me make sense of it all..no roses around my door

[LadyCakes]

Hello everyone.

Thank you to everyone else too, your posts are so beautifully honest and I really appreciate all that you say, even though I may not want to hear all of the contents of the posts! Lol!

 

I agree, it would be very interesting to know what is going on in HER head (ex”W”). Well, on Sunday night I got a bit of an insight.

 

My BF doesn’t really like to talk about things unless he is in the mood so most of the time I have to accept that even though I can talk until the cows come home, he doesn’t like to. Well, on Sunday it was a rare exception and we had a very open talk about a few issues.

 

Oh, before I go into that I just wanted to say that on Sunday I stayed round his new flat for the first time and it felt really good that we had reached this massive milestone. All those months I have spent wishing he would leave his long term partner and move out and he finally has. He isn’t couch surfing or “staying with a friend”...he actually has his own flat which he has rented (and therefore signed a lease contract for quite a foreseeable time). It’s a massive relief for me and as I lay in bed with him that night I couldn’t stop smiling as I lay in his arms it was such a good feeling!

 

Anyway, I’m digressing....we went to dinner at a really quiet little place and we were the only ones in the restaurant so we could talk openly. I asked him out of curiosity how his ex had reacted to him moving out on Friday. I knew he had been round there on Saturday to see his son so I know something must have been said.

 

I could tell when he was talking that he was getting a bit upset. He admitted that he is finding this all very hard and even though it’s absolutely no reflection on how he feels about me he does feel very guilty for leaving her. I said “why, what did she say?” and he said that she was very very upset in Saturday when she realised that all his clothes had gone etc and that he had actually left to move into this new flat. He said that she was speaking to him and crying really badly saying that “the place isn’t the same without you” and that she was “really sorry for all the fights and for letting her mother get involved with their personal business”.

 

Now I’m not a heartless person and I actually felt awful when he was telling me how upset she was (after all, ive been there myself before and I know the pain). Then she said the thing that really got to my BF, she said “please come home, for **** [their son’s] sake, your missing out on so much, like when he wakes up in the morning and is chatting away in his cot, your missing so much”. He was getting tearful when he was talking to me and I decided to put all my feelings to one side for a moment, took a deep breath and said to him “ ***** [his name], your happiness is and has always been the most important thing to me. I want you to be happy and I don’t want you to stay with me just because you don’t want to hurt me” then I asked him “do you want to go home?” (i.e. Back to his ex and child). He then took my hand and with tears in his eyes he said “no darling, I don’t, I’m just finding this all so hard, harder than I expected. I’m not in love with her and I don’t feel like that about her at all anymore but I still care about her as a person and I hate knowing I’m causing her so much pain”.

 

He said that she is so bad he is worried that she is having a breakdown. I asked if he had thought about going home and he said that of course he had thought about it in the sense that it would be an option but he then looked at me and said that he knew, that if he did that, he would be sitting on his sofa, flicking through the channels, bored, stuck in a loveless relationship and all that would be going through his mind would be me and what I was up to. He said that he left his ex because he couldn’t bare the though of losing me and still couldn’t. I asked him a very straight to the point question about his ex and him (in light of the fact he spends so much time round there), I said “do I have anything to worry about? Are you going to go home?” and he said “No, you have nothing to worry about, nothing at all.

 

At this point in time I don’t want to go back (as there are no guarantees in life) the whole situation is just breaking my heart”. He than said that he thinks he needs to get some help in understanding why he is so angry about everything and why he is finding this all so hard. I came out of the conversation reassured that he does love me and wants to be with me but if I’m honest it has done nothing for my paranoia regarding the ex. I now know that she is an emotional wreck and wants him back. We touched briefly on the him telling her about me conversation as I said that without her knowing about me she will still be under the impression that they might patch things up and the door is open to reconcile and he said to me “with how unstable and upset she is, how can I possibly throw the news of you into the mix as well, it would kill her”.....

 

I had no answer, as from experience, I know that he is right, news of me could well tip her over the edge. On the flip side, I don’t even know her and him not telling her is putting so many negatives into our relationship....I'm stuck as to what I should do, how I should feel etc. Today is not a good day for me. I’m finding this all very hard.

 

Lastly, i suppose i should mention; when i was round his he said that he wants to write a little book fro his son and give it to him when he is older about him and his thoughts etc and I said that i thought that that was a lovely idea. I then said 2so what will you write about first”. He then said “well, I guess i should start by saying how i felt when i found out”...stupidly i said “found out about what” and he said “about her being pregnant”...i said “oh”. I don’t know why but that sentence he said really hurt. I hate thinking about how he must have felt and the hugs and excitement that they both must have shared together at the news etc.

 

I know its because im jealous but i think iy goes deeper than that. If im honest i think its because im not sure i can handle that he has a child with someone else. Not his little boy, im not jealous of him, he’s lovely...its the whole experience that he has already shared with another woman..not me. I really want kids in the future but i hate thinking about (if he and i ever did0 that all the experiences through pregnancy etc..he would have already done before. It really really bothers me....how f*cked up is that!!! Honestly everyone...am i crazy????

[Billie63]

I'm sure he hasn't told you the half of it. I would stake a week's wages that she has asked him if there is anybody else and he has said no.

 

But that's by the by. I think he should tell her the truth - she will get angry and will be shocked but eventually she will accept it and will gradually move on.

 

He's said he's going to tell her after Christmas at least. Can you imagine her anger when he finally comes clean. She will feel so foolish knowing she pleaded with him to stay, not knowing there was you in the background.

 

You can see why the BS can turn into the wicked witch of the east.

 

As for you being scared of his dad status - reality is kicking in now - this is a whole other world ahead of you with not just your man to consider but a two year old. It could be wonderful if you keep the right attitude.

 

If you want to ensure he does not go back to her, continue being the best girlfriend in the world, the woman he fell in love with. And learn to pick your arguements. Him leaving his clutter behind at her house makes total sense to me.

[OWoman]

he said to me “with how unstable and upset she is, how can I possibly throw the news of you into the mix as well, it would kill her”.....

 

How? TO help her to heal, and move on, is how. By holding out false hope he's preventing that, and when she finds out - as she will - that there's "someone else", THAT is going to pus her over the edge far worse than his telling her now will!

 

These men that try to avoid hurting anyone just land up hurting EVERYONE, even if they kid themselves at the time that that's what they're doing.

 

He thinks he's being kind; he's not, he's being deceitful - at least, that's how she will see it when the truth comes out. If he REALLY cared for her, he'd be honest with her and allow her to move on with her life, as he's doing with his.

[lost4ever]

Really? How much more do you need from this man for him to show he loves you? Leaving his wife wasn't enough, leaving his son, still not good enough....get over yourself, you either love him or you love the way this is making you feel

[GreenEyedLady]

I have to disagree here.

 

The longer he can keep her from finding out about you, the less animosity she will feel which will help with an easier D.

 

And then there's no "competition" feelings involved.

 

Just my observation.

[wildsoul]

I have to disagree here.

 

The longer he can keep her from finding out about you, the less animosity she will feel which will help with an easier D.

 

And then there's no "competition" feelings involved.

 

Just my observation.

I'm not experienced, but my instincts agree with GEL on this.

 

However, I'd like to add that then it would also be best if the MP files rather quickly, to minimize the time that the R that began as an A stays hidden. Then the OW doesn't have to feel like the dirty secret for any longer than necessary. Make sense?

[frannie]

I said “do I have anything to worry about? Are you going to go home?” and he said “No, you have nothing to worry about, nothing at all. At this point in time I don’t want to go back (as there are no guarantees in life) the whole situation is just breaking my heart”. He than said that he thinks he needs to get some help in understanding why he is so angry about everything and why he is finding this all so hard.

 

I'm wondering whether he's not just got to face these very natural feelings and work through them? You've given him chance to say how he feels and whether he wants to go back, I think you were very 'brave' (if that's the right word) in doing that, and he's said he wants to work on staying out. Of course it's going to be hard for him, there are a lot of things for him to process. How could he possibly walk away from all that without guilt and some misgivings, some wondering about whether it's 'the right thing?'. I don't know if that's anything he should be worrying about, since those feelings show he's human. I'd be more worried if he just waltzed out of the door with no backward glances.

 

I'm not saying that he doesn't need some kind of help, I think it's good he's recognising this and talking about it, but I do think that what he's feeling is natural and normal.

 

We touched briefly on the him telling her about me conversation as I said that without her knowing about me she will still be under the impression that they might patch things up and the door is open to reconcile and he said to me “with how unstable and upset she is, how can I possibly throw the news of you into the mix as well, it would kill her”.....

 

As the other responses to this part show, there are two completely different ways of looking at this. Yes, she might find it more helpful and be able to move on quicker, without illusions, if she knew about you. On the other hand he might well be right, and throwing another woman into the mix might just trigger all sorts of negative and destructive emotions in her. Whether those are of competition and non-co-operation where the child is concerned, or self-destructive feelings and more anxiety no one on this forum can possibly know.

 

On balance I'd say that as he's moved out now and has no intention of going back, whether he's involved with someone else is a moot point. I know not everyone feels that way. But I feel that if HE makes it clear that there is no going back, by his language and behaviour, then she will find it easier to accept, even if she is unaware of an OW. I have to say that thus far he's not been giving her the 'right' impression, what with spending all his free time there. But it looks like things are going in the right direction... albeit very slowly.

[Purple_me]

Letting a woman believe there's always chances of going back (what he's doing by not telling her his heart is already taken) is mean and also, selfish.

 

He has to tell her.

 

I haven't read your entire story, but don't you feel he's letting that door open just in case? I don't know why I kept feeling that while reading this threat.

 

P.

[OWoman]

The longer he can keep her from finding out about you, the less animosity she will feel which will help with an easier D.

 

If she's reluctant about the D, and still holds out hope of a reconciliation, D is not going to be easy. D would be easier in that case if she knew hope was pointless, and could let go.

[LadyCakes]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Hello again everyone, thank you for your replies. Oh i should just remind everyone that i just called his ex “W” as it was easier. She and my BF, although together for over 20 years were never married and therefore there are no divorce proceedings needed, this is purely a separation. There really are two ways of looking at this aren’t there? On the one hand I understand why he doesn’t want her to know about me as primarily, this would hurt her very badly, secondly she may make things very difficult regarding him and his son and lastly, if she isn’t completely stupid than she may figure out that I’m not new on the scene. However, the other part of me, now that I am his partner, not her, wants him to put ME first, above her feelings. I want him to think to himself “this must really be hurting *** [me] and I love her and want to make her happy, therefore im going to tell the ex that im with someone else”. But that’s just a pipe dream for the moment. I know he loves and cares for me, im just inpatient I suppose as I want the happy ever after dream now! I remember a saying that someone one said to me that may be applicable to this situation and that is the “just because someone does not love you the way you want them to love you doesn’t mean that they don’t love you with all they have”. I like that saying and I think it may be true of my situation. He has said to me that he will tell her in the New Year and I guess all I can really do on this point is wait and see. I would hope he would tell her before our anniversary in February, but someone on here did point out that what is the point in me making deadlines if, if he doesn’t meet them there are no consequences. It’s a valid point. I know in my heart that come Feb if he hasn’t told her then I won’t leave him. However, having said that, if he hasn’t, should I take that as a strong indication that im really not as important to him as I hope I am? Should I, if nothing gets said, walk away?[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]This is all so frustrating and I bet all you OW feel exactly the same when I say that it is not supposed to be this hard. Love should not be a struggle. I see couples in the street all loved up etc and wonder if they are lucky enough to not have all these dramas in their relationship. Then again we all knew what we were getting ourselves into didn’t we? Im sure if I didn’t say that all the BS on this site would give me an ear bashing.[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]One of you lovely ladies on here said regarding his son that this situation could work out brilliantly if I have the right attitude. I agree, and this is what I want. I wouldn’t say this to my BF as he might think of me as a bunny boiler but there is nothing more that I would like than for me and his son to have an amazing relationship and I want to be a great step mother (ive never used those words “step mother” in front of BF as he may think im jumping the gun...rightly so probably). But what im trying to say is that I really want this. I want his son to get to know me and visa versa, come stay at what may one day be our home etc and see how much his father and I love each other. I want us to be good role models for him so he can learn what a loving relationship is like and how two people can really be a great team. However, all that’s going on in my mind when I write this is that I know if his ex knew I was thinking this (if she knew about me) she would be livid. I can understand this as if the little boy was mine and my ex-partner met a new woman I would hate the thought of her interacting with my child. But I guess that’s life and families these days come in all shapes and sizes. What I am trying to say is I understand that his son comes as part of the package and I want to take this on and be a step mother to him! Eekk! On the flip side, I still admit that it does bother me he has a child. I think im coming to realize though that it’s not the child that bothers me it’s the ex and all the experiences they have shared because of the child...and im being honest...im jealous. I know she never will but I wish she would just disappear![/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]This week is a tough one as we have gone from living together to him having his own place and im missing him. We will be seeing each other on Sunday and that seems like an eternity away. Don’t get me wrong I have work and university and my friends to see etc but it feels like we have gone backwards in a way to what it was like when we fist started the A (i.e. only seeing each other once a week maybe twice). He said that now he is in his own place and has some space he really needs to sit down and work out a schedule of when he can fit everything in. He has work, seeing his son, seeing his friends and me all to fit in. He said he just wants to do things in a way that is fair on everyone. I agree with him and realize that he does have a lot going on. Question from all you ladies with kids (or any separated men on here), how often should he be having contact with his Son? Or should it just be that he should see him as often as he can? I only ask as im sure he is going to put his time planning proposal to me at some point and ask if im happy about it. I should say at this point that im happy with him seeing his son as much as he wants to...I just don’t want him spending his contact time with the ex also. Don’t get me wrong I have no issue with him going round there, having a chat etc with her and being civil but I don’t want him spending 10 hours a day round there like he has been. I can tell this may be a contentious issue between us in the near future and may cause an argument. He has said to me that I have no reason to worry about him being round there as he doesn’t feel like that about her etc and I need to stop being paranoid but im afraid this is one I just cant let go of. He has his own place now and is separated from her so I expect him to put my feelings into consideration and acknowledge that I am not happy about it and not do it. Am I expecting too much? Im not going to bring this up yet as he has only had his own place less than a week and that’s hardly enough time to create a new schedule but I will bring it up if, in the New Year, things haven’t changed. Question ladies.....is there any reason that what I want in this respect is unreasonable? Are there any reasons why, him spending all day round there would be ok? – I only ask as I realize that sometimes even when you think your in the right you can be wrong. This whole thing with dating a man with a child is still very new to me and I really need advice on how I should handle certain things. What I want is for them to split their parenting time. In that their son spends time with Daddy and then time with Mummy...not joint all the time....is this wrong???[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Lastly, someone on here said that I should, in the meantime, while so much is uncertain just be the best girlfriend I can be. Be fun and be the person he fell in love with. Its good advice and believe me I am trying but it is so hard to be happy and upbeat all the time when there are so may issues that are narking you! It’s very hard for me to be all smiley when I see him when I know he has spent the whole day round there with his ex and he knows it hurts me...im working on it though. For example, last night I was a bit emotional (maybe it’s that time of the month lol!). Anyway, I had a little cry to myself in my room and while this was happening he text me to ask how I was. I lied and sent a very chirpy upbeat message about how good I was etc. We text back and forth until it was bedtime and when I said goodnight he sent me back a message saying how much he loved me. It made me feel better but I still am finding this whole situation extremely hard to deal with. How im feeling must be insignificant compared to how much he must be going through but it doesn’t make it any less hard for me to deal with my own issues![/sIZE][/FONT]

[frannie]

Letting a woman believe there's always chances of going back (what he's doing by not telling her his heart is already taken) is mean and also, selfish.

 

He has to tell her.

 

I haven't read your entire story, but don't you feel he's letting that door open just in case? I don't know why I kept feeling that while reading this threat.

 

P.

 

If she's reluctant about the D, and still holds out hope of a reconciliation, D is not going to be easy. D would be easier in that case if she knew hope was pointless, and could let go.

 

Only since when did the fact there's another woman involved mean that 'it's pointless' to attempt a relationship/reconciliation? If women really felt that way there wouldn't BE any OW!

 

The fact there's another woman involved does not necessarily mean the W will lose hope at all. It can mean she tries harder to 'win' him back, because suddenly him leaving isn't about the breakdown of their relationship, it's all about another woman 'stealing' him.

 

No, we don't all react that way, but some people do, and who knows how finding out about LC will affect her MM's W?

 

I still think that the only real way to let someone know that there is no hope of reconciliation is to tell them there is no hope of reconciliation. Even then of course they can refuse to acknowledge or accept it. But words can be backed up by unequivocal actions (i.e. leaving, not spending all free time at exes, and filing for divorce).

[jj33]

Throwing Lady Cakes in her face is going to make the D more difficult. If you speak to any divorce lawyer they will tell you that. Whether it is the right anwer for the new girlfriend of the W may be different but its not the best thing in the majority of divorces.

 

Whether he is leaving the door open has nothing to do with whether or not he tells her. There are loads of stories about men who are seeing someone new and the W knows it and they go back.

 

What matters is what is in this man's heart. And it sounds like he believes that he wants out but is having trouble dealing with the consequences of his actions.

 

Is that REALLY a surprise to anyone? He was with her for 22 years. They have a young child together. If he didnt have second thoughts or some sort of remorse he would be inhuman. Very few decisions are crystal clear. There are always trade offs, and often some regrets.

 

In this case he regrets that he doesnt feel differently about the woman, and would not be happy staying and being a happy family together. And Lady Cakes that is no reflection on you. But who WOULDNT want their original life choice to have worked out perfectly?

 

To me that sounds very normal. And its not something that will necessarily pass in a matter of weeks. But it doesnt make it easier for Lady Cakes.