Telling the person you're dating that their friend is hot - cool or not cool?

[Stockalone]

By now we know what he doesn't do:

 

He is inconsistent in contacting you. Has he disappeared without an explanation only this once or more than that?

 

 

He doesn't compliment you, ever. But he does compliment other women on a regular basis. Not only that, but he has the gall to tell you one of your friends is hot and then makes you feel like the bad guy for wondering WTF he just did.

Caring about your feelings doesn't seem to be high on his list of priorities.

 

 

He is evasive if you inquire about his life. When that happens, he tells you that you read too much into things, that you misconstrue things.

He was also evasive when you asked about the hot friend comment.

Have you ever gotten a straight and honest answer out of him?

 

 

I am going to ask what it is that he does to keep you interested? Is there anything he does besides making you all giddy when you look at him? That crazy chemistry is great, but there should be something else, something more "substantial/positive" about him, that makes you feel at ease.

 

From what you have described, there can't be much of that with this guy. Maybe this helps a bit not to feel so sad right now. Knowing that he is lacking a whole bunch of qualities that you need in order to be happy in a relationship.

[Star Gazer]

Thank you for responding, ICB. I've always appreciated your outlook. At times, your perspective has made me actually think you WERE this guy. Not because of your/his behavior, but things you've said.

 

Anyway...

 

In connection with his absence, I'd say he's just making a power moves out of insecurity.

 

What's his dating history? (If you know...) If I had to guess, I'd say a lack of any serious relationships, or one intense relationship with a brutal ending.

 

As far as I know, he dated around in college but nothing too serious - casual girlfriends, and had one serious GF of three years that ended about a year and a half ago. He said they broke up because he was in a position after 3 years where he either needed to marry her, or breakup. He chose the latter. He also said that she smothered him, and always made him feel like she was trying to "one up" him. He said he doesn't keep in touch with exes, but recently (as in yesterday) added her to his Facebook. She's very pretty and is in a serious relationship with a new guy (who appears more attractive and fun and allathat, a "step up"), and yet here was my guy complimenting her pictures!!!

 

Some guys can't help themselves and just comment about women, your guy is not one of those (otherwise he'd have complimented you as a reflex). However, some guys get wary when they realize that they may be losing the upper footing in the relationship. A comment that someone's friend is hot (without any context to make it appropriate... in fact... calling her "hot" instead of pretty or attractive just seems odd..) just seems designed to let you know that you don't have control over him.

 

The timing of this comment was out of place. A few weeks ago, I had said, "Me and my friend Jane went here...blah blah blah..." And he said something like, "Who's Jane? The blonde Jane?" And I said, "No, the hot brunette Jane - don't you look at my pictures??" And he said, "No, it's not like I stalk you on MS or FB." (Oh please, he always makes comments about this or that which he'd only know from my pictures.)

 

Anyway, that was a fleeting convo about Jane like 3 weeks ago. Today, literally in the middle of our discussion about why he wigged out (because he likely thought I was getting too attached??), he just throws that out there. "Oh, BTW, your friend Jane is hot."

 

WTF? Where did THAT come from? And then of course he makes me feel like an idiot for being weirded out that he said that.

 

Has every (inappropriate) action been usually followed by a "huh?!?" or "Why does this make you so upset?", or generally just him being surprised by your negative response? If he is... then it's compounding the issue, because not only is he conjuring your negative feelings, he's framing it so that you feel like you're out of line for having those feelings.

 

You could that, yes. Most often, he doesn't understand why I'm upset and then freaks out about it. The first thing he ever did to upset me was completely stand me up. He did. He knows it. The next morning, after a night where I cried myself to sleep, thinking, "Who would do that? Who would be so rude? Who would burn a bridge unless they have no intention of ever being with me??", he called and claimed our plans were "tentative." Even if they had been tentative (which I do not think they were), I had called him twice and texted him three times to ask WTF he was...without response. All the while seeing him active on MS and FB. In essence, he was sitting on his couch flirting around knowing he had plans with me, seeing the phone go off, and not responding.

 

And he made ME feel like I was crazy!!!

 

The behavior is symptomatic (in my opinion) of his own fear of vulnerability. This is why I am guessing he hasn't had any great experiences with serious relationships... either his fear has been from childhood and he's never been serious with a girl, or his fear was learned from some traumatizing earlier experience. The problem is even worse if you see yourself as a "fixer"; because the more you try to fix him, the harder he will resist (and possibly making him seem like he "needs you to fix him" even more).

 

I don't know about being vulnerable. If anything, he freaks out and completely withdraws when we get close. I even told him that the last time we hung out, before (da da da!) he disappeared yet again for the past 3 weeks. My interpretation is that he doesn't want to commit, that he wants to play the field, that he's afraid I will suffocate him. I couldn't be any less controlling...so I don't know how he gets that "pressure" vibe from me.

 

Finally (and probably most important) is what you should do: nothing. As I just stated, any actions to change his ways will just make him recoil and get defensive. If you really like this guy, the best you can hope for is that he really wants to have a great relationship someday, and down the road he'll realize that he wants that with you. However, there's quite a bit of risk for you on that path. He may never sort his issues out, he may sort them out and realize he doesn't want to be with you, or you may realize after some time that you don't really like him.

 

I don't see how I've done anything to try to "fix" or "change" him. But I agree that doing NOTHING is all there is to be done.

 

I'm still sad though.

[Star Gazer]

You sound like all the OW in affairs posting in the OW/OM forum. They're miserable 90% of the time, and the other 10% is only when they're actually with MM and they can go into denial about how crappy they feel about the relationship the rest of the time.

 

The giddiness is just chemistry. Or maybe a combination of chemistry, and your own fear of abandonment...he can't abandon you if he's never yours to begin with, so that makes him more attractive than the men you CAN have.

 

Think back to who you were giddy about a year ago. Still even remember him? This too shall pass.

 

Better to let loser guys go before you get even more attached and it hurts even more to cut them loose later.

 

 

F**K. You're right. I sound like an OW. And having been an OW about 5 years ago, I know exactly what you're talking about. Time to nip this in the bud NOW.

 

And you're also right about who I was giddy about a year ago. Honestly, I don't even think about him anymore...and at the time my heart hurt so badly.

 

One thing I will give myself credit for: I'm resilient.

[norajane]

The first thing he ever did to upset me was completely stand me up. He did. He knows it. The next morning, after a night where I cried myself to sleep, thinking, "Who would do that? Who would be so rude? Who would burn a bridge unless they have no intention of ever being with me??", he called and claimed our plans were "tentative." Even if they had been tentative (which I do not think they were), I had called him twice and texted him three times to ask WTF he was...without response. All the while seeing him active on MS and FB. In essence, he was sitting on his couch flirting around knowing he had plans with me, seeing the phone go off, and not responding.

 

And he made ME feel like I was crazy!!!

 

Star, you have to see this kind of behavior as a big, huge red flag. You have to learn this and ACT on it when you see it.

 

Had you dumped him then, you wouldn't be feeling like this now.

[norajane]

One thing I will give myself credit for: I'm resilient.

 

That's it, girl! Time to bounce!

[amaysngrace]

F**K. You're right. I sound like an OW. And having been an OW about 5 years ago, I know exactly what you're talking about. Time to nip this in the bud NOW.

 

And you're also right about who I was giddy about a year ago. Honestly, I don't even think about him anymore...and at the time my heart hurt so badly.

 

One thing I will give myself credit for: I'm resilient.

 

She's also right about your fear of abandonment although you failed to acknowledge that.

 

If you want to be truly resilient you should find a way to change this about yourself rather than just letting jerks go. That's the easier path. The path on yourself would take true resilience.

 

You'll forget about this guy as soon as the next one comes along. But then what's the future going to hold with the new guy if you're still the same girl?

[Trialbyfire]

SG, intellectually, you know you're worth something. Emotionally, you need to believe that too. You deserve better than this guy and the others. You deserve to be treated with love and respect.

[Star Gazer]

She's also right about your fear of abandonment although you failed to acknowledge that.

 

Oh, well I had addressed that in the other thread...or so I thought.

 

NJ is right - it's a combination of chemistry and my abandonment issues. It's very true that he can't abandon me if he's never mine to begin with. This is likely why I repeatedly pick unavailable men. I can't truly be vulnerable to them because I never really have them, and that provides me a warped sense of security, a protection. That's what makes me want them.

 

You'll forget about this guy as soon as the next one comes along. But then what's the future going to hold with the new guy if you're still the same girl?

 

I worry about that.

 

SG, intellectually, you know you're worth something. Emotionally, you need to believe that too. You deserve better than this guy and the others. You deserve to be treated with love and respect.

 

Thanks, TBF.

[IrishCarBomb]

At times, your perspective has made me actually think you WERE this guy. Not because of your/his behavior, but things you've said.

 

Hah! I take it as a compliment!

[Star Gazer]

Hah! I take it as a compliment!

 

Actually, HE should take it as a compliment!

 

(I was hoping you'd have more to say than that, but I guess I got lucky with your original response as it was. )

[IrishCarBomb]

(I was hoping you'd have more to say than that, but I guess I got lucky with your original response as it was. )

 

Aw crap! I'm already flaking out too! (sorry... bad taste... sometimes I can't resist).

 

I'll follow-up a little later on, but I gotta head out for now (I swear this part isn't a joke).

[alphamale]

Quick poll: Say you're dating someone for a few months and this person has never complimented your appearance - ever.

that is abnormal

[norajane]

NJ is right - it's a combination of chemistry and my abandonment issues. It's very true that he can't abandon me if he's never mine to begin with. This is likely why I repeatedly pick unavailable men. I can't truly be vulnerable to them because I never really have them, and that provides me a warped sense of security, a protection. That's what makes me want them.

 

Maybe you can take a break from dating for a while. Take a break until the the guys who seem attractive to you are the guys who ARE available, rather than the unavailable types.

 

I know you want to meet someone special, but you aren't enjoying dating these guys you've been dating. And you give them too much benefit of the doubt even when there are big red flags, or many smaller red flags, just because you want it so badly to work out.

 

Just stop, get off the merry-go-round, stop running around the track chasing the quarry which always remains just out of reach. If you want to try new restaurants or see a play or go to a concert, go with your friends. Relax into your life and refresh your perspective. You're young, beautiful, and successful. Enjoy that and just stop the dating game for a while.

 

Once you "sit with yourself" for a while, it will become clearer to you what is important and what you want, and you'll have the will to say no when you are offered less than that even if it comes in a tempting package.

[Ocean-Blue]

Quick poll: Say you're dating someone for a few months and this person has never complimented your appearance - ever. One day they say to you, in the midst of a conversation about something totally unrelated, "By the way, I was looking at your pictures the other day and your friend Jane Doe is HOT!"

 

Would this irk you? Do you think you'd have a right to be perturbed? Guys and girls please.

 

This would TOTALLY irk me. I would be quite hurt and a little angry. First of all, why has he never complimented me? This would compound the complimenting of my friend, I think.

 

In my relationships, I'm quite vocal about who is hot and who is not. I am OK with my SO voicing his opinion too. But I have to be secure and know that he finds me hot, first and foremost. There's nothing wrong with find other people attractive. I don't think it's a no-no voice this opinion either...I'd much rather know they think someone is hot than not tell me.

 

But, if he has never said anything about my appearance, but is vocal about a friend's looks...WOW, that would NOT be cool with me.

[Isolde]

I actually kind of thought this was a joke

 

I don't think guys are there in a relationship just to tell women they're pretty, but this is just icky. It would be a different thing if he made it clear he found you irresistible and said, "oh your friend's cute," just in conversation, but "hot" is a really big red flag, in fact it's so big a bull would run into it.

[Star Gazer]

Maybe you can take a break from dating for a while. Take a break until the the guys who seem attractive to you are the guys who ARE available, rather than the unavailable types.

 

Problem is, the guys I find attractive ARE available at first - VERY available, very attentive, everything I'm looking for. It's only after they suck me in that I find out they're unavailable.

[amaysngrace]

NJ is right - it's a combination of chemistry and my abandonment issues. It's very true that he can't abandon me if he's never mine to begin with. This is likely why I repeatedly pick unavailable men. I can't truly be vulnerable to them because I never really have them, and that provides me a warped sense of security, a protection. That's what makes me want them.

 

It is a false sense of security. Most definitely.

 

Although I think these guys who provide you with a false sense of security actually bring out your insecurities. It's like the mother of all catch 22s. You will never be happy with a guy like that because they will never give you what you need. So you go to them to keep you from becoming vulnerable but at the same time the interaction with them leaves you vulnerable but in a different way. It's like a cycle.

 

TBF is right. You deserve love and respect. You deserve to have security in your relationship. And you deserve someone who will take the love you have to offer and treat it like the gift that it is.

 

But you have to believe that in your heart first.

[norajane]

Problem is, the guys I find attractive ARE available at first - VERY available, very attentive, everything I'm looking for. It's only after they suck me in that I find out they're unavailable.

 

Are you certain that you are available? Truly able to open your heart to someone who can become a life partner? Or do you reject those men in favor of the ones who get your heart pounding 100 mph right away?

[Trialbyfire]

Problem is, the guys I find attractive ARE available at first - VERY available, very attentive, everything I'm looking for. It's only after they suck me in that I find out they're unavailable.

These guys are attentive with the full court press. They have game to spit so they do it. Then when you've been hooked, it's time to play. Hook, drop, hook, drop, until you don't know which way is up.

 

The minute you get the hook and drop, you know the guy isn't all in and willing to meet you halfway. He's either uncertain or he's a playah. In either case, he's not all in.

[Star Gazer]

These guys are attentive with the full court press.

 

Ehhhhh, not really. Sometimes yes, sometimes not.

[Star Gazer]

Are you certain that you are available? Truly able to open your heart to someone who can become a life partner? Or do you reject those men in favor of the ones who get your heart pounding 100 mph right away?

 

I don't see the difference?

[Trialbyfire]

Ehhhhh, not really. Sometimes yes, sometimes not.

So some don't use the full court press? What are they doing then to make you believe they're available?

[Star Gazer]

So some don't use the full court press? What are they doing then to make you believe they're available?

 

Asking me out, pacing things nicely, leading me to believe they are looking for a relationship, developing one with me...

 

Take the alcoholic, for example. He was AWESOME at first. Then he started drinking more, and more, and more. All the signs were there that he was available, but we now know he SO was not.

[Trialbyfire]

Asking me out, pacing things nicely, leading me to believe they are looking for a relationship, developing one with me...

 

Take the alcoholic, for example. He was AWESOME at first. Then he started drinking more, and more, and more. All the signs were there that he was available, but we now know he SO was not.

With the alcoholic, is it possible that he was just a guy who couldn't always control his alcoholism, in that sometimes he could keep his drinking down to a functional level (decent guy) and other times he fell far off the wagon (abusive guy)?

[amaysngrace]

Take the alcoholic, for example. He was AWESOME at first. Then he started drinking more, and more, and more. All the signs were there that he was available, but we now know he SO was not.

 

That's a bad example. Alcoholics can never be 100% available. Unless they stop drinking. Which many do not.

 

That right there should be a flag for you. Unavailable unavailable unavailable.