CAMAYPARK Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 BrotherD, I think one way to 'stay sane' during all this is to just realise that it's not about you. I think we as OP can easily start to believe that if they only loved us enough, they'd leave, and that mantra of 'if he loves you he'll move mountains' feeds into that whole idea. But really, ending a marriage isn't about how 'in love' you are with someone else, its about the marriage itself. No one is going to end a marriage unless they're totally through, mentally, emotionally, practically and in every way imaginable, and that can take an awful lot of time. Added to that there's the fact that cheaters are often conflict-avoiders, PA, guilt-and-fear-ridden, and these things can be crippling. Even if they're 'through' with the marriage they often can't pull the trigger. You only have to read enough in Infidelity to see that all the time. Self-doubt, apathy, fear of the unknown... argh the list is endless, and even the most mentally-healthy (and after all, who is that?) will find it a difficult process. Getting a divorce just cannot happen on the OP's timescale. The OP is living on a different timetable that involves not wanting to be an OP, shame, guilt, embarrassment, Christmases alone (as opposed to the 'this might be my last Christmas with my kids as a family' the MP is feeling), maybe he doesn't love me? HE MUST PROVE IT! desperation... see what I'm saying, the OP and the MP are on different planets often in terms of timescale. As soon as the OP realises that they must take care of themselves first, take time-outs if necessary, end it if necessary, go NC to protect themselves from the lunacy, keep their own lives, and try not to obsess about the end result... then they can live in some kind of sanity. But making it all about 'does he love me enough' and time pressures is only going to make things difficult. The only thing you can do if things are getting rough is take time out... or end it. You have to remember... it's not all about you Well said, Frannie
Author BrotherD Posted December 11, 2008 Author Posted December 11, 2008 Frannie Thanks you so much for your words. I think you are spot on. And it made me think things through from a different angle. I am in NC and one of the things thats nice about it is I am on my "timescale" (Or timeline?) I am not trying to figure out the lunacy of anothers "timescale" that has unknown factors influencing it... Feels good. Thank for the "its not always about you.." entry.. Very eye opening....And saved me hundreds of dollars of therapist fees! BroD
White Flower Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 I don't think that it brings them together in the short run, if the BS finds out. If they decide to reconcile, then that's a long, hard road. I know that mine missed me very much and it was enough to give him the courage for what he needed to do. It depends on the MM and the reason for cheating. I would venture a guess though that if the problems go unresolved in the M, the MP will cheat again. And will get smarter about it.I believe this to be true as well. But before they find someone new, I do believe that the serial cheater will use this time to cozy up to the spouse and try to be a better marriage partner. In the short run, the marriage improves but not long term especially if issues go unresolved. More vacations and sex don't always resolve deeper issues. And how about 'Loveshackables'?
White Flower Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 If he could be open with his issues, he'd be open with his wife and would be resolving their marital problems or divorcing. That's the problem with WS's. They are NOT open with their issues and instead of facing them, they avoid them and get into affairs that drag on endlessly. Which creates even more issues and more of a complicated mess they don't want to face. I find this post interesting but I disagree with one thing only: he may be able to be open with one woman and not the other. But in total, you are right in that the CSWS needs to be open about their issues, face them, deal with them, etc., otherwise they begin affairs with others and create more issues which drag on endlessly. This type usually ends up being the serial cheater. The former, the one who can be open to one and not the other, tend to leave the M and start a more realistic life with the OP and stay married to that one forever.
SierraRose Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 I often wondered if NC pushed my xMM closer or farther apart from his W. There clearly isn't a textbook answer. Although the stories are similar, they all have different characters and not everyone handles things the same. I truly feel that when there is an A, the M was already damaged. There are 2 types of cheaters-the 1 time A, coward's way to avoid dealing with M issues and the serial cheater. In the event of a serial cheater, the OW/OM is just another "link in the chain of fools..." (ty Aretha...) When it's over with you, he/she will find another...eventually the BS will find out. In this situation, the M is doomed. The 1 time A, it can go either way. That is something only time will tell.
White Flower Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 I often wondered if NC pushed my xMM closer or farther apart from his W. There clearly isn't a textbook answer. Although the stories are similar, they all have different characters and not everyone handles things the same. I truly feel that when there is an A, the M was already damaged. There are 2 types of cheaters-the 1 time A, coward's way to avoid dealing with M issues and the serial cheater. In the event of a serial cheater, the OW/OM is just another "link in the chain of fools..." (ty Aretha...) When it's over with you, he/she will find another...eventually the BS will find out. In this situation, the M is doomed. The 1 time A, it can go either way. That is something only time will tell. The relationship within the marriage is definitely doomed; however, the marriage may survive indefinitely. Oftentimes, the serial cheater marries a woman who is very talented at burying her head in the sand. Whatever it takes to keep that life insurance policy and 401K.
jj33 Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 I would definitely agree with Whiteflower. In fact I would suggest someone that with a one time cheater there is a much higher risk that the marriage will end. If somenoe who is lacks the serial cheater mentality does stray then it seems to me that they feel the marrriage is doomed. They may change their mind and stay but cheating is more of a watershed event for this person. If someone with a serial cheaters mentality strays they are simply using their coping mechanisms. Whether the BS will be stay through all that is another question but the fact that a serial cheater cheats seems to me to be just business as usual.
raspberries Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I initiated NC with my xMM, and it was hard. But I took the mind set, that I was now out of his face, and he could go put effort into him and his W getting their feet back on the ground after ending their open marriage (as I knew from a discussion with him, that I was a trust issue for them now, even though we were just friends once the marriage became closed). We went 3 weeks of NC and then I was offline for 2 weeks over Christmas. When I checked my email at a friends place. He had emailed me...on Christmas Day! :S I have mixed emotions with the whole thing. It proved he still thought of me(which in a selfish way made me happy)...but at the same time, Christmas Day should be spent happy with your family, and not emailing an ex-OW.
OWoman Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Christmas Day should be spent happy with your family, and not emailing an ex-OW. Perhaps if they're not happy, their mind wanders to memories of when they were? I got a number of emails and texts from xMMs over the holidays, too - but I guess those are just like sending christmas cards; some people do, others don't.
jj33 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 At the risk of sounding bitter - it doesnt mean anything or doesnt always mean something. xMM contacted me on his wedding anniversary.... during an anniversary party..... almost a year after things ended - what did it mean - NOTHING just him thinking of me.... big deal.... And certainly an anniversary party should not be spent emailing an x OW... Things only mean something if they are followed up by consistent actions. I would agree with OWoman thinking of times they were happy... doesnt mean that they are packing their bags
wildsoul Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Things only mean something if they are followed up by consistent actions. I would agree with OWoman thinking of times they were happy... doesnt mean that they are packing their bags Very true. We all have sentimental moments thinking about an ex-lover, ex-spouse, or even a soon-to-be-ex-spouse. Oh, and don't forget that in the case of parties/holidays/anniversaries, someone may have been drinking. It's easy to have a sentimental (or lustful) moment and send a drunken text message when your inhibitions/judgement are lowered. I think that helps explain the contact during the inappropriate times such as anniversaries. When you receive it, you're probably sober, but that doesn't mean they are!
jj33 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Good point WS - they are drinking defenses down... all the right cues for inappropriate behavior LOL I think it helps in these situations to say is this isolated and even if it is not is it followed up by REAL action (which in my mind at this point is bag packing) I mean really - what is the point of getting all excited about a text a phone call etc etc its nice to know someone you care about is thinking of you, but if they still LIVE with their spouse and are not bagpacking then ?? It just means that they are hoping they will wear you down or that you will decide that being a bit player in his life is not so bad after all. When people want more than an A, they pack their bags and go and start working on building a new life. If they arent building that new life with you its because they dont want to at this moment in time. Those in the throes of but he loves me I know he will see the light and leave one day will say I am bitter that things didnt work out differently but I am not. I am bitter that it took me so long to get over the A, that I wasted my time being hurt and heartbroken. Bottom line actions actions actions. Words whether by text, email phone or in person are meaningless if they are not backed up by actions. And even actions are meaningless if they are not consistent. Inconsistent action leads to crazy making. Its what keeps you off balance and makes you insecure never quite knowing how the other person will act - and its very very destructive.
wildsoul Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 And even actions are meaningless if they are not consistent. Inconsistent action leads to crazy making. Its what keeps you off balance and makes you insecure never quite knowing how the other person will act - and its very very destructive. OMG yes. Another variation of that same theme is when there is just enough postive action to keep you hanging in there. Personally, his actions have never seemed fast enough because I'm on a single-person's timeline. But then where it gets really confusing is when I've wondered if he's just trying to keep me happy enough in the moment that I won't leave. The doubt makes me feel awful. It's crazy-making as you call it because it's hard to tell if I'm being unreasonable in my demands or if he's been unreasonably slow to act.
jj33 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Just enough to keep you hanging in there - that was me .... I think its really crazy making because in some cases its like a form of gaslighting. You question yourself again and again am I crazy to think there is progress/hope.something positive going on here. In my case I was hoping against hope. It was just enough to keep me in it emotoinally even tho the PA was over. I kept asking myself why is it that every month or two or three he would come back and say can we try again when there was nothing to try. He knew I didnt want the A again... and yet he keeps coming back again and agan as if he is unable to let me go. I only feel better in that those people who knew and watched from the wings and saw the changes in him are FLOORED that he didnt leave to be with me. So I wasnt crazy to think that there was more to the story I wasnt making it all up. But it doesnt change the fact that there is no future in it. Hes just doing what he does being arrogant and narcissistic. In your case WS I think its real. Fingers crossed that it is. I dont think you are being unreasoanble in your demands and really all that matters is if YOU feel that they are reasonable. You need to be on the same page. And the compromises you make need to be ones that are comfortable for you. You dont need to be sitting here 6 months down the line wondering and waiting when he is going to do whatever it is you want him to do.
Deegee Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 For me, it didn't really matter...... my departure just meant that I was tired of the merry go round, and I wanted off. Whatever he was feeling after my departure, I no longer cared. After spending three years with someone, and believing that they wanted the same things, and not seeing him make any move to make that a reality made me realize that I could no longer wait around for something that was just not gonna happen. Don't get me wrong, I of course still love him, and would move heaven and earth to be with him, but I have no more time to give to him, or this (sad) relationship. I DESERVE to be with someone that is free and someone that can take the time for me, THAT'S what I'm gonna get for me.... So, move on with your life, and look out for numero uno....you!
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