Does our departure bring them together or push them apart?

[BrotherD]

I humbly submit the following to fellow Loveshackians...

 

When we as OM/OW, exit the picture and go NC, does that help or hurt the existing marriage?

 

Do they breathe a sigh of relief? And fall back into the arms of their spouse?

Does in re-invigorate the marriage?

 

Or are they hugely irritated when they have no escape from the drudgery,

while all of existing problems remain and/or magnified...

 

Also, do you think that having no one else to fall back on makes them realize how awesome we were?

 

In my darkest moments I think they dont give a damn and they just resume their lives with nary a blip on the screen...

 

In sunnier moments, I think good riddance, now you get to spend ALL YOUR TIME with the "ball and chain" Hee Hee...

[wildsoul]

In my experience,

 

Or are they hugely irritated when they have no escape from the drudgery, while all of existing problems remain and/or magnified...

Yes.

 

Also, do you think that having no one else to fall back on makes them realize how awesome we were?

and Yes.

 

Every time my guy took a step, such as moving out or starting to tell his family and friends about me, was preceded by me breaking up with him. I think he is going to get divorced no matter what, but when I leave, he moves faster.

[Moving Up]

I doubt that it causes them to fall back into each other's arms because their problems still exist. Affairs are not the cause of marital breakdown, but merely a symptom. That the OW or OM is no longer around just causes them to breathe a sigh of relief because they can then not feel SO guilty. What you have to remember is that they started cheating for a reason. Sure, you or I may be out of the picture, but it doesn't diminish the fact that the core issues still exist. Likely, they will do it again with somebody else if they don't truly get to the root of the problem.

 

It's hardly a respectable place, but if they allow themselves to stay in it, then let them.

[lost4ever]

In all honest, as a wife and an OW....it is sad when the OP leaves, you think about them a lot and wonder if you made the wrong choice, but you also get time to focus on your spouse and after awhile, with a clear head, decide if that is what you want.......Truth be told, the OP leaving is the best option. It forces a choice, Do I stay or do I go, and if the OP could stick to their guns, instead of thinking, I'll take him/ her back before he makes up their mind just so he don't forget how I great I am (thus letting the cheater have both) they would all be better in the long run...Some may loose their partner, so partners will leave their spouse.

[WickedandWeak]

I'm a MM. Don't know if I'm typical, though.

 

When OW and I were NC, I found I did not want to engage with W at all. I blamed her for the absence of OW, even though I chose to go back and try and make the marriage work.

 

As far as absence forcing progress, yes, it can. But forced progress, at least with me, is little like dieting - short term results then you gain it all back. When I have made real progress, it has been because my OW was patient and supportive while also continuing to remind me the damage I am doing with my vacillation. How much credence you should lend to this, given that I have not yet taken the real, final step, I do not know. But I can tell you that when I left before I was ready, I went back. This time, I won't make that same mistake and OW is not pushing me for the same reason.

[OWoman]

I humbly submit the following to fellow Loveshackians...

 

Loveshackians?? I thought it was Loveshackleds?

 

But to answer your question:

 

When we as OM/OW, exit the picture and go NC, does that help or hurt the existing marriage?

 

I think it all depends on the circumstances of the split. If the OM/OW decides enough is enough, and leaves before the MP is ready to face the loss, that unmet need which drove them into the AP's arms remains, leaving them unsatisfied with their M. If, on the other hand, the MP decides to work on the M, and cuts the AP loose, their focus in on the M and without the AP in the wings, their M can get a whole bunch better. But then, if the split was brought on by a Dday, with the BS insisting on it, it could go either way - the MP waking up to what they almost lost in their M, and deciding to recommit and dedicate themselves to being a better spouse... or the MP mourning the loss of the A, the loss of the AP and the loss of that potentially bright future they could have shared. Which, again, all depends on where the MP is emotionally at the time of the Dday.

[GreenEyedLady]

I don't think that it brings them together in the short run, if the BS finds out. If they decide to reconcile, then that's a long, hard road.

 

I know that mine missed me very much and it was enough to give him the courage for what he needed to do.

 

It depends on the MM and the reason for cheating. I would venture a guess though that if the problems go unresolved in the M, the MP will cheat again. And will get smarter about it.

[KismetGirl]

I humbly submit the following to fellow Loveshackians...

 

When we as OM/OW, exit the picture and go NC, does that help or hurt the existing marriage?

 

Do they breathe a sigh of relief? And fall back into the arms of their spouse?

Does in re-invigorate the marriage?

 

Or are they hugely irritated when they have no escape from the drudgery,

while all of existing problems remain and/or magnified...

 

Also, do you think that having no one else to fall back on makes them realize how awesome we were?

 

In my darkest moments I think they dont give a damn and they just resume their lives with nary a blip on the screen...

 

In sunnier moments, I think good riddance, now you get to spend ALL YOUR TIME with the "ball and chain" Hee Hee...

 

Depends on the situation, as with anything....my MM has come and gone so many times, I feel that he thinks he has a responsibility to his M, but obviously something is missing or he wouldn't keep coming back to me over and over....so he obviously misses me on some level and cares about me, but then again, he isn't unhappy enough at home to leave there either. Lots of factors to take into mind....his three kids being a big one of those factors.

 

If he told me "i need to break up with you to work on my marriage" or "because I love my wife" or anything that's one thing. But his reasons have always seems to be out of....obligation almost. A fear of losing his full-time fatherhoood to split visitation. A fear of losing the stability of his current life. A fear of looking like a failure at marriage, of others seeing him not as the responsible father and husband he appears on the outside, but as a selfish abandoner.

 

His reasons for staying married always seem to be more out of obligation and etc, rather than WANTING to stay with his wife. Just how it's seemed over and over for the four years we've been involved. I wouldn't be surprised if he finally left one day, maybe when his kids are in their teens, but that won't be for 15 years, so maybe its a moot point. I can't wait 15 years.

 

He's broken up with me so many times that it's hard to know when he really means it anymore. Everytime he does it Im crushed and think he's forgotten about me. The first time he did it he told me his wife said they had "issues" to address in their marriage. A year later, and he's in my bed again.

 

Depends on what kind of cheater the MM or MW is. Some are the serial cheaters , and the OP is not as important specifically as really just having another option out there to get their rocks off. Some, like my MM, enjoy the stability of the same woman, but is incapable of really addressing what he's lacking in his marriage, so he finds that missing piece with me, I guess.

 

Different for everyone....all I know is that right now I am in pain, and I think about him daily. I wonder if he thinks about me as much as I think about him....guess its possible. Guess we'll see if he comes around again this time, or if he's meant it when he ended it "again" two weeks ago. Time will tell.

[CAMAYPARK]

Allow me to throw another question into the equation. Does the OM/OW discuss with you in detail the state of their M? Their W/H's behaviour, whatever that's happening at home?

 

With my MM, it depends, there will be times when he will openly discuss these issues and there will be days when he won't. Most of the time, he's unhappy about discussing it.

 

Do you think discussing the state of their M and their W/H is futile since there's an obvious failure of the state of their relationship? Or do you think the refusal to discuss is due to the fact that they feel that its reflects on them, their failure at their M and failure at love? Or is like what MM said to me as his reason for discussing his W-there's no answer to be had, so why bother to discuss it.

 

For my part, I want to discuss the situation, no matter how futile and non-result achieving. To me, its not about achieving a result, its about being open and honest with someone and trying to have a reasonably proper relationship with a MM. Its about open communication, its how me knowing how he lives his life when I am not around. Its about sharing all aspects of his life with me, if he wants a R beyond the A.

 

What do you think?

[OWoman]

Its about sharing all aspects of his life with me, if he wants a R beyond the A.

 

Does he?

 

do you know?

[IfWishesWereHorses]

and trying to have a reasonably proper relationship with a MM.

 

CP, now that's an oxymoron if I've every heard one!

 

Brother,

 

Which do you want to believe?

[CAMAYPARK]

IfWishesWereHorses, I am merely trying to gauge opinions. As for me, do I believe that MM will be pass muster? I doubt it.

 

OW, do I want a R beyond the A, yes, but only if he can be totally open will his issues. Otherwise, no, one thing, I have learnt this past year and from all of you, is to have my own list of non-negiotables.

 

Does he? Yes, I think he does but he's going about it the wrong way.

[2sure]

If the problems within the marriage or the issues with WS are not addressed and corrected...the WS will soon find a new affair partner.

[Die Hard]

With my MM, it depends, there will be times when he will openly discuss these issues and there will be days when he won't. Most of the time, he's unhappy about discussing it.

You have to remember that you're at the mercy of their marriage dynamic. One day they might have been in a fight, so he's happy to discuss the marriage and its issues with you. Other days he and the wife are getting along and he feels guilty for multiple reasons, and would rather just not discuss the marriage with you.

 

This is all par for the course.

 

I could always tell when the MW I was seeing was not getting along with her husband because I would suddenly become here confidant and she couldn't get enough of me. Then she'd go cold and I'd know they'd made up or were simply getting along better that day. Repetitive cycle would go on and on and on.

 

Not saying this is the case in your situation but it cannot be ruled out. Further, one way or another, their daily marriage dynamic affects you, whether you're aware or not. Just as you have an effect on the wife that she is unaware of.

[norajane]

OW, do I want a R beyond the A, yes, but only if he can be totally open will his issues.

 

If he could be open with his issues, he'd be open with his wife and would be resolving their marital problems or divorcing.

 

That's the problem with WS's. They are NOT open with their issues and instead of facing them, they avoid them and get into affairs that drag on endlessly. Which creates even more issues and more of a complicated mess they don't want to face.

[CAMAYPARK]

MM has already moved out and has his own place. DH, its exactly like you said, the dynamics of his M does affect me and I get the feeling that he just doesn't realise the impact it has on me. He seems to think that because the issues discuss have no ultimate results, he shuts up shop.

 

NJ, he did try to resolve the issues with his marriage. He has been with his W for over 20years, I know that he has tried. Even with their M, MM has to tell his W twice, that their marriage is over. The 1st time, after a few weeks later, she thinks that he was talking bull, it was only after the 2nd time, that some trickling effect started to happen. Even then, she refuses to acknowledge it, she went to town, calling his family up slagging him off, until his brother told her that MM stayed until the kids have all grown up and now that they are, he's leaving. NJ, I have posted these in my previous threads. I am not saying that my situation is unique, its not by any stretch of imagination, but she is verbally abuse, she still is. Kids are afraid of her and due to her temper they aren't keen to be at home when she's in. She's been disassociated herself from his family, she has told MM's brother to f*** off, etc and recently just before MM move out, his mom (86) came to stay for a couple of weeks. She threw his mom out before the fortnight is up, he came home and found the poor old lady all packed up and rather disorientated.

[herenow]

If he could be open with his issues, he'd be open with his wife and would be resolving their marital problems or divorcing.

 

That's the problem with WS's. They are NOT open with their issues and instead of facing them, they avoid them and get into affairs that drag on endlessly. Which creates even more issues and more of a complicated mess they don't want to face.

 

This makes so much sense. I remember asking my H during MC why he was so reckless the night he got caught. It seems that the affair had gotten complicated because the OW started to have real feelings for him and he needed a way out. Being a conflict avoider, he agreed to something that caused a D-day.

 

The affair was his personal escape from reality. It wasn't about the marriage me or the OW. He had his own demons that he was avoiding and it wasn't until his secrets were out in the open that he was willing to face them.

 

To answer the OP, I think the MM finds other ways to escape reality when an affair ends. There are many vices that can fill an addiction and give a MM the fix he is looking for. If the MM realizes that the OW is the easiest way to escape, he may go back. But if the OW is no longer willing to participate, he will move on. The only way to stop the behavior is for the MM to really face his own issues and do what he needs to do to fix himself. Just my opinion based on my own experience.

[norajane]

NJ, he did try to resolve the issues with his marriage. He has been with his W for over 20years, I know that he has tried. Even with their M, MM has to tell his W twice, that their marriage is over. The 1st time, after a few weeks later, she thinks that he was talking bull, it was only after the 2nd time, that some trickling effect started to happen. Even then, she refuses to acknowledge it, she went to town, calling his family up slagging him off, until his brother told her that MM stayed until the kids have all grown up and now that they are, he's leaving. NJ, I have posted these in my previous threads. I am not saying that my situation is unique, its not by any stretch of imagination, but she is verbally abuse, she still is. Kids are afraid of her and due to her temper they aren't keen to be at home when she's in. She's been disassociated herself from his family, she has told MM's brother to f*** off, etc and recently just before MM move out, his mom (86) came to stay for a couple of weeks. She threw his mom out before the fortnight is up, he came home and found the poor old lady all packed up and rather disorientated.

 

Well, she may be a bat out of hell, but that can't be a NEW development in her character and yet he stayed with her for 20 years. That's a long time, so I can't help but believe that he avoided confronting her on these issues in any significant way or he'd have divorced her long ago. Conflict resolution is not the strong suit of cheaters.

[CAMAYPARK]

Well, she may be a bat out of hell, but that can't be a NEW development in her character and yet he stayed with her for 20 years. That's a long time, so I can't help but believe that he avoided confronting her on these issues in any significant way or he'd have divorced her long ago. Conflict resolution is not the strong suit of cheaters.

 

NJ, its a tad complicated, but he's kinda a traditional oriental that believes in that "staying for the kids" mantra. He has confronted her on many occasions, she refuses to acknowledge that she has a problem nor show any willingness to get help - therapist. I have met his children and they are relieved that dad is happy and confirmed to me that indeed mom does have a problem. They are now on the road of obtaining a divorce.

 

HN, many MM are conflict evaders, my MM- if you can call him that is one. He hates confrontation, whilst I hate arguments, I would take the bull by the horns in order to tackle the issues. Maybe its just a trait that's inherent in MM.

[herenow]

HN, many MM are conflict evaders, my MM- if you can call him that is one. He hates confrontation, whilst I hate arguments, I would take the bull by the horns in order to tackle the issues. Maybe its just a trait that's inherent in MM.

 

Inherent in MM who cheat! Don't forget that there are many marriages that end in divorce without the MM cheating.

 

An OW to some MM is no different that a bottle of booze to an alcoholic. And sometimes the alcoholic doesn't really care about the brand or flavor of his drink, he only cares that it numbs the pain he feels within himself.

[CAMAYPARK]

Well, she may be a bat out of hell, but that can't be a NEW development in her character and yet he stayed with her for 20 years. That's a long time, so I can't help but believe that he avoided confronting her on these issues in any significant way or he'd have divorced her long ago. Conflict resolution is not the strong suit of cheaters.

 

 

Whilst we are clear, do I believe that MM is a serial cheater? No and I am not being dislussional either. And, his W, didn't catch him out, his W would have never known if he hasn't confronted her and basically drum the fact of their marriage breakdown into her. And I am not trying to be cruel here, I am merely trying to get across the fact that she believes what she wants to believe- her own version of the truth. He told her about me, what I do for a living, where I am and his plans.

 

After that outburst, I waited for weeks for her to call me up and confront me and have a go at me. That never came about. I have a distinct feeling that she is now once again believing that all's well in their marriage, despite the fact that they are apart.

[BrotherD]

Thanks all of you for chiming in...

 

Can we all agree on the following?

 

Until they are divored or split up, the results will be the same...

 

it's like adding up 2+2 (AGAIN) and hoping it will equal 723!?

 

And staying involved means you get treated badly...Even though it seems you are trying to be helpful, I think the results could arguably be labeled "abusive" Because if you're in love, who would want to hear the following BS?

 

 

I've got to go home now...

 

Phone rings, "Oh, that's the spouse,"(and hear then friggin LIE)

 

Details of the marriage..uh no thanks.

 

Addiction issues? Ummm, pass..

 

and through their actions, tell you over and over again that you are second fiddle...

 

 

Again abusive, wierd crappola.

 

So the futility NEVER goes away until they are single. Period.

 

Waitng around and getting involved in the funked up triangle isnt any fun.

 

SO WE ARE NOT MISSING ANYTHING BY LEAVING!!! YAY!

 

STOPPING the crazy train and getting off is the only option.

 

thats what I did.

 

Im sad

 

I am (was?) very attracted to my married sweetheart.

 

There is no way it's going to continue the way it was.

 

So, the only leverage we as OP have to to withdraw from firestorm.

 

Thats why I proposed original question.

 

Are they hurting?

 

Do they think of us as much as we think of them?

 

Are the feeling relief?

 

Will they come back?

 

or is it as simple as this?

 

They didnt choose us.

 

It might be just that.

 

They didnt choose us.

 

I hate that.

 

Maybe they arent crazy, addicted, narccissits.

 

MAYBE THEY JUST DIDNT CHOOSE US.

 

oh boy.

[2sure]

Sigh. As a BS, I admit I dont like it when I feel bad for the OW/OM. But I find I often do.!

 

You know, often times it isn't that the WS has not chosen you.

Its that the WS CANNOT make a decision. Not to save their own lives, let alone the others involved.

 

Either way, your revelation that it is best to steer clear of relationship triangles is a very very good one.

[skywriter]

I appreciate 2Sure for being so openminded to both sides here. I've read so many stories here and have learned quite alot from many of these stories. It gets pretty darn mentally exhausting to say the least. I make myself come back and read more though because I have vowed to never ever put myself in such a predicament as this again. When my now exH and I were still together I used to ask him to please never cheat on me, just be honest about the fact that you have desires for another person and let me go first. Now I realise how silly I must've sounded, because it isn't so cut and dry as we like to paint it.

[frannie]

Thanks all of you for chiming in...

 

Can we all agree on the following?

 

Until they are divored or split up, the results will be the same...

 

it's like adding up 2+2 (AGAIN) and hoping it will equal 723!?

 

And staying involved means you get treated badly...Even though it seems you are trying to be helpful, I think the results could arguably be labeled "abusive" Because if you're in love, who would want to hear the following BS?

 

 

I've got to go home now...

 

Phone rings, "Oh, that's the spouse,"(and hear then friggin LIE)

 

Details of the marriage..uh no thanks.

 

Addiction issues? Ummm, pass..

 

and through their actions, tell you over and over again that you are second fiddle...

 

 

Again abusive, wierd crappola.

 

So the futility NEVER goes away until they are single. Period.

 

Waitng around and getting involved in the funked up triangle isnt any fun.

 

SO WE ARE NOT MISSING ANYTHING BY LEAVING!!! YAY!

 

STOPPING the crazy train and getting off is the only option.

 

thats what I did.

 

Im sad

 

I am (was?) very attracted to my married sweetheart.

 

There is no way it's going to continue the way it was.

 

So, the only leverage we as OP have to to withdraw from firestorm.

 

Thats why I proposed original question.

 

Are they hurting?

 

Do they think of us as much as we think of them?

 

Are the feeling relief?

 

Will they come back?

 

or is it as simple as this?

 

They didnt choose us.

 

It might be just that.

 

They didnt choose us.

 

I hate that.

 

Maybe they arent crazy, addicted, narccissits.

 

MAYBE THEY JUST DIDNT CHOOSE US.

 

oh boy.

 

BrotherD, I think one way to 'stay sane' during all this is to just realise that it's not about you. I think we as OP can easily start to believe that if they only loved us enough, they'd leave, and that mantra of 'if he loves you he'll move mountains' feeds into that whole idea. But really, ending a marriage isn't about how 'in love' you are with someone else, its about the marriage itself.

 

No one is going to end a marriage unless they're totally through, mentally, emotionally, practically and in every way imaginable, and that can take an awful lot of time. Added to that there's the fact that cheaters are often conflict-avoiders, PA, guilt-and-fear-ridden, and these things can be crippling. Even if they're 'through' with the marriage they often can't pull the trigger. You only have to read enough in Infidelity to see that all the time. Self-doubt, apathy, fear of the unknown... argh the list is endless, and even the most mentally-healthy (and after all, who is that?) will find it a difficult process.

 

Getting a divorce just cannot happen on the OP's timescale. The OP is living on a different timetable that involves not wanting to be an OP, shame, guilt, embarrassment, Christmases alone (as opposed to the 'this might be my last Christmas with my kids as a family' the MP is feeling), maybe he doesn't love me? HE MUST PROVE IT! desperation... see what I'm saying, the OP and the MP are on different planets often in terms of timescale.

 

As soon as the OP realises that they must take care of themselves first, take time-outs if necessary, end it if necessary, go NC to protect themselves from the lunacy, keep their own lives, and try not to obsess about the end result... then they can live in some kind of sanity.

 

But making it all about 'does he love me enough' and time pressures is only going to make things difficult. The only thing you can do if things are getting rough is take time out... or end it. You have to remember... it's not all about you