Should a man be able to support a wife and kid temporarily?

[IfWishesWereHorses]

no manolo blahniks

 

What is this NJ?

[norajane]

no manolo blahniks

 

What is this NJ?

 

Very expensive shoes, made famous on Sex and the City. Manolo Blahnik is the designer.

 

I use it as a catch-all category name for caviar-lifestyle frivolous expenses, which can include status clothing, as well as things like the latest in high-end electronics or other non-essential toys.

[berrieh]

I find it interesting the salaries that you (generally speaking in this thread) would like to have prior to having children.

 

I know cost of living has increased since I was born (I am 24 now), but I know my parents were not well off at the time. My mom didn't work and my dad made around $30k; they had two kids. We didn't get everything we wanted, but we turned out fine.

 

I guess my viewpoint is that it's a matter of sacrifice for the things that you want most. It may be difficult but it's not impossible. Maybe I am too optimistic?

 

It depends on where you live. It wasn't until my mother & stepfather combined started making $100K+ that my family really seemed comfortable...even with only one kid. But I don't like debt and believe in having a comfy savings net. And, since they didn't reach that mark till I was almost ready to leave for college, there was no "berrieh college fund" and I had to basically put myself through college and sacrifice my dreams of an elite Ivy education.

 

I want to be able to put my kids through college anywhere they want to go. I don't want to have massive debt. I want to have a comfortable retirement and own a home of my own, 2 cars, and never worry about paying for bills or food. I don't see how one could do that on 30K in a major city...it really does require quite a bit more, especially if you want to put money away for college.

[movingonandon]

...when they have their first child.

 

I had been seeing a woman, in her late 20's....I'm in my mid 30's. She said she is looking for a guy that can support her when she has a child for at least 2 years (so she can take time off of work). It makes sense, because if you send a child to day care, appaerntly that time in a childs life is really impressionable...and that using a daycare to care of a child is not healthy.

 

And it's good to have the mother stay home and take care of the kid

 

But she's wanting to find a man that is able to support her and her child DURING that time she's taking care of her kid.

 

Now, this is not a "gold digging" attitude,but it does sound logical...but I'm not sure If I am able to do that at MY income level.

 

Is it too m uch for her to ask...or is she being reasonable?

 

Part of me thinks it's not too much to ask, but I don't know if I'd be up to the job at my income.

 

I'd be very careful here. 2 years is way too long. 1 year is enough (and of course you should be able to support her during that time, though I'd personally advocate at least part time working for her even during that time).

 

Daycare is good for kids as soon as they turn 1. the reason I'd be careful with this attitude is that what assurances do you have that 2 years will not turn "till the kid is in school", then till the kid is in high school, and then till the kid is in college?

 

I don't want to project my fears onto your situation, just share them. basically, women who treat motherhood as a mission are bad news. It's a kid, it's not a rocket science to raise one, and mother nature does most of the work if you don't interfere too much. the kid is one of the outcomes of your relationship, not one of the building blocks. You will do all you have to do to keep it healthy, happy, and educated, but it does not need to occupy every second of your or her life. It would be bad both for the kid and for the relationship.

[Dexter Morgan]

Now, this is not a "gold digging" attitude,but it does sound logical...but I'm not sure If I am able to do that at MY income level.

 

No, its not gold digging at all. After having my xW stay home with the kids, I can say I think they turned out better than if they went to daycare from day one. Not saying that kids going to daycare are going to turn out bad, but I had piece of mind knowing they were home with their mother while I was out working. There were things we had to sacrifice with only one income, but it was doable and the rewards outweighed the sacrifices.

[Gremio]

No, its not gold digging at all. After having my xW stay home with the kids, I can say I think they turned out better than if they went to daycare from day one. Not saying that kids going to daycare are going to turn out bad, but I had piece of mind knowing they were home with their mother while I was out working. There were things we had to sacrifice with only one income, but it was doable and the rewards outweighed the sacrifices.

 

I can't send PMs so I have no way to message you.

 

Did you see episode 11 yet? I can't wait until Sunday!

[Dexter Morgan]

I can't send PMs so I have no way to message you.

 

Did you see episode 11 yet? I can't wait until Sunday!

 

Yup, saw it. I'm dissappointed that there isn't a 2 hour finale.

 

Ok, sorry for the TJ, back to the regularly scheduled topic.

[berrieh]

I don't want to project my fears onto your situation, just share them. basically, women who treat motherhood as a mission are bad news. It's a kid, it's not a rocket science to raise one, and mother nature does most of the work if you don't interfere too much. the kid is one of the outcomes of your relationship, not one of the building blocks. You will do all you have to do to keep it healthy, happy, and educated, but it does not need to occupy every second of your or her life. It would be bad both for the kid and for the relationship.

 

Mother nature does not do most of the work in raising a kid, and it's harder than rocket science to be a good parent, I think. Some kids are easier than others, but the idea that you can parent on auto-pilot is extremely dangerous...working or not.

 

I firmly believe this is a terrible attitude about children; if you have a kid, they do occupy basically every second of your life, or at least just about. If you have a kid, you are bringing a helpless human being into the world who will depend on you for everything (financial, emotional, intellectual, etc) at first and only slowly be weaned into depending on you for less and less... Being a good parent, dad or mom, will be the hardest job you ever face, and it's a 24/7 job for at least 18 years.

 

I am not saying mothers should not work (mine did, and she worked the entire time since my 2nd week of life, but I was able to stay at my grandma's when I was a baby because we had extended family in the same town; I do not have that luxury as an adult), because, frankly, I could not be out of work that long, and I think that working sets a good example for children, as long as the parents are able to come up with a plan together to balance their careers, while putting their kids and family first.

 

But to act as though being a parent is easy or not time consuming is a dangerous thing to say...

[Meet 4 Coffee]

A man who wants a wife and a child will work harder so he gets that. It is up to the man to work harder and get promoted, excel in his job,upgrade to a higher paying job,to be able to support his wife and child.

If he isn't willing to do this, then he isn't willing to have a family.

[blind_otter]

Shop at the Goodwill for children clothes and such. Thrift shops as well

 

IMO it is a waste of money to buy new clothes for an infant - my son grew out of a lot of his clothes before he even wore them! I sent them to goodwill still with the tags on some of them! You see that all the time in second hand shops - baby clothes with the tags still on them.

 

I guess my viewpoint is that it's a matter of sacrifice for the things that you want most. It may be difficult but it's not impossible. Maybe I am too optimistic?

 

I really thought I would go back to work after 12 weeks of maternity leave. I really liked my job, and I didn't think I was cut out to be a SAHM. Then, I gave birth to my son and held him in my arms and looked into his eyes. He looked back at me, completely trusting, as if to say, "I place myself completely and utterly in your care and am totally at your mercy." During those first 12 weeks he hit a lot of milestones and I began to wonder what else he would accomplish and achieve in the coming months of rapid development - while in the care of someone else who was looking after 5 or 6 or even 9 other infants, competing for attention?

 

When one parent stays at home, you do make some sacrifices, but not really. We rarely eat out, now - I make almost everything at home, even bread, and now babyfood. But when you think about it, it's better for you, isn't it?

 

I don't buy a lot of new things, but I still get what I need plus a few extras every now and then.

 

I don't want to project my fears onto your situation, just share them. basically, women who treat motherhood as a mission are bad news. It's a kid, it's not a rocket science to raise one, and mother nature does most of the work if you don't interfere too much. the kid is one of the outcomes of your relationship, not one of the building blocks. You will do all you have to do to keep it healthy, happy, and educated, but it does not need to occupy every second of your or her life. It would be bad both for the kid and for the relationship.

 

I think this opinion is obviously one from someone who has not been blessed with a little one.

 

Mother nature does NOT do all of the work, let me tell you. IMO it is the duty of the parent to do everything in their power to help create a person who will contribute something good and positive to society. The sad truth is, there are tons of children out there who were basically left to parent themselves - most of them are tied up in our correctional system at some or many points in their lives.

 

Children MUST have interaction on a pretty constant basis - there have been numerous studies on this, especially with children in eastern europe who lived in orphanages. If they are not touched and talked to they experience severe, sometimes permanent, developmental delays.

 

A child is not an outcome - a child is a longterm committment, and a person in and of themselves!

 

My mother went to school when I was a baby, and went to work a bit after I went to school - I was the third and last child, she was a SAHM for most of my older sisters' childhoods. And when my mom went to work, my Dad was retired. I was always blessed with a parent at home and I loved it and grew very close with my father. He made me a hot breakfast every morning and packed a lunch for me every day. He drove me to school, accompanied me on field trips, and picked me up each day. When I was sick, he was there to take care of me. He helped me with my schoolwork, talked to me about everything from ancient history to current events and philosophy. My Dad DID occupy most of his time caring for his children, and I feel completely blessed because of it - his interest and care did NOT hurt me in any way, it made my life richer and happier.

 

I have the conviction that parenting is one of the most important jobs on the planet. You have the responsibility to contribute to the development of a little person who could grow up to be great. It is hard work and a full time job - working parents just have TWO full time jobs. When my S/O gets home from work he always says he's about to start his second shift!

[Bells]

A man who wants a wife and a child will work harder so he gets that. It is up to the man to work harder and get promoted, excel in his job,upgrade to a higher paying job,to be able to support his wife and child.

 

It is up to the man.....

Very laughable statement.

 

Easier said than done.....esp with our current economic situation. Some men work their asses off and get some snot nosed kid who is the son of the company's President to slip in under you instead.

[Meet 4 Coffee]

Not really. If you are good enough and have the drive and the ambition, you will get it done.

If you don't have what it takes, don't get married and have a baby.

It's that simple.

[movingonandon]

Mother nature does not do most of the work in raising a kid, and it's harder than rocket science to be a good parent, I think. Some kids are easier than others, but the idea that you can parent on auto-pilot is extremely dangerous...working or not.

 

I firmly believe this is a terrible attitude about children; if you have a kid, they do occupy basically every second of your life, or at least just about. If you have a kid, you are bringing a helpless human being into the world who will depend on you for everything (financial, emotional, intellectual, etc) at first and only slowly be weaned into depending on you for less and less... Being a good parent, dad or mom, will be the hardest job you ever face, and it's a 24/7 job for at least 18 years.

 

I am not saying mothers should not work (mine did, and she worked the entire time since my 2nd week of life, but I was able to stay at my grandma's when I was a baby because we had extended family in the same town; I do not have that luxury as an adult), because, frankly, I could not be out of work that long, and I think that working sets a good example for children, as long as the parents are able to come up with a plan together to balance their careers, while putting their kids and family first.

 

But to act as though being a parent is easy or not time consuming is a dangerous thing to say...

 

Well obviously I'm not advocating neglect. This is more of a reaction against parents that OBSESS over their children and raise spoiled wimps that are given everything and cannot cope with anything.

 

Yes, I don't have children, but I'm incredibly impressed by how one of my best friends handles his kid. Both he and his wife work full time and have no extended family. the kid goes to day care, they spend all of the free time hanging out as a family, where everybody's needs are taken care of. Not as an endless show focused on the kid. Basically, he and his wfe are the exact same chilled people they were before having a kid, not some *******s that are de-facto bossed around by their kid--> Tell me suburbia is not filled with sorry excuses for parents like this!

[porter218]

...when they have their first child.

 

I had been seeing a woman, in her late 20's....I'm in my mid 30's. She said she is looking for a guy that can support her when she has a child for at least 2 years (so she can take time off of work). It makes sense, because if you send a child to day care, appaerntly that time in a childs life is really impressionable...and that using a daycare to care of a child is not healthy.

 

And it's good to have the mother stay home and take care of the kid

 

But she's wanting to find a man that is able to support her and her child DURING that time she's taking care of her kid.

 

Now, this is not a "gold digging" attitude,but it does sound logical...but I'm not sure If I am able to do that at MY income level.

 

Is it too m uch for her to ask...or is she being reasonable?

 

Part of me thinks it's not too much to ask, but I don't know if I'd be up to the job at my income.

It would be nice... but if you find your soul mate and he can't live up to that then it shouldn't be a deal breaker. Hell I had to go back to work after my 2nd child was 7 days old. But in my case I was able to count on close family to care for my kids when both my H and myself are at work. being a SAHM is the ideal but life doesn't always permit it.

[Trialbyfire]

After reading this thread and a few other threads, this kind of circles back to what Isolde said in another thread.

 

If a man wants to be the sole bread winner, he'd better step up to the plate with his career so he can support someone properly. If he can't do it, then his attitude had better change or he's going to find himself unable to attract anyone.

[porter218]

After reading this thread and a few other threads, this kind of circles back to what Isolde said in another thread.

 

If a man wants to be the sole bread winner, he'd better step up to the plate with his career so he can support someone properly. If he can't do it, then his attitude had better change or he's going to find himself unable to attract anyone.

What about situations like my H. He has worked his arse off trying to make enough to support our family but just can't cut it. He has really tried everything short of selling drugs to support us but nothing pans out to more that about ~$30k/yr and that is with him hardly ever at home to help with the kids. He has honestly tried but he just can't make as much as me and with four kids(2 together and 2 of his) to support we just can't stretch $30k enough. Some people jumped on me in another thread for going back to work 20hrs a week being a new mom but I am thinking people don't understand that not everybody is blessed with the same 'earning power'. It isn't always due to lack of effort.

[Trialbyfire]

What about situations like my H. He has worked his arse off trying to make enough to support our family but just can't cut it. He has really tried everything short of selling drugs to support us but nothing pans out to more that about ~$30k/yr and that is with him hardly ever at home to help with the kids. He has honestly tried but he just can't make as much as me and with four kids(2 together and 2 of his) to support we just can't stretch $30k enough. Some people jumped on me in another thread for going back to work 20hrs a week being a new mom but I am thinking people don't understand that not everybody is blessed with the same 'earning power'. It isn't always due to lack of effort.

What's your husband's attitude about working mothers?

[porter218]

What's your husband's attitude about working mothers?

It isn't his ideal and it hurts his pride as well but he has little room to say anything when he knows I can make more then triple his income by working a third or half the hours he does.

[Meet 4 Coffee]

It isn't his ideal and it hurts his pride as well but he has little room to say anything when he knows I can make more then triple his income by working a third or half the hours he does.

 

Yeah but look at what you have gotten - a husband who cheated on you. Maybe you should have set your standards higher. Sorry.

[Meet 4 Coffee]

Men who want to support their wives and not work while she stays home and does the mom thing, also whine about getting "screwed" in the divorce court, not wanting to pay her a dime when the settlement comes, no retirement, nothing.

 

Well, guess what? She now has no retirement of her own built up and no earning power since you took that away from her by not allowing her to work, and now it is impossible to find work, even if she is educated because she is older and inexperienced on the work force.....but of course....men are always the ones screwed in divorce court, aren't they? Ummm,whatever.

[berrieh]

Well obviously I'm not advocating neglect. This is more of a reaction against parents that OBSESS over their children and raise spoiled wimps that are given everything and cannot cope with anything.

 

Yes, I don't have children, but I'm incredibly impressed by how one of my best friends handles his kid. Both he and his wife work full time and have no extended family. the kid goes to day care, they spend all of the free time hanging out as a family, where everybody's needs are taken care of. Not as an endless show focused on the kid. Basically, he and his wfe are the exact same chilled people they were before having a kid, not some *******s that are de-facto bossed around by their kid--> Tell me suburbia is not filled with sorry excuses for parents like this!

 

Day care sucks. I remember the few times my grandparents were too ill to take care of me (my Mom's the youngest, so they were pretty old). I hated day care, and I remember it well. There may be some good day cares, but they are expensive... So, that's the trade-off, and it really depends upon the woman's earning potential. Young children especially (before they are school age or even pre-school age) need constant stimulation to become high achieving students. In too many day cares, they will not get that stimulation.

 

However, in this day and age, there are a myriad of choices beyond "working full time and putting the kid in daycare" and "not working."

 

I cannot imagine anyone being the same person after having a kid, and I wouldn't advocate it. I think that if you bring a living human being into this world, they do, in a way, have a responsibility to "obsess" on that living human being to some degree---they are completely responsible for the kid after all, responsible for another human being, for quite a few years, until the child begins to take more and more responsibility for themselves.

 

Focusing on a kid isn't spoiling them. Kids deserve their parent's attention, and they deserve to be the most important thing in their parent's world. Not the only thing, but the most important thing. No one should bring a child into this world if they have priorities that are more important than that child.

[Trialbyfire]

I think people confuse quality time with quantity of time. When a SAHM is busy at home, doing domestic chores, where is the focus on the kids? It's no different than not being there at all or working from home and having domestic help come in. The odd comment here and there, isn't going to necessarily raise effective children.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that men who want SAHS, have as much concern about the children v. personal luxuries of having someone take care of everything for them.

[flc]

Men who want to support their wives and not work while she stays home and does the mom thing, also whine about getting "screwed" in the divorce court, not wanting to pay her a dime when the settlement comes, no retirement, nothing.

 

Well, guess what? She now has no retirement of her own built up and no earning power since you took that away from her by not allowing her to work, and now it is impossible to find work, even if she is educated because she is older and inexperienced on the work force.....but of course....men are always the ones screwed in divorce court, aren't they? Ummm,whatever.

 

How about the men who would like their wives to work to bring the family income up but he wife wants to stay at home? What about being the sole earner for 20 years sacrificing things because your wife wants to be a SAHM and then she says she no longer loves you and wants a divorce. Then you give her 50% of the assets and 30% of your income as alimony for the rest of her life while she goes and now gets a job and new boyfriend.

 

This happens to women as well but proportional more to men since they are still generally the higher earner in the family. So it is not always whining and I think less and less men want SAHM.

[stillafool]

To the OP I don't see anything wrong with your girlfriend wanting to be a SAHM for 2 years if she marries. But, I have news for you she will want to stay home longer than that. She isn't going to want to leave her 2 year old and go back to work. All of this is fine as long as right now she has a really good, high paying job where she works like hell to save up for those 2 years off. This will show you that she is willing to do her part to afford that lifestyle prior to marriage and kids.

[Dexter Morgan]

Men who want to support their wives and not work while she stays home and does the mom thing, also whine about getting "screwed" in the divorce court, not wanting to pay her a dime when the settlement comes, no retirement, nothing.

 

Well, guess what? She now has no retirement of her own built up and no earning power since you took that away from her by not allowing her to work

 

Uh, maybe you missed this little tidbit in his first post:

 

"She said she is looking for a guy that can support her when she has a child for at least 2 years (so she can take time off of work). "

 

AND

 

"But she's wanting to find a man that is able to support her and her child DURING that time she's taking care of her kid."

 

He didn't take anything away from her. She wanted it that way because she didn't want to work.

 

I was in the same situation. I wanted my xW to work, but she did not want to. So I sacrificed so that she could stay home with the kids. I was honoring HER wishes.

 

In divorce she did ask for alimony. My attorney said in the negotiations, "you have a degree of which my client paid for do you not?" She said "yes". Then my attorney said, "then it looks like you have some applications to start filling out."