Kingrat Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 This is very painful; I would like to have as honest answer as you guys can muster. I’m a solid professional with an outstanding carrier. I consider myself a great catch. I’m 38 and she is 35. We have been married for five years; I’m completely in love with her. Initially everything was perfect. However, routine and mundane preoccupations made us apart and we lost the desire. We have a 3 year old son that has also help take the attention from our marriage to dedicate to him. For a while it felt that we were roommates. I have come to learn that my wife has a 16 year long relationship with a “friend”. I have learned that they keep in contact with each other periodically; I also learned that they talk in a sexually explicit way and she would sleep with him if he was closer. She might have done it already while I’m away in business. I also know that this guy is a “player” he is the kind of guy who says all the right things and pushes all the right buttons. I believe she has feelings for him. After I learned about this “friend”. I became completely jealous and insecure. I asked her to discontinue her “friendship” and she has not done it. My biggest problem is that I have completely lost control of myself. I see my family falling apart so I have SHOWN VERY LOW VALUE. I’m losing sleep, I’ve cried, I even asked her after sex if she had faked orgasm. I feel that she has lost all respect she had for me. Right now I feel like the only option to get my life back is Divorce. She is not into me anymore and if she is not willing to cut this “friend” from her life it means that she likes him more. I’m fine with that and I passed the feel sorry phase. I want to get my life under control. Do you think this is recoverable? After showing all sorts of low value, can a woman gain respect back? In your opinion, is Divorce the option to get my life under control?
lkjh Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 You can recover your marriage but you first need to take some power back. Dont be so quick to give into her.
Konfuzion Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 If she isnt willing to part with him as a friend then I say show her the door.
carhill Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Sure it's recoverable. First step to recovery is to ascertain her true position. Have your lawyer serve her divorce papers. No discussion.
wildflowerchild98 Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Have you tried counseling? You and your wife should a marriage is for better or WORSE I think sometimes people forget or put to little emphasis on the WORSE part This means alot can go wrong but you made a promise to each other She has damaged the trust that is very true i THINK IT can be rebuild if both parties are willing to work at it! Good Luck!!~Chrissy
carhill Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Emotional attachments and physical affairs are inappropriate and unacceptable in the conduction of a marriage. This was straight from the lips of our MC. The only way to effectively work in MC is for the attachment/affair to end. If the W isn't willing to do this, MC is a waste of time and money. I'm saying this as the one with the attachment which I had to give up. The shock value of divorce papers will elicit a spontaneous response. Of course, there is a risk. Life is full of risks. Anything is better than what the OP is going through now. Hope it works out!
dead-dyke Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Have you tried counseling? You and your wife should a marriage is for better or WORSE I think sometimes people forget or put to little emphasis on the WORSE part This means alot can go wrong but you made a promise to each other She has damaged the trust that is very true i THINK IT can be rebuild if both parties are willing to work at it! Good Luck!!~Chrissy I agree w/ trying, but remember - 16 yrs.? Thats a long time to disrespect your partner.
Author Kingrat Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 I agree w/ trying, but remember - 16 yrs.? Thats a long time to disrespect your partner. Many thanks for the support. I have only known her for 8 years, been married for 5. She always told me that he was a "friend". Now I clearly know he is not. I went to my own counselor and she told me that MC should not happen if she cannot part with this relationship. 13 days ago we had the big showdown, I told her that I wanted him out of her facebook and out of her life. I said that I wanted her to talk to him and finish the relationship. I ask her to tell me after they talk so I know is done and can move on with fixing our relationship. She said she would do it in a day or two (??). She did take him out of Facebook. After that day she has been completely silent in the matter, as if it didn't exist. As if she had never said she would talk to him and inform me. Bottom line, SHE HAS NOT FINISHED THE RELATIONSHIP.
Author Kingrat Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 Emotional attachments and physical affairs are inappropriate and unacceptable in the conduction of a marriage. This was straight from the lips of our MC. The only way to effectively work in MC is for the attachment/affair to end. If the W isn't willing to do this, MC is a waste of time and money. I'm saying this as the one with the attachment which I had to give up. The shock value of divorce papers will elicit a spontaneous response. Of course, there is a risk. Life is full of risks. Anything is better than what the OP is going through now. Hope it works out! Thank you very much carhill, however using divorce papers to elicit her true position seems to me like a loosing bet. If she is unwilling to do this on her own she clearly is not into me and she wants to be with me for other reasons (money, stability, etc). The key here is if there is a way to make her break this emotional connection without me been seen as the person who caused the break. I believe she will resent me forever if I continue to force this break. Some of the options that I have thought about: - Talk to her best friend... I know they confide and I know she knows what is going on. If I talk to her and let her know how close we are to divorcing that might help get to my wife through a different route. - Talk to the guy. Politely and cordially I can approach him and explain the situation. I'm sure this would trigger something... not so sure what though. - Talk to her family. I know she respects her father a great deal, and he respects me. Talking to him about the situation might help.
dead-dyke Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Talking w/ her friend, especially if she knew what was going on, and then approaching the home wrecker, may look good on the surface. I agree she hasn't ended the relationship, and likely won't. What it will do is drive her deception deeper, try harder to hide it. One thing I have learned, is I never tell anybody they are a crappy liar, because they only try harder to hide whatever it is they are hiding. Check the marriage builders website, I think they have a plan that you can follow. Plan A or B. You are in need of plan A right now. Her father may help, but again, if she is truly not wanting to part w/ this douche, I mean dude, she will only try harder to hide it and tell you it's done. You're at a very sensitive time right now.
grogster Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Emotional attachments and physical affairs are inappropriate and unacceptable in the conduction of a marriage. This was straight from the lips of our MC. The only way to effectively work in MC is for the attachment/affair to end. If the W isn't willing to do this, MC is a waste of time and money. I'm saying this as the one with the attachment which I had to give up. The shock value of divorce papers will elicit a spontaneous response. Of course, there is a risk. Life is full of risks. Anything is better than what the OP is going through now. Hope it works out! I agree with carhill. Your marriage is too crowded: She craves the attention of two men. It's time for shock therapy. Separate and serve the papers. Regain your life and self-respect even if it means you lose your unfaithful wife.
Dexter Morgan Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 is Divorce the option to get my life under control? No, but its the option I would probably take. The other option? Forgive, live your life out with someone that emotionally betrayed you, and be suspicious of her from time to time. If you can handle not being totally at peace that your wife is more than capable of having an affair on you, then good luck.
carhill Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 OP, you'll note I didn't say divorce her. I said serve her official legal papers indicating your intent. That's pretty serious stuff. It'll get her attention. She's in a fog right now. You won't get her attention with normal channels of communication. Suggest divorce mediation. You might be surprised. If she laughs and says "see ya", you have a healthy answer, one which, in retrospect, you will likely wish you had received earlier in life. I hope things work out for you
2sure Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 It sounds like your marriage may have a good shot at recovery....and getting better too. Just like you said, time and kids can create a disconnect. The disconnect becomes a habit, someone feels unfulfilled/unhappy. Problems ensue. This is not unusual. Your wife has stayed in touch with this guy over the years.Maybe sporadically, like any friend. Probably increased contact with him as your marriage disconnected - liked feeling sexy, attractive, interesting like she did before being a mom. You said yourself you were caught in the disconnect pattern as well. When you found out about this guy and what was happening - you suddenly became VERY INTERESTED. Is it possible your wife sees your recent interest as jealousy (justified!!) and not real interest in her/the marriage? She has to drop this guy, go to MC with you. You have to stop punishing her and yourself and make room for other conversation revolving around the disconnect.
TrustInYourself Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Hah, love this hard advice. Personally, she married you, not this friend. You have the nuts. Play your hand appropriately. Don't show your hand. Don't bluff. Sit her down, tell her, this relationship doesn't threaten me. It threatens her happiness and your family's happiness. If she values that "friend" over her son's happiness and your love, is she really a woman worth fighting for? That's your call, bud. Then again, you could sledgehammer her with divorce papers. That should get the same point across in a more direct manner, less talking, more action, consequences right in her face. Your current course of actions, show weakness and a lack of willpower. You're acting like you are going to lose. How can she respect that, when Mr. Wonderful is sitting back, letting you destroy yourself and your position as her husband. Just chill and strengthen your position by being calm and assertive with what you want. This is going to take some thought and control, but you can get through this.
Author Kingrat Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 Your current course of actions, show weakness and a lack of willpower. You're acting like you are going to lose. How can she respect that, when Mr. Wonderful is sitting back, letting you destroy yourself and your position as her husband. Just chill and strengthen your position by being calm and assertive with what you want. This is going to take some thought and control, but you can get through this. THANKS VERY MUCH. Now a few points. - I stopped my weak behavior a few days ago. I left the "feel sorry phase". Now I'm more in control of myself and I have begun search for lawyers. I'm sleeping better and eating better, I'm excercising everyday and I feel good physically. - I believe that if I keep bringing this "friend" as a topic of conversation I will only hurt our chances. I clearly stated to her what I wanted when we spoke about it almost 2 weeks ago. I will not plead a third time for her to stop it. - When you say "play your hand appropiatedly" are you referring to talking to her one more time? I just do not see what good that would do. She is not dumb. Asking again to cut the "friend" will be seen as insecure and needy.
Author Kingrat Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 It sounds like your marriage may have a good shot at recovery....and getting better too. She has to drop this guy, go to MC with you. I really believe that we have a chance at recovery. But how do I get her to drop this guy so we can engage in fixing our issues with MC??? If she does not do it voluntarily. Other than dropping D papers what reasonable options are there?
carhill Posted December 6, 2008 Posted December 6, 2008 OP, you're trying to rewind a clock that has been unwinding for 16 years. Your W and this man have a firmly entrenched emotional bond and one that has stood the test of time and circumstances. Do you really think there is a quick fix? The realities of being alone and her son being with his father and away from her for significant periods of time are, IMO, about the only bargaining chips which will break the cycle she's in. Once the cycle is broken (presuming she doesn't walk away), then the slow process of rebuilding can begin. It may take years. Do you really want that? Do you love her enough to go through that? Really take a hard look at yourself and what you want in life, not merely with her. I leave you with two thoughts to ponder: 1. You can't make anyone do anything or feel or act in a certain way 2. The person who cares the least has the most control I wish you well
2sure Posted December 6, 2008 Posted December 6, 2008 I really believe that we have a chance at recovery. But how do I get her to drop this guy so we can engage in fixing our issues with MC??? If she does not do it voluntarily. Other than dropping D papers what reasonable options are there? It seems like the circumstances are always a little different, but with infidelity (any kind) one thing stays the same: Until the WS has CONSEQUENCES that affect THEM , not you, there is no change. They have to become the victim of their actions - sadly, until then it just doesnt sink in. And I'm not saying that solves the problems - but stopping the betrayal can give you a window to try. The other posters are right. And so are you. You have told her, point blank - stop or we are done. Don't say it again. I personally, believe the OM should be told to leave your family alone. Leave. And not to your mothers - get a place and see a lawyer. It is hard, it is harsh - but it will be that glass of water in the face she needs.
carhill Posted December 6, 2008 Posted December 6, 2008 I'd take it one step further. Serve her and kick her out and keep your son in the marital home. After all, she's made the choice to breech marital boundaries and has refused to cease her behavior and participate in MC. Gone, gone, gone I would've faced the same thing if I hadn't ended my attachment and entered MC. I had the camper all ready OP, seriously, this is reasonable and healthy for you. Be firm.
imagine Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 Firstly, get a copy of "Surviving an Affair" by Dr Harley. This is the general plan (Called plan A): Collect incriminating info. Expose to everyone without any warning. Confront OM, Inform wife's family and good friends. Ask their help in saving the marriage. Do not act needy. Never sponsor the affair but meet her emotional needs. These are for starters. Oh, and expect only anger from your WW. This will pass. If you don't expose, say goodbye to your marriage.
carhill Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 TBH, the OP's wife has had a R with the friend for 3x the length of the marriage. She likely knew and had an attachment to the friend long before she even met her husband. It's pretty safe to say that people in their lives "know" about them; even if not the true extent of their R. OP, exactly how did you come to learn about this friend and the nature of your W's involvement with him? If your W is emotionally detached from you and is a branch-type personality (grasps another branch before letting go of yours), I'm sorry to say that I don't hold out much hope here. The main factor in your favor, in that case, IMO, is the description you provide of the "friend" being a player. He might abandon her once she becomes truly available and she may swing back to you. OTOH, if she's a more independent-minded person, there may be a chance for finding a new and different marital dynamic which is healthy. You know her best. I can't speak for her personality type, as I don't know her, but I do know for myself I had to come to the realizations on my own. This is where our MC played a pivotal role in his total avoidance of active discussions of what he termed "inappropriate emotional attachments". By not forcing the issue and working on the positive aspects of the M, even with the obvious negatives, I came to see the unhealthiness of the attachment as it existed. Forcing things, with my personality type, would have only led to disconnection (by myself of all involved parties). I'm very good at disconnecting people, a relatively uncommon trait for a social being. This is why I said you know your W best. Your work should be tailored to her specific personality, assuming you wish to save/rebuild your M. Lastly, take a hard look inward and decide if and how much you're willing to work on yourself. You share responsibility for the current state of your M, absent her EA, and have your own work to do and growth to effect. Are you up to that mirror?
Owl Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 OK, you set a "boundary"...he needs to be out of her life completely. Good...that's exactly what you SHOULD be doing... But...what are the "teeth" in your boundary? What are you going to do if she doesn't follow thru? This is critical. Here's the thing...she hasn't changed, because there's nothing FORCING a change. She's not suffering any consequences for her poor behavior, or being rewarded for her good behavior. It's sad, but it's that simple. You need to make continuing her emotional affair with this guy more painful than NOT doing so. What 'consequences' does she face if she keeps up contact with him? Is she aware of them? Are you truly willing to enforce them? Does she know that as well?
TrustInYourself Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 THANKS VERY MUCH. Now a few points. - I stopped my weak behavior a few days ago. I left the "feel sorry phase". Now I'm more in control of myself and I have begun search for lawyers. I'm sleeping better and eating better, I'm excercising everyday and I feel good physically. - I believe that if I keep bringing this "friend" as a topic of conversation I will only hurt our chances. I clearly stated to her what I wanted when we spoke about it almost 2 weeks ago. I will not plead a third time for her to stop it. - When you say "play your hand appropiatedly" are you referring to talking to her one more time? I just do not see what good that would do. She is not dumb. Asking again to cut the "friend" will be seen as insecure and needy. Play your hand appropriately means, stop playing victim. You have the cards to win. Set her up to realize the consequences of her actions in a gentle, loving way. Don't sugarcoat, but don't be an a-hole either. Yeah, she knows what you want. She knows what she wants, or thinks she knows. That may not be you, so you have to establish consequences for her actions and for you. Perhaps, those consequences hurt both of you, but you do not have control over that. She made this decision, now you must rationally act for the sake of your happiness and the happiness of your children.
Dexter Morgan Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 THANKS VERY MUCH. Now a few points. - I stopped my weak behavior a few days ago. I left the "feel sorry phase". Now I'm more in control of myself and I have begun search for lawyers. I'm sleeping better and eating better, I'm excercising everyday and I feel good physically. - I believe that if I keep bringing this "friend" as a topic of conversation I will only hurt our chances. What hurt your chances of a marriage is her and her relationship with this "friend", not you mentioning it. here is the thing, you are willing to forgive her for her betrayal. But if she is the type that wouldn't want to be understanding of your feelings and realizing that you can't just "get over it", then what does that say? That you were willing to forgive her for a major incident, but she can't forgive you for feeling the way you do about it? Anyone that has cheated on a SO or spouse should realize that they shouldn't get off easy and that, if the betrayed decides to forgive, it is going to take time. Can a cheater out there tell me, what is it about you people that expect your betrayed "loved one" to get over it so quickly when they were willing to forgive you in the first place?
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