Guys, honestly, if a girl smiled and made clear eye contact, what are the chances...

[carhill]

Women are always asking me why I feel the produce (in the store)

[Isolde]

Women are always asking me why I feel the produce (in the store)

 

You're hilarious.

[Isolde]

I think I get it, guys.

 

I think I understand why I'm having such bad luck with this "randomly talking to men thing."

 

Men intimidate me as much as they did when I was an awkward high schooler. I'm too shy. It's not even a fear of rejection so much as the fact that I innerly clam up whenever I envision talking to a cute guy. It's this whole thing looming over me and putting pressure on me. No wonder...

[Isolde]

I think I just feel like guys don't expect me to pay attention to them and when I do, they're either COMPLETELY not interested or they're so surprised they don't know what to say.

[kashmir]

Isolde, from reading your posts, you give me hope, and hopefully I can give you hope. You show me that some girls out there might actually give a damn, that some girls might actually like a decent guy coming up and saying hi to them in public. I always think that girls are too busy to care about guys or already have enough guy attention through their friends and other ways. If I saw you somewhere and you gave me a look and smile, I'd approach if I found some degree of attraction in you.

[Isolde]

Isolde, from reading your posts, you give me hope, and hopefully I can give you hope. You show me that some girls out there might actually give a damn, that some girls might actually like a decent guy coming up and saying hi to them in public. I always think that girls are too busy to care about guys or already have enough guy attention through their friends and other ways. If I saw you somewhere and you gave me a look and smile, I'd approach if I found some degree of attraction in you.

 

Thanks, I'm glad to hear I've convinced you not all girls are bloodsucking vampires

 

So I have been experimenting with this looking at guys briefly and smiling thing, and I've noticed a bit of a pattern. Of the guys that smile back:

 

the older guys (30+) look at me directly and smile wider.

the younger guys (more my age, more in my dating pool) shyly avert their glance after a moment or two. I saw a real cutie today and as soon as I glanced at him, he sorta half smiled and cast his head down.

 

This is frustrating.

[kashmir]

I've heard women say before, "There's no such thing as a shy attractive guy." That. Is. So. Wrong. They think that every attractive guy out there is going to be outgoing because he's attractive, thus when he doesn't give an obvious sign like giving a long look and big smile, they think he's not attracted and don't bother looking again. It's hard for a guy give a girl a long look because she most likely is going to look away whether she's attracted or not, and you don't want to go around staring at girls like a creeper. So both the guy and the girl go into a cycle of looking and then looking away, and neither of them knows how to end that cycle and break the ice.

[carhill]

Some men, just like some women, aren't globally aware of their attractiveness. Or, they might think they are attractive, but focus outward in public and forget that self-image.

 

I've found the key, for me, is focusing my thoughts and emotions outside of myself, almost as a projection of my spiritual center. Perhaps that's what is meant by the term "outgoing". I was always shy when I was young, or so I thought, but realized later that there were a whole bunch of people just like myself (not really shy, but not really outgoing); as with most things in life, we are rarely alone

[Isolde]

Some men, just like some women, aren't globally aware of their attractiveness. Or, they might think they are attractive, but focus outward in public and forget that self-image.

 

I've found the key, for me, is focusing my thoughts and emotions outside of myself, almost as a projection of my spiritual center. Perhaps that's what is meant by the term "outgoing". I was always shy when I was young, or so I thought, but realized later that there were a whole bunch of people just like myself (not really shy, but not really outgoing); as with most things in life, we are rarely alone

 

Carhill, can you put this in simpler terms for me? I'm a bit thick you know

 

My guess is that you're saying that some people aren't really aware of themselves in public but that doesn't necessarily mean they're shy? Not sure how this relates to my post...

[carhill]

I'll try...it's about those signals (etherial hooha I'm always mentioning) we send out...

 

Let's say I see a lady who stands out in a crowd. For me, that has nothing to do with her appearance. It's more signals I'm receiving from her. She seems friendly (my perception of her behavior). I'm not yet on her radar (I presume). So, my thoughts are outside myself and my self-awareness lowers and is replaced by a heightened awareness of her. I might make a friendly comment or try to catch her eye. I've invested some thought and energy here and there's a bit of my stuff hanging out there. Remember, this all happens mostly unconsciously and in a matter of seconds. If she responds, like if she looks me in the eye and/or speaks, that stimulus causes the energy to rebound back within me and I'm suddenly self-conscious, thinking about how I might appear/sound/feel to her. The energy is suddenly back inside me. It sometimes causes momentary overload and I might seem frozen. After I recover, I wonder if she sensed or saw that mess

 

Remember, this is hypothetical, but just imagine if it were you I saw on the street. Can you imagine how such an interaction would go for you? Obviously, it would likely be different, but, IMO, the key is understanding and being comfortable with the process. I didn't used to be comfortable with it, so came off as shy/reserved, even though many people (women) say I'm friendly and a bit of a flirt. There was a disparity between how I appeared outwardly and how the inside "appeared" within my psyche. Today, much older, those two match a lot better.

 

Hope that helps. Wore my fingers to the bone

[Isolde]

I'll try...it's about those signals (etherial hooha I'm always mentioning) we send out...

 

Let's say I see a lady who stands out in a crowd. For me, that has nothing to do with her appearance. It's more signals I'm receiving from her. She seems friendly (my perception of her behavior). I'm not yet on her radar (I presume). So, my thoughts are outside myself and my self-awareness lowers and is replaced by a heightened awareness of her. I might make a friendly comment or try to catch her eye. I've invested some thought and energy here and there's a bit of my stuff hanging out there. Remember, this all happens mostly unconsciously and in a matter of seconds. If she responds, like if she looks me in the eye and/or speaks, that stimulus causes the energy to rebound back within me and I'm suddenly self-conscious, thinking about how I might appear/sound/feel to her. The energy is suddenly back inside me. It sometimes causes momentary overload and I might seem frozen. After I recover, I wonder if she sensed or saw that mess

 

Remember, this is hypothetical, but just imagine if it were you I saw on the street. Can you imagine how such an interaction would go for you? Obviously, it would likely be different, but, IMO, the key is understanding and being comfortable with the process. I didn't used to be comfortable with it, so came off as shy/reserved, even though many people (women) say I'm friendly and a bit of a flirt. There was a disparity between how I appeared outwardly and how the inside "appeared" within my psyche. Today, much older, those two match a lot better.

 

Hope that helps. Wore my fingers to the bone

 

I get it now.

 

I think this explains why in order to start a conversation it's much better to be in a situation where you have some time around the other person, so that both can recover from that sense of frozenness

[CommitmentPhobe]

It depends what mood I'm in, whether I'm preoccupied, what vibe I get and whether I can be bothered. I'm not generally 24/7 on the hunt for a member of the opposite sex so I don't notice half the time. If it feels like an natural thing to do to talk to someone in a given situation I'll do it.

[Isolde]

I'm not generally 24/7 on the hunt for a member of the opposite sex

 

Really? You differ from the majority of those on LS I'd say

 

I'm not looking for a man 24/7, I just enjoy smiling at cute guys I pass by, esp. in settings where there are many people my age. It never hurts to be observant and friendly.

[CommitmentPhobe]

Really? You differ from the majority of those on LS I'd say

 

I'm not looking for a man 24/7, I just enjoy smiling at cute guys I pass by, esp. in settings where there are many people my age. It never hurts to be observant and friendly.

 

Yeah but the thing is I get this all the time and about 99% of the time I don't return it because my head is somewhere else. I actually feel quite bad about it but my head just doesn't exist in that space.

 

If it happens at a party or close proximity i might talk to someone, but generally in the street my reactions are so slow that I just don't try anymore.

[Isolde]

I mean, I'm not really looking to meet someone on the street. That is an unrealistic setting. It's just very interesting to see who smiles back and who doesn't.

 

I used to be like you, not noticing or caring, but then I realized that being more observant and "present" outside of myself is something I need to practice, so why not on the street?

[CommitmentPhobe]

I mean, I'm not really looking to meet someone on the street. That is an unrealistic setting. It's just very interesting to see who smiles back and who doesn't.

 

I used to be like you, not noticing or caring, but then I realized that being more observant and "present" outside of myself is something I need to practice, so why not on the street?

 

I'm fine with being observant and present outside of myself, I just don't do it on the street because in London you'll drive yourself nuts if you do that.