Nemo Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 Call me naive, I think love is enough to overcome minor things like that! I know lots of happy couples with a slob and a neat freak. Ohhhh... that's so sweet. Naive, but sweet. Seriously, though. I agree. Those things are more-or-less irrelevant when it comes to true emotional compatibility in a loving relationship. Meaningless details. You will never be happy in life without perspective. Kind of like not being able to see the forest for the trees - sadly, some people are destined to nit-pick their potential happiness to oblivion.
berrieh Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 You'll learn. That's just one example of an issue that can cause friction, especially in something seriously committed like marriage. Speaking about marriage, strongly differing financial perspectives is one of the top items that cause divorce. I suspect that some of you might also be able to provide an example of marriages that "work" when one partner is financially responsible, while the other spends like there's no tomorrow. Good luck with that one too! In both cases (messy, finances), what challenges the relationship isn't the trait itself, but generally refusal to address the issue or being passive-agressive about it. From the marriages I've seen, I think marriages with strong communication overcome such differences and are better off for their differences. A slob can help a neatfreak lighten up, and a neatfreak can offer a slob some much-needed order, especially if they choose to acknowledge their differences, learn from each other, and work together, as one should in a relationship. A lot of the problems with differences I've seen arise are more due to the fact that the people in the marriage approach it with a "You/Me" mentality, rather than an "Us/Team" mentality. I do think if people's values are fundamentally different, it won't work, though, so it depends if these superficial differences are reflective of different core values or truly superficial.
betterthandead Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 Probably because he's old. I find it very odd when a guy who is a good catch (meaning healthy, good looking, stable income, straight, mentally stable) to still be totally single at 40+. Since we seem to have a number of them here, would you care to explain how that's possible?
Posco_Proudfoot Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 I do think if people's values are fundamentally different, it won't work, though, so it depends if these superficial differences are reflective of different core values or truly superficial. This is what has happened in my current relationship. I even proposed and we planned on getting married next year (currently separated). Our idea's about money were really off. She had no plan for the future and spent every dime she made, in debt, and savings was nonexistent. I was the opposite and made 2x more. she had tons of clothes, probably 100 pairs of shoes. That's where a lot of her money went. She acknowledged it was a problem at the time but when she moved in it was something on her mind all the time. She felt like she had to walk on eggshells to buy anything around me. So the whole thing with money became a central problem with us. What I didn't know at the time, say 2 months ago, how much money had an impact on a relationship. Other relationships we were always on the same page. Turns out she was so ashamed on her money issues that she avoided discussing it with me. I could go on and on about this one issue. I do know I'd rather live with her and her problems than without her at all. It's all background noise if you really love each other, but the communication and compromise is what keeps the relationship.
fral945 Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 If you look at ages for men who want to marry as a bell curve, generally late 20s up to about 40 would be the highest percentages. Earlier than that and they are usually not ready (maturity wise, financially, etc). Later than that and they are probably not interested or are not the marrying kind. I'm 28, and marriage/children did not even seriously enter my mind until the age of about 24 (about a year after I graduated college).
blind_otter Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 It totally depends on the man. My Dad didn't settle down until he was in his early 40s, and he became a happily married and committed man for the rest of his life. My 2 brothers-in-law, OTOH, met my sisters when they were 14 and married when they were 21 and are still married to my sisters. Different men settle down at different ages. The same is true for women.
Nemo Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 It totally depends on the man. You're so right - the woman has nothing to do with it.
carhill Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 es, you can like someone and be totally incompatible. If one person is a complete disorganized mess, clothing strewn everywhere and the other is a neat freak, how happy do you think the two will be together, nvm all the other traits that go with being disorganized/organized? Love is never enough Re-read this, everyone. I live this and it's so true. Topically, I was most interested in getting married between the ages of 28-40.
movingonandon Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 I think it depends on the guy, the relationship, etc. I agree that older men (especially 35+), if they've never been married before, are less likely to want to settle down and get married. Not that they won't, but they tend to get ridiculously picky and set in their ways by then, so it's harder. Sometimes this happens to women, too, but I think it happens more often to men. I've been thinking about this recently. I'm 32 and would like to settle, but, after a couple of long relationships in my 20s, things look differently now. Specifically the pickiness part: I realize that I'm becoming extremely picky, not because of any general inborn sense of entitelement, but mostly as a result of the fact that now I'm actually in a position where I really *can* be picky. (career, income, looks, self-awareness, confidence, etc. - all of these things are peaking right now, and will for some years to come). Call it a kid in a candy store syndrome (except that the kid has his own money, perhaps) Sounds good from the side, but in fact it can also be detrimental to relasionships, since I'm finding myself turning down decent women, or do not put much effort in relationships with them, just because I know I "could do better". If this goes on like this, I could easily see how one day i wake up 37 and still not married. (The pickiness happens to women too, but they're in a position to be that picky when they're younger. I don't want to open that can of worms though.)
samsungxoxo Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 My guess: 27 to 32. This also depends on the woman, if she wants to wait that long for year until she's in her late 20´s, early 30's, ok but if not then there's no point in it. I wouldn't want to wait that long in my 30's, many years of relationship with no commitment for marriage, not cool. Plus I like dating men close to my age, not 10 years older than me nor someone that can possibly be my father.
Nemo Posted December 7, 2008 Posted December 7, 2008 Re-read this, everyone. I live this and it's so true. Topically, I was most interested in getting married between the ages of 28-40. How many men do you speak for? If I had to guess, I'd say around 157. Having said that, they may be millions (billions?) of others who share your view of a view. If I were me, I'd re-read and re-read it until it really started to sink in. Thanks again.
carhill Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 Well, amongst my married friends where this dynamic is extent, I'm the only male for whom being a neat-freak is a dominant trait. Hence, I hear the complaints from the women. Note that the slobs never complain. Why is that? This would be my one sole argument against my rule of not living together before marrying. It's too easy to hide a disorganized mind when two people aren't living together. Social skills are highly refined propaganda As an anal interested person, I would opine you are highly neat and organized. A clean ass makes for a clean house, no?
CommitmentPhobe Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 I've been thinking about this recently. I'm 32 and would like to settle, but, after a couple of long relationships in my 20s, things look differently now. Specifically the pickiness part: I realize that I'm becoming extremely picky, not because of any general inborn sense of entitelement, but mostly as a result of the fact that now I'm actually in a position where I really *can* be picky. (career, income, looks, self-awareness, confidence, etc. - all of these things are peaking right now, and will for some years to come). Call it a kid in a candy store syndrome (except that the kid has his own money, perhaps) Sounds good from the side, but in fact it can also be detrimental to relasionships, since I'm finding myself turning down decent women, or do not put much effort in relationships with them, just because I know I "could do better". If this goes on like this, I could easily see how one day i wake up 37 and still not married. (The pickiness happens to women too, but they're in a position to be that picky when they're younger. I don't want to open that can of worms though.) Snap Although on top of that for me I keep moving to different parts of the world all the time with my career. Don't really want to give that up, it's too exciting.
orangehose Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 I'm actually in a position where I really *can* be picky. (career, income, looks, self-awareness, confidence, etc. - all of these things are peaking right now, and will for some years to come). Call it a kid in a candy store syndrome (except that the kid has his own money, perhaps) ...If this goes on like this, I could easily see how one day i wake up 37 and still not married. Well, the candy store will still be open in 5 years You're not under the same biological constraints as women who want biological children.
2sure Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 Whatever the average age is, I am sure it has gone up. People are putting off marriage and kids until college is finished and a career established. Some of this probably is somewhat dependent on area of the country and income level.
movingonandon Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 Well, the candy store will still be open in 5 years You're not under the same biological constraints as women who want biological children. Yeah, but ideally you don't want to overeat on candy. It ruins your teeth and distorts your view of healthy food. There is a fine line between picky and self-sabotaging. Moreover, dating is very distracting and is wasting of men's resources (and I don't mean money, but the ability to focus on the important stuff). All of the real bad guys in the movies (starting with The Godfather) are married young, and handling babies does nothing to their street cred (except enhance it).. So I guess eventually I need to put aside all the "are you good enough" crap, and in the paraphrased imortal words of Robert Downey Jr. be all: "Baby, we're making babies!"
Lizzie60 Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Just out of curiosity... any consensus? Hum... let's see.. I'd say at 31 years and 7 months.. exactly..
orangehose Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Moreover, dating is very distracting and is wasting of men's resources (and I don't mean money, but the ability to focus on the important stuff). Riiiight, right. Dating is SUCH a waste of a man's energy, when he could be doing all these incredible manly things. Whereas for a woman, what else would she be doing anyway if she weren't desperately trying to please a man and get married?
allina Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 I think lifestyle is one of the main factors here. From what I've seen men in the Navy/Army marry very quickly. Year of dating you have a wedding, year of marriage and you have a baby. The only married people my age that I really know are Army wives.
carhill Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Dating is SUCH a waste of a man's energy, when he could be doing all these incredible manly things. Whereas for a woman, what else would she be doing anyway if she weren't desperately trying to please a man and get married?A man who wants to "settle down" and is interested in a LTR will put energy and thought into the process of approaching a woman; what to say, what to do, what to suggest and how to react. He does this not because the woman is important to him yet, but rather that the potential and the relational dynamic is important to him. As the other poster related, such activities do expend his resources of time, energy and thought, resources he could be using to further other goals. OTOH, the woman he is approaching is going about her life, doing what she does and has made no similar advance investment. She merely looks on with interest or disdain upon his approach. Then there's dating
movingonandon Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Riiiight, right. Dating is SUCH a waste of a man's energy, when he could be doing all these incredible manly things. Whereas for a woman, what else would she be doing anyway if she weren't desperately trying to please a man and get married? hahah, If you can't do the time, don't do the crime! (it works both ways)
Charles1978 Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 I know that for me, it is highly career dependent. I have passed on many relationships while I was earning my engineering degree because I just wasn't financially ready to take on a relationship. They are expensive! Women who are close to my age are looking for marriage material, wanting to have kids, etc. I'm just not at that point yet, and it makes it difficult. I found myself avoiding serious relationships until my career was in order.
orangehose Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 A man who wants to "settle down" and is interested in a LTR will put energy and thought into the process of approaching a woman; what to say, what to do, what to suggest and how to react. He does this not because the woman is important to him yet, but rather that the potential and the relational dynamic is important to him. As the other poster related, such activities do expend his resources of time, energy and thought, resources he could be using to further other goals. OTOH, the woman he is approaching is going about her life, doing what she does and has made no similar advance investment. She merely looks on with interest or disdain upon his approach. Then there's dating Sorry if my earlier response sounded testy. I agree there is a certain "advance investment" of time and energy by men in strategizing the "approach", but it is small fry compared to the time and energy both sexes invest in an actual relationship, should one occur. Also, in terms of 'investment' in those early stages, it could be argued that women have to put a ton of effort into makeup, fashion, getting hair done, etc. And if they like a guy, they immediately start wasting time strategizing as well.
carhill Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 I thought women made themselves up for themselves and other women. That's what my wife does, anyway. All I get is no makeup, sweats and a pony tail Seriously, I think that pendulum (advance investment of time and energy) can swing both ways, but was responding from a purely male perspective. I know, from having a lot of female friends, that women generally share and network the process, as they do most everything, and use the team support approach to dealing with men. I see this with my wife and her single girlfriends. Boy, do they burn up the phone time
Rubix718 Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 30-35 for a guy I don't think you truly know yourself until that time. By then you should have gone through enough relationships both good and bad to know exactly what it is that you want. Plus financially you're in a better position to make a LT commitment. Anything below 27 or 28 and I think you're inviting trouble.
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