Telling the person you're dating that their friend is hot - cool or not cool?

[amaysngrace]

I enjoyed my time with him, but he really liked me and I just didn't trust that.

 

Yeah that's a whole other issue. But it's workable too.

[norajane]

I agree with the ladies. Shirt guy is a much better prospect because he doesn't generate fear in you.

 

I think you've associated fear with attraction, so the lack of fear makes you believe you're not attracted. And you may not be giddy and head over heels right away, but given time to really get to know each other, you just might develop a bond that creates that giddiness and desire because you start falling for the person he is, instead of falling for the instant giddy feeling despite the person a guy actually is.

 

And that's another point. The "ready to have sex" issue that you've posted about. It's not a matter of figuring out if he's going to drop you if you have sex too soon or wait too long. It's a matter of wanting to take it to a physical realm after you've reached a comfortable emotional place with him in the overall relationship and developed desire. You don't have to guess when is the "right time" to have sex when you're with a good guy. Any time will be the right time because you won't have to be afraid of what he will do afterward.

 

The guy who is going to be your life partner is going to be your friend, maybe even your best friend. You won't be afraid of him.

[xpaperxcutx]

SG I feel like I'm in the same position as you. I am constantly attracted to men who are either unavailable and/or emotionally damaged, that it sometimes feel like I'm the one at fault for being in such a destructive cycle. Of course when I completely stop I find myself fearing of getting close to anyone anyone.

[Trialbyfire]

Fear of loss is one of the most powerful relationship tools, that people use consciously and unconsciously. If anyone is deliberately triggering this on a regular basis, you have to seriously question how committed to making this work, they really are.

 

For you SG, this is bad mojo. It triggers deep.

[allina]

Right. I didn't know that he was an alcoholic until later.

 

Just like I didn't know the married guy was married until 7 months or so in. (I cannot even remember now.)

 

Just like I didn't know this guy was unavailable until the first time he flaked on me.

 

Just like I didn't know that my ex was unavailable until a few months in when he brought up that he might actually move away.

 

In other words, by the time I've found myself really liking them, it's too late. Perhaps the change is that I shouldn't allow myself to invest until I'm certain that they're available and invested as well?

 

There is something that has always puzzled me so much about you, it's related to the above. There are signs waaaaaaaaaay before you admit there are but you ignore them, excuse them and sweep them under the rug. I know you say that you believe in people and you want to give them the benefit of the doubt but the things you've allowed men to say and do do you have been jaw dropping to me countless times. Also, it boggles my mind to no end how it's possible for you to find mostly a-holes. There are countless men out there who would respect you, not curse at you and insult you, where and how are you bypassing all these men?

 

The alcoholic- You say you didn't know he was an alcoholic till later. Alcoholic or not, this man yelled and cursed at you in the middle of a crowded restaurant making you cry! And you went back to his place after wards! And then you kept seeing him!

 

Your Idaho Ex- He said you tried too hard and it was bugging him. He kept telling you he was moving and didn't want a relationship. He had you waiting outside of his house for almost 2 hours in your car because he "lost track of time" at diner with his friend. He broke up with you two times. But all through this you dug for evidence that he loved you. Seeing you cling so hard to a man that made it clear he didn't want to be with you was heat breaking.

 

The current clown- He has never complimented you but went on about how your friend was hot. Why didn't this make you lose interest to start? He disappeared because you "pouted" last time he had to leave. Then when you brought up the fact that you didn't like comments about your friend he said "not like I'm saying I wanna f*ck her."

 

Why don't you realize that for a man to speak to you like that is unacceptable? Not only would a man that had genuine feelings for you NEVER talk to you like that, no man worth seeing, on a romantic level or not, speaks to a woman like this.

 

I'm honestly taken back by how this happens to you. I hope this post doesn't anger or insult you. I also hope that you realize that a man that curses at you, insults you, mocks you and doesn't value you isn't worth the time.

[Trialbyfire]

"If I try a little harder, maybe he'll learn to appreciate and love me. What's wrong with me?"

 

Take that statement and turn it around.

 

"Treat me well and I will respond. Treat me poorly and we're done."

[melodymatters]

I too care about you SG, and have also wondered " where does she FIND these guys, and why doesn't she dump them IMMEDIATELY ?!?"

 

If you work on no other dating issue, work on your " Shut Off Valve'

 

By this i mean, when they show the slightest amount of disrespect, lack of interest, game playing, ANYTHING that makes you uncomfortable : SHUT IT OFF.

 

When I was a kid, I also fell for bad boys, or whatever, the key was growing my own self respect, to the point where if a guy started pulling any of that sh*t, I wasn't even angry, I was pissing myself laughing that he thought he could play that crap on ME.

 

And the valve shut off, and I forgot their existence, let alone their names, let alone would i waste a minute worrying or trying to contact them.

 

You have to draw firm lines in the sand and never ever cross them. Eventually, you practice this art long enough, you will ONLY be dating good guys, and out of that pool, perhaps you will find a compatible mate who will make you feel good and happy every single day.

 

good luck SG, we're all pulling for you !

[V.Vixen]

I didn't read through all the replies, btu I can tell you that you should dump this loser and never look back.

 

 

 

A guy who twists what you say like that is a manipulator and is probably a passive aggressive person.

 

How long have you two been dating? You deserve someone who treats you right, and that includes compliments, which he is busy giving other people (including your friends!)...

 

no way, jose. You are letting him treat you like crap. Don't allow that.. point blank. YOu don't need to change anything except for the fact that this D-bag is in your life.

 

This is why i remain single... I refuse to be treated anything less than I deserve.. you also deserve better.

[V.Vixen]

Right. I didn't know that he was an alcoholic until later.

 

Just like I didn't know the married guy was married until 7 months or so in. (I cannot even remember now.)

 

Just like I didn't know this guy was unavailable until the first time he flaked on me.

 

Just like I didn't know that my ex was unavailable until a few months in when he brought up that he might actually move away.

 

In other words, by the time I've found myself really liking them, it's too late. Perhaps the change is that I shouldn't allow myself to invest until I'm certain that they're available and invested as well?

 

One thing they all have in common: YOU.

 

To be blunt: whether you believe it or not I think you should look deep inside yourself to figure out why you attract these types of men. Men like these usually get a sense that a woman has low self worth or will tolerate unacceptable behavior for some time.

 

I won't pretend to be perfect, I married a drug addict. I knew deep down he had problems, but I chose not to see them because of what he 'could be'. When we divorced, i worked on ME and the route of the issue of why I felt the need to be with someone like that.

 

Self respect is hard to obtain, but once you do your whole world changes. It is hard to realize that a lot of these relationships aren't happening by chance.

[Trialbyfire]

One thing they all have in common: YOU.

 

To be blunt: whether you believe it or not I think you should look deep inside yourself to figure out why you attract these types of men.

SG already knows this. It's what she's been trying to figure out.

[V.Vixen]

SG already knows this. It's what she's been trying to figure out.

 

My apologies, I didn't know.

 

 

It's really a matter of respecting yourself, and really loving yourself. It takes work, but losers generally aren't attracted to a woman who is genuinely self respecting.

[Tarantula]

Just guess,you have no that sentimental feelings to the guy .

So just let him go . Let him go in real meaning .

 

His saying that your friend was hot and throwing compliments to the other women`s side does not necessarily say he is not the committed type of the guy,but the fact that he has not been saying same words to you ...it`s making to worry .

 

Just inappropriate . Throw a stone and go away .

[berrieh]

In case you couldn't put two and two together, this is from the guy from my other thread. He explained his absence (basically putting the blame on me, he said I made him "uncomfortable" the last time we hung out because I pouted when he had to leave), and when I cleared the air in that regard, he came back with that comment.

 

WTF?

 

Seriously?

 

Calling your friend hot is the least of the problems with this guy, from reading everything you've said.

 

To comment on the original question the problem isn't that he noted your friend was attractive; it's his overall unavailability and jerkitude. I agree with those who say to dump the guy.

 

I think sometimes it is okay to note that a SO's friend is attractive, and I think sometimes it's even endearing (depending on the context, like cheering up a newly dumped friend, etc). But randomly looking at pictures and asking you about your friends? That's pretty weird.

[Lishy]

Star, I am so feeling for you I know exactly how you feel!

 

This guy sounds like my recent ex and Mr Driveby mixed together. MD would make comments about my friends and hint that he thought they liked him (to try to make me jealous, and it worked) and my recent ex was a flake!!

 

Both are hurtful but put them together and its a one way ticket to Hurtsville!!

 

BTW, yes he is definately not boyfriend material and what he said was both inapproriate and arsholeish!

 

You know you can and will do better!

[IrishCarBomb]

Right. I didn't know that he was an alcoholic until later.

 

Just like I didn't know the married guy was married until 7 months or so in. (I cannot even remember now.)

 

Just like I didn't know this guy was unavailable until the first time he flaked on me.

 

Just like I didn't know that my ex was unavailable until a few months in when he brought up that he might actually move away.

 

In other words, by the time I've found myself really liking them, it's too late.

 

I think the bolded part is important. Did you find out you really liked them once their flaws were revealed? I don't see it that way.

 

People have said that you need to take note of early warning signs, and that those early warning signs actually may create some sort of attraction. I don't necessarily agree. If you were attracted to the flaws, you wouldn't leave when discovered. An attraction ancillary to the flaws is problematic, but I can't say for sure if you are really attracted to men that are bad for you. However, if you really think that the security blanket from dating an unavailable man is a significant factor in your attraction, you need to step back and really look at what you want.

 

For me, I just had to grow up a little bit to get over this (yeah, I used to sabotage relationships so they wouldn't develop into anything serious out of insecurity. Your comparison of me to this guy is apt and insightful, it kinda sucks to read this because it makes me realize some of the unnecessary pain my bull**** caused). Once I grew up and became a lot more self-aware, I just realized that the pain from the vulnerability and exposue (followed by being rejected or abandoned) wasn't as great as what I got out of those experiences.

 

Further, I had to really look at what I wanted. I'd love to get married and have a family some day. When I was really honest with myself, it was clear that I'll need to open myself to this risk if I'm ever going to attain that goal. I still freak out at certain points of a relationship, and also can find myself attracted to dead-end situations, but now my head has to take over these impulses, and it always calms my anxieties.

 

Your situation is probably much different from my own, but I can offer the same advice: when you know you're going back into the patterned behavior, just try to step back and reason out what you should do. Take your past issues into account, look at what you want for a relationship goal, and then look to the present situation. I always felt my subconscious biases made me snap to judge... but when I became aware of them, I could see how they sabotaged me, and now feel much more able to avoid the pitfalls of the past.

 

Perhaps the change is that I shouldn't allow myself to invest until I'm certain that they're available and invested as well?

 

This is a tough line to walk, because it can lead to being overly defensive. As I've said before, you have to give people a chance and try to look at them objectively to judge if they're right for you. Your quote above is consistent with that, but coupled with a hesitation and fear of repeating past mistakes can quickly lead to prejudice against certain types and being overly defensive.

 

I see too many posts on here that give some mundane and trivial reason why a guy or girl is rejected. "OMG his shirt wasn't tucked in!" "OMG she didn't hold the door for me!" It bothers me when people's past painful experiences lead to these stupid prejudices. Let me be clear: I don't think you'd ever become so guarded and quick to judge... but to intentionally prevent yourself from investing is a step in that direction. Whether or not it's a step you need to take is up to you... but I feel the caveat needs to be mentioned.

 

The problem is my suggestion is probably much more difficult. I think that you are genuinely attracted to these guys, and without seeing their flaws you get attached because the time you both spend together strengthens the bond. Now, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's a great thing. The problems is that when its clear that they aren't right for you, you have to be able to cut that bond. As a guy, I've found it hard, but learned after getting into too many bad situations. (It was even harder to know that it wasn't my own old fears creeping up and dictating my behavior.) I wouldn't even know where to begin as a woman, since the emotional bonds seem much stronger even at early stages in a relationship. Abandonment issues would also make this a harder thing to adopt. But you have to recognize these issues, know that they may have got you into trouble in the past, and then make your decision.

 

Finally, pain can result just due to bad circumstances. Just because it hurts doesn't really mean you did anything wrong. Relationships have a lot of things beyond a person's control, so when pain results, it doesn't necessarily mean there you did anything wrong. I think you probably have a lot of stuff you DO need to work on, but don't let the pain of the situation amplify your criticism. When in pain, it's easy to be even harder on yourself, especially if you're especially bright and insightful ("I should have seen this coming!!!", "People expect me to be better than these petty mistakes!"). However, when the pain subsides, don't let the absense of it subdue your own self-analysis.

[shadowplay]

Not cool. ...........

[Star Gazer]

There is something that has always puzzled me so much about you, it's related to the above. There are signs waaaaaaaaaay before you admit there are but you ignore them, excuse them and sweep them under the rug.

 

Not really. The first signs are the ones I post about here, that's for sure. But those signs first show themselves AFTER I'm already in a relationship with them. Take your examples:

 

The alcoholic- You say you didn't know he was an alcoholic till later. Alcoholic or not, this man yelled and cursed at you in the middle of a crowded restaurant making you cry!

 

This was 2 weeks before we broke up, and 2 months after we became an official couple. Prior to that night at the restaurant, he was the perfect gentleman. From the beginning to the end, his drinking escalated. This is when it got bad.

 

Your Idaho Ex- He said you tried too hard and it was bugging him. He kept telling you he was moving and didn't want a relationship. He had you waiting outside of his house for almost 2 hours in your car because he "lost track of time" at diner with his friend.

 

This all happened in December, we started dating seriously in September. By the time he said all these things, I was head over heels.

 

The current clown- He has never complimented you but went on about how your friend was hot. Why didn't this make you lose interest to start? He disappeared because you "pouted" last time he had to leave. Then when you brought up the fact that you didn't like comments about your friend he said "not like I'm saying I wanna f*ck her."

 

Again, these things are at the END, not the beginning. We started dating in July. It's now December, and this crap started 3 weeks ago.

 

Why don't you realize that for a man to speak to you like that is unacceptable?

 

I do. I broke up with the alkie, and things are over with the current dude.

[Lishy]

I have found it is really hard to meet a guy who you like on all levels and feel deeply attracted to so when you do it is even harder when they turn out to be a dick!

 

Also, because it is so rare to find, when you do you think you can get them to change their dickish ways and come around to your way of thinking ... It never does though!

[xpaperxcutx]

SG maybe what you need to work on is learning to let go when the flaws present themselves. If you have the ability to not only see the flaws but also recognize how damaging they are to your self esteem, then you wouldn't have to subject yourself to more months of torture from this guy or that guy.

 

Learn to walk away.

[Star Gazer]

I think the bolded part is important. Did you find out you really liked them once their flaws were revealed? I don't see it that way.

 

No, you're right. Despite what Allina said, I like them long before the flaws are revealed, whatever those flaws may be (and they're very different from guy-to-guy). With the current dude, I liked him a TON before he did the first flaky thing, and then when he did I was just sooooo bummed. I cried! I sat there dumbfounded, I couldn't believe he was flaking on me, and particularly in the manner he did. To say I was heartbroken would be a huge exaggeration, but I felt a little crushed. I was disappointed. I knew that from that point forward if I continued to see him, I'd have this FEAR that I have with him now. I didn't want that, but I didn't want to let him go either. My bubble had been burst.

 

An attraction ancillary to the flaws is problematic, but I can't say for sure if you are really attracted to men that are bad for you. However, if you really think that the security blanket from dating an unavailable man is a significant factor in your attraction, you need to step back and really look at what you want.

 

I don't think that I look for men that are bad for me. I do, however, think somehow I intuitively figure out who I can't ever really "have," and go after them. My concern is the level of disrespect I've been experiencing with each guy has been escalating. This is the worst it's ever been with anyone.

 

As a side note, what I find really odd is that when men have cheated on me, I've been gone. Done. No second chance, period. I have absolutely no problem turning on my heel and walking under those circumstances. But when it comes to what I perceive as questionable behavior (which is most often confirmed by LS people as just flat out WRONG), I let it go. I tolerate it, I explain it, I justify it, I find fault with myself...instead of walking away as I would if they had betrayed me. Why do you think that is?

 

For me, I just had to grow up a little bit to get over this (yeah, I used to sabotage relationships so they wouldn't develop into anything serious out of insecurity. Your comparison of me to this guy is apt and insightful, it kinda sucks to read this because it makes me realize some of the unnecessary pain my bull**** caused). Once I grew up and became a lot more self-aware, I just realized that the pain from the vulnerability and exposure (followed by being rejected or abandoned) wasn't as great as what I got out of those experiences.

 

Honestly... Do you think that's what it is here? That he's sabotaging things?

 

BTW - today he sent me a text that said, "I don't get you." Huh? I think I'm pretty much an open book!

 

I still freak out at certain points of a relationship, and also can find myself attracted to dead-end situations, but now my head has to take over these impulses, and it always calms my anxieties.

 

How and when do you freak out? You know I'm asking you because of the similarities between you two. I'm just trying to understand here.

 

I always felt my subconscious biases made me snap to judge... but when I became aware of them, I could see how they sabotaged me, and now feel much more able to avoid the pitfalls of the past.

 

I think he does this with me too. He seems hyper-sensitive to certain things, that honestly make me laugh. I'll be like, "You've GOT to be kidding me, right??" and then he'll come back from his corner.

 

I see too many posts on here that give some mundane and trivial reason why a guy or girl is rejected. "OMG his shirt wasn't tucked in!" "OMG she didn't hold the door for me!" It bothers me when people's past painful experiences lead to these stupid prejudices. Let me be clear: I don't think you'd ever become so guarded and quick to judge... but to intentionally prevent yourself from investing is a step in that direction. Whether or not it's a step you need to take is up to you... but I feel the caveat needs to be mentioned.

 

Ahhhhh.... but I HAVE been that girl, even recently. I find fault in silly little things with the GOOD guys. If my current guy wore the lame shirt, I wouldn't care - at all. But with a good, respectful, demonstrably interested guy? It bugs me.

 

The problems is that when its clear that they aren't right for you, you have to be able to cut that bond. As a guy, I've found it hard, but learned after getting into too many bad situations. (It was even harder to know that it wasn't my own old fears creeping up and dictating my behavior.) I wouldn't even know where to begin as a woman, since the emotional bonds seem much stronger even at early stages in a relationship. Abandonment issues would also make this a harder thing to adopt.

 

I find it impossible to cut the bond. In fact, when I know a guy isn't right, when I know he's a jerk, when I know he's not that into me, I find myself either or waiting for him to end it or doing something to sabotage the relationship sooooo badly that he'll have no choice but to end things for me.

 

Finally, pain can result just due to bad circumstances. Just because it hurts doesn't really mean you did anything wrong.

 

To steal a line from my favorite movie, "The bad stuff is easier to believe."

[jerbear]

This just occurred to me.

 

You seem to like to chase those guys you can't have. Once you catch one, you'll like to have them chase you. You get upset when they don't chase and you try harder to get their attention.

 

Now the other side. If a guy shows interests in you and initiates a chase, you rebuff them.

 

BTW, I think you are cute and hot when you smile.

[Vertex]

Ungh, nothing against you, Star Gazer, but why do you subject yourself to this?

 

He's an *******. Just leave.

 

 

 

 

"BTW - today he sent me a text that said, "I don't get you." Huh? I think I'm pretty much an open book!"

 

I apologized if I missed something. Have you discussed all of this with him? Your fears/what your concerns are/how you feel about the way he treats you/etc/

[IrishCarBomb]

My earlier post wasn't meant to give any insight into his behavior. I have similar traits as this guy, but I am not him. I can't give you any more specific advice... even my general thoughts on his behavior are just based on my own speculation.

 

Rather, the post was to show that when we develop irrational negative patterns in our dating behavior, how we have to overcome them (my own info just demonstrative on how I've started to fix my own). You're well aware of the double standards you impose on the men you date (the good guys get harsh criticism, but to the jerks you are a doormat). Do you see yourself getting the relationship you want when you apply this standard? When you think ahead 10 years, do you see yourself meeting the ideal guy going about this in the same way you have? Or will an Edward Lewis have to come along?

[allina]

Not really. The first signs are the ones I post about here, that's for sure. But those signs first show themselves AFTER I'm already in a relationship with them. Take your examples:

 

 

 

This was 2 weeks before we broke up, and 2 months after we became an official couple. Prior to that night at the restaurant, he was the perfect gentleman. From the beginning to the end, his drinking escalated. This is when it got bad.

 

 

 

This all happened in December, we started dating seriously in September. By the time he said all these things, I was head over heels.

 

 

 

Again, these things are at the END, not the beginning. We started dating in July. It's now December, and this crap started 3 weeks ago.

 

 

 

I do. I broke up with the alkie, and things are over with the current dude.

 

Ok, you're saying that all these guys (and lets be honest there have been more than a couple) treated you wonderfully and pursued a relationship with you until suddenly, out of no where they turned in to a-holes or broke things off. That just isn't logical, that isn't how people operate, and I've seen you say otherwise yourself.

 

Even the current guy. The issue did not start with him complimenting your friend then saying "not like I said I want to f*ck her." You said yourself that he completely disappeared on you, he then blamed you for this because you annoyed him by pouting at the end of a date. And, earlier in this thread you stated that he was very rude to you once before all all this. I think it was in the beginning of this thread. I don't remember the details just that at the end of the post you said "Now I'm angry, lol"

 

The Idaho guy told you from the beginning that he was unsure if he wanted a relationship with you but you chased the relationship until he officially broke it off. Then you went back to him until he broke it off again.

 

My point is that you are wrong in thinking that things with these men have been great till some out of the blue issue/blow up, they haven't. You've chosen to ignore signals that these men weren't that in to you or weren't bf material, and you continue to do so.

[Jims555]

SG, I agree that this guys comment and the wording he used was not kosher.

 

personally, whenever i'm forced to comment on my girlfriend's friend's attractiveness, i try to drum up the most monotone, unenthused voice and say "yeah she's ok". even if the girl is smoking hot.

 

then he tried to backpedal on what he said. well thats to be expected... i think we've all said something that might have been a verbal faux pas, then try to take it back. but he tried to shift the blame onto you, which isn't cool either.

 

if this was an isolated incident, i'd put him on probation and give him another chance. but this sounds like a constant in your dealings with him, so i vote he gets dumped.