Bells Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 I heard of some situations...believe it or not a female friend of mine who was in a lucractive business, has to now live on a budget...due to a divorce, and her HUSBAND collecting alimony (Wow...men collecting alimony?) Heck, I thought that women did the Alimony collection. But apparently Alimony is justified if the person can't support themselves or they were a stay at home mom all their lives, and now are on their own with no skills and can't support themselves.
Geishawhelk Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 A good example of how it "cuts both ways". Same with Child Support.
dilly Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Yep, my ex is sitting pretty with all the alimony I'm paying her... Funny story. An acquaintance of mine has been divorced for a while and was paying child support and alimony. He got a different job and his ex made a big deal about wanting more alimony. As it turns out, he did some digging and found out that she moonlights as an escort in Vegas every weekend and was making a lot of extra money unreported. She ended up having to pay him alimony...
Trialbyfire Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 That's why it's best if you make your fortune before you get married, get a prenup while maintaining separate assets, and make sure you both continue working, after you get married.
movingonandon Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 No matter how outrageously expensive, always get the best lawyer there is. I hope that i will never have to, but if i have to, I'll be paying $1000 an hour without a blink.
BrooklynBridge Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Wow. I love the reverse sexism in this thread. A guy gets alimony and its a total shocker. Further proof that women do indeed do better in divorces.
Woggle Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 I don't agree with alimony but if we must keep it then women should have to pay it as well. Maybe when they realize what it feels like to have your wallet drained just because a marriage did not work out they will support doing away with it alltogether.
Author Bells Posted December 10, 2008 Author Posted December 10, 2008 I don't agree with alimony but if we must keep it then women should have to pay it as well. Maybe when they realize what it feels like to have your wallet drained just because a marriage did not work out they will support doing away with it alltogether. Yeah, I thought Alimony has gone away with the DoDo bird. I thin it was originally used during the times where women just stayed at home and raised children. Now that women can support themselves, there's no need for it...or so I thought.
berrieh Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Yeah, I thought Alimony has gone away with the DoDo bird. I thin it was originally used during the times where women just stayed at home and raised children. Now that women can support themselves, there's no need for it...or so I thought. In a partnership, one person might stay home and raise the children, and that person is entitled to alimony to maintain their lifestyle, in my opinion. Otherwise, you could take off work, raise a man's kids, and he could leave you broke when he wants to be with some 20-something and you have no skills after being out of the job market for 18 years, raising his children...or vice versa for a husband who stays at home. A stay at home Mom or Dad often allows the other partner to further their career by taking on household chores and parenting duties that the other cannot and alleviating stress... Since marriage is a partnership, one person's success is the other person's success. I'm fine with alimony and child support, as long as it's merited. Frankly, marriage should be a partnership that it's not very easy to dissolve and with lasting consequences.
Trialbyfire Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Gotta' love people who want a traditional marriage, then balk at paying for it if something happens!
Geishawhelk Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Wow. I love the reverse sexism in this thread. A guy gets alimony and its a total shocker. Further proof that women do indeed do better in divorces. No... Proof that some women still expect to do better in divorces. They're in for a shock..... and rightly so. I think this situation is entirely fair and justified. Judge Judy thinks so too!
flc Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 About 30% of my gross income goes to my ex-wife for alimony and it is permanent spousal support so it lasts until she remarries or dies. Alimony is alive and well when you solely support your spouse (male or female) for generally more than 7 years i.e. they did not work. Between about 7-15 years you would generally get term alimony which would last a specific period say 5-10 years. After 15 years you get permanent support. Now I have no problem with paying alimony for a specific period to help an ex spouse get back on their feet after a divorce. The problem I have is that child support lasts until the child becomes an adult and can support themselves but spousal support is for an adult and can be permanent. It seems like a contradiction. Also recognize my ex had skills and we agreed that she did not have to work since my income could support us and I was happy with her taking care of the kids fulltime. Now I get to pay for that joint decision. As I have said on another thread the only benefit is that alimony is 100% tax deductible so when I try to look on the positive side I figure she was spending more than that a month when we were married and it was not deductible.
Author Bells Posted December 11, 2008 Author Posted December 11, 2008 About 30% of my gross income goes to my ex-wife for alimony and it is permanent spousal support so it lasts until she remarries or dies. Alimony is alive and well when you solely support your spouse (male or female) for generally more than 7 years i.e. they did not work. Between about 7-15 years you would generally get term alimony which would last a specific period say 5-10 years. After 15 years you get permanent support. Now I have no problem with paying alimony for a specific period to help an ex spouse get back on their feet after a divorce. The problem I have is that child support lasts until the child becomes an adult and can support themselves but spousal support is for an adult and can be permanent. It seems like a contradiction. Also recognize my ex had skills and we agreed that she did not have to work since my income could support us and I was happy with her taking care of the kids fulltime. Now I get to pay for that joint decision. As I have said on another thread the only benefit is that alimony is 100% tax deductible so when I try to look on the positive side I figure she was spending more than that a month when we were married and it was not deductible. Until she REmarries or DIES? Cripes man...I would have a problem with that. lol I figured Alimony was temporary. You know, until she gets back on her feet. FLC...I'm \suprised you'r not in the poorhouse
Author Bells Posted December 11, 2008 Author Posted December 11, 2008 I also know of this guy who lost his shirt in the divorce...apparently she preplanned it all a year before announcing it. She appraised some his "Prized" items (collectibles). She's now out galavanting with the new boyfriend....she hardly bothers seeing the children (he's taking care of them all the time) she's got the house...and he's living in a crappy apt.
xpaperxcutx Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 If any of you ever watches Two and a Half Men, one of the brothers ended paying full child support and spousal support, and he was a chiropractor, living with his brother. Most people, if they can hire a good lawyer, usually ends up with a better post divorce agreement, and that would include a big fat alimony check. I'm never getting married.
flc Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 Until she REmarries or DIES? Cripes man...I would have a problem with that. lol I figured Alimony was temporary. You know, until she gets back on her feet. FLC...I'm \suprised you'r not in the poorhouse The only way to avoid this is to make sure spouse continues to be actively employed or have a prenupt. What is even more interesting is that I have custody of the kids and she has to pay child support. Of course my alimony is what is paying for the child support and it is only about $300/mo for the one child since she has no real income. Again I want to be clear I have no problem with paying some portion of my income for some period of time. I just don't see why I have to support someone for life when she decided she did not want to work and she decided she wanted a divorce. I would feel the same way if I was a she and she was a he, this has nothing to do with gender just general fairness.
Woggle Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 In this day and age where both men and women can earn a living alimony should be done away with. A person should not have to have their wallet drained just because a marriage does not work out especially if there was no cheating or abuse involved. If a person is not happy in a marriage then by all means leave but it shouldn't entitle you to be supported by your ex. This is why everybody needs a prenup.
berrieh Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 About 30% of my gross income goes to my ex-wife for alimony and it is permanent spousal support so it lasts until she remarries or dies. Alimony is alive and well when you solely support your spouse (male or female) for generally more than 7 years i.e. they did not work. Between about 7-15 years you would generally get term alimony which would last a specific period say 5-10 years. After 15 years you get permanent support. Now I have no problem with paying alimony for a specific period to help an ex spouse get back on their feet after a divorce. The problem I have is that child support lasts until the child becomes an adult and can support themselves but spousal support is for an adult and can be permanent. It seems like a contradiction. Also recognize my ex had skills and we agreed that she did not have to work since my income could support us and I was happy with her taking care of the kids fulltime. Now I get to pay for that joint decision. Even if she had skills, she could not really enter the workforce and support herself in the same way after 7 years, could she? As you said, it was a joint descision that you made in your marriage... Personally, I don't understand why the ramifications of marriage shouldn't be permanent. People should see marriage as something you can get into and out of easily. Then again, I think you said later that she decided she wanted a divorce; if she was the petitioner and didn't have well-documented cause, I disagree with permanent alimony in these cases.
Trialbyfire Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 flc, who hires 50+ year old women, with little to no job experience?
serial muse Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 Gotta' love people who want a traditional marriage, then balk at paying for it if something happens! Exactly what I was thinking. Honestly, people. If you're going to pooh-pooh the idea that both partners want to work because it's not good for the relationship or the kids or what-have-you, then something's gotta give here. To be honest, I basically agree with Woggle on the no-double-standards issue. BUT the corollary to that is that there should be no double standards whatsoever - for example, about wanting to work, about who's responsible for what, etc. It should be an equal, fair partnership. Therefore, if both partners agree that one will stay home to take care of children/home/etc. and thus will not be earning an independent paycheck, then OF COURSE there should still be such a thing as alimony to protect him/her in case the marriage ends! Of course there will be people who take advantage of the system, but nothing's perfect. And I'd rather make sure that the stay-at-home folks who agreed to stay home in good faith that they'd be taken care of financially don't get screwed by giving up their careers and then having nothing to fall back on if the career partner takes off for greener pastures. Regardless of which gender is which.
Author Bells Posted December 11, 2008 Author Posted December 11, 2008 The only way to avoid this is to make sure spouse continues to be actively employed or have a prenupt. What is even more interesting is that I have custody of the kids and she has to pay child support. Of course my alimony is what is paying for the child support and it is only about $300/mo for the one child since she has no real income. Again I want to be clear I have no problem with paying some portion of my income for some period of time. I just don't see why I have to support someone for life when she decided she did not want to work and she decided she wanted a divorce. I would feel the same way if I was a she and she was a he, this has nothing to do with gender just general fairness. FLC There was this one woman that worked a gym...40 years old...killer body, great shape...was a personal trainer part time...was a housewife for 20 years!! Also...she had EIGHT kids! LOL She's set for l ife I guess. lol
flc Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 flc, who hires 50+ year old women, with little to no job experience? I never said she had no skills. She was an executive secretary when I met her she was still proficient in Word, Excel etc when we divorced. She has skills she has an education and she could go back to school as well. Since when is 50 that old, she has a part time job now and is looking for fulltime. Also there was no cause in the divorce. But even with a job she is entitled to live at the same lifestyle as I, so they would balance the alimony and I would have to get a lawyer and petition the court for a reduction. The if she decides to live with someone she can continue the alimony unless I can prove she is getting material support from the person. More money, more time in court. If I lost my job who supports me? I am an adult I am on my own just as our kids are regardless of age once over 18. Let me just also add that this is not all ice cream and cake for her, she is not living as well as we were together but she did get 50% of all of our assets so she has money to start over and in the end probably neither of us will be able to afford to retire what with the divorce and the stock market.
Trialbyfire Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 I never said she had no skills. She was an executive secretary when I met her she was still proficient in Word, Excel etc when we divorced. She has skills she has an education and she could go back to school as well. Since when is 50 that old, she has a part time job now and is looking for fulltime. Also there was no cause in the divorce. But even with a job she is entitled to live at the same lifestyle as I, so they would balance the alimony and I would have to get a lawyer and petition the court for a reduction. The if she decides to live with someone she can continue the alimony unless I can prove she is getting material support from the person. More money, more time in court. If I lost my job who supports me? I am an adult I am on my own just as our kids are regardless of age once over 18. Are your kids adults now? Of the twenty years she lived with you, if she chose to work, where would she be on the corporate scale? Secretarial jobs don't exactly pay great wages. They're livable but not exactly the same level you would be at, if you focused on driving your career for 20 years.
JohnnyBlaze Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 As Kevin Nealon once said on Weekend Update (SNL, before it became really bad), "25% of men kiss their wife goodbye when they leave the house. However, 99% kiss their house goodbye when they leave the wife." It's sad that it has become sound advice to consult a lawyer before asking your sweetheart to marry you. Unfortunately, that has become the case. Although men do occasionally 'win', the vast majority still wind up losing everything.
D-Jam Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 Here's how I look at things: 1) People shouldn't rush marriage. The ones I've seen who think 6-9 months of dating is an ideal amount of time before engagement are crazy in my book. Take a few years, enjoy being a couple, truly get to know a person completely before getting engaged. I for one won't marry someone unless I've been dating her for 2+ years. 2) People should learn that with a deep RL and especially marriage that most of their independent life is OVER. I don't mean that in a bad way, but I've seen too many divorces and breakups happen because one or both parties were not behaving and treating things like a partnership, but as 2 individuals. Everything from expenses to planned vacations to social time and living arrangements is a PARTNERSHIP. Your spouse isn't someone you can just toss on the shelf and pull down another time. 3) Disputes and arguments should be treated as problems...and both sides need to be compromising to the other. Again, I've seen RLs fail because things became a battle of wills or an "I'm right, your wrong" debate. Both sides are more battling for power than they are trying to fix the problem. Plus many times the argument-makers are thinking more of the RL being their personal life with the addition of a mate...not a melding of two lives into one. 4) If you believe your SO will cheat on you, then don't marry him/her. If you believe anyone you get with will cheat on you...then seek help. 5) If you decide to get married and especially have children, then bear in mind now that your life has changed, and you take the risks with it. So if things fail, then remember that things like alimony and child support will come with it. If you're worried to death about being "screwed" in a divorce, then this is why you follow point #1 very hardcore...and be careful who you choose in life. 6) Make sure you build your life so you can take care of yourself. This is in response to the housewives who end up divorced and have no job skills. I know many want to be the traditional mother and housewife, but after high school those in that logic should still seek some job skills training, so they can get out there and work if they end up alone, or even to take care of themseles before meeting Mr. or Ms. Right. Even now it's hard to do a one income family, so being able to work at something beyond retail is a plus to yourself. 7) If you really want marriage and a family in your life, then don't do things to sabotage your chances. Don't hit 20 and think you have plenty of time and you're too young, so you'll live it up for now with some meaningless affairs, then look for something serious when the mid to late 20s hits. Don't sit there thinking there will be some amazing childless never-married woman out there when you're in your mid to late 30s. People who wait too long to look for a spouse end up writing how they can't find any decent people or how all the decent ones are married off. Nothing is more unattractive than a woman who has been known to sleep around with bad boys and douchebags, and worse was knocked up by one of them. Nothing is more unattractive than a man who has been known to sleep around with every skank and slut they found and avoided commitment til their 30s or 40s. There is a price you pay for "sowing your wild oats". 8) Pre-nups are not all one-track. They can be tailored by the lawyers to fit certain criteria...and neither side should look at them as a sign of mistrust or recipe for failure. Think of it more as insurance on your marriage. You could for instance set it up that no alimony will be paid if it's a no-fault divorce. So the guy marries, and 10 years later she's lost the spark and wants out...the pre-nup then would protect the guy from alimony. It can be reversed also if the woman is making the bigger income. However, it can be set up that if she came home and found him in bed with another woman, then he's gotta pay alimony. Couples should think about pre-nups. I personally think we would see less divorces if pre-nups were involved. Simply because if one can't leave a marriage on no-fault and get more out of it...then it might make some try to make the marriage work. 9) Divorce should be treated as a mutual work to make a quick, clean separation...not as an act of hate on your spouse. Worse if there are children involved. If you have been betrayed, hurt, etc...take a moment to cool off, then do the divorce. Hate will only make it worse and thus make things a mess of drama. Same deal if you are the one who did wrong. If you messed up and got busted, then be ready to pay for that crime. No one to blame but yourself.
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