyway, my wife has her own problems and after reading a few books I decided to myself that she might have Borderline Personality Disorder, but who cares, it is what it is. She has become quite verbally abusive and left the house occasionally in a rage. She may even be seeing someone else, though I have decided not to snoop on her for now (she is on the computer late at night for long hours, and I'm not around to check on her during the day).

 

She has declared that she has no desire whatsoever for me anymore, but wants to stay married for the kids. She has said she would like to have an open marriage and that I am free to go date anyone I like but she doubts anyone will take me.

 

She has had huge fights with our oldest child (a girl) and my daughter has been losing weight and missing school due to illness a lot lately, likely partly from the stress of dealing with mom. I frequently get tearful calls from my daughter at the office, she also calls her grandparents. She told me last night that she hated mommy and wished that I had never met her. I replied that if I hadn't met mommy she would not exist and that even if nothing else good ever happened in my life witho mommy, that my daughter, she or any one of her brothers or sisters, any one of them were worth the price, I would not change my meeting mommy for anything, and that she should not talk like that.

 

What to do. Must support kids. Wife hates me. Love wife, but she despises my loving her. Must work with wife to support kids.

 

I am currently trying to "do a 180" as described by Michelle Weiner-Davis and her list of 32 "do nots" or whatever, and have been blending that with ideas from the "Stop Your Divorce!" book, so when my wife calls to talk to me or when I see her, I try to be pleasant, friendly, and put a good face on things.

 

However, this is not working completely in practice. I frequently find that when I feel that my wife is mistreating the kids, I am compelled to step in and actively disagree with her. Last night she was berating our daughter about having not finished her math homework by 8:30. She also said that her excuse for staying home that day as sick from school was "bull****". I replied point by point while my daughter sank into her chair (I raised my voice unfortunately), specifics may not be important. What I am trying to say is that I feel that occasionally I have to drop the "180" disinterested-type stuff or the "Stop Your Divorce!" jiujitsu "everything's fine" stuff and step in and argue toe to toe my wife with the full force of my personality so that my kids don't have to take the full brunt of her.

 

We have a family counselor but my wife has been neglectful/doesn't want to go/doesn't see problems or they are my fault. The only thing she admits to is that she feels she is trying to break a "generational curse" that caused her own mother to have a bad relationship with her, which is now threatening to be passed on to she and her daughter.

 

So...

I have been a voracious reader of books on relationships over the past year and have been trying to sort out my future strategic plans, and I have a few.

 

1. Put my kids/family and job first (losing my job and having no money would not help), try to work as a team with my wife where possible.

2. I have NEVER been physically active and I need to break time out of my schedule to really get in better shape than I have ever been.

3. Based on all of my wife's declarations and insults against me, I am not going to pursue her (for sex, intimacy, or just to spend more time with her, i.e. won't ask to have "date night"), but I have decided that because of my beliefs I cannot either secretly have affairs nor do I agree to have an "open marriage" even if she likes that.

4. I have decided if I were to catch my wife cheating I will file for divorce, but I have not been trying to catch her at all. Divorcing her with four small kids will wreak havoc on everything I suppose, but I will not allow myself to live with someone who cheats. I am considering getting something to monitor her internet.

5. I am going to try to develop myself (beyond physical), get more adult friends (all those atrophied/gone after my marriage), I have even considered taking an outward bound-type trip hiking alone sometime.

6. If she does not cheat I will allow myself to be locked into this marriage for the next 15 years until all the kids are in college. If she does not decide to reconcile with me (and forgive me for various faults) by that time I will file for separation, and move out. During the year I am separated I will not see anyone, but will wait to see if she has any desire to reconcile. If after 1 year she does not, I will divorce her. Then I will go date or do whatever strikes my fancy, and ride off into the sunset alone.

7. I am going to put myself on a glidepath towards divorce and separation. That sounds like a strange thing to say. I realize divorce and separation sucks, but I am going to actively imagine what it will be like. I will start to do certain other things in preparation. I will get my own personal bank account. I will collect records one would need in a divorce. I will imagine where I would live if I was alone again, even so far as what the furnishings might be like. I will imagine how I will stay in touch with my kids. I will imagine what awkward holidays would be like, for example, if I were to bring a girlfriend (hopefully madly in love with me ) to a family event, awkwardly with my wife there, and how to be fair and supportive to the girlfriend (after all, I am trying to outgrow the wimp label). I will imagine what types of activities I would do by myself after I left and begin doing them NOW. I will go through my belongings (and try to define what "mine" are) and try to decide what I would take with me. I might even start renting a storage unit and move some stuff there in the near future for long-term safekeeping. I am not going to go so far as take pictures out of photo albums, or cut people's faces out of pictures (not that I would ever do anything like that anyway), but after a particularly bad incident I did do something.

8. Last July after an argument my wife blew up, said she was going out, put on the tightest shorts and tshirt she could find, and took the train to a big city. There she admits she went to a bar and told a bunch of guys a bunch of bad stuff about me (what a jerk I was, etc), and that we did not have a "normal marriage". They took her over to their place (3 guys living together) and they offered to let her stay the night, and she says she said "not THIS time" with a wink, she told me all of this proudly. She didn't say what else went down. One thing I did in response: That night I took our wedding photo (we have only one) off the mantle and put it away in a box. Big whoop. She appears not to have noticed this, but I assume that women MUST notice this kind of thing (she put the picture there in the first place), so the fact that she has not asked about the picture or retrieved it and put it back means that she doesn't care.

9. I will pray for reconciliation, but I am basically waiting for God/Holy Spirit and/or my wife to come hit me over the head and say "Hellooo! I'm trying to reconcile here" before I will do any of the "envisioning" of a happily-married-with her future that I'd like to. My wife is a strong believer in the "law of attraction" and would basically say that by my point 7 above that I'm "attracting a divorce" (not that she appears to care). My basic dilemma is that I have wished for reconciliation so long and when I step back and remove the scales/blinders from my eyes I have never, ever seen her appear to wish for it. I don't want to have false hope. I want to send out the vibe that I have moved on from her, and mentally make the shift. If I really mentally make the shift she might pick up on that and she MIGHT start to re-evaluate things and worry that I might actually leave, I don't think she has that fear right now.

 

If I divorce, I know my church will think I am a bad man. I am willing to be a bad man and am making plans to divorce in the future if things do not improve. So, what do you all think about my ridiculous plans?

[prismfaerie]

There is just so much going on in this entry, more than I can begin to write about within the time frame I currently have.

 

I will say that reading this, your wife reminds me immediately of my mother. My mother is a schizophrenic with narcassistic personality disorder. She is cruel, vindictive, and extraordinarly violent, emotionally. Not unlike your wife.

 

According to John Gottman, MD there are four horses of the apocalypse when it comes to marriage: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness and Stonewalling. Seems to me your marriage meets all of these criteria.

 

Sounds like your wife also just wants out, but she doesn't want to do the "dirty work", as it were. Maybe she wants to beat you to a pulp so bad, that, with your sense of self and self worth squashed and diminished, you'll just finally leave like a wounded animal. Sounds almost like it's doing the inverse, and that may be making her even more upset. It sounds like, instead, you're being beaten into the ground, like a stake in a railroad track.

 

With that, I'm going to list some things that totally appall me:

 

I cannot believe that whole story about the gloating over the 3 men in the bar. I was about to write that if you didn't have children seperate. Immediately. Now I'm not so sure if it'd be ill-advised not to. There is just so much toxicity and emotional battery in that scene all I can think about is the kind of wounding my mother inflicted on ANYBODY WHO EVER LOVED HER.

 

I cannot believe she'd call you a "wimp" and "not a man" over not getting into a politic argument at a family gathering (politically, I am an independent that leans to the left. Almost my entire family are right wing Republicans. I love them more than anything. THE LAST thing I want is to cause a rift with politics, even if they DO speak down on things I support. My being there is about FAMILY not POLITICS).

 

I cannot believe she insults you by calling you a "wimp" and "not a man", or anyting else for that matter. Period! Look, as a woman, I too am troubled when the man I'm with is not assertive. HOWEVER. If you have a marriage that is based on LOVE, HONOR and RESPECT, you work with each other not against each other! You *never* insult each other! Your wife hasn't only lost respect for you, she's abusive as all get out. No one should have to live with that and, along with counseling, I really think you need to be firm and put your foot down with the following message: You love her and you want to work toward happiness WITH her but you CAN'T if she's going to continually undermine your marriage by insulting you! You do NOT have to abide by abuse, children or no.

 

I am really, really concerned about your daugher, especially since she is feeling such things so youg. In a way, she reminds me of me when I was growing up. In the fourth grade, when I asked my mother for help with my math homework, she beat me in the face and called me stupid every time I got a problem wrong. It is this kind of treatment that haunts me to this day.

 

Now, perhaps your wife doesn't physically abuse your children, but the emotional abuse IS there. You owe it to your CHILDREN to stand up to your WIFE, and DO IT with the support of a therapist!!

 

And that is a perfect segwe into my next point: If your wife refuses to go to counseling, go without her. From your description you sound right on the money with the personality disorder and these people are IMPOSSIBLE to live with. They have a hole in their soul that they consistently need to fill with the misery of their loved ones.

 

With your apathy, your weight gain, etc, it sounds like you've been so beaten down and depressed by this harpy that it's hard for you to be motivated. Everything that you describe seems to be a downward spiral.

 

I don't mean to disrespect your faith, but really, if the church feels that you're a bad man for divorcing...frankly, your wife isn't living up to the bargain to love, honor and respect. Are you supposed to stay in a marriage in which you're defecated on every day? I'm not saying you shouldn't try to save the marriage, but she is breaking the contract, what kind of marriage is that to stay in?!

 

I can't stress it enough: Go to therapy, with or without your wife. Make sure your therapist is a GOOD one. And if not for yourself or your marriage, at least for your children. This is an extremely toxic environment not just for you but for ALL of those kids. Your wife, frankly, scares me, and the damage she can wreak will be many-fold in the years to come if you don't put the kabosh on this NOW.

[Angel1111]

You're with a verbal abuser and you cannot fix this person. The only scenario that you didn't mention, and the only one that is appropriate in these circumstances - is that you divorce her and you get custody of the kids. Verbal abuse does not bode well in court and you need to fight to get your kids out of this environment. Your daughter saying she hates her mother is a very serious thing and for each day you stay in this marriage is another day you subject them to this horrible life they live.

 

There probably isn't so many things wrong with you that they merit the reactions you're getting from your wife. Not getting into an argument with relatives doesn't mean you're weak. It probably means you're smart enough to know when to be quiet. And being overweight doesn't give her the right to treat you with total and complete disrespect. She just knows your hot buttons and is pushing them all the time. And if my spouse told me that he went to a bar and then went home with several women, the marriage would be over - then and there. Not necessarily because I wouldn't believe that he didn't have sex with them, it would be because I wouldn't stick around after someone threw that kind of threat and insult in my face. It's says all I need to know about that person, and what they think of me.

 

The only thing your idiot wife is attracting with through the law of attraction is intense negativity in her life and everyone's around her. This is truly a stupid woman and the sooner you see that and act on it, the better for everyone involved. Do yourself and your children a huge favor and go talk to a lawyer. Get this woman as much out of your life as possible.

[prismfaerie]

I really strove to be neutral about the whole stay in the marriage/divorce thing in my first post, but really, thinking about it, I've changed my mind in that respect. I said "seperate" regarding the whole bar episode but really, that's an instant divorce. It speaks for itself.

 

Angel111 is right, your wife is pushing your buttons because she can. Your wife will never treat you with love or respect because she either doesn't want to or can't. You can't change a person like this; I know from dealing with my mother. Your wife has a mental illness.

 

Save your children and yourself; with the support of a therapist, divorce and seek custody of the children.

[Walk]

I agree that you should get out of this marriage.

 

Even giving your wife the benefit of the doubt, I still do not see any of your current actions acting as a wake up call to your wife. And the passive stance you've taken is rewarding your wife for her bad behavior. If she was listening to you, attempting to understand, then your actions are dead on. That would be the way to go about it. But she's not. She's convinced she's right, and that she can keep you stuck firmly in this marriage by beliitling you and ruining your self-estem.

 

Big point here. Your marriage teaches your children how to show their love in adult relaitonships. They're going to grow up believing that woman should treat their partners badly, and men should accept it. Everything you do right now is sinking into those talented little brains and locking in like concrete.

 

Seriously, for one moment forget the issues between you and your wife and think solely about what the two of you are teaching your children right now. Staying in a marriage just to have 2 parents is bullshyt. Espcially when you're talking about a home life that's as stressful as the one you described. Your daughter is stressed to hell, you're unhappy... what would it take for you to realize this isn't a healthy environment for your kids?

 

My brother's exW made his life a living hell before they split. She left him. He's been raising those kids (4 kids, with 2 under 5 yrs old) on his own for the last 5 years. He doesn't make that much (mid 40's), and they don't get all the newest things, but those kids have really flourished since the divorce. They were like... man, it was amazing to see how much they changed. Their emotional/mental growth was astounding. And even though the divorce was hard on them, removing the negiative, stressful factor, allowed those kids to have a happier and better life.

 

I'm just saying... divorce is not the end of the world. You aren't a bad man for calling it quits when your wife has broken her vows (love, honor, cherish).

 

p.s. When your wife said she wanted an "open marriage", she didn't mean that you could go out with other woman. She stated that you couldn't find any woman who would want you, therefore you would not benefit from the "openness" of the marriage. She wasn't offering it to you. She wants her cake and eat it too. None for you. Trust me, I'm a woman, I know how this works. If you were to so much as touch another woman during your wife's concept of an open marriage then there would be bloody hell to pay. You'd be accused of cheating, and worse. Your wife wasn't offering a 2 way street. So please do not pretend she was attempting to do you any favors on that one. She just wanted your permission to walk all over you.

[Centuris]

Wow, I really appreciate all of the attention in your responses and I will have to reread them later and respond in detail.

 

I guess I would say that your responses are like a wake-up call to me. When you are living in a situation you kind of become used to it, no matter what it is like. It also takes courage to end a marriage. I need to seriously ponder your advice.

 

I didn't hear any objection to monitoring my wife's computer, so I will look into that.

 

I guess one problem I have been having is that when I have been approaching this problem so far I have been aiming to "fix" my marriage so that if I change my behavior she will somehow behave differently, that there is some kind of a magic formula that I have not yet found. Maybe she is able to change (maybe anyone is) but she is just unwilling.

 

I need to keep my eyes open, to be able to see what I am missing, to somehow step outside of myself, my own ego, my own hopes and dreams.

[Angel1111]

Read some books on verbal abuse and you'll understand even better. The percentage of these people who alter their behavior is so small it's not even worth talking about. They love the power they get from treating others badly and they refuse to give up this power. It's like oxygen to them. Even the good times are a form of abuse because they keep you walking on eggshells and you never know when they're going to lash out at you again.

 

It helps to grasp the whole cycle of abuse - good times, bad times, good times - so that you can understand that it's all the same package. Abusers know they can't be abusive 100% of the time, so they pad it with a few nice things in between. It took me a long time to wrap my mind around that. And it took a long time for me to stop thinking I was the problem and, therefore, also the solution. The only solution is to walk away. Once you understand that this has nothing to do with you - other than the fact that you're a willing target - you'll understand that there's no point in trying to fix the unfixable.

 

The main thing to understand is what someone else mentioned earlier - that the things your children are experiencing is having a tremdously bad effect on them and you need to focus on getting them away from her.

 

The best book I ever read on abuse was by Lundy Bancroft entitled, "Why Does He Do That? (Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men)" This would apply to your wife, as well. The author has incredible insight on abusers because abusive people who ended up in court were ordered to go to him for counseling - so he spoke to literally thousands of them. He also explains the dynamics of the abuser and the abused, and why it's so difficult for the abused person to walk away. Despite all that, your protective instincts toward your kids need to kick in. Your children expect their parents to protect them and, so far, they're being disappointed by both of you. This is a shattering message to send to your kids.

[lamaman3]

My friend - best of luck to you...It seems like you are able to think through a bad situation rationally...There are however, a few mistakes in your thinking...

 

Currently, your thinking is reactive...Instead of thinking about what kind of life YOU would like to live - your actions are simply responses to her. You do not want to divorce for the kids, reconciling yourself to stay in a miserable marriage - but say you would divorce if you caught her cheating...

 

My friend - your marriage is over, it is a marriage only in the legal sense - your wife verbally abuses you and the children and has been 2 years since youve slept with each other - at this point, the least of your worries should be whether she is sleeping with anyone else (and I would put my money on it that she has/is).

 

Just assume the worst to be true now - expending effort in the midst of this miserable situation to "catch" her and see the evidence with your own eyes will simply make you depressed and mess with your mind...Decide right NOW - how you want your life to be lived. If you are against divorce because of your kids - decide how you can make yourself the best life as much as possible within this constraint...I hate to say it but having your wife able to get some on the side might make your life more pleasant...If you decide you want nothing to do with your wife but still stay married - then you have to work on improving yourself and let your pre-occupation with her monogamy go - locking you both down into a miserable situation and knowing she is just as miserable (by monitoring her) wont help you out in the long run either. If you decide you want to give it another shot at attracting your wife and sparking something anew- then the advice is the same - work on improving yourself by such things as making yourself more attractive, assertive, not taking her bull seriously, and at least make it seem like you are more desireable to other women as well. To simply reconcile yourself to sticking in the marriage and being miserable for another 15 years on the condition that she is also miserable by making sure she has nothing to do with another guy dosent make much sense in terms of your goals.

[Centuris]

You're with a verbal abuser and you cannot fix this person. The only scenario that you didn't mention, and the only one that is appropriate in these circumstances - is that you divorce her and you get custody of the kids. Verbal abuse does not bode well in court and you need to fight to get your kids out of this environment. Your daughter saying she hates her mother is a very serious thing and for each day you stay in this marriage is another day you subject them to this horrible life they live.

 

There probably isn't so many things wrong with you that they merit the reactions you're getting from your wife. Not getting into an argument with relatives doesn't mean you're weak. It probably means you're smart enough to know when to be quiet. And being overweight doesn't give her the right to treat you with total and complete disrespect. She just knows your hot buttons and is pushing them all the time. And if my spouse told me that he went to a bar and then went home with several women, the marriage would be over - then and there. Not necessarily because I wouldn't believe that he didn't have sex with them, it would be because I wouldn't stick around after someone threw that kind of threat and insult in my face. It's says all I need to know about that person, and what they think of me.

 

The only thing your idiot wife is attracting with through the law of attraction is intense negativity in her life and everyone's around her. This is truly a stupid woman and the sooner you see that and act on it, the better for everyone involved. Do yourself and your children a huge favor and go talk to a lawyer. Get this woman as much out of your life as possible.

 

 

The strange thing about the verbal abuse is that it turns on and off. When she's nice she can be very nice (no physical affection to me, though, anymore, which is very noticeable unfortunately, kind of like the demeanor of a second grade teacher). It's a strange package. If *I* had said the some of things that she had said to me to somebody, that would mean I hated that person period, forever, end of story. Then a half an hour later she comes back over to me and wants to chat (about something funny that happened to her that day) like nothing had occurred.

 

There is a strange dynamic going on with the kids, she's very affectionate in general with the two youngest, my older son tries to be the peacemaker (he's eight!!), and my wife is almost always at odds with my oldest daughter (let me rephrase that, if there is an "at odds" going on, it's usually between my oldest daughter and her, sometimes they can go for a few days or a week without fighting). My wife has been going for counseling with my daughter and what the counselor said so far is that they were "very much alike tempermentally (not sure if I agree completely)" and that "we needed to lower the temperature here (obviously)". My daughter is such a very special person to me and her experience of ten years old is hurting so much right now. She has acted out a few times (which triggered the couseling big time, stuff like breaking the walls in her room), but has got it more under control lately. My wife has made much less progress with her behavior, in my opinion. Me, I'm pretty much the same overall but I have been swamped at work.

 

My wife definitely knows all my hot buttons. I have to change the passcode mentally on my hot buttons to make them inaccessible to her.

 

I have had it up to here with the Law of Attraction. I'm not saying I don't agree with certain aspects of it. My wife won't watch the news because she feels it's attracting turmoil and violence or whatever. I tell my older kids about what's going on in the world, like the financial meltdown stuff or the Mumbai bombing. I'm not in your face about it but I want them to be aware of things.

[Angel1111]

The strange thing about the verbal abuse is that it turns on and off. When she's nice she can be very nice (no physical affection to me, though, anymore, which is very noticeable unfortunately, kind of like the demeanor of a second grade teacher).

 

I repeat: Even the good times are a form of abuse because they keep you walking on eggshells and you never know when they're going to lash out at you again. It helps to grasp the whole cycle of abuse - good times, bad times, good times - so that you can understand that it's all the same package. Abusers know they can't be abusive 100% of the time, so they pad it with a few nice things in between.

[jwi71]

Centuris,

 

You have four reasons to leave: your children.

 

Your M is over in every sense. Now some couples can in fact stay together for the kids and be civil and decent. Some can even manage a certain level of comfort and contentment - in fact some even begin to improve when they stay for the kids and "stop caring". Oddly enough, that removes pressure/stress and they begin to drift closer together.

 

This is NOT YOUR CASE. Your W is not only not "acting nice for the kids" she is ACTIVELY hurting them and you. There are no steps YOU can take to fix this M - you can work on YOU but it takes two to fiz a M and she isn't interested.

 

Leave and NOW. Do it for YOU. DO it for YOUR CHILDREN. Don't feed me any crap that people will think poorly of you. So effin' what. Screw your pride and vanity and put your kids first.

 

The only change you can make that has a positive outcome is to leave. Hire a lawyer, file for divorce and get out. Yes, it will be hard. But can you imagine the time with your kids w/o her abuse? A nice quiet evening working on homework, no yelling, no screaming...a normal family night.

 

Your kids will thank you. Maybe not now but later.

[Angel1111]

Your kids will thank you. Maybe not now but later.

 

I was once married to a guy who was verbally abusive and when he started turning that anger on my son (his step-son), that was the end of the line for me. But the truth was, even with the way he treated me, it made our home a very sad place to be and did it's own form of damage. And because of the damage my ex was doing to my son and to our home, I asked myself, 'if I stay in this marriage, what will I say to my son when he's 30 yrs old and asks me why I stayed with a guy who treated us so badly'. I realized that I was only staying out of fear and weakness, and that there would never be an answer good enough. I realized that I was solely responsible for my son's well-being, that there would be no excuse that would make up for the hurt and damage. There was no excuse good enough. That single thought made me realize that I couldn't do that to him because I would never forgive myself.

 

As parents, I believe that it's our responsibility - above and beyond everything else - to protect the well-being of our children. Even if that means protecting them from their other parent. Unless you want to find yourself answering hard questions from your kids when they're adults, Centuris. Questions that you'll never have good enough answers for...

[Artu]

Really hard to offer you something you had not thought of it yourself before .

 

The only thing I would suggest you , is to leave your house for some time to give her time to realize what she really wants .

 

As it comes out of your post , this is her who is to blame actually ,

though there are always Two to blame and Two that are not to blame . . . You know it ...

 

 

Anyway try some NC period , go away , have some good time thinking all over ,she will also think , and in some time you will both come to some conclusion as this way you are living your lives - is not appropriate .

[Centuris]

Not much has changed since I last wrote. My oldest daughter has started to rebound, is eating better and acting out less.

 

I joined a gym at the end of December, but then hit a wall of work and haven't been able to go for two weeks (I was also sick in early January).

 

Today had an argument with the wife as follows. My older daughter had not done her laundry for a while and had no clean clothes to wear. I decided to "help" by doing her laundry for her, and my wife argued with me for not having the *courage* to make my daughter do it herself, and that she didn't like my personality of "being a doormat". I responded back to complain why she always puts the worst possible light on things I do. I said "If you treat me this way, how do you expect me to treat you"?

 

I am still buried in my work, but focusing on my career at the moment is helping me to achieve some of my personal goals.

 

I feel miserable, in the sense that I am really pining away inside for my wife, despite all of the contempt she has shown for me over the past few years. I wish I could A) stop loving her and B) find someone else to love.

She never makes any indication at bottom that she wants things to improve between us.

 

I have no energy to consider divorce right now, and our finances are borderline. I will try to build myself back from the ground up as follows:

1. sleep more

2. get back to the gym

3. get caught up in my work

4. look out for my kids

 

I will try to be indifferent to my wife, a form of no contact, if I can.

 

One thing that I do irritates my wife. Sometimes, after a long day when I get home late (10PM) and the kids are already all in bed, I will stay up for an hour or so and play computer games. She herself likes to surf the internet on her own computer or watch soaps on TV nearby. She hates computer games, and my playing them irritates her no end. Still, overall, I use the computer much less than she does, and I usually go to bed much earlier than she does (I get up earlier also). In the past, have considered stopping playing computer games entirely just because they are an irritant to her. She will usually couch her criticism in "why do I do that when I should be getting more sleep after a long day at work", even though she will intend to stay up two more hours after I've gone to bed (we don't sleep in the same bed anymore).

 

I don't think I will stop playing computer games, but I definitely limit my time to 30-60 minutes in line with my goal of getting more sleep. The reason why I won't stop is because it's a form of relaxation, the kids are already sleeping, and my wife doesn't really do anything *with* me that I enjoy anymore. I also just don't want to modify my behavior anymore to go out of my way to please her.

 

If people on this board thought it was a bright idea to stop the games, I would consider it. On the other hand, maybe I should intentionally ignore whether I'm irritating her, no matter what it is I'm doing. She pretty much views me as one big irritant anyway, so why stop?

[Mr. Lucky]

If people on this board thought it was a bright idea to stop the games, I would consider it. On the other hand, maybe I should intentionally ignore whether I'm irritating her, no matter what it is I'm doing. She pretty much views me as one big irritant anyway, so why stop?

Assuming that you're not doing something illegal or unethical, your free time is exactly that - your's to do with as you please. As others have pointed out, your conflict-avoidance strategy simply reinforces your wife's behavior - if she acts out, she gets what she wants. Appeasement didn't work for Chamberlain in WWII and it won't work for your marriage.

 

You need to get out and create as stable an environment for your kids as separation and divorce will allow. Parts of it will suck; recognize that in advance and deal with it as best you can. Staying together for the next 15 years will make your children well-supported but dysfunctional and unhappy adults. The behavior your describe in your daughter - destroying her room, refusing to eat, etc. - is not normal teenage behavior but simply the manifestation of the stress your unhappy marriage has put on her (and the other kids) life. There's no "happy ending" in these situations, there's just making things better than they are now. Sooner or later, you'll have to get started and I'll wager that, based on what you've posted, your wife's actions will force your hand...

 

Mr. Lucky

[whichwayisup]

Why not just come clean and tell your wife how miserable you are. This is crazy, to stay together yet completely stay away from one another on so many levels..

 

Either do marriage counselling and start 'dating' your wife again, go out and have fun. See a movie, shoot some pool, or go dancing..Something to reconnect you and your wife. Or, do a trial separation, or even divorce.

 

Something brought you two together years ago. Where did the love, respect and care go?

 

I understand your frustration, but burying your head in the sand is not helping.

[clv0116]

Congrats, you've married a standard issue, empowered, entitled, feminist influenced, American woman. When I read something like this I begin to understand Sean Connery's views on family dynamics.

 

All I can offer is that when you finally discover who she's already sleeping with you gather up the balls to go after her no-holds-barred in family court.

[desertmoon]

Hello Centuris! You seem like a sweet,thoughtful man..and your wife is a NUT!

 

You are right about taking care of your health first...you do not have to make a huge decision right now, but nonetheless, you DO have to make one, unfortunately sooner, than later--but you know that already.

 

Getting a good night's sleep is essential. It rejuvenates the body and when one is physically healthy, one can think clearer. Exercise, good diet, wholesome family activities, etc- I suggest that you include your kids in the program. The Y is a good place for family activities! and yes, play that computer game--she probably wants you already in bed so she can be online and do whatever it is that she is doing online....popular program people suggest here all the time: install a KEYLOGGER...

 

Usually, I would ask anybody who wants to find out things about people on what they are going to do with the information they will find? Personally, even if she is not cheating, but because she is abusive AND unwilling to provide a home free of chaos for your kids, I would still divorce her.....!

 

Clearly, your wife has major psych issues(obviously). Abuse is abuse is abuse---it is wrong. Allowing it to go on will have devastating results-as is evident by your daughter's behavior. Is your wife still on Zoloft? any other meds? Does she see her psychiatrist regularly? I am sure you guys' counselor know that she is abusive, right? what is he/she saying about it?

 

Anyway, it is good that you are trying to stop pining for your wife. Needing someone that way empowers the other person--STOP.

 

Is it possible that you and your wife NOT argue and fight in front of your kids? And you need to gently tell your 8 year old that he is not responsible for fixing the chaos in your house! Being the "peacemaker" is a huge load on his little shoulders! uggggghhhh...kids should be allowed to be kids!

 

Take stock and take care of yourself , so you can take care of your children.

[jointheclub]

I feel miserable, in the sense that I am really pining away inside for my wife, despite all of the contempt she has shown for me over the past few years. I wish I could A) stop loving her and B) find someone else to love.

 

Believe it or not, I am pleased to see that you at least have those as goals. Because you know what? You can achieve both of those things in time. Honestly, you are obviously trying *really* hard here and it pains me to read your original posting where you seem to blame all the problems of your marriage on yourself. And now you're going to give up your 30-60 minutes of videogame playing at night? There is nothing wrong with that, and if you give in she'll obviously find some other thing to be upset about.

 

Seriously, Centuris, I hope you can take some positive action here for your sake and the sake of your kids. I know how hard this is going to be on you, but at least you'll be working towards feeling better, and it doesn't seem like that's going to happen while you're in this marriage.

 

I will give you this insight from my brother about our difficult childhoods in reference to our problematic relatives: "We learned that sometimes no amount of sucking it up gets you anywhere."

[kimflute26]

You really do seem like a sweet man who feels trapped in a situation that simply won't get better. I wish that one day you can experience genuine love again, like what I feel now in my relationship. You and I are quite different I think.... I'm 19 years old and in college. But I have this amazing boyfriend.... After about a year and a half together I continue to get butterflies when we kiss - those kisses are often very passionate. Many times we love to just hold each other, and crawling into bed at night then waking up next to each other in the morning is always so comforting. He does all kinds of sweet things for me... just in the past couple weeks he has walked me home in the freezing cold (at least a couple times) brought me dinner twice, brought me a smoothie, and he tells me he loves me every day - most often more than once a day. We laugh together constantly like best friends (because we are)... And just being around him I can see the love in his eyes and feel it in his actions.

 

Please do not commit to another 15 years with this woman.... Wouldn't you rather spend the next 15 years of your life experiencing the kind of love I've described above? Please do not simply endure this... life is not meant to be endured. Trust me when I say that your kids will be better for it when you two are apart. My parents went through a divorce when I was younger, but the process was actually pretty smooth. The house was happier without the tension and fighting... Your kids also deserve a warmer home to live in, NOT a home with two people that are merely tolerating eachother's existence. I hope you will truly consider this... I mean REALLY consider it. Because honestly, many people are in your position... they think they have to stay in it for the kids. But let me tell you, that way of thinking should have died long ago.

[Centuris]

Thanks for all your responses, especially the last. Kimflute, I remember meeting my wife at not that much older an age than you are now. I remember when she would really appreciate me buying her simple meals, experiencing different things (like you mention him walking you home in the freezing cold). Despite everything it makes me happy to remember those times.

 

One thing that has bugged me about my own personality is that I was always one to get "stuck on" a girl until the relationship petered out. All the girls I was interested in up until my wife were friendly but were not *that* interested. My wife was the first person who reciprocated, and the rest is, shall we say, history. I tend to get fixated on things, almost anything. Could be a TV show, "this is the best TV show ever! I want to see every episode". Could be a particular author. When I get interested in an author's writings I like to read everything they've written, from their first work to the last, thinking everything they write is "great". I don't seem to have a critical mind. One of my other friends might say "well, book A is obviously very poorly written compared to book B", and I would tend to make excuses for the poorer work. Same thing for me with women, or people. It's like their sh*t doesn't stink. Now, I have my ten year old daughter rising up in my family, she seems smarter than myself and my wife put together, and things will happen now and then (sometimes on a daily basis) and my daughter will just come out and say the equivalent of "this sucks!". Wheras maybe 11 years ago when it was just me and my wife, certain things would go on and I would just be like, "Okay, honey, I guess if you don't like using butter then we won't buy butter anymore. Come to think of it, I guess I don't like butter after all (when I was truthfully a fiend for butter before) ***This is just an example, not the actual fact ***.

 

How am I ever going to develop myself into a mature person that can love a woman maturely? A person who says what they mean and who is comfortable in their own skin and in front of a mirror naked. I went out Saturday night with one of my high school friends who is still unmarried. We're both about 41. He has made 5x as much as I do a year for the a past several years. By his own account he seems to date three times a week with women he meets online, nearly a different woman every time. He seems to say that <10% of the women he meets are ones that he would be interested in having a long-term relationship with, and some of those ones that he likes end up rejecting *him*. Typical comment I heard was "Went out with a dental hygenist last Tuesday, she had a great body, but was a bore. Next!". Most of the girls he dates are 5-10 years younger. It seems like dating is a huge amount of work. My friend gave me a thumbs up on my joining the gym last month but said I might want to work on my wardrobe next, everything I wear looks kind of stale.

 

Even though I envy my friend in certain respects, I would never wave a magic wand to change places with him because of my kids alone, I love them so much as they are and am happy that I had them when I was younger.

 

Setting aside my wife for the moment, and the related family craziness which I have mentioned, I would like to say something positive. I am AWAKE. I want to change myself, to become a better person. I want to use the time I have available in my life now to make changes. This is beside the point of whether I stay married.

[reddog63]

After reading this thread I thought I would add two cents;

 

There is no way in hades you are going to fix that marriage. Your wife treats you like crap and this will not change.

 

The most healthy thing for all would be to divorce.

 

Why on earth would you stay in relationship like that???????? Step back and look at it....

 

One last comment, think of this..............she is verbally abusive, etc..........but what kind of role model are for your children?? I would almost say you are abusive not removing them from that situation.

[J2FT1]

"First, me. I have had character flaws that have caused problems to build up in my marriage over time. The main ones that my wife doesn't like are that I'm not assertive enough, and based on various interactions I have had she has taken to calling me a "wimp", "not a real man", etc. One thing that initially triggered this was politics, like when during Thanksgiving I wouldn't voice my political views in front of other relatives, when my relatives were trashing politicians or causes that my wife and I support"

 

Let me guess, you grew up with a single mother?

[Mz. Pixie]

Buy the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells". It may tell you alot about your wife. I see some signs in her of a personality disorder- but I'm NOT a doctor. My mother suffered from one and I have just picked out a few things your wife is doing that match some of her actions.

 

1. Splitting the kids into all good or all bad- she has apparently picked the older daughter to make all bad. Part of it is jealousy. I was in this situation with my mother.

 

2. The way she'll be nice one minute and terrible the next. People with personality disorders are brilliant actors. Even close family members may not know how sick they truly are because they never see this side of them. I had friends I had for twenty years not have a clue about how vicious my mother was until they witnessed it themselves.

 

Please get the book and read it. She should be seen by a real doctor for a diagnosis. If she does have a personality disorder especially narcassistic I urge you to get those children away from her. My mother made my life a living hell and I suffered every type abuse out there between her and my stepcreep. Seriously, most are not capable of being loving parents.