15 years and counting

[ekimballde]

I just joined this Forum tonight. I'm up late again, unable to sleep because my marriage is troubling me - this is a pretty common occurrence. I typed "lack of trust in marriage" in Google and here I am. I'll try not to make this War and Peace (in my husband's case it's more like War and Piece).

 

I fell madly in love with my husband 17 years ago. I was in a dead marriage to a cold, nasty man and the man I loved was separated. It was a mad time, I was completely ruled by my overwhelming feelings for him. I left my marriage (my son was only three at the time) and became what I wryly called my husband's Number Two Concubine. He had a terrible reputation with women, I knew it, my friends knew it, even my ex husband knew it, but I couldn't stay away from him. It was a Force of Nature.

 

I tolerated being part of his harem for a year, it was all right with me, because I wanted him any way I could have him, and I also knew in the practical side of my brain that I wasn't ready for anything more substantive. This was only the second time in my life that I had really been in love, the first was with my high school sweetheart, I had to leave him because he developed a very serious addiction to drugs. I figured I'd fall in love again - it only took 20 years.

 

My husband is a real charmer, and he knows how to please a woman. He's funny, attentive and has an enormous amount of charisma. Dangerous. He looks very much like Sean Connery - you get the idea. Wherever he goes women practically throw their panties at him. But I got him, oh lucky me. We got married 15 years ago this month, he swore I was the only woman he wanted, but oh baby.

 

Has he cheated on me since we've been married? I don't know. He did cheat on me with one of his lovers just before we got engaged. I found out because she called me and told me. I made him meet with both of us and told him point blank that I wasn't going to play this game, and to make his choice. He told me I was the one he loved, I almost left him then (I should have), but he proposed, you get the idea.

 

Since we've been married I've found love letters to him I didn't write, seen women throw themselves at him IN FRONT OF ME, hear about how his patients come onto him (he's an eye doctor - just imagine it - look into my eyes darling...), and even this past Thanksgiving my brother's girlfriend winked at him and called him "you handsome devil" right in front of me while I was serving dessert.

 

I don't have a smoking gun, I know women have been after him, but I don't have any proof of infidelity. He swears I'm the only woman he wants and loves, but, well, once a cheater, always a cheater, right?

 

I'm writing this because he told me this morning that his ex wife wants to "get together" supposedly to "talk about the children". Uhhhhhh, their kids are in their freaking forties, he and his ex have been divorced for over 20 years, but she still makes a play every now and then. I blew up and said enough already, NO. Talk to her on the phone for God's sake. THEN he told me one of the buxom beauties in his office told him she knows I'm jealous of him. Uhhhhh, I've never spoken with her beyond, "Hello, is the Doctor available", so how would SHE know, and why should she care?

 

Honestly, I feel stuck between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea. We love each other, he has all these women after him, and I feel like a fool. I've considered getting a detective to uncover proof, but part of me doesn't want to know, part of me wants to live in this fool's paradise full of color and light and passion, the part that's afraid life without him will be only shades of gray for a long, long time. I know how long it's going to take for me to get over him. I'm like one of those rare cacti that flower once every 100 years - I know I'll never be in love again.

 

Another major wrinkle - he's Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He's so kind and loving, then if I do something he doesn't like or he doesn't get his way, he morphs into a nasty, sadistic emotional abuser - he creates the wound then comes around with the bandaid. Once the storm passes he's all hearts and flowers and charm again. Did anyone say... S&M? Or maybe I'm hearing...Sociopath? I know, it's not good. I'm actually seeing a divorce attorney tomorrow, a woman. I seem to have very poor judgment where men are concerned, I have to work on that.

 

Our 15th wedding anniversary is in two weeks, I feel like I've put up with this stuff long enough, even though it's going to be really tough on my own, I have too much respect for myself and my moral and ethical universe to continue this relationship.

 

So, I'm awake, watching old movies and trying to figure some way out of this pain. Thank you for listening, I know this was a long one.

[pelicanpreacher]

 

I was in a dead marriage to a cold, nasty man and the man I loved was separated. It was a mad time, I was completely ruled by my overwhelming feelings for him....

 

This was only the second time in my life that I had really been in love, the first was with my high school sweetheart, I had to leave him because he developed a very serious addiction to drugs. I figured I'd fall in love again - it only took 20 years....

 

My husband is a real charmer, and he knows how to please a woman. My husband is a real charmer, and he knows how to please a woman. He's funny, attentive and has an enormous amount of charisma. Dangerous....

 

Another major wrinkle - he's Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He's so kind and loving, then if I do something he doesn't like or he doesn't get his way, he morphs into a nasty, sadistic emotional abuser - he creates the wound then comes around with the bandaid. Once the storm passes he's all hearts and flowers and charm again. Did anyone say... S&M? Or maybe I'm hearing...Sociopath? I know, it's not good. I'm actually seeing a divorce attorney tomorrow, a woman. I seem to have very poor judgment where men are concerned, I have to work on that....

 

 

Do you recognize the same patterns I see with the men you seem to gravitate towards and the behavior you exhibit?

[Geishawhelk]

I fell madly in love with my husband ....and became what I wryly called my husband's Number Two Concubine. He had a terrible reputation with women, I knew it, my friends knew it, even my ex husband knew it, but I couldn't stay away from him. It was a Force of Nature.

 

There's your first Red Flag, right there.

 

My husband is a real charmer, and he knows how to please a woman. He's funny, attentive and has an enormous amount of charisma.

 

....And the second one....

 

Has he cheated on me since we've been married? I don't know. He did cheat on me with one of his lovers just before we got engaged.

 

This one's massive and flapping in a hurricane....

 

Since we've been married I've found love letters to him I didn't write, seen women throw themselves at him IN FRONT OF ME, hear about how his patients come onto him (he's an eye doctor - just imagine it - look into my eyes darling...), and even this past Thanksgiving my brother's girlfriend winked at him and called him "you handsome devil" right in front of me while I was serving dessert.

 

And here's the fourth one.....

 

......once a cheater, always a cheater, right?

Yiu're actually waving the fifth one......

 

Another major wrinkle - he's Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He's so kind and loving, then if I do something he doesn't like or he doesn't get his way, he morphs into a nasty, sadistic emotional abuser - he creates the wound then comes around with the bandaid. Once the storm passes he's all hearts and flowers and charm again. Did anyone say... S&M? Or maybe I'm hearing...Sociopath?

 

Have you ever seen football matches, where huge sections of the crowd actually pass a massive flag over their heads..... big red ones.....?

 

 

I know, it's not good. I'm actually seeing a divorce attorney tomorrow, a woman. I seem to have very poor judgment where men are concerned, I have to work on that.

 

Sounding a resounding jubilant fanfare.....

 

Our 15th wedding anniversary is in two weeks, I feel like I've put up with this stuff long enough, even though it's going to be really tough on my own, I have too much respect for myself and my moral and ethical universe to continue this relationship.

 

Yay - blooming - You!!

 

It's either joint MC, where he's going to have to do an awful lot of stepping up to the plate - or you're going to have to break the self-destructive cycle.

 

I personally know which one I'd recommend.

 

Life alone, doesn't mean life lonely.

[ekimballde]

Thank you so much for your very insightful responses (and to my friend across the sea, you're FUNNY!). Yes, I DO see the pattern, my father was a raving angry alcoholic, my first love became an addict, my first husband was a rageaholic and my second is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I often thought I was playing a marital game of Mr. Potato Head (do you know that game? You have plastic potato with holes in it and you can change the eyes, ears and other features but in the end it's still a potato).

 

We had joint marriage counseling for years, the upshot of it was our therapist (a very good one) said I had to decide what I could put up with and move on, one way or another. Good advice. I think I'm finally going to follow it. My estranged husband does have many good qualities, but...he's very inconsistent, lies easily, loves women, has major issues with control and ethics, etc. etc. He tends to charm everyone, including our therapist - but our therapist never saw my husband in his Mr. Hyde incarnation.

 

I'm not really that frightened of being alone, as in without a man. If this happens (my appt. with the attorney is in an hour) my biggest concern is that I will be, well, sad and poor. I have no job, I haven't worked in over ten years, and I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, so my ability to work full-time is probably not there, part-time is possible. The only place I can live is in our vacation home in the middle of nowhere, since it is paid for in full and maintenance costs are very low. I would have to leave everything I've known for decades and live in a very isolated place, just me and my cat. At 55 I'm not as "marketable" as I used to be in the dating scene, so I'm not deluding myself with thinking men will be falling out of the rafters in front of me.

 

I honestly don't WANT another man unless and until I can make a good, healthy choice, and right now and for the foreseeable future my main interest is getting myself free from this mess and learning how to be a strong woman on my own. I think this will also send a very good signal to my 20-year-old son, who has seen the two father figures in his life treat women either cruelly or inconsistently and immaturely.

 

I know this is the best thing, but it's hard. My husband tried to get cuddly this morning and do his best penitent little boy act, and I calmly put his hand aside and said, "No. No more of that. No more touching." He's pretty scared right now, I think he knows I'm serious.

 

I am. I'm also REALLY, REALLY scared, but I need to take the next step away from this cycle.

 

Thank you so much for being there. Wish me luck, patience, forbearance and resolve.

[quankanne]

frankly, he sounds like a big old bully, using his charm to entice people, then blowing up when he doesn't get his way. And your counselor is right, only you can decide how much to put up with from people. Think of it like this: Would you let any of your friends or acquaintances or even people in the work sector (from back when you were working) treat you like this? Why not? Now, why should a family member be able to get away with crap like that?

 

my guess is that he's scared because he realizes he's not in control of the situation, and he doesn't like that because it's not how things normally are. But good for you for sticking to your guns.

 

at this, I believe if you've been married for a certain number of years (my sister says it's 10), you automatically get part of his pension or benefits if you divorce ... it seems like the law doesn't punish a long-time spouse esp. if (s)he was out of the workforce for so long to care for home and family. Check with a divorce lawyer or even a battered women's shelter in your state to be sure.

 

now, are you receiving any kind of help through personal counseling? Because this is a lot to have to deal with, especially with what sounds like psychological abuse from your spouse. Be sure to take care of yourself, both physically AND psychologically, because you'll need the strength to deal with whatever crap he chooses to flick your way. And remember, you've got people behind you, pulling for you and praying for you here at the 'Shack

 

quank,

who would love to use your Potato Head analogy in her signature line!

[LakesideDream]

I honestly don't WANT another man unless and until I can make a good, healthy choice, and right now and for the foreseeable future my main interest is getting myself free from this mess and learning how to be a strong woman on my own. I think this will also send a very good signal to my 20-year-old son, who has seen the two father figures in his life treat women either cruelly or inconsistently and immaturely.

 

I know this is the best thing, but it's hard. My husband tried to get cuddly this morning and do his best penitent little boy act, and I calmly put his hand aside and said, "No. No more of that. No more touching." He's pretty scared right now, I think he knows I'm serious.

 

I am. I'm also REALLY, REALLY scared, but I need to take the next step away from this cycle.

 

Thank you so much for being there. Wish me luck, patience, forbearance and resolve.

 

 

Ekim, Tread very, very carefully here. The step it appears you are about to make (lawyer/divorce) is a final one. It does not sound like your husband is someone who will "go with the flow".

 

Missing in your missive is any description of the "nuts and bolts" of your life. You do sound like you are in a comfortable position right now. With the current shape the world is in this is not a good time to be facing the world alone with your medical condition and lack of work experiance. That may be just what you are about to do. You may not get the support from the courts you are expecting.

 

You did mention that you have no evidence that your husband is cheating on you, just a feeling. All those years of counseling too. Could it be that he's just a self serving, narcssist, who isn't a cheater, who loves you but isn't always the nicest person to go around? Don't forget that you will be leaving the "nice" side of Mr. Hyde too.

 

Often there is a "leave the dirty bas**rd" drumbeat here at LS when all of the situation is unknown. I hope that this isnt the case. Surely there must be good points you have neglected to mention. It seems obvious from your posts that he's a good provider. You mention "emotional abuse", in my experiance that often goes both directions in long term marriages. Have you thought long and hard about the consequences of striking out on your own at 55+ years old? I'm a few years older than you and I can tell you for a fact it gets harder every year to keep it all together.

 

You also mentioned you are his "second marriage" for the last 15 years. Your son is 20? The courts may take this into account as well. There must be a back story there. Your son isn't his son but he helped support and raise him these last 15 years? Am I missing something? This doesen't sound like the act of a worthless philandering spouse. Being a second wife also complicates long term support questions. It sounds from your post like there are substantial assets involved, "no fault" is probably not in the cards. You may find that a court doesen't believe you are due support for more than a couple of years. Especially if there were no children together which sounds like it's the case. You may find yourself in court, in front of a judge being accused of unflattering things. As angry as his flirtaious behavior makes you, it's not much of a reason for divorce. Don't lose track of the reality that you were not there contributing during his schooling, training, and probably while his practice was being started. You have enjoyed your lifestyle provided by him while married. Ditto your son. The court may take that into heavy consideration.

 

Think about what you are doing. You may want to wait before taking the plunge. It's been good enough for a long time, it cannot be to difficult to take the time to be absoultely sure the decision you are making is the right one.

[2sure]

Reading your post gave me a visual of my worst fear.

 

Since finding out about my husbands infidelity and need for attention...I feel we are well into recovery. Most of the time. Lately I wonder if it isnt recovery but myself getting more comfortable with the betrayal.

 

My worst fear is that I will be in your shoes 10 years from now.

 

Your husband, your circumstance, your feelings are so close to my own...that I have to wonder if somehow I was meant to read this post.

[Athena]

Wow. Your husband sounds a hell of a lot like my husband, who is narcissistic. I have been married 22 years to him and he doesn't (can't) change his personality disorder, only his tactics -- they get better and more effective to suit his needs. Scary to read your post, I am much younger than you, and I certainly don't wish to still be in your position when I am your age.... your post motivates me even more to end my own marriage.

 

What are you hoping for? What is the best case scenario for you?

 

What did you contribute to support the way he is now?

 

What did you do wrong to allow yourself to be in this position?

 

What do you wish to be with him?

[Focus_On_The_Process]

Hi I was interested to read your first post, and thought I might try to help with a male perspective. Curious to hear, though, how your appointment went?

 

Best wishes.