Anyone leave for the OW?

[frannie]

I read your other thread and am so sorry to hear that you are suffering now.

 

I understand that for me, for my OW, and for most people in my situation, how the marriage ends matters. I don't know whether it would have mattered for you since it sounds like you had not reached a place where you felt you no longer loved your wife and that the marriage, regardless of the OW, was unsalvagable. I am at that place, but I know that if my W found out that I'm cheating on her and left me, it would likely ruin any chance that I would have of being happy with OW. And that's assuming OW would have me if my W ended it instead of me ending it, which I seriously doubt. If my W found out in any way other than from me, I would feel too guilty to enjoy my new life once I got it. If W ended the marriage, OW would not have me. I would feel like the coward I have been, and I would deserve to lose everything. I have behaved badly and I need to end the marriage in a way I can be proud of. I don't mean to suggest it's admirable to leave one's W for an OW. But I do think there is an honest, admirable way to do it and a cowardly, shameful way to do it.

 

If anything, your story has helped sound the alarm about waiting too long. Every day that I don't suck it up and end my marriage is another day that I risk having that choice taken from me. I know that isn't the warning you meant to send, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

 

WaW, I see you've had a couple of more negative responses to this post, but I wanted to say PHEW, a man who gets it. I don't know if it's your OW who has said this to you, or you worked it out yourself, but yes, it's spot on.

 

I don't know what it takes for the MM to get that extra bit of courage, but I think OWoman is right, you just have to DO IT. Waiting for the perfect moment .... it's never going to happen.

[WickedandWeak]

WaW, I see you've had a couple of more negative responses to this post, but I wanted to say PHEW, a man who gets it. I don't know if it's your OW who has said this to you, or you worked it out yourself, but yes, it's spot on.

 

I don't know what it takes for the MM to get that extra bit of courage, but I think OWoman is right, you just have to DO IT. Waiting for the perfect moment .... it's never going to happen.

 

I admit, my OW said it to me many times and while I heard her, it was the sort of thing I had to "realize" for myself before I really internalized it.

 

I am done making timing excuses and I know there is a never a right time to do this. There's probably not even a less bad time. My OW actually suggested I have the conversation on a day when W and I are getting along so that it won't be dismissed as something I said in anger or because it was a "bad day." Every day I wake up and hope this is the day. That sounds stupid since it's my decision. It's true anyway - every day I hope it's the day I find the courage to grow up and leave my W.

[blueintheface]

divorce your wife. dont drag this out. you've already exited from the marriage so why pretend to go through the motions.

 

ask yourself this, if it doesnt work out with OW would you still want to stay with your wife?

 

btw, your story makes me - you tried everything before to improve your relationship with wife & nothing worked? then several years later she suddenly becomes attracted to you again? hmmmm....

[OWoman]

btw, your story makes me - you tried everything before to improve your relationship with wife & nothing worked? then several years later she suddenly becomes attracted to you again? hmmmm....

 

BITF you're suggesting W&W should have gotten an OW years back and checked out of the M then, or at least pretended to, to get his W's interest back at the point where he might still have wanted to make a go of it?

[Owl]

I admit, my OW said it to me many times and while I heard her, it was the sort of thing I had to "realize" for myself before I really internalized it.

 

I am done making timing excuses and I know there is a never a right time to do this. There's probably not even a less bad time. My OW actually suggested I have the conversation on a day when W and I are getting along so that it won't be dismissed as something I said in anger or because it was a "bad day." Every day I wake up and hope this is the day. That sounds stupid since it's my decision. It's true anyway - every day I hope it's the day I find the courage to grow up and leave my W.

 

So does this mean you're going to go tell your wife the truth today?

[travelgirl]

My OW actually suggested I have the conversation on a day when W and I are getting along so that it won't be dismissed as something I said in anger or because it was a "bad day." Every day I wake up and hope this is the day. That sounds stupid since it's my decision. It's true anyway - every day I hope it's the day I find the courage to grow up and leave my W.

 

This is so pathetic. You are letting your OW give you advice on how to leave your wife and family. First, it shouldn't be any of her business and really makes me sick that not only do you cheat on your W but that your OW has to plan YOUR exit strategy. Problem is, you just can't get yourself to do it. If someone is 100% sure what they want, nothing would hold them back and they certainly wouldn't need advice from a 3rd party about how to get it. They wouldn't need to come to this forum daily and post "everyday I wake up and hope today is the day" but then do nothing but continue to check everyone's responses to your situation and then follow up with a retort of the "my situation is different" when really you aren't doing anything but stringing 2 women along - which is what an ACTIVE cheater does. I don't care if you and OW only talk professionally at work right now (which I don't believe) or that you and W are over in your eyes. You are still doing all of this wrong and have no morals or a backbone to follow thru. You push your side of the story so much on here without taking any forward action. What are you expecting us to say at this point? What is your point of coming here and retorting to everyone's responses?

 

It makes me really wonder what the REAL issue is here??? I feel like you are not being honest with yourself.

[81West]

I work with a man in his early 30's who I've known through work for over a decade. He's the kind of guy everybody likes and truly admires. Smart, funny, kind, principled, highly competent, and a natural leader. He married his highschool sweetheart several years ago, and I cried at their wedding.

 

Less than two years later he was agressively targeted romantically by a new girl in our department who was at the end of her own failing marriage. We gossiped as their affair became increasingly difficult to deny, and some of us felt weirdly personally betrayed and let down because we had thought so highly of him. When he left his wife for her I found it hard to look at him for a long time - months if not years.

 

He has since had his first child with the woman he left his wife for, and they are happy. It took me a long time to come to grips with this truth: he is still smart, funny, kind, principled, highly competent, and a natural leader. He knew what was right for his own life, and through the courage of action over inaction and holding his head high throughout everybody else eventually 'got over it' and realized it was never our right to judge in the first place.

 

The courage of ones convictions is a formidable force. If this is the right thing for your life and you proceed with integrity, faith in your decision and patience, those who care about your happiness will eventually come around.

[NoIDidn't]

This is so pathetic. You are letting your OW give you advice on how to leave your wife and family. First, it shouldn't be any of her business and really makes me sick that not only do you cheat on your W but that your OW has to plan YOUR exit strategy. Problem is, you just can't get yourself to do it. If someone is 100% sure what they want, nothing would hold them back and they certainly wouldn't need advice from a 3rd party about how to get it. They wouldn't need to come to this forum daily and post "everyday I wake up and hope today is the day" but then do nothing but continue to check everyone's responses to your situation and then follow up with a retort of the "my situation is different" when really you aren't doing anything but stringing 2 women along - which is what an ACTIVE cheater does. I don't care if you and OW only talk professionally at work right now (which I don't believe) or that you and W are over in your eyes. You are still doing all of this wrong and have no morals or a backbone to follow thru. You push your side of the story so much on here without taking any forward action. What are you expecting us to say at this point? What is your point of coming here and retorting to everyone's responses?

 

It makes me really wonder what the REAL issue is here??? I feel like you are not being honest with yourself.

 

travelgrl, you seem surprised to hear that he is making these plans with his OW about his M. Don't be. That's how things go in affairs. Look at the OW/OM forum where most of the questions are about the relationship that they aren't even in: the marriage.

 

It lays bare the lie that the affair has nothing to do with the marriage as is always touted by the OPs. The affair has EVERYTHING to do with the marriage - or it wouldn't be an affair IMO.

[Reggie]

BITF you're suggesting W&W should have gotten an OW years back and checked out of the M then, or at least pretended to, to get his W's interest back at the point where he might still have wanted to make a go of it?

 

Where'd you come up with that twisted interpretation?

[Reggie]

I work with a man in his early 30's who I've known through work for over a decade. He's the kind of guy everybody likes and truly admires. Smart, funny, kind, principled, highly competent, and a natural leader. He married his highschool sweetheart several years ago, and I cried at their wedding.

 

Less than two years later he was agressively targeted romantically by a new girl in our department who was at the end of her own failing marriage. We gossiped as their affair became increasingly difficult to deny, and some of us felt weirdly personally betrayed and let down because we had thought so highly of him. When he left his wife for her I found it hard to look at him for a long time - months if not years.

 

He has since had his first child with the woman he left his wife for, and they are happy. It took me a long time to come to grips with this truth: he is still smart, funny, kind, principled, highly competent, and a natural leader. He knew what was right for his own life, and through the courage of action over inaction and holding his head high throughout everybody else eventually 'got over it' and realized it was never our right to judge in the first place.

 

The courage of ones convictions is a formidable force. If this is the right thing for your life and you proceed with integrity, faith in your decision and patience, those who care about your happiness will eventually come around.

If he had an affair, you have prime facie evidence that his "convictions" are not very deep seated,if he has them at all. Same with the courage thing. He had many honorable options. Our actions do define us.

[Dexter Morgan]

~SHEESH!

 

Tell your OW to post in the OW Forum, I'll give her some advice.

 

Like MAKING the decision for you.

 

I'm sure that this will come as quite a shock to you, but YOU are not the prize.

 

Neither is the she.

[frannie]

I admit, my OW said it to me many times and while I heard her, it was the sort of thing I had to "realize" for myself before I really internalized it.

 

I am done making timing excuses and I know there is a never a right time to do this. There's probably not even a less bad time. My OW actually suggested I have the conversation on a day when W and I are getting along so that it won't be dismissed as something I said in anger or because it was a "bad day." Every day I wake up and hope this is the day. That sounds stupid since it's my decision. It's true anyway - every day I hope it's the day I find the courage to grow up and leave my W.

 

Yeah I thought it sounded like something I'd say, which is why I asked.

 

You know you're never going to wake up one day with the courage to do it. What's that quote about you find the courage when you actually act? The courage doesn't come first. You will have to face the fear while you're still afraid... it's doing it that takes away the fear.

 

I notice you still haven't had any advice on how to approach the whole thing. What is it that's exactly bothering you. I mean, what are you afraid of? Your W's emotions? Making a mistake? Afraid that you'll feel guilty afterwards?

[WickedandWeak]

Yeah I thought it sounded like something I'd say, which is why I asked.

 

You know you're never going to wake up one day with the courage to do it. What's that quote about you find the courage when you actually act? The courage doesn't come first. You will have to face the fear while you're still afraid... it's doing it that takes away the fear.

 

I notice you still haven't had any advice on how to approach the whole thing. What is it that's exactly bothering you. I mean, what are you afraid of? Your W's emotions? Making a mistake? Afraid that you'll feel guilty afterwards?

 

I am afraid of seeing the pain I have caused. I am especially afraid that seeing that pain will cause me to feel guilty in a way that will interfere with my relationship with OW. I know that I have to be honest, but I don't know how much information to give. W knows about OW but doesn't know I've started seeing her again and I'm not sure I was ever completely honest before about the nature of my feelings for OW. I always thought that being candid about falling in love with someone else would be cruel. So I'm torn between not wanting to do what feels to me to be cruel and inflict unneccesary pain and the need to be honest and forthcoming enough to feel good about myself. I feel like we've already talked to death all the problems in the M, and I think she knows that those problems aren't going to go away. Still, when I say what I want is a divorce, there will be a big push to know why, to keep trying just a little longer, to know that the urgency is. I've never been good at ending a conversation, so the idea of, at some point, just saying that I've made my decision and that I'm going to begin carrying it out is petrifying to me. I feel like I owe it to her to let her say to me whatever she wants, to vent completely, and to answer all her questions. In the past, this has turned into a days' long marathon of crying, screaming, and arguing. If I have to go through that, I am afraid I will feel like a jerk and that the guilt will ruin what I have with OW.

 

I also know this is my last chance with OW. If I don't do this right, I will hurt OW and lose her forever. She's been so patient and amazing and she deserves to get my "all" and for it not to be tainted by the end of my M.

 

I guess what I want is a miracle formula for minimizing the pain and maximizing the chance that we can all three move on and find happiness.

[Owl]

What you're looking for is a unicorn.

 

There is no magic spell that's going to let this end with everyone happy.

 

My wife sought the same thing in her affair...once it was over, she looked back and realized how impossible her expectations were.

 

I'd tell you this point blank...you WILL end up hurting someone. Probably multiple someones.

 

It was unavoidable from the moment you started the affair.

 

So all you can do is what makes the most sense.

 

Either end it with your wife, and watch her hurt...or end it with OW and watch her hurt.

 

Regardless...you'll end up hurting either way too.

[RobertLS]

You can never go wrong with honesty. I think you should be completely honest with your wife and let the cards fall however they may. At least then you'll eventually find peace with yourself.

 

Think of this: suppose you went through lengthy divorce discussions with your wife, left out the fact that you're seeing OW again, and finally decided jointly to divorce. You'd be haunted by the fact that you were never honest with your wife. You can either be honest with her, and risk feeling guilty over the pain you caused her, or you can continue deceiving her and feel guilty over the fact that you weren't honest with her. Either way, you're likely to end up with guilty feelings that could affect a future relationship with OW.

 

And even if you don't tell your wife about OW, get divorced, and fire up a relationship with OW, your wife is sure to find out eventually, and then you'll have more guilt to deal with.

 

The miracle formula is no miracle. The answer is honesty. The truth may hurt, but you can't go wrong with it.

 

Your situation reminds me of when I was a kid wanting to jump off the high dive for the first time. No matter how long I stood there looking down at the pool, it didn't get any easier. I think the same thing in your case; waiting isn't going to make it any easier. Jump now. Get the ball rolling. Stop wasting time, your's, your wife's, OW's. No matter what you decide to do, there will be emotional pain. Get moving now so the pain and subsequent healing can begin. It's all up to you.

[Cliche]

Still, when I say what I want is a divorce, there will be a big push to know why, to keep trying just a little longer, to know that the urgency is.

Why are you putting OW in this? It is my understanding, based on your posts, that you want a divorce because you are sure your marriage just isn't working for you. You've said it over and over again. So why do you have to make this about your relationship with the OW. Wife asks why? You tell her the truth: after years together and counseling and trying to make things work, the marriage is still not fulfilling for you and you want a new direction in life. Don't blame your wife. Don't blame your OW. Make this about who it is about: YOU.

 

If she asks if you have a girlfriend then sure, be honest with her, but don't tell her that is the reason when it isn't.

 

 

 

I want to be clear: I would have completely different advice for you if I got the impression you weren't sure whether or not you wanted to end your marriage. I don't get from you that is the case. It sounds like you feel done with the M, but stuck in some kind of inertia. My mom always said "If you keep doing what you've done, you'll only have what you've had."

[Reggie]

I agree, end it now and stop the theft of your wife's time. And, tell her the truth about the affair, unsolicited. She needs to be tested for STD's and she has the right to know what her reality was.

[frannie]

I am afraid of seeing the pain I have caused. I am especially afraid that seeing that pain will cause me to feel guilty in a way that will interfere with my relationship with OW.

 

I agree with Cliche that you must avoid seeing your OW as the 'reason' you're ending your marriage. I know that the fear of losing OW is playing into the timescale of this, and that's probably where your fear of misplacing this guilt is coming from. But you seem like an intelligent bloke who is more than capable of picking apart these things for yourself, so why not give yourself credit that you won't blame your OW, and won't let this interfere with any future relationship you might have with her?

 

... I'm torn between not wanting to do what feels to me to be cruel and inflict unneccesary pain and the need to be honest and forthcoming enough to feel good about myself.

 

Here I agree with RobertLS, who talks about the necessity for honesty, and the fact that you can't go wrong when you're honest with people. It is NOT being 'kind' to your W to keep these things from her. It's really not. It only seems that way because you're not faced with her emotional reaction to what she doesn't (yet) know.

 

... when I say what I want is a divorce, there will be a big push to know why, to keep trying just a little longer, to know that the urgency is. I've never been good at ending a conversation, so the idea of, at some point, just saying that I've made my decision and that I'm going to begin carrying it out is petrifying to me.

 

I can see how this might be the hardest part for you. But WaW, you have a right to say 'I've had enough', and make that decision and carry it through. Perhaps you could ask yourself why you feel you don't have a right to say 'enough'?

 

I guess what I want is a miracle formula for minimizing the pain and maximizing the chance that we can all three move on and find happiness.

 

If you look at this another way, what you're trying to do is control the situation and everyone's reactions to it. You can't do that, its just not possible, and neither should you try. You don't have that right to control everyone - which is the other side of trying to 'protect' them from reality. What you end up doing to them is far worse (cheating, if only in your heart) than the pain of telling someone the relationship is over. Trying to protect people from pain by lying to them is just not fair, and they would not appreciate it if they knew.

 

Are any of these posts helping at all?

[marazul]

Weak guy, I'm going to solve your problem. You are your own enemy. You're the one that makes it soooo difficult. I was half way to your first post and realised what you should do. It seems you're a good man, go wonder the exact reason why your wife lost interest in you, maybe you didn't make love to her properly... I mean was it really her fault? The point is that it does not work, you don't love her and it seems you know that it will not work anymore. Soooo, stop doubting about yourself and feel sooo insecure and weak, and that guilty. Be a little selfish, nobody else is living your life but you and let them live their lives. You are not the first person things like this happen. Life is complicated, don't make it more complicated. Simplify things or you drive yourself crazy, no more thinking is allowed, NOW YOU HAVE TO ACT NOW.

 

Give yourself an opportunity to find happiness and fulfillment with OW. YOU must find strength and sit and talk to your wife NOW, right now, that you want out. Let her yell and scream and insult you but what you say to her has to be real clear. You cannot expect that she won't hurt, forget that, she will hurt and she must find a way to deal with that reality. Under no circumstances you should reveal to your W that there's another woman. She should NEVER find it out. You don't even need to give her a reason for the divorce, nobody belongs to nobody. You can state the obvious that "it doesn't work" or something that she knows. Do not mention ever the OW. The reason is that you're going to hurt her with the divorce, isn't that enough hurt? On top of that you want to tell her that you leave her for another woman?? That is really having no heart if you tell her. Not wanting to be w/her and not wanting to be w/her because you prefer someone else are two very different reaSONS that have very different effects. The OW is your own very personal reason, there's no need to tell your future ex-wife everything.

 

Good luck and I hope I hear from you in next post that you've done it. Nobody else but YOU can do this.

[Angel1111]

I wouldn't ever dump anyone during the holidays unless they were really begging for it. I think doing this now would be plain crappy. Go through the motions for another month or so and then drop the bomb.

 

When I divorced my first husband, it was a living hell. Particularly with my family because of their strict religious beliefs. Now that was tough. But I finally realized that I could spend my whole live living it for other people, trying to do what they wanted me to do, but they didn't actually have to walk in my shoes, did they? So, easy for them to judge. I figured they'd be all wound up at first and then they'd get over it. And that's exactly what happened. Your wife will be all wound up at first, too, but then she'll get over it and move on. People are resilient and she'll soon figure out that you gave her a gift. You need to see the big picture instead of focusing on the immediate reaction. Your wife really can't be shocked by any of this anyway so I doubt it'll be as earthshattering as you're thinking it will be. And if it is, it'll pass and everyone will be fine. Happens every time.

[NoIDidn't]

The courage of ones convictions is a formidable force. If this is the right thing for your life and you proceed with integrity, faith in your decision and patience, those who care about your happiness will eventually come around.

 

How exactly did this guy proceed with dignity? Just because he married his affair partner and they started a family? Somehow, I doubt that's how his first W saw things. She may have moved on and worked through her pain enough to forgive him. But I doubt she feels his actions had an ounce of integrity in them.

 

WaW had the chance to end this with integrity in the therapists office. But he chose to throw away that chance to sneak around in avoidance of facing up to the hurt his actions HAVE ALREADY caused.

[frannie]

YOU must find strength and sit and talk to your wife NOW, right now, that you want out. Let her yell and scream and insult you but what you say to her has to be real clear. You cannot expect that she won't hurt, forget that, she will hurt and she must find a way to deal with that reality. Under no circumstances you should reveal to your W that there's another woman. She should NEVER find it out. You don't even need to give her a reason for the divorce, nobody belongs to nobody. You can state the obvious that "it doesn't work" or something that she knows. Do not mention ever the OW. The reason is that you're going to hurt her with the divorce, isn't that enough hurt? On top of that you want to tell her that you leave her for another woman??

 

The problem with that is, the W already found out, he already left once and went back because of the guilt:

 

When my wife found out, I left for the OW. But within a couple of weeks, I started to feel really guilty. I ended up really hurting the OW because I couldn't get a grip on my own feelings and because I eventually decided the only solution was to go back to my wife who, in spite of everything, continued to beg me to go to marriage counseling and make our relationship work. Once I went back to my wife, the OW and I did not talk to each other. My wife and I went to marriage counseling. I have never been more miserable.

[81West]

How exactly did this guy proceed with dignity? Just because he married his affair partner and they started a family? Somehow' date=' I doubt that's how his first W saw things. She may have moved on and worked through her pain enough to forgive him. But I doubt she feels his actions had an ounce of integrity in them.[/quote']

 

You have no idea if his first wife was in pain, or if she herself kept her marriage vows. You have no idea if the marriage was a healthy place for anyone to be. That the point: people who make decisions about their own lives are accountable only to their own circle and not to people like you or I. Sometimes the affair is the right relationship and the marriage is the wrong one. In these cases, decisive and clear action is indeed dignity, courage and integrity. Like it or not.

[Wicked Smile]

I agree that it seems like you are caught up not in love but infactuation. Rather than reconnect and rekindle the love you once had for your wife you stagnated and festered over this OW. What's worse is I feel that once this OW has you all to herself, she will eventually move on leaving you since the "fun and dirtiness" of it all has worn away. Right now there is a risk factor. Take that away all you have is a man who tanked his marriage pining over a midlife crisis woman.

 

I understand breaking the infactuation is like asking a crack head to give up crack once you are in the middle of it but it can be done and should be done. Were you always stuck in a loveless marriage? Once there had to be a spark, hopefully a raging fire that existed between you and your wife.

 

I hear a lot of how men fail to appreciate their wives and their spouse's needs but it seems as if your needs were neglected here as well, hence why this OW snuck in and took over. She showed you interest. She probably talks about things that interest you like you used to have early on in your marriage. She probably has a sexual interest in you and goes the extra mile to show you how much she wants you.

 

I really hope you are able to break this thing off with the OW and truly work things out with your wife. Every minute you stray is another plank set a fire on the bridge you have with your wife. It won't be long til that bridge is burned up. Even though you strayed it's obvious your wife wants to work things out. Let her know how important it is to you to be wanted. Not just as an ATM or venting platform but as a lover, a man, a best friend. And give your wife the favor of returning those same needs. As I am sure she has them as well.

[WickedandWeak]

I know this doesn't seem like much, but I finally told someone the truth about my M, my OW, and what I want to do. I feel so GOOD about it! I told my brother everything even though I was afraid of what he'd think. And actually...he was very supportive! For the first time, I really do see some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I also really want to thank everyone for the input. It helps sometimes to hear what you already know when it comes from someone else, to know other people have been in the same boat, and even to hear the people who think you are an idiot. There's no better way to be sure of what you want than to have it challenged.