Coutwice Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Hi all, I'll try to keep my story as brief as possible. I met this girl 8 months ago and we had a great connection, unfortunately I was still involved with my girlfriend at the time. Nevertheless I broke up with my girlfriend in order to try my hand at this new relationship. Needless to say I was not that good a boyfriend to this new girl. I treated her badly, cheated on her, basically I exhibited all the things women complain about men. Well after 8 months things got worse, I became jealous of this guy she was associating with and broke it off with her. After the break-up, it didn't take long before I had second thoughts about us, I felt incredibly guilty and thought I had made a grave mistake by letting her go. So I convinced her to talk, apologized and told her I wanted to try out our relationship again, this time with the knowledge that I needed some character adjustment. Since then we have talked here and there, I've been walking on eggshells trying to avoid acting the way I did before. She's still talking to this guy, claims he's a good friend and is helping her through these trying times. I've noticed myself becoming very suspicious of her, I'm not able to pinpoint what she wants from me at the moment. I have access to her phone records and couldn't help but check on who she's talking to. A couple of nights ago, we met and went out for some coffee, it went well, we talked about the past, she said she missed me greatly and so forth. Later on, I tried to call her late at night to say goodnight, she didnt answer but sent me a text message saying she was on the phone with her girlfriend. My intuition kicked in and I felt uneasy about that, she never missed answering my calls. The next day, sure enough her phone records indicated she was talking to this guys, for 68 minutes! Now I don't want to be caught up in these games, I wanted to try out this relationship again but I dont want to be a fool. Why would she find it neccessary to lie about being on the phone with this so-called friend? She has admitted to sleeping-over at his house and vice versa. Is she seeing this guy and stringing me along? I saw her again today, we went out to dinner and subsequently had sex. So things seem to be going well on the surface but I can't help but feel uneasy about her intentions, is she taking advantage of the fact that I was bad to her and justifying her current actions? What should I do, I don't want to lose her but I don't want to be a fool in the process!!
Cub Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Seems to me like you both have some maturing to do, but at least you're on the right track. She, on the other hand, is much too close to this new guy for comfort, and if she hasn't offered you anything akin to a real relationship (no, sleeping with her isn't enough), then you should chalk this one up as a loss. Even if she's telling the truth about their relationship, it doesn't make up for her stringing you along, and your guilt about how the previous relationship ended shouldn't deter you from drawing the line. Your suffering here won't make up for anything.
Author Coutwice Posted December 10, 2008 Author Posted December 10, 2008 you are right, I've come to learn a lot about myself from this relationship. I'm aware of my ways and more than willing to change them for myself. Furthemore I'd like to pursue this relationship once more. Question is how much time should I invest in trying before I call it quits and move on.
Cub Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Well, there's no set time limit, and I can't recommend an amount of time to you; it ends when you run out of patience. But you should just lay it all on the line now. Tell her what you want, tell her that you love her, then just walk away if she doesn't reciprocate.
Dmoney28 Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 correct me if i'm wrong...maybe i misread your post. But you cheated on the new girl...got back with her..and you are jealous of this guy? Does she know about you cheating on her?
Mikey Action Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Well. Hmm. Maybe he is just a friend. Or maybe he's a "friend" like Biz Markee got the same line. This sounds to me like she's paying you back for how you treated her. Maybe she plans to string you along for a while to see if you've changed while she decides who to date. given that you've cheated, I can't really say I would blame her for getting a little payback. Hell hath no fury, you know? I for one, believe that unless someone is loose with their intimacy they don't sleep with people just to sleep with them if they've dated before and you can probably tell by how she acted afterward what kind of encounter it was, casual or something more so trust your gut. Fact is, if you want her back you have to smile and not be jealous of her. Why are you even looking at her phone records? Its no business of yours who she talks to, maybe she lied because she wanted to avoid a fight. Maybe make it clear that you aren't jealous and you can tell when she's not being forthcoming and tell her its cool if she has a guy buddy. Lots of girls do.
dEEpChArM Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 I may have missed it, but you don't say if she agreed to begin a new relationship with you - you only said you talked with her about the possibilities and some of the terms (character adjustments), Is there a clear understanding between the two of you that you're in an exclusive relationship? I'm asking because without this there's no way for us to even guess at what she might be thinking, or why her behavior is such as it is. Assuming you two have agreed to see each other exclusively, then you need to speak with her about setting boundaries that you're both comfortable with regarding her interactions with her male friend. But there are some things you should say to her first before you bring this up IMO, because you're the one who behaved badly toward her originally, and she's entitled to feel that it should be made up to her before she begins making any concessions. As to her not telling you that she was talking to her male friend - this could be a white lie told in order to spare your feelings. Even if it's completely platonic, she may be sensitive to the idea that you may not think it is, and in this case I would agree with her choice. Sometimes it's just easier on everyone to skip the potentially wrongly-interpreted and therefore hurtful details especially if they're harmless in truth. The other side of this is that she may be seeing this other guy as a protective measure - considering your treatment of her was admittedly bad the first time around, and could only have been hurtful to her. She more than likely still has some fears about trusting you and therefore may feel safer keeping her options open. She's seeing you again - this would indicate that she likes you a lot esp considering all that she must have gone through during your initial relationship. That's really good news for you. I don't know why Cub said "at least you're on the right track" maybe someone can tell me. On the contrary I sense that you're feeling around in the dark, hoping for something to begin to make sense and not knowing what to do to get a hold of the situation. Looking at her phone records indicates to me that you're on the completely wrong track - you're trying to gain control with a dishonest & underhanded attempt to uncover some truths about her behaviors and intentions. (I hope you'll agree that prying into someone's personal phone records is not honorable or healthy behavior in this context). Please don't get me wrong - it's not a judgement on you - it's just an observation. And incidentally it's nothing I haven't done myself before :0 :-) The right track would be something more like sitting down and talking with her and making some very clear statements about what you're looking for in a relationship with her. Your intentions seem to be good so you shouldn't have any problem with this. If you write some main points down you'll have a better chance of making yourself clear during your talk. Top of the list would ideally be an apology for the way you treated her initially, then tell her how much you care about her and want to make a healthy relationship. Let her know your thoughts about your character adjustments - be specific about what you're planning on doing/not doing to correct some of your past behaviors & to prevent them from surfacing again. Let her know that in order to build a good relationship with her you need to discuss her friendship with this other guy and find out from her what he means to her, and if she would be willing to let him go if that's what you feel has to happen for the two of you to have a fair chance. Try to say all this in a way that in not accusing or threatening her with leaving if she fails to give you the answer you want - this way you're more likely to hear her express her truths, and not just what she thinks you want to hear. Listen to her and try not to judge just listen and let her tell you how she sees things and what she wants. Make sure she knows that you respect her feelings. It may be that she wants nothing more than a secure and loving relationship with you and really isn't interested in this other guy, but keeps him around in case you disappoint her again. I don't know - it's just one scenario. Let's hope! I truly believe if you have an honest talk with her about what kind of relationship you both want with each other it will give you a much better grip on what direction to take both individually and as a couple. How old are you both if I may ask? deirdre
Mikey Action Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 DeepCharm, I must disagree. Sitting her down and making himself clear will only do two things: 1) feed her ego and give her complete control over the situation 2) make it clear that he is not behaving as a man would or should Time and time again, ladies tell men to talk, be open with their intentions and feelings and 99% of the time, it causes the ladies to lose respect for you. I'm not saying you are like that, but most of my observation bear that out. This isn't some "be a challenge trying to sell you an e-book" comment. The fact is love really is a combination of attraction and respect. You've got the attraction part down, that's the easy part. If you've dated her, well then duh, she thinks you're good looking. Hey, even after the break up you're still attractive to her right? so it has to be more then that to make it work, right? Getting women to respect you? that's the hard part. All the games, tests, et al. are simply them testing you to see how you react to them and if they can respect you. After you break up, if you whine, beg etc. they lose respect. the reason some of them come back after NC? It's not "want what you can't have" any woman with any sense knows that they can have any man who they dated and is sticking around. They respect the fact that you tell them to take a hike and you're going on with your life. The Respect for your actions as a man is what will bring her back, if at all. Cowboy up. Accept the fact you may or may not be with her and he may or may not be trying to date her. Accept the fact that you did her wrong. apologize, I agree there. Say it once and mean it. Then don't do it anymore. Guys, come on. How many of you had a female "buddy" that only ended up your buddy because you couldn't figure out how to land her? Yep. That's right. He is trying to get with her for sure. She may not want to get with him, but for sure he's trying to get with her. Once you accept that things are what they are, it gets much easier to deal with. Come on. what's sexier to a woman then a man who is aloof, confident and laid back? Nothing. Oh, and stop checking her phone records dude. We've all been down, but don't do it. Why? because it does you no good. You tell her you know she lied and you looked at her phone records? How do you think she'll react? mmmhmm, that means all you know is that you know and you have to keep it to yourself because its a lose/lose for you. I'd like to think avoiding lose/lose scenarios is good no matter what the context. my two pennies.
RecordProducer Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 This isn't some "be a challenge trying to sell you an e-book" comment. It sure sounds like you scraped it off those "Finally Get Laid" type of e-books. Come on. what's sexier to a woman then a man who is aloof, confident and laid back? Nothing. Nothin'.
Author Coutwice Posted December 10, 2008 Author Posted December 10, 2008 I agree with the phone records, I don't want to do it its just hard not to especially when I know I can access them. I did talk to her about my intentions and her reply was that she wanted me but needed time to think about her life and what she wants out of it, from this I think I should initiate NC or I'll end up begging, feeling frustrated and jealous of the people she's associating with, any advice?
Author Coutwice Posted December 10, 2008 Author Posted December 10, 2008 I talked to her today, and laid down what I want. I told her I love her to death and would wish to try another hand at this relationship, take all the time she wants and if she wanted me then she would let me know. She replied that she knows she wants me but still needs time. So I added that I would lay off and give her all the time she wants to sort herself out to which she said quote "No you're fine, laying off will just make my head go crazy thinking that you're seeing other people" Now what is this about? is she trying to have the cake and eat it? I really feel feel I should go NC right now, I don't want to keep waiting everyday not knowing my place with her until she makes up her mind, it just wont be good for me.
Author Coutwice Posted December 10, 2008 Author Posted December 10, 2008 Oh and to answer an earlier question, yes, she knows I cheated on her. This was earlier when we had seen each other for about a month, I told her about it, apologized and it has never happened since. Now I know I haven't been good with this girl, and I did consider the fact that she might do the same thing to me. I want to try again because I feel the love for this girl, I miss her, I want her in my life, she has inspired me to change.
Cub Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 "No you're fine, laying off will just make my head go crazy thinking that you're seeing other people" This would be your hope when you layoff. Her "going crazy" is a good setup for a real discussion about the relationship when she comes after you.
Author Coutwice Posted December 10, 2008 Author Posted December 10, 2008 I guess you're right, I feel she's just keeping me at bay while weighing her options right now. I think she still harbors distrust from our relationship so I should give her time to make up her mind. A funny thing is that she gets upset at the idea that I might be seeing someone yet she won't say if she wants to be in a relationship with me or not. So I think NC is in order here.
IcemanJB Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Her "going crazy" also means she'll figure out pretty quickly what she wants. Do NC, you know it's the right thing to do.
fishtaco Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 I think she still harbors distrust from our relationship Umm... you cheated on her. What did you expect? Imagine she was the one that cheated on you. How would that make you feel? There are all kind of games you can play to get her back. But why would you want a relationship that's already broken from the start? Unless you want her back in the sack so you can bang her a few more times before the relationship crash and burns again, I would say start with a clean slate. Go find some other girl, and try not to cheat this time.
Dmoney28 Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 If you really love this girl. Then do what you have to do. But before you persue her...make sure you actually, trully LOVE her, not want her. And remember love isnt selfish and dosent look out for its own intrest. I suggest in the time you have NC....start making some attitude changes, perhaps counselling and reading. As far as the relationship be "broken", she has the choice if it can be fixed or not. She's a big girl...a individual who can chose her own path in life. If she choses you....good, try your hardest to make it work. If not, you have to respect her choice. But you do need NC for her to figure out
Gremio Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 I hate to be so blunt but I feel like I must. You are sick. You left one girlfriend for another, then cheated on her. You show the signs of a compulsive cheater. You cheat, then think your partner is cheating on you, all because your mistakes are eating at you.
dEEpChArM Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 DeepCharm, I must disagree. Sitting her down and making himself clear will only do two things: 1) feed her ego and give her complete control over the situation 2) make it clear that he is not behaving as a man would or should Given the OP's past behavior i.e cheating on her, why shoudn't he "feed her ego"? If he feeds her ego she'll feel better about HIM! He only stands to benefit from making her feel good in any way he can manage. I also suspect you may be involved in some "game" type philosophies which have their place I'm sure, but taking care never to give a girl what she needs to feel good about YOU is a mistake. Why would this give her "complete control over the situation" ? Have YOU ever honestly spoken with a women when you made a mistake? Or simply to define what the relationship is, or what you would like it to be? Or do you just go about it without any open communication? Does this put you in complete control? In a way -probably (for about 3 minutes). Does it create a loving and lasting relationship? Please, the girl will walk as soon as she's fed up with the BS. And that usually doesn't take long. What would "make it clear that he is not behaving as a man would or should"? Talking honestly about his intentions? Where do you get your information from? A real man makes his intentions known especially when he's trying to win someone BACK. Not everything is a power struggle my friend. People respect those who respect themselves. Men are not losers who need to protect their egos at all costs. They're intelligent and interesting people who come up against challenges just like women do. The answer is not to do your best to one-up the opposite sex, but to find effective ways to negotiate and build intimacy and sex-appeal - which to women is inextricably tied to trust. I hope you can understand what I'm saying - it does take an open mind. You know what? I just remembered I have to water the plants... good luck P.S. To the OP - please beware the advice you're getting on here - NC will get you nowhere with this girl. But will most certainly destroy any and all possibility of trust she could ever have for you. I really don't understand why posters are recommending that to you - unless they're really immature? I don't know how old you all are but please- think before you post. The only reason they might be saying NC is so you can "feel" like you gained the upper hand - in the end (which may be sooner than later) you will not have created anything worth cherishing. She will resent you and you will be totally confused AGAIN.
Author Coutwice Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Thank you deepcharm for your advise and I do agree that employing NC is not the right way to go here. I spent the day with this girl and we had a great talk about our relationship and how things went wrong. I was sincere and apologetic with her, explained my intentions once again and made it known that this was something I wanted to pursue for the right reasons. I'm very sure about my feelings for her, I know I want to be with her. She said that her biggest problem was she never felt special to me and the fact that she could never reach me on the phone whenever she called or txt made her go crazy, it fueled her distrust. So I dont think avoiding contact with her is going to help in this situation. I believe we are on the right track, we both want to be together, that is clear now and have planned to see each other more and work things out.
Author Coutwice Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 To reply to another post, I'm not sick, I made a mistake and cheated, I have never cheated on anyone before. I exhibited a weakness and recognize that I need to work on a lot of things in order to be a better person. And yes I left a girlfriend to be with her, it was a relationship that was doomed so I chose to end it rather than sneak around, judge me if you will.
dEEpChArM Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Thank you deepcharm for your advise and I do agree that employing NC is not the right way to go here. I spent the day with this girl and we had a great talk about our relationship and how things went wrong. I was sincere and apologetic with her, explained my intentions once again and made it known that this was something I wanted to pursue for the right reasons. I'm very sure about my feelings for her, I know I want to be with her. She said that her biggest problem was she never felt special to me and the fact that she could never reach me on the phone whenever she called or txt made her go crazy, it fueled her distrust. So I dont think avoiding contact with her is going to help in this situation. I believe we are on the right track, we both want to be together, that is clear now and have planned to see each other more and work things out. Good going Coutwice. Now you're on the right track. Once you begin to build up the trust that was lost you'll be on your way to a stable & fulfilling relationship. Since you really like this girl you don't want to be gamey - put the games aside, but be sexy! Believe me there's nothing sexier to a woman than to FEEL sexy while she's with you... make her feel sexy...tell her she's beautiful, or better yet give her GENUINE compliments - tell her what you really like about her that is unique to her. She'll gravitate to you like a magnet (attraction) Don't take for granted that "every other guy" is giving her positive feedback about her appearance and/or personality/smarts etc...Because even if they are, she still needs to be praised in a sexy way by the man she's with... YOU. I understand that the NC thing works with low-self-esteem women who just want a man to want them, but it doesn't work with women who have their isht together and want to be treated well. And those are the women a confident man wants to be with, so ultimately the games are useless to a quality man. Everytime a gamer or PUA comes at me it's just soooooo obvious and sad what he's trying to do, and I find myself thinking "if he would just cut the act we might have a good time, I might even give him my number..." I'm not the most confident, together woman in the world, but when it comes to dating I act as if I am! So that keeps me from falling for the pathetic PUA nonsense... but I digress... Cheers!
Roxy24 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Hi I'm the girl... I'm new to this and not quite sure how things work but I posted a few threads of my own and I'd really appreciate some feedback from deepcharm. You gave him some excellent advice and we are now back together but it's becoming very difficult. Thank you for your advice to him and again I'd really appreciate some feedback from you as well.
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