flc Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 Are your kids adults now? Of the twenty years she lived with you, if she chose to work, where would she be on the corporate scale? Secretarial jobs don't exactly pay great wages. They're livable but not exactly the same level you would be at, if you focused on driving your career for 20 years. My son is 27 has a job but lives with me, my daughter is 15. Once my daughter turned about 8 I suggested she might enjoy working and getting out of the house she did not think it was worthwhile. The wages are meaningless, she has to really only support herself I did not ask for child support it is required and the alimony covers it. I would never ask for a raise in support as her wages increase. All I am saying is that after a reasonable amount of time you should become self sufficient and not require alimony maybe that is 5yrs, 10yrs I just think permanent makes divorce that much easier.
Trialbyfire Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 My son is 27 has a job but lives with me, my daughter is 15. Once my daughter turned about 8 I suggested she might enjoy working and getting out of the house she did not think it was worthwhile. The wages are meaningless, she has to really only support herself I did not ask for child support it is required and the alimony covers it. I would never ask for a raise in support as her wages increase. All I am saying is that after a reasonable amount of time you should become self sufficient and not require alimony maybe that is 5yrs, 10yrs I just think permanent makes divorce that much easier. flc, this is why traditional marriage will never be for me. The thought that someone else has that much control over me financially just freezes my blood cold. I look at what you're saying and hear "I don't love you anymore so you're now on your own to scrape together a living, while still being the sole caregiver for our child. Cya!".
flc Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 I look at what you're saying and hear "I don't love you anymore so you're now on your own to scrape together a living, while still being the sole caregiver for our child. Cya!". I guess I don't understand how you could read this. She said she doesn't love me anymore and left, she lives in a different State now. Both the children live with me and I support them 100%, she only provides nominal support through child support that comes through my alimony. So its more like I said " I still love you but if you want to leave after 20 years I want you to be happy I will continue to support the children 100% financially and emotionally, we will continue to have a good relationship as you are the mother of the children and I will pay you support forever" The only argument I have is the forever part. My x and I are friends and I don't dwell on this it is the law and I will abide by it but I don't think it is fair for any spouse of any gender. The bottom line is the "until death do us part" section of the wedding vows lasts longer than the marriage.
Trialbyfire Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 I guess I don't understand how you could read this. She said she doesn't love me anymore and left, she lives in a different State now. Both the children live with me and I support them 100%, she only provides nominal support through child support that comes through my alimony. So its more like I said " I still love you but if you want to leave after 20 years I want you to be happy I will continue to support the children 100% financially and emotionally, we will continue to have a good relationship as you are the mother of the children and I will pay you support forever" The only argument I have is the forever part. My x and I are friends and I don't dwell on this it is the law and I will abide by it but I don't think it is fair for any spouse of any gender. The bottom line is the "until death do us part" section of the wedding vows lasts longer than the marriage. Hold it, hold it. So you're raising the children AND paying her alimony? I don't understand how she could be paying you child support, while you pay her alimony or are you suggesting that the net difference between child support and alimony equals you paying her? Also, how did the division of assets go, upon separation and subsequent divorce?
flc Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 Hold it, hold it. So you're raising the children AND paying her alimony? I don't understand how she could be paying you child support, while you pay her alimony or are you suggesting that the net difference between child support and alimony equals you paying her? Also, how did the division of assets go, upon separation and subsequent divorce? This is correct, I retain custodial custody of my daughter (my son is too old) and FL law requires child support regardless of whether I wanted it or not. The basis is your income and hers at the time was only the alimony and I agreed to raise it to cover the child support. I was told by multiple lawyers that she could have gotten up to 40% alimony so there was no sense in fighting and taking a bigger hit. All marriage assets including 401k are considered joint property in FL so they are split 50/50 Just another little note, I find when discussing this topic men universally have a problem with alimony in general and are almost incredulous to hear there is still such a thing as permanent alimony. Most women on the other hand feel completely the opposite, I just wonder if there was role reversal and the majority of women were the major earners and the men stayed home the reactions to alimony would be the opposite.
berrieh Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 Just another little note, I find when discussing this topic men universally have a problem with alimony in general and are almost incredulous to hear there is still such a thing as permanent alimony. Most women on the other hand feel completely the opposite, I just wonder if there was role reversal and the majority of women were the major earners and the men stayed home the reactions to alimony would be the opposite. Hmmm...not sure if that's the reason. I have no desire to stay at home, and never will, but I find alimony perfectly reasonable in many cases. Personally, I see staying home with kids as a sacrifice...which is why I think alimony is neccesary. If someone sacrifices their career for the health of their family and marriage, based on a mutual choice both partners made, I don't see why they shouldn't be compensated for that work and sacrifice as well. I do think it should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. But the fact is that entering into marriage or divorce should not be done lightly.
Trialbyfire Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 This is correct, I retain custodial custody of my daughter (my son is too old) and FL law requires child support regardless of whether I wanted it or not. The basis is your income and hers at the time was only the alimony and I agreed to raise it to cover the child support. I was told by multiple lawyers that she could have gotten up to 40% alimony so there was no sense in fighting and taking a bigger hit. All marriage assets including 401k are considered joint property in FL so they are split 50/50In jurisdictions where there's no fault divorce, it shouldn't have gone this way. What was the premise of the divorce? She must have sued you for divorce with cause. Just another little note, I find when discussing this topic men universally have a problem with alimony in general and are almost incredulous to hear there is still such a thing as permanent alimony. Most women on the other hand feel completely the opposite, I just wonder if there was role reversal and the majority of women were the major earners and the men stayed home the reactions to alimony would be the opposite. Truth be told, I'm not interested in a SAHH or being a SAHM. There's no way I would ever financially depend on or want an adult to be financially dependent on me. No thanks to traditional marriage or gender reversal for me which is probably why I lack empathy for people within those confines. You get what you pay for.
serial muse Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 Hmmm...not sure if that's the reason. I have no desire to stay at home, and never will, but I find alimony perfectly reasonable in many cases. Personally, I see staying home with kids as a sacrifice...which is why I think alimony is neccesary. If someone sacrifices their career for the health of their family and marriage, based on a mutual choice both partners made, I don't see why they shouldn't be compensated for that work and sacrifice as well. I do think it should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. But the fact is that entering into marriage or divorce should not be done lightly. Exactly. I'm not saying it should be one size fits all either, but think about it. If someone stays home (and when that happens it's usually a woman, but as the OP noted, not always), then what they are giving up career-wise is not just a chunk of time and money that spanned the marriage, but future earnings as well. Even if that person re-enters the workforce at 50 and can find a well-paying job - a big IF - that person will not make what they would have made had they not taken a 10, 15, 20-year break. The person is now on a much lower financial track, and will most likely never have an opportunity to be at the same financial status that s/he could have achieved. I get what people are saying about not wanting to pay perpetual alimony - but I do think the only answer is to think about what you're getting into before getting married. If you get married agreeing that one partner will stay home - then you must deal with all that that entails. That is a financial agreement as much as anything. Just be aware of it. If you're not comfortable with the idea that you might end up paying alimony someday, then maybe it's time to think carefully and circumspectly about how you really feel about one partner staying home! It's a little late to decide after the fact that you didn't mean you wanted to pay for it. I'm fine with pre-nups. But I'd venture to say that the women (for the sake of argument) that most often willingly sign them have their own careers. So that wouldn't necessarily solve the alimony issues being discussed here. On a different note, isn't it usually true that alimony stops if the partner remarries?
flc Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 This was a no fault divorce no hearing just an order signed by the judge. I had a lawyer review the agreement and he considered it fair. I checked with another lawyer and she said I was lucky the alimony could have been higher.
berrieh Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 On a different note, isn't it usually true that alimony stops if the partner remarries? Yep. You cannot legally collect multiple alimony payments generally, though you can collect child support still as long as the original parent retains parental rights and the child is under 18/21, depending on the agreement. You can, however, have to PAY multiple alimony payments if you have multiple un-re-married ex-spouses. Yikes! Again, reasons to think before you marry and/or divorce.
Trialbyfire Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/05/grossman.adultery.alimony/ Here's an old article that talks about an adulterer getting paid alimony, if you can believe it. That's horrendous. It's like forcing her to relive his infidelity for whatever the term of the alimony payments last. It might be a lifetime. After the 27-year marriage of Brenda and James Mani ended, a court ordered Brenda to pay James $610 per week in spousal support. But Brenda strenuously objected. It wasn't that she couldn't afford the payments: Brenda had been given valuable property by her father - leaving her with 2.4 million in investment holdings - while James had little to his name. But Brenda did not want to pay a man who, she alleged, had both committed adultery and treated her with cruelty during their marriage.
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