Isolde Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 This REALLY bothers me--it's as bad as the Madonna-Whore complex for women. People tend to typify the one kind as handsome, rich, sends thrills down every girl's spine, and then cheats on one after the other, breaking a chain of hearts as he cavorts through life on his motorcycle. Great for flings! Then the other kind is stable, secure, kind, loving, generous, and average looking but with a heart of gold... not exciting but filled with marriage potential. Look to him if you want to settle down. Oh, really? Could there POSSIBLY be anything in between?! Some people really irk me... As if there's no way to settle down with someone who can still be exciting and decently attractive and make you feel alive. I just feel such a duality is demeaning to men and makes them seem so simple.
carhill Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 There is *everything* in between. You're just regurgitating societal labels and stereotypes. I know handsome, rich guys who are incredibly stable and faithful and the "boring and stable and faithful" guys who aren't exactly the people they appear to be. I'm probably one of the latter
serial muse Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 This REALLY bothers me--it's as bad as the Madonna-Whore complex for women. People tend to typify the one kind as handsome, rich, sends thrills down every girl's spine, and then cheats on one after the other, breaking a chain of hearts as he cavorts through life on his motorcycle. Great for flings! Then the other kind is stable, secure, kind, loving, generous, and average looking but with a heart of gold... not exciting but filled with marriage potential. Look to him if you want to settle down. Oh, really? Could there POSSIBLY be anything in between?! Some people really irk me... As if there's no way to settle down with someone who can still be exciting and decently attractive and make you feel alive. I just feel such a duality is demeaning to men and makes them seem so simple. This is a great point! Agreed. Edited to add: Carhill, I thought the point was that she was rejecting those stereotypes and societal labels. Unless I misunderstood...
carhill Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Reading comprehension is on vacation this Friday I will endeavor to be the kind of man who actually reads the OP
serial muse Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Reading comprehension is on vacation this Friday I will endeavor to be the kind of man who actually reads the OP That's the best kind of person there is, man or woman! And in too short supply sometimes.
Trialbyfire Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 I totally agree Isolde. Every adult is responsible for moulding themselves. While nature and nurture have substantial impact on what kind of person you become, it's up to you to decide if you're content with it or not. If not, do something about it.
D-Jam Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Oh, really? Could there POSSIBLY be anything in between?! Some people really irk me... As if there's no way to settle down with someone who can still be exciting and decently attractive and make you feel alive. I just feel such a duality is demeaning to men and makes them seem so simple. I believe there are men out there who are handsome, exciting, wealthy, and they're all into commitment, love, and treat women well. However, the thing most women mistake is they believe there's one of those out there for every woman on the planet, when in actuality these men are very rare and barely ever single. It's like when I see guys who want women who look like models, but yet they have college degrees, careers, good work/life balance, no taste for "bad boys", and are totally down-to-Earth. These women do exist, but again...they're very very rare and barely ever single. If I ever sound like women only have two choices in life...handsome bad boy who treats women terribly OR the boring dull average looking decent guy...then it's really because the women I've aimed that towards are the ones who keep believing they're Carrie Bradshaw and they can get Mr. Big to commit to her...when they really keep ending up getting played. I never tell men or women to "settle" in life, but I tell them to BE REALISTIC. If you're the high paid female lawyer and want to marry up, but there are only a few men in town you would marry...and they are either in RLs or avoiding commitment, then don't complain or think someone's telling you to "settle" when they say to lower your standards and allow for more men to be in your dating life. If you're a man who is looking for that combo of hot looks with a brain and career, but all you find are hot airheads working retail, or average janes with careers...then don't complain when someone tells you to find a happy medium. If your selection criteria isn't bringing you results, then rethink it, or choose to be alone. My experiences have shown me that there are not two kinds of men out there, but that women need to accept that there isn't a hot, exciting, good income earning gentleman for every woman out there. They have to deal with guys who are too short, or don't make a big income, or baldness, or they aren't chiseled athletes, or live wild exciting lives. The only "two choices" any MAN OR WOMAN has in this world when it comes to dating is either to seek out a good mate based on what's available to you...or choose to be alone for life.
movingonandon Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 This REALLY bothers me--it's as bad as the Madonna-Whore complex for women. People tend to typify the one kind as handsome, rich, sends thrills down every girl's spine, and then cheats on one after the other, breaking a chain of hearts as he cavorts through life on his motorcycle. Great for flings! Then the other kind is stable, secure, kind, loving, generous, and average looking but with a heart of gold... not exciting but filled with marriage potential. Look to him if you want to settle down. Oh, really? Could there POSSIBLY be anything in between?! Some people really irk me... As if there's no way to settle down with someone who can still be exciting and decently attractive and make you feel alive. I just feel such a duality is demeaning to men and makes them seem so simple. Wow, my thoughts exactly. I've felt the pressure of the stereotype, and it has impacted the way I behave. As in you're almost afraid to be nice and sensitive for fear of being typecast as wimp/nice guy. I have major issues with sensitivity, and at least part of the reason my previous relationship disintegrated was because I was not sensitive enough. Part of the reason for this was a stupid concern over the stereotype being afraid that I'd come across as weak if i showed some softness. that's not the sole reason for my problems, but big part of it!! How moronic is this? Then i slid into the other extreme, i.e. being exclusively concerned about getting career'n'stuff in order, and completely ignoring all sorts of romantic concerns (again, because once you've been with somebody, getting your **** together is the "right thing to do" and the main priority for a mariage-leaning relationship etc.) (the unfortunate result of this stupid concern with being "right" was that I lost a woman who was warm and affectionate, and cute in public, and mega-slut in private, i.e. no madonawhore complex here ). Now that I've grown up a little, I see that I need not to slide into identity crisis in order to exhibit both types of traits, which is actually typical for most men! So finally i can be warm and affectionate and understanding one day, and panty-tearing selfish bastard the next day. But this type of thinking is still depressing and impairs relationships both for men and women.
movingonandon Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 I believe there are men out there who are handsome, exciting, wealthy, and they're all into commitment, love, and treat women well. However, the thing most women mistake is they believe there's one of those out there for every woman on the planet, when in actuality these men are very rare and barely ever single. It's like when I see guys who want women who look like models, but yet they have college degrees, careers, good work/life balance, no taste for "bad boys", and are totally down-to-Earth. These women do exist, but again...they're very very rare and barely ever single. If I ever sound like women only have two choices in life...handsome bad boy who treats women terribly OR the boring dull average looking decent guy...then it's really because the women I've aimed that towards are the ones who keep believing they're Carrie Bradshaw and they can get Mr. Big to commit to her...when they really keep ending up getting played. I never tell men or women to "settle" in life, but I tell them to BE REALISTIC. If you're the high paid female lawyer and want to marry up, but there are only a few men in town you would marry...and they are either in RLs or avoiding commitment, then don't complain or think someone's telling you to "settle" when they say to lower your standards and allow for more men to be in your dating life. If you're a man who is looking for that combo of hot looks with a brain and career, but all you find are hot airheads working retail, or average janes with careers...then don't complain when someone tells you to find a happy medium. If your selection criteria isn't bringing you results, then rethink it, or choose to be alone. My experiences have shown me that there are not two kinds of men out there, but that women need to accept that there isn't a hot, exciting, good income earning gentleman for every woman out there. They have to deal with guys who are too short, or don't make a big income, or baldness, or they aren't chiseled athletes, or live wild exciting lives. The only "two choices" any MAN OR WOMAN has in this world when it comes to dating is either to seek out a good mate based on what's available to you...or choose to be alone for life. One reason why being "realistic" is undeservedly equated with "settling" is simply immaturity. Way too many people (both men and women) approach dating with the extremely naive idea that they will find somebody "perfect" who will take care of *all their needs* (i.e. in terms of appearance, character traits, financial status etc.). This is extremely immature for two reasons: 1) this attitude does NOT treat the other person as a *person*, but as some sort of perfect doll, or gadget that fixes your life; 2) it simplye means ignoring the basic fact that real people come with real problems. everybody has character, career, etc. issues they are working on. an immature person (i've been that one... unfortunately) becomes increasingly upset about the other person not meeting all their expectations (not pretty enough, not serious about their career enough, whatever), and the relationship falls apart sooner or later. A realistic and mature relationship is one acknowledging this in both parties and sharing the commitment not to let them get in the way too much. There are very few things that are true deal breakers and cannot be worked out between two commited individuals. The type of thinking that you will find somebody "perfect" is extremely hard to combat. Even trying to do all i preach above, I almost lost a perfectly nice girl (the one I'm currently dating), but assuming that i will inevitably "do better". I probably could, but why bother when I have a nice, honest and perfectly decent person right in front of me?? And the more time i spend with her, the more i like her... She's pretty but not a knockout, has some professional goals, but will never be something big in her career. Not to be with her because of such reasons would be the stupidest thing on earth.
fral945 Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 D-Jam described it pretty well. Most men are something in between. The problem is many women have unreasonable expectations and think they will find both. They get frustrated when they realize that is a rare breed. It’s very rare to have a rich, dark, tall, and handsome man who also happens to be stable, secure, kind, loving, generous, and marriage material. I’m neither rich nor tall, just average height, and dark, with handsome being debatable. However, I have more qualities of the second person you describe. I compare it to men wanting an attractive model type girlfriend who is like a porn star in bed and also happens to be kind, loving, stable, sane, reasonable, and accountable. I know many women that embody a mix of those traits, but few women that meet all those criteria.
Trialbyfire Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Gotta' love the prevailing attitude that there isn't a guy out there you'll feel is wonderful, in all the important ways. Sure, everyone has flaws but if he hits all your high points, the rest can be overcome. When I say he hits all your high points, this means your needs, not necessarily all your wants. Settling is something people have to decide if they want to do. It's not a prerequisite or a must, to having a happy existence. Isolde, there are men out there who are exciting and worth spending time with. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. I've dated enough of them.
movingonandon Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 I compare it to men wanting an attractive model type girlfriend who is like a porn star in bed and also happens to be kind, loving, stable, sane, reasonable, and accountable. I know many women that embody a mix of those traits, but few women that meet all those criteria. My ex WAS: pornstar in bed, kind, loving WAS NOT: stable, sane, reasonable, and accountable the point being is that searching for that perfect one is a secondary effort; the most imporant thing is to decide which traits are important (and then not whine when they don't also come with many other "extras"...); basicaly, we should stop being such crybabies
fral945 Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 My ex WAS: pornstar in bed, kind, loving WAS NOT: stable, sane, reasonable, and accountable Sounds like mine.
Geishawhelk Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 "Women may have many faults, But men have only Two. Everything the choose to say, And everything they do."
IrishCarBomb Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Seriously!!! Why two types of men?!?!? Everyone knows there's only one type of man.
fral945 Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 "Women may have many faults, But men have only Two. Everything the choose to say, And everything they do." And when we don't say anything or do anything, women still complain!
D-Jam Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Gotta' love the prevailing attitude that there isn't a guy out there you'll feel is wonderful, in all the important ways. Sure, everyone has flaws but if he hits all your high points, the rest can be overcome. When I say he hits all your high points, this means your needs, not necessarily all your wants. But to me that's being realistic. You have a certain few things that you deem "must haves", and many many more things that are "nice if they have it, but optional". You're not one of the many men or women out there with the long laundry list of "must haves" who complain they can't find a decent person...because really no one can meet that long list of credentials. If you find someone who fits most or all your criteria, then good for you. Seriously. I wish you well and congratulations on finding the person for you. As I say over and over on these boards...if your selection criteria seems to only find you with little or no results...then you might be thinking unrealistically. If it seems every man or woman in your pool of datable singles cannot meet your criteria, then either rethink the criteria, look further than the pool, or settle on being alone for life. I don't believe every man who is handsome, successful, and great with the ladies is instantly a lying cheating abusive bad boy. I don't tell anyone to settle in life, but to make sure they aren't the reason why they're single and alone. The types who think no one is ever "good enough" for them.
Geishawhelk Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 And when we don't say anything or do anything, women still complain! Holy S**t we got a fast learner, gurlz!!
Dexter Morgan Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 This REALLY bothers me--it's as bad as the Madonna-Whore complex for women. People tend to typify the one kind as handsome, rich, sends thrills down every girl's spine, and then cheats on one after the other, breaking a chain of hearts as he cavorts through life on his motorcycle. Great for flings! Then the other kind is stable, secure, kind, loving, generous, and average looking but with a heart of gold... not exciting but filled with marriage potential. Look to him if you want to settle down. Oh, really? Could there POSSIBLY be anything in between?! Nope, not really. I'd say that is fairly accurate. Some people really irk me Now really, why would this irk you? Is it because you truly want to believe a man that is a rich adonis isn't full of himself and likes to spread his seed to as many women as possible because he think he is god's gift to women?
Author Isolde Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Oh of course people have to compromise on their ideals. It's just people say go for someone unattractive and boring because he'll treat you like a queen, I say there's men out there that may not be 10/10 in looks and income but still attractive and sexy. I'm just railing against this stereotype that you have to settle for someone you don't find attractive and exciting, inside and out. That's not fair, and it doesn't give the man the sex life he deserves. Settling down is supposed to be about being comfortable, not about being dead.
Author Isolde Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Nope, not really. I'd say that is fairly accurate. Now really, why would this irk you? Is it because you truly want to believe a man that is a rich adonis isn't full of himself and likes to spread his seed to as many women as possible because he think he is god's gift to women? This is like saying that women are either high maintenance porn stars or completely dowdy. The whole point of my post was to say you can avoid the "rich adonis" type without actually going to the other extreme and marrying someone unattractive.
Geishawhelk Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Nope, not really. I'd say that is fairly accurate. There's a third kind..... "Mamma's boy"......
Author Isolde Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 I'd rather have a geeky guy than someone who looks like Brad Pitt (I actually find BP kind of ugly, along with most mainstream "hot" types). But you can be a little geeky and kind of attractive too. There is such a rich spectrum of people out there.
Trialbyfire Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Okay, okay, I'll fall into line. There are only two kinds of men out there. The ones who can get into your pants and others that can't. Everything else is subjective!
Author Isolde Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Okay, okay, I'll fall into line. There are only two kinds of men out there. The ones who can get into your pants and others that can't. Everything else is subjective! Agreed
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