It's over and he hates me now.

[DSM-IV Tom]

I am sorry. I didn't mean there's no hope for HIM as an individual.

 

I mean there's no hope for your relationship. He has drug you through the mud and has more problems than a math test. It's not your responsibility to save him.

 

But he CAN be saved. Just not by you.

 

As I said at the very very very beginning of this topic-- he has to save himself.

[amaysngrace]

I have a lot of sympathy for people with these kinds of serious problems but, really, I have no desire to get involved with them on any level. Sorry, that's just the way I feel about it. They will destroy your life, day by day, year by year. It's not worth it.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this and I'm afraid that if you're feeling this way, you're going to go back to him. Please, let yourself heal from this and then find a normal guy to be with. You don't need this insanity in your life.

 

Thanks Angel. I appreciate that. You were right before btw.

 

Yeah so I may love him but I'm not feeling it though. I'm sad and all but I will be fine.

[amaysngrace]

Im allergic to cats

 

Me too evidently.

 

What you did may actually be the best thing for him. And if it is not, it may be what you and your kids need. Continuing status quo with an alcoholic is not an option.

 

Thanks James. It is status quo. It's not even status quo. I'd be happy with status quo, I think. The thing that gets me is that his mom did it for years. His sister in law too. They both did it. Still do it. I don't have to though. That's where I'm lucky. He's not my husband. We don't share children. I am so happy about these things right now. Still I feel like compared to them I must suck. They do it but I won't. But maybe they get more from their men than I got from my ex? I don't know. I'm not them. Maybe they have lower expectations? It got to where I actually had no expectations for this guy. To keep myself from being disappointed. But that's why it's over.

 

I just want a chance to live a functional life for a change. I'm so tired of being dysfunctional. I have been dysfunctional my whole life. I'd like to know how the other half lives. I want my kids to be in that other half.

 

Cut him off like an infected finger. The harder you try to hold onto hope/want to help him/save him, the harder you will fall head first and smash your face.

 

I know. I give up. I cannot do it anymore. I love him but I hate this relationship. This love triangle.

 

I never say any situation is hopeless. All humans have the capability to change...if they so desire.

 

That's the thing. He doesn't want to change. So it was up to me to change.

 

I feel bad about something else too. Today he asked me "what if it were me who was the alcoholic?" and I told him "I wouldn't be an alcoholic, it would be unacceptable to me and be a problem so big I'd need to fix it because that's how I am. I'd be a recovering alcoholic".

[Angel1111]

These people will say anything to keep you emotionally engaged. That's what his 'what if you were an alcoholic' question was about - to make you feel bad, to question your motives, to keep you emotionally tied to the relationship, blah blah blah. Don't take the bait.

 

He's messed up and he knows it. But the other side of it is that he's ok with being messed up and just wants you to be ok with it, too. By digging his heels in and refusing to do anything about his problem, he's basically saying, 'I'm going to stay right where I am and because I know you love me a great deal, I'm going to gamble that you'll come back and see it my way. And every now and then, I'll dangle the bait about trying to change. But I won't really. I'll just keep gambling that you'll stick around until you've stuck around for so long that you've lost all hope for a better life.'

 

This is often known as a no-win situation.

[Geishawhelk]

Well, I'm glad.

I'm glad, I'm glad, I'm glad.

He's a jerk and he doesn't deserve you.

He might hate you, but he's not in his right mind, and he's not for you to fix.

But we all love you, and we can help you and support you and be glad for you because honestly, it's better this way.

 

You had an episode recently, you posted about, and like the honourable and worthy person you are, you complained about him, yet did your best to defend him.

And that's natural.

But his behaviour isn't.

 

Good for you.

Good for your life.

Good on you!

 

Sorry.

Pushin' my luck a little here.

But if I was with you, I'd be hugging you so hard, and I'd take you out for a good meal!

[amaysngrace]

These people will say anything to keep you emotionally engaged. That's what his 'what if you were an alcoholic' question was about - to make you feel bad, to question your motives, to keep you emotionally tied to the relationship, blah blah blah. Don't take the bait.

 

He's messed up and he knows it. But the other side of it is that he's ok with being messed up and just wants you to be ok with it, too. By digging his heels in and refusing to do anything about his problem, he's basically saying, 'I'm going to stay right where I am and because I know you love me a great deal, I'm going to gamble that you'll come back and see it my way. And every now and then, I'll dangle the bait about trying to change. But I won't really. I'll just keep gambling that you'll stick around until you've stuck around for so long that you've lost all hope for a better life.'

 

This is often known as a no-win situation.

 

What you say is so very true. I wanted to win though. I wanted him to stay sober until I got there. He didn't. He took the chance of passing out when he cracked that very first beer. It was unfair of him but he doesn't see it that way. He doesn't realize had he done that he'd have been a champ in my eyes.

 

Well, I'm glad.

I'm glad, I'm glad, I'm glad.

He's a jerk and he doesn't deserve you.

He might hate you, but he's not in his right mind, and he's not for you to fix.

But we all love you, and we can help you and support you and be glad for you because honestly, it's better this way.

 

You had an episode recently, you posted about, and like the honourable and worthy person you are, you complained about him, yet did your best to defend him.

And that's natural.

But his behaviour isn't.

 

Good for you.

Good for your life.

Good on you!

 

Sorry.

Pushin' my luck a little here.

But if I was with you, I'd be hugging you so hard, and I'd take you out for a good meal!

 

Do you have any idea how great I think you are? Well it's a LOT.

 

XO

[Geishawhelk]

Do you have any idea how great I think you are? Well it's a LOT.

 

XO

 

Right back atcha, hun! ((((((((((((((megahugs))))))))))))))

[zxcirce]

hey amaysn, glad you did it sooner rather than later. i hope you find your happiness.

[nittygritty]

((Grace))

 

You have been through way too much and worked too hard at getting a better life for you and your kids to let it all be destroyed by choosing a relationship with an alcoholic.

 

I hope that you can remain strong and not go back because the guilt of leaving combined with an alcoholic's manipulation will wear you down and it's easy to return or continue choosing similiar types of relationships.

 

Take a time-out from romantic relationships for awhile. Even though you don't have a problem with alcohol it's easier to see your relationship with an alcoholic clearer if you stop drinking.

 

It's hard to be in a romantic relationship with an alcoholic without drinking and the choices are usually either to join them in their downward spiral or leave.

 

I'm glad to hear that your making good choices for yourself and your kids. You all deserve it.

[amaysngrace]

hey amaysn, glad you did it sooner rather than later. i hope you find your happiness.

 

Thank you. It was time. When it seems more bad than good it's time.

I am sad today but I actually think I am closer to happiness than I realize.

 

I hope that you can remain strong and not go back because the guilt of leaving combined with an alcoholic's manipulation will wear you down and it's easy to return or continue choosing similiar types of relationships.

 

Thank you. I don't think I will fall back with him. Right now I would rather be alone than be with him. It's the better choice for me. I hope to not hear from him again unless he needs to reach out to me as part of the 12 step program. Then I would listen to him. But only then.

 

It's hard to be in a romantic relationship with an alcoholic without drinking and the choices are usually either to join them in their downward spiral or leave.

 

Luckily we never lived together or I very well may have developed a problem. Yesterday I told him most people I know go out places and drinking is an accent. For us it was the objective.

 

Ugh...it's turning my stomach now.

[sb129]

I may call my mom tomorrow if I'm not feeling better. The thing is everyone warned me about this. Everyone said "don't" yet I still "did". I do things the hard way.

 

Does it matter if you learn the hard way?

Isn't the point that you get there in the end?

I don't think you deserve to hear anyone say "I told you so". Hopefully they will realise that you are taking a big step in the right direction and refrain from saying that.

 

I used to learn my lessons the hard way too. While it was tough at the time, ultimately I think it made me tougher and a better person.

And also helped me recognise good, true, normal functional love when it came along too and prevented me from taking it for granted.

 

 

Still if I knew then what I know now I'd still be with him for these past few years. He was worth getting to know. And we did have fun. We had our moments of goodness.

Thats a good way yo look at things. recognising that it wasn't all bad, but still being able to move on is a good sign IMO.

 

xx

[Gremio]

Whoah! I don't think you can apply the same standards to an alcoholic, as you apply to someone who's got full control of his facilities. This isn't about amaysn.

 

He does have full control of himself. He is just too weak and selfish to care.

[Gremio]

Life would take on a very dark aspect if I knew I didnt have recourse to a few beers here and there

 

Then you are weak. Do something more constructive with your time.

[Kamille]

 

Luckily we never lived together or I very well may have developed a problem. Yesterday I told him most people I know go out places and drinking is an accent. For us it was the objective.

 

 

The first time we had dinner at my parents, my ex's main concern was what booze (and how much booze) to bring. I tried to explain we could show up empty-ended if we wanted and he was flabber-gasted. We brought two 6 packs of beer. He left one in the car as emergency back up.

 

He guffawed when I told him my mom was allergic to alcool, saying that was impossible (uh, okay then, we won't put you in charge of the emergency needle).

 

Last year, the last day of class was cancelled because of a major snowstorm. On top of the University, government buildings were closed, grocery stores were closed, etc. My ex wanted to celebrate the end of term. He got mad and blamed 'this nowhere town' when he found out that the liquor store was also closed. Forget the fact that we couldn't see the house across the street because of the storm, those liquor store employees should have been forced to brave the storm since Mr. wanted champagne. He settled for one of the many scotches he had at home instead. I declined the offer to drink scotch. Apparently then, the point wasn't so much celebrating together as him getting wasted.

 

While we were discussing my moving over to his place, I invited a friend over. He wasn't going to be there at first, and spent twenty minutes telling me where all the booze was (I already knew) and what I could offer her to drink. She showed up, I offered various beverages but we settled for tea. He showed up and was stunned that we were drinking tea, implying that I was a bad host.

 

And then there was the one time, chronicled here, when I was making us dinner because he had a tough day at work and I was leaving town for two weeks. He showed up, proceeded to get himself completely smashed and then passed out on the couch before dinner was served (and of course was too hung over to escort me to the airport). THEN to make matters worse, I couldn't get a hold of him for three days, in spite of leaving countless messages. Bender anyone?

 

You know Amaysn, your thread is helping my realize that while he was functional, yes my ex had a problem, and that I certainly couldn't handle it - and that it isn't anything I would want in my life. I've been missing him lately, putting on the rosy-eyed glasses, forgetting the times alcool took priority over our relationships. Of course he always had a reason: he needed to unwind after a tough day at work, it was the hollydays, etc, but the bottomline is that he had a problem.

 

It doesn't take anything away from how much I loved him. But, as StarGazer pointed out to me when we broke up, sometimes love isn't enough. Especially when one partner's priorities are skewed because of alcool.

[Trialbyfire]

He does have full control of himself. He is just too weak and selfish to care.

When you put yourself up against an addiction, you'll always lose. It's no different than trying to force a core change on someone, like telling them to stop being insecure. Until they're willing to accept that this is a necessary change for themselves, they're going to continue falling back onto old patterns. With an addiction, it's even worse than core change, since it's also a strong physical craving/need.

[amaysngrace]

Oh boy. I don't know what the future will hold for me. I really don't. I wish I had a crystal ball and could see six months down the road from now but I can't.

 

He stopped drinking. He drank Friday but he said as he was drinking them he kept getting madder at himself. He went online and found an AA meeting here in our township Thursday. He didn't drink last night that I know of, he was here until 11:30 cause we fell asleep but we talked a lot first.

 

He said I was right. He was mad because I was right. He said that he is tired of drinking. It has a power over him and he wants to learn new tools to help him cope when he gets in that "mood". He says there is a time when it can be overbearing for him to drink and he needs to learn how to make it through those times.

 

He took an online test. He says he passed it but he failed because I think it must be one of those "are you an alcoholic?" tests or something.

 

He said he had no right to drink that night I complained about a few weeks ago. He knows it was wrong to pass out on me after I went to the trouble of getting myself together for him. He knows that was wrong.

 

He read up on stories online about the ways it effects those who love alcoholics. He heard their stories. He sees it from both sides.

 

I told him I don't know the depth of his strength. I haven't seen it before. I know he is a good man with good character. I know he is bright and honest. It'd be so totally cool to see how strong he is.

 

So if he goes to AA on Thursday I will start looking for an Al-anon meeting to attend soon.

 

So as it would be it is. I'm in his corner. Still.

[hereandnow]

I am a recovered alcoholic and addict who also has OCD. I've been sober now for 17 months, and have gotten therapy for the OCD as well. I figured I had to post on this topic having seen all the similarities.

 

I am encouraged by your last post. AA is how I got and continue to stay sober. Getting sober meant making AA and my newfound relationship with the God of my understanding the priority in my life. I'm just trying to give you an idea of how recovery tends to happen. Most of the people I've seen stay sober have thrown themselves into the AA program full force. There's a line in the book, "Half measures availed us nothing." Many come to meetings to try and get their family, their significant other, the court system, etc. off their back and very few stay sober. The ones who do usually make the leap from doing it for others to doing it for themselves.

 

Al-anon, Al-anon, Al-anon, regardless of whether your ex goes to a meeting or not. If you're in a large city, you'll be able to pick and choose between meetings you like and those you don't, but if you're in a smaller one there may not be that many. I know they have a book too. Pick it up. I have found the people who really work the 12 steps to be the greatest people on the face of the planet. I've seen firsthand the amazing generosity of these people and I never want to back to living the way I was now that I've seen the other side.

 

My heart goes out to you and your ex.

[Kamille]

Amaysn,

 

There is no shame in wanting to love and support him through this. I hear its a bumpy road but at least he knows he has a problem and he wants to deal with it.

 

I'm sure no one needs to tell you to thread carefully. And I agree with Hereandnow, you should attend a few Al Anon meetings, no matter what happens between the two of you. I went to a few and spent the first one crying. The Al Anon meetings are set up to offer you support. Alcoholism is a confusing disease and Al Anon can help you sort through a lot of the emotions you deal with as a partner of an alcoholic.

 

There is no shame in loving him, Amaysn. It's complicated and most people don't understand because they want to protect you. But, just as he's the only one who can find strenght in himself, only you can know your own strenght and make the right decision for yourself.

[amaysngrace]

I am a recovered alcoholic and addict who also has OCD. I've been sober now for 17 months, and have gotten therapy for the OCD as well. I figured I had to post on this topic having seen all the similarities.

 

I am encouraged by your last post. AA is how I got and continue to stay sober. Getting sober meant making AA and my newfound relationship with the God of my understanding the priority in my life. I'm just trying to give you an idea of how recovery tends to happen. Most of the people I've seen stay sober have thrown themselves into the AA program full force. There's a line in the book, "Half measures availed us nothing." Many come to meetings to try and get their family, their significant other, the court system, etc. off their back and very few stay sober. The ones who do usually make the leap from doing it for others to doing it for themselves.

 

Al-anon, Al-anon, Al-anon, regardless of whether your ex goes to a meeting or not. If you're in a large city, you'll be able to pick and choose between meetings you like and those you don't, but if you're in a smaller one there may not be that many. I know they have a book too. Pick it up. I have found the people who really work the 12 steps to be the greatest people on the face of the planet. I've seen firsthand the amazing generosity of these people and I never want to back to living the way I was now that I've seen the other side.

 

My heart goes out to you and your ex.

 

Thank you so much for taking time to reply. I am very happy you have chosen the high road for yourself. The harder of the two for sure. You sound great for it though so it must be working for you.

 

If you don't mind me asking, how have you handled the OCD? What steps have you taken to address that? And is it what they consider "severe"? My BF had been to the psychiatrist before and he actually would be able to go out on a medical leave for his. It interferes that much with his daily life. I think his is severe.

 

He refuses to do that though. He won't let it win that way. He said he'd be worse sitting home with it because he'd have less to think about to keep his mind off things. So working helps him that way.

 

Anyway good job! And thank you again.

[amaysngrace]

Alcoholism is a confusing disease and Al Anon can help you sort through a lot of the emotions you deal with as a partner of an alcoholic.

 

There is no shame in loving him, Amaysn. It's complicated and most people don't understand because they want to protect you. But, just as he's the only one who can find strenght in himself, only you can know your own strenght and make the right decision for yourself.

 

Thank you Kamille. I have to tread lightly. Like I said I don't know what will happen. So it's out of my hands how it plays out. For now anyway. I changed my mind and spoke to him before he gets help so I can change my mind anytime later as well. But for right now I will see what happens.

 

I love this man. He is probably the first one I ever loved. Most times I can say good-bye no problem. I have no problem with detachment. Or maybe I do because some say it's not normal to be able to detach myself so easily but anyway that doesn't matter right now.

 

The thing is he is very special to me. Saying good-bye to him honestly broke my heart. I cried for a whole day straight. And I was the dumper.

 

Again leaving him like that, drunk and still drinking, would have been easier for me. I had resigned myself to know there was nothing I could do.

 

Now it's different. Him cleaning up his act presents me with more challenge than just saying good bye. But I think it's the high road for me.

 

Thanks for your support and understanding Kamille. I appreciate it.

[hereandnow]

Okay the OCD part. Ever since I was a kid I washed my hands a lot, took multiple showers a day. More recently, it has given me a lot of trouble with reading, I'll read the same things over and over to get them "just right," I'll repeat things over and over in my head for the same reason, often the same phrase for weeks at a time, checking and re-checking locks, ovens etc.

 

I have actually called in to work because this was aggravating me so much. I used to go into the bathroom at work and repeat things over and over. So it was severe at least in the sense that it interfere with my daily activities.

 

I had been sober previously for good stretches of time, once 11.5 months. But I found that the frustration caused by the OCD led me to go out on a couple of one night relapses. I'm not saying the OCD caused the relapses, but it was a precipitating factor.

 

So I decided to seek therapy for it having read that certain methods of talk therapy were very helpful with it. It has been extremely helpful, even just to have somebody to bounce my crazy thinking off of. A lot of people go around saying "I'm so OCD" and they trivialize the actual disorder. Most people don;t understand it at all, or at least can't relate when you tell them about it. Not really.

 

I opted to go without medication, and this has probably made it more uncomfortable than it could be, but that's the route I wish to take at least for now. I started thereapy about 16 months or so ago, I had even stopped seeing him for the OCD, but decided to go back when my relationship ended 2 months ago!

 

Funny thing about it is, when I'm suffering from fear related to real situations and crises, such as my breakup, the OCD goes away for a while. It's like, finally, something I really need to worry about! HaHaHa. So for right now I'm pretty good!

 

What about the bipolar disorder, has your ex actually been diagnosed with it?

[amaysngrace]

Thank you hereandnow. My BF counts a lot. He can't even concentrate when people talk to him sometimes because he is so busy counting. He sees a billboard and counts the letters on it. He counts everything. He says it's nonsensical BS for the most part. He knows it's unreal. But still it is real to him. If it wasn't real he wouldn't go through with the things he goes through with.

 

He got a call back from his psychiatrist today. The guy who originally diagnosed him. He has a lot of faith in this man. He will be setting something up with him soon. He believes it has a much stronger hold on him than the alcohol. He does the alcohol to quiet his brain. Is that why you drank, do you think?

 

It's stopped working for him though. He still checks. He still goes through his house and checks which he use to sometimes do and sometimes not do when he drank but lately he always checks. So the alcohol has lost its effect that way.

 

He's mentioned going into the bathrooms at work. He said that if he was in the middle of a ritual and someone in the room sneezed he'd have to rewind and start all over. He says he has to raise his elbow so many times when he rolls down the window, or walk through a door a certain way. These are things he has done before. I don't know if he still does these things.

 

I mentioned the talk therapy you suggested but I think he is going to go with whatever the doctor recommends he do. He has enormous trust in him. Until he saw this man he never even knew that what he had had a name.

 

Can I ask you a personal question? Do you believe you are supernatural in some way? Gifted or have ESP?

 

I have to say my BF has been correct on some dreams he's had. Nothing major with me but one time I was talking to this guy and he saw the truck he drove and the out of state plates on it. Weird, huh? Also too we both had the same exact dream the very same night. Have you ever had this happen?

 

I'm sorry for your recent break-up. How long were the two of you together? Did she understand you? Has anybody understood you? I'm sorry if I'm asking too many personal questions. I was just wondering.

 

Is bi-polar the same as manic depression? Because he was diagnosed with manic depression. He says it's really hard to be happy with himself.

 

My BF looked up a lot on alcoholism the other night. He said that 25% of alcoholics have OCD. Did you know that? It seems as though if he were given the choice he'd pick being an alcoholic over having OCD.

 

I'm glad you don't drink like you use to do. I'm glad you are finding other ways to deal with the OCD. I'm sorry you have to deal with it at all though.

 

XO

[hereandnow]

It sounds like your boyfriend does have severe OCD. I absolutely think whatever a good psychiatrist recommends is the way to go. I personally went the route of no medication, but this is by no means the "best way." My therapist at first thought medication would be best, but I really wanted to try without it, and I've made it work.

 

I do believe I alcohol and drugs helped to quiet the OCD, but I really used them because I liked the effect produced by them. In other words I preferred an altered state to a sober one. Or, I liked to get high!

 

From an early age I was coined "gifted" by my teachers and parents, simply meaning very intelligent. Due to my recreational habits however, I am only now starting my first year of college at 27. But as far as ESP goes, not much. But I have used a lot pof hallucinogenic drugs and have gone into drug induced psychoses before, so I'm familiar with "other realities!"

 

I was with my ex for a little over 6 months, and yes, she was extremely supportive and understanding, but I will say that, from what you have said, that you bf's OCD is more severe than mine. So apart from her noticing me checking doors and ashtrays and stuff like that, she didn't know much about it besides what I told her. Actually ran into her tonight and spoke briefly, but maybe that's for another thread!

 

Bipolar disorder is the same as manic depression. I have been misdiagnosed with it before though. Misdiagnoses happen a lot with alcoholics and drug addicts. They present with symptoms of a lot of different mental disorders, anxiety, depression, psychosis, etc. Most alkies/addicts are dishonest about their substance intake when they talk to medical professionals/psychologists, which is a big part of this problem. When someone with an addiction is sober there is a greater chance of an accurate diagnosis.

 

I don't think that 25% of alcoholics have OCD, but who knows?

 

Of course, I'm not a medical professional or psychologist, so none of the above is any kind of professional advice. But I do have a lot of experience with these things, so it is good advice.

 

I'm wishing you the best. Please encourage your bf to be honest with his psychiatrist about everything, especially the alcohol intake.

[amaysngrace]

Thank you again. He plans to be honest with the doctor. His doctor predicted he'd go this route before he did. He thought my BF would turn to addiction to cope because it has been left untreated and I guess many go this route when they don't get treated? I don't know.

 

This doctor is the one who diagnosed him bi-polar I guess if bi-polar and manic depression are the same thing. It's the same man who pegged him for OCD. The same one he's trying to see now.

 

He may put him on medication. He had him on prozac before but my BF doesn't like prozac. He said it doesn't make the thoughts disappear although it does help make the desire to act on them go away. He didn't like how he became from the meds though. He says he felt like a zombie. All of his creative thoughts went numb too. So it changed him. He said his doctor had him jacked up on the highest dose they prescribe for people with the disorder. One good thing though is prozac is used to treat alcoholism.

 

I guess he just has to wait and see.

 

I sincerely want to thank you for taking time to reply. It means a lot.

 

Did you start your new thread yet?

[Geishawhelk]

Bi-Polar and Manic depression were once considered to be the same thing, and treated accordingly. But they're not.

A friend of mine has been treated for manic depression for over 20 years, and was also an alcoholic.

Since being correctly re-diagnosed a short while ago, and having her medication altered to treat a person with a Bo-Polar condition, she has completely eliminated alcohol from her life, and is far more stable and rational.

 

amaysngrace, you know how I felt, but if it seems that actually, he really does want to make the gargantuan and heroic effort to turn his life around, then I really do wish him - and you - all the encouragement and well-being you both need and deserve.

Don't ever feel you have to do this on your own.

The best first place, is Al-Anon. Then, always count on us. Hugs, hun.

 

PS: if you want a link to my buddy's Bi-Polarblogspot, where she has kept a careful written account of her experience, I'll PM you the link. It's interesting to say the least.