wildsoul Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Also, I'm sorry as I am brand new on this site, I may be a little slow in responding as I am still trying to familarise myself with the "mechanics" of using this site as quickly as possible ... thanks for your patience and understanding! You're doing great! One mechanical tip for you, so we can better follow who you're responding to: Select the "quote" button to the post you want to respond to.Delete all but the relevent parts of the other person's post.Type in your reply underneath.It's a good group here. Glad you're finding it useful, too!
Author Married One Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 THANK YOU, I don't mind any "Dr. Phil", I am instead grateful in fact! What you are saying is EXACTLY right, and is what I know exactly, even before. However, you might appreciate, imagining yourself in my place, it's all easier said than done. By saying that, I'm NOT saying I am not trying. The hardest part now is the courage and the stamina/strength to be able to leave the marriage. And now, there is an additional "difficult" part, now that I have fallen in love with this man (who, incidentally, has his own baggage/obstacles, sadly, in some ways). But hey, I am very, very grateful for the few of you who are keeping me in perspective with your posting(s). I intend to come back to you all now and then, and hopefully, you can be what keeps me strong. (You might understand, in my situation, it is quite a lonely place. It's not even something you can freely share with your family or good friends). I hate to go all dr phil on you, but you have a responsibility here that's beyond yourself. it's to your daughters. can you seriously say that if you divorce and you and this bloke end up together you think your daughters will be happy to have a replacement father figure in their lives so soon? your daughters will be finding it difficult enough to cope if you divroce as at is, let alone having to deal with someone new in their lives. do you want your daughters to end up resenting you? do not stay in this marriage. do not get divorced because you want to be with this other man. you should only get divorced because your relationship with your husband has irrevocably broken down. the decision should be made independent of the possibilities in the wings with any third parties.
Author Married One Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 Thank you, Wildsoul, for your tip! I really feel so "loved" since logging on! It's especially helpful when I am where I am at this stage in my life - I actually feel quite lonely at times. It can be sad, for at times I feel VERY lucky I could've found this new man, (who says I am what he's been waiting for). But I hope it is obvious and inevitable, under the circumstances, esp. when he is going through his own separation, I am left very much alone. (If you read my reply to another person in my postings, you would see I gave a similar explanation as to why and how you are all so helpful to me at this stage in my life). Question again about mechanics : HOW do I know if I have already sent a reply to a certain posting? Please understand, it is quite overwhelming when you are in this state, and you are trying to grasp all the input and output, then new (helpful) souls appear, and some even condemn your actions at times (which I don't for a minute regret, as again, it helps me to come back with life's perspective). By the way, sorry, and to prove how overwhelmed I had been with my new discovery of this site, I had ended logging off without saying goodbye last night. I was so tired ... you might know, I am writing from UK (at least 5 hours ahead of you, in differnt parts of U.S. most of you who wrote to me?) I am grateful anyway even if I see replies from you all at other times, such as now - daytime. (I do a bit of work from home now, but of course, having taken time off to be a fulltime mum, that's not exactly so successful yet, especially in this economy doom...). You're doing great! One mechanical tip for you, so we can better follow who you're responding to: Select the "quote" button to the post you want to respond to.Delete all but the relevent parts of the other person's post.Type in your reply underneath.It's a good group here. Glad you're finding it useful, too!
Author Married One Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 Also, it's hard even to know which is a new posting coming in, and which is my new posting etc. ...things are not really highlighted, or printed in bold when new here?? You must be sleeping at this time now .... You're doing great! One mechanical tip for you, so we can better follow who you're responding to: Select the "quote" button to the post you want to respond to.Delete all but the relevent parts of the other person's post.Type in your reply underneath.It's a good group here. Glad you're finding it useful, too!
Author Married One Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 Hi, thanks for your message. I am OK even if you ARE against me. As i keep saying, I guess, that's why this forum is good, it helps people/me put things into perspective. and it certainly helps to hear from the male side. when I met this man, he was already planning his separation. planning and only implementing now because of certain things that have to be in place during these past years, for his less-abled child. Now that things are in place, he IS these few days, going through the separation process. And which is what brought me onto this site - the sheer loneliness of being the other woman, who cannot and should not be a part of that process. I must stress that also, his separation was indeed decided by himself before he and i met. so i can confidently say that i have no part in it. he had already told me very early on, as we met, that regardless of my existence or not, he would be going ahead. he had decided to do it because of the darkness in his marriage over the years. and to prove that has to be the case, his wife's first reaction these few days is that she admitted she had been wrong and horrible, and though he and I had expected the question "is there anyone else", she did not even bother to ask. simply because she was so consumed with the fact that she admits she had been the cause of the darkness. She had been having emotional problems over the years. nothing could change her, or rather she wanted to do nothing other than what she wanted herself. this obviously was nothing anyone could enjoy. anyway, back to myself, yes, i think i have tried in my marriage, and now, it's gone. the feelings are gone. i have stayed for the kids, and yes, now i don't even know if it's right for me to stay much longer. and yes, i need to do something that is fair to everyone. it's a matter of time. i need to have an objective judgement, though it is ever so difficult when you craved love over the years, and now, suddenly love is at your doorstep. (what if someone comes along and tells you you have been what he has been waiting for all his life? ... and no, he is the most decent and mature person who would not really do unreasonable things, just to "score". This is also why he has not rushed me to leave my marriage, and would not want me to jump in with him for as long as things are not sorted. And i guess, with two of us both having our own baggages, we can only afford to have ourselves sorted out ONE at a time!) Don't worry, if you (anyone!) still want to give it to me like it is, feel free ..I need to see things from EVERY angle! Im sorry if you think I am against you but I just don't see it your way. I really do not think this guy is going to leave his wife no matter what he tells you. This may shock you but us guys will say things to girls in order to score. Also, you really can not play the victim card; you are the one cheating. Yes even if one time in an argument he said something to hurt you. You are a grown person and you know what is right and wrong. just imagine whats going to happen when you two are caught. How are your kids going to look at you?
Author Married One Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 I have re-read all your postings today. And yes, I get a sense : 1. you despise what I have done/what I am doing, understandably (as I would too, if I didn't know all the details!) 2. you do NOT trust this man, which is helpful to me, as I think you are a man too? (having checked your profile?) Anyway, like I said, I know, what I have done and am still doing is quite despicable, by anyone's standard, not only the children's. but, I think, if when they are grown-ups. when they know the truth about happiness, they will understand. Also, I am hoping, when they do eventually find out how true this man and I are to each other, they might understand better too. (ie. it's not all about sex and lifestyle etc., it's true compatibility and emotions, which I never had, but was "blackmailed" into staying in my marriage, that is, throughout the years, I had been asked to stay for the children, and recently, or else, I expect I can go without the children). My second part addresses the man. He is a decent man who kept to his pledge to his wife for 14 years, despite the darkness. He did it also mainly because of the children. After about a year seeing him now, I think I know him enough to trust him about this. (I had the exact reservations, if not suspicions, as you when he and I first met). He is one who would walk the talk, and which is what had attracted me. One important example is, without my ever bugging him, he had kept his word about becoming a separated man by this time. I am not saying he is doing it for me (which he definitely isn't), but at least, I know it all hadn't been a ploy to "score" with me etc.. And, he genuninely had his reasons to leave. He had decided to have some love he did not have in his marriage, that was when he came out looking, and found me. If you think about it, he wanted me, and he knew I had been married too, but he already decided it was still me to the end. why? after his separation now, he could easily have anyone else single. why me still? why tell me I am the one, when I have so much baggage to get sorted, and which may take months, if not years? I may sound biased, but i am actually trying to be totally objective. I think, what got both of us together in the first place was our INTEGRITY. hard to apply that word in our situations, but we are trying to do things the best (or second best) way we can. And to do the "right" things. I hope, there would be other posters reading this reply, as i have explained a fair bit in here. According to him its his first time cheating. Also, you can not use your children as an excuse for not divorcing when what you are doing will affect them 10 times worst. If your children find out it will destroy their vision of relationships. You are suppose to be a role model. Also, go through these threads and read how many people have been in your situation and you will see that a lot of times the OM/OW do not leave.
Author Married One Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 I realise I have not so far talked much of my own marriage in here, simply because that has not been what brought me on to this site. What had prompted me to go on this site was my lover's ongoing separation process these few days. That focus had brought me here. Anyway, but, I guess, this site would have been very helpful for me too, during those days when my own marriage WAS in focus. I say that as there was a time when I did think about the problems in my marriage, if I should really save it. However, the light went out. I am not even interested in knowing who did who wrong anymore. But, also, I do believe and admit I must have my faults, and those must've contributed to this outcome. What I can say is, the emotional connections are no longer there, if not beyond repair. We've come too far beyond now, or at least I have. I am not able to go back. We fight a lot even just about the children. This is also a BIG reason why I always feel it's best that we are not together, at least not physically. This is in fact why, because we have, for temporary incidental and logistical reasons (and NOT intentional due to marriage!), been living separately (in different countries!), it has been helpful to me. In fact, I think, it is because of that exact fact I will soon be living at home more permanently again, which I dread, I think, I will probably have to be using this site so much more ...since it'll be impossible to seek in shrink there without being us all gossiped about! And of course, to be fair, when I'm back, it will also be easier for me to really decide what I need to do. According to him its his first time cheating. Also, you can not use your children as an excuse for not divorcing when what you are doing will affect them 10 times worst. If your children find out it will destroy their vision of relationships. You are suppose to be a role model. Also, go through these threads and read how many people have been in your situation and you will see that a lot of times the OM/OW do not leave.
Author Married One Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 For all those who would write to me, I think you might understand me and my situation better, if you would spare a few moments to read first my other postings, especially to Ikjh, to whom I have incidentally explained much of my marital situation. Thank you for your understanding and patience, not to mention your time. Love to you all!
lkjh Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Sorry, but you are fooling yourself if you believe one day your kids are going to be happy about what you are doing. Unless your kids hate their father, they are never going to be understanding of you cheating on him. After all he is their father and you are only one half of their parenting core. Also your case is not unique; there have been hundreds of cases on here where a MM has convinced a woman that he is leaving and the majority of the time he doesn't. There are even cases where he files for divorce but usually he ends up with his wife. Who knows he might but do you really believe the two of you are going to live happily and your spouses (including his "horrible" wife) are going to just let you do this. Divorce you H first before you dig yourself into an even deeper hole.
wildsoul Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Also, it's hard even to know which is a new posting coming in, and which is my new posting etc. ...things are not really highlighted, or printed in bold when new here?? You must be sleeping at this time now .... Go to "My Profile/CP" (located on the top menu bar, on the left) Go to "Settings & Options" (left column menu) Select "Edit Options" Scroll down to "Thread Display Options" Save your selections Personally, I like the display mode called "Linear Newest First." That way all the new unread posts show up as bold at the top when I log in. In any thread, I just scroll down to the first new reply and then read up.
2sure Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Married One - Even though I am a betrayed spouse and have suffered through the hell that is infidelity...and even though I truly believe marriage deserves every single effort before ending.... I cant help but feel for you. Whether or not you should "stay for the kids" ...since you could lose them (partially right?) is a whole other issue But its this: The infidelity is making everything worse and distorted. In fact, to be honest - it sounds like you are very very fond of this man, but not necessarilly in love with him. Right or wrong , he was supposed to be just "an extra luxery" for you. Its possible the relationship between you and he and your feelings for each other - are distorted because of the circumstances of your marriages AND because it is an affair. With all else going on, the big changes you are ready to make in your and your girls lives - get this out of the mix.
frannie Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Hello Married One. I think your posts have touched quite a few people, and we feel for your situation. I see that you are in the UK, but say your marriage is 'Asian'? Are you a UK citizen? Have you consulted with a legal expert on what your rights are regarding access or custody of your children should you choose to divorce? You say you are lonely, do you have friends or family members who could support you? I am also concerned that you are putting a lot of faith and hope in a man who says he's separating. I know that you probably don't want to think of such things, but since you seem to have such little additional support around it worries me that you rely on this other man so much and he might, in the end, let you down. Even if he does not, I think it is always dangerous to rely so heavily on a single individual.
Curmudgeon Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Thank you. some of the posts like yours tonight really gave it to me like it is! And that is good. I admit to my mistake, totally. which is probably why I am not 100% happy like I should be, even though, I like this man a lot. I am grateful for your reminders (about how the children would feel). That is why, I know, as soon as possible, I NEED to do something, somethign different, with my life. soon. I do tend to be rather direct and I can assure you that there is no malice in my cautions. As a divorced father of five children after 25 years of marriage to their mother, I look backl and realize that rather than waiting for her to end the marriage, I should have many years earlier. All my children, now adults, have told me that, each in their own way. That's the why of my admonition to not use the children as an excuse to stay. I realize that in your culture your husband may hold the upper hand but surely there are agencies or organizations dealing with womens' rights you can contact for advice and support; or aren't there?
Author Married One Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 Sorry for late reply. Being new, I had some technical problem since, and only just fixed. Anyway, I hope everybody who wrote will read this post too. There is a slight misunderstanding here. I am not exactly tied down to strict cultural rules that you often hear about in some cultures/countries, although, yes, in our society, men are still given first or more favourable considerations in the event of a marriage breakdown. For example, when a couple divorce, even via lawyers, they have to go through an external panel of people for some weeks, during which the couple would then be screened and/or counselled, and for whatover reason the divorce, the woman would often be asked to re-consider and to reconcile, and to forgive or to be sorry etc.. This should tell you that though it's not as bad as some society, it already does reflect what the general view is towards the man/woman issue. (Apologies that I am maintaining silent on the name of this "society"/country, for I fear this site is so popular, and that, I'm obviously a minority here, it's not necessarily "safe" for me to reveal too much here). Anyway, I understand where you are coming from. Before I commited adultery, I also always despised people who would get involved with other people's spouse. In fact, I did even want to get involved with my man, as much as this sounds redundant or hypocritical, I will elaborate as simply as quickly as I can here : 1. Both got married for reasons that are anything but the natural magic ...or well, beginning there was magic, but this was not so for me, just before marriage. I would even say that actually neither of us were all that enthusiastic. But we/I did it anyway, but I did it with full intention of being the most devoted wife once I commited. And, after marriage, before 3 years was up, I'd already sensed things were wrong, so wrong - no communication, no romance, no connection. By the end of 3 years, before any children, I'd wanted out and told hubby, but hubby said no, or even, "cannot" (yes, he had a way of manipulating this ... what do they call it? Emotional blackmail, is it?) He also said, let's have children, "he" will be better, we will be better. (Hang on, just because I used these words, I am in no way saying the marriage went wrong because of hubby only, of course, I totally belief it took two. For a start, I believe I was adult enough to say yes, so I am adult enough to take responsibility for every outcome since then). 2. As a woman, after 3 years of marriage (and 3 years dating prior to that, ie. total 6 years devoted to this person), and with biological clock ticking, it was indeed too tempting an offer to refuse - to finally have children. The urge to have children prompted this, to put it crudely - it's better than going back out there, don't know when I would ever meet anyone again, and then ever having children, it's best to have them now, than to have the children, maybe, born out of wedlock, out of desperation to have children! But of course, however crude this sounds, it cannot be denied that any troubled partner (esp. a woman), even though he/she may think "this relationship is finished", it's only human, however, to continue hoping inside your heart that, to hang on to that little hope that, MAYBE we CAN try to make it work. This was also partly why I stayed. 3. One child came, things did not improve, if not worse. During the first months, coupled probably with bit of postpartum depression, I admit I wasn't an attractive woman in all ways, but looking back, I think, I would've fared much better,if I had a more helpful and understanding partner. Clearly I needed help in all ways, but instead, I was snubbed in many ways. 4. We then decided to have second child. In fact, for me having the second child was also almost like I was giving the first child a farewell gift/a company. (Yes, I just I needed to "go away" ... amazing how imbalanced some women can become ...so beware to all of you first-time mothers-to-be!) Maybe I could've been more verbal about this all - one of MY mistakes. But, what I didn't say, I compensated with actions, and obviously, both of us had been in different worlds. 5. Over the months/years that followed, there were few more down times when I suggested we needed something done. He lightly acknowledged, because he had to, not so much because he accepted there was anything so wrong. So nothing to be done. 6. I started giving up. 7. I made a decision. Then the feelings went out of the window for me since this period. And since then, that's it. The light just fused, and you can't replace with the same lightbulb, ever. No mention of marriage counselling or whatever else would do anymore. I had no interest or time for this anymore. 8. But, I had time to suggest I leave, again. And nope, this time, it's not only a no. It's a no, the children will always have to be here. If the children MUST be here, fulltime. There can be NO other arrangement or nonsense about custody or visitations etc. Where does the mother go but here too? Again, is this not yet another form of emotional blackmail? Later, it even became if you insist on leaving, YOU can leave. They will stay with me. 9. Children were young, what can I do? He perhaps didn't need the loving feeling, I did. That's when I opened myself to outside affair. At first, being with someone married also was motivating, as it also meant mutual understanding and demands, esp. in terms of time. And even then, I was reluctant. Reluctant to wreck someone/another woman's marriage, just because mine was bad. 10. But I was motivated to get involved with this wonderful man simply because he had an exception. That was, he was on his way to being separated, in around one year. Fast forward - we are at that time now. He is this week going through the separation process for the first time. And he is going through hell. And because of that, I am too. And because of my state now, I came searching for this site. For those who were being understandably skeptical, e.g. they never leave, is he really, how do you know, thank you for your concerns. I know. I know as the best part of our relationship is that we can be and have been totally honest with each other at the outset. And for the one year we've been involved, we also have been doing things which would enable us to eventually come together, ie. work, geography etc.. I admire and adore this guy for who is. (This is one thing, sadly, I did not feel for my husband even just before we got married). But, like a wounded, of course I have my fears. In this forum, I have been condemned quickly for seemingly blindly going into things and then having fears. I talked loosely about those fears in some earlier posts. I am still human, I am still entitled to have my fears and doubts, aren't I? Thanks for your patience and care. I do tend to be rather direct and I can assure you that there is no malice in my cautions. As a divorced father of five children after 25 years of marriage to their mother, I look backl and realize that rather than waiting for her to end the marriage, I should have many years earlier. All my children, now adults, have told me that, each in their own way. That's the why of my admonition to not use the children as an excuse to stay. I realize that in your culture your husband may hold the upper hand but surely there are agencies or organizations dealing with womens' rights you can contact for advice and support; or aren't there?
Author Married One Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 Thanks for your what I can read is really KIND concern. But no, I do NOT think I am being naive or distorted here. I am 43, and I have gone through tirals and errors. I think I know what this affair means. I do like the man a lot. If I leave the marriage, I will NOT leaving the marriage because of him. Though it is tempting to leave the marriage only WHEN he is ready to have me. But, that is the thing. I am in a dilemma right now as I know if I leave, or if I need to leave my marriage, I need to leave BY MYSELF first. That is the right thing to do. The problem is, I want to be with this man, I fear I cannot stand being away from him, whether while staying in marriage or not (ie. right after leaving marriage). i will miss him. But I feel awful also because I do NOT want to be caught while in marriage to be cheating. The last thing I want is for people (incl. my own children), like many people here are assuming, that HE is the one causing my marriage breakdown or the one I'm leaving the marriage for. If you have time, please read my other long post to "Cumingdron" and Frannie (sorry for any names mispelt!) Many, many thanks again! Married One - Even though I am a betrayed spouse and have suffered through the hell that is infidelity...and even though I truly believe marriage deserves every single effort before ending.... I cant help but feel for you. Whether or not you should "stay for the kids" ...since you could lose them (partially right?) is a whole other issue But its this: The infidelity is making everything worse and distorted. In fact, to be honest - it sounds like you are very very fond of this man, but not necessarilly in love with him. Right or wrong , he was supposed to be just "an extra luxery" for you. Its possible the relationship between you and he and your feelings for each other - are distorted because of the circumstances of your marriages AND because it is an affair. With all else going on, the big changes you are ready to make in your and your girls lives - get this out of the mix.
Author Married One Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 Please read my posts today to Frannie, 2sure and Cumindgeon (spelling!) Thanks! Sorry, but you are fooling yourself if you believe one day your kids are going to be happy about what you are doing. Unless your kids hate their father, they are never going to be understanding of you cheating on him. After all he is their father and you are only one half of their parenting core. Also your case is not unique; there have been hundreds of cases on here where a MM has convinced a woman that he is leaving and the majority of the time he doesn't. There are even cases where he files for divorce but usually he ends up with his wife. Who knows he might but do you really believe the two of you are going to live happily and your spouses (including his "horrible" wife) are going to just let you do this. Divorce you H first before you dig yourself into an even deeper hole.
Author Married One Posted December 6, 2008 Author Posted December 6, 2008 Hi. Since you are my tech person here since the beginning, I wonder if I could ask YOU : where does one learn or grasp all that lingo - all the abbreviations ... MW, and etc. and whatever else! Is there a place where we could look up the long forms/explanations of all these abbreviations?!?! Or do we have to go through the motion of using this site long enough or reading through as many posts (even of other topics) as possible? Thanks ! Go to "My Profile/CP" (located on the top menu bar, on the left) Go to "Settings & Options" (left column menu) Select "Edit Options" Scroll down to "Thread Display Options" Save your selections Personally, I like the display mode called "Linear Newest First." That way all the new unread posts show up as bold at the top when I log in. In any thread, I just scroll down to the first new reply and then read up.
wildsoul Posted December 6, 2008 Posted December 6, 2008 Hi. Since you are my tech person here since the beginning, I wonder if I could ask YOU : where does one learn or grasp all that lingo - all the abbreviations ... MW, and etc. and whatever else! Is there a place where we could look up the long forms/explanations of all these abbreviations?!?! Or do we have to go through the motion of using this site long enough or reading through as many posts (even of other topics) as possible? Thanks ! Someone else might have a proper list to post for you. Here's a few most-common ones: A= affair M= married S= separated M= man W= woman P = person MM/W= married man or woman OM/W= other man or woman OP = other person (Sometimes refers to "original poster") B= betrayed W= wayward BS = betrayed spouse WS = wayward spouse
Author Married One Posted December 6, 2008 Author Posted December 6, 2008 Ha! OK, thanks for that prompt response...it's very helpful ...I was just reading some other posts and again, I thought, what is all this BS?!? Ha! Someone else might have a proper list to post for you. Here's a few most-common ones: A= affair M= married S= separated M= man W= woman P = person MM/W= married man or woman OM/W= other man or woman OP = other person (Sometimes refers to "original poster") B= betrayed W= wayward BS = betrayed spouse WS = wayward spouse
2sure Posted December 6, 2008 Posted December 6, 2008 MarriedOne - you are 43. By this time you know yourself, what you want, and know what to do with your marriage. You are not in a society that oppresses women so much as strongly supports the family staying together right? This is it. This is the rest of your life. Rip off the band aid, put on your big girl pants, whatever you want to call it....time for change. That being said...you have to do what is best for your girls. Only you can know what that is.
Angel1111 Posted December 6, 2008 Posted December 6, 2008 i had tried first in my own marriage. My husband rejected me first. He also disallowed any chance of repair, or walking out on my part. He threatened to keep the children, though he welcomed me to walk out later. So then, I basically lost faith and love for him. That was when I decided, while the kids are still young, I looked outward. If you are in my position, you welcome this other wonderful man into your life, literally! This is how it could've happened. For his part, he's had to wait for his child to be ready, like right now. I think your husband is full of hot air. Why do you believe that he can take the children away from you? I think several things are happening for you all at once and they're getting all jumbled in your head. First of all, your marriage stinks. You need to exit stage left. Why are you wasting your life in a dead marriage? Secondly, you're emotionally involved with a guy who's in the process of getting a divorce and it's all becoming very real and scary for you, and thirdly, leaving your marriage does not mean that you have to end up with the other guy. Maybe it means you can give it a shot but if it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. But that has nothing to do with your marriage. You probably need to take this one step at a time in order to move in any real direction. Your first and number one consideration is your marriage and what you're going to do about it. If you're really worried that he'll take the kids away, make an appointment with a lawyer and have a consultation with him/her. A lawyer can answer a lot of questions for you and help you figure out what your options are, what the possibilites are. I think most people know where I stand on this issue of staying in crappy relationships. I'd rather live in Siberia than be in a bad marriage. And the minute a man threatened to take my children away is the same minute that he put the first nail in the coffin. Just my thoughts.
Author Married One Posted December 7, 2008 Author Posted December 7, 2008 I AM COPYING HERE THE FOLLOWING WHICH I HAVE ALSO POSTED ON THE FORUM under "Is MM stalling?" : I'd just sent a reply here to Ilovenewyork via Anne1707. And if you would read it, you would WHY I am so scared and confused now! Before reading your post, I was feeling quite depressed and sad, now, I am feeling not only those but probably I AM the one going insane soon! You really painted a real life picture there ... but, I can also hear that you have some bitterness still, from your own "episode" with an MM? I ask because, what I am about to write, I THINK you might come back and imply that I am still so naive and foolish. You would think that I am, due to bias (for my MM), I'm merely justifying for him. You talked about how BS was 1. How everything is always just MM's words - ticked 2. BS crazy - ticked! My MM's wife supposedly had such a history and suicidal tendency (proven in the past). She prefers to be alone, don't want friends, no friends, crazy or erratic mostly to him all these years, but amazingly, good mother and is not so crazy with her kids (two of them, but both older now), but kids also a little scared of her. 3. BC better nowadays, though still cold and horrible to MM. 4. After MM's of first announcement of wish for separation this week, BS also announced just been diagnosed horrible disease! 5. Will have follow-ups to disease (ie. any need for the type of hospital procedures) within these few weeks. 6. MM said both of them think, if doctor's advice on disease does not have involve too much complication, they will continue MM's desired separation. But, if disease is bad, (or to be reported bad in these next weeks), MM probably can't leave her for fear children will be hateful towards the whole situation. 7. Granted, I was "not in the same room" when all this were discussed, but, I do think/know from experience and observation, MM is honest and walk the talk type. It has NOT been just me and him. I deal with MM's office, and I know how he treats others, and how others view him etc., so that. should tell something, right (that is, that should tell me more than just his own "words" every time). 8. When I met MM, I had been reluctant, (for like you, even now, I NEVER demand MM to dump her and family). It has been exactly because MM already behaved like he was wanting/planning a separation one year later anyway. And we are right on time. So, like I said, it's very much of the walk the talk. Which is why, I hardly doubt MM. (But, I am an open person, and hoping that I grow older AND wiser, so I don't block out others' input, though I do NOT necessarily go with everything blindly either). Finally, actually, before the disease bit was announced to him/then me yesterday, I was already feeling sad for him/them, but, I was also feeling down for my own life/marriage - what I am to do with it, when I have no more love left for my BS, (though I have stayed mainly for our kids - I know, this point has been another touchy subject to many in this forum!). After hearing about this disease, I started feelng even a little sick, as I have trouble believing how I got into all this "drama" in the first place? I had been the type who would condemn and despise people who meddle with people's married lives. And now .... In fact, right now, I am thinking perhaps there is a message in all this for all of us - time to stop "messing around"! I started to grieve already - I am thinking maybe I should just quit, or give all thsi a break, and instead, focus on what to do with my married life - to leave or not to leave..... Now I REALLY wish I would have a lot of input to this post ...I am also posting this in my own of forum under name : "Married One" I'm assuming you both live in the United States. Everyone knows that no court of law in the US is going to allow his wife to keep him from seeing his kid. This isn't 1958 - fathers have plenty of rights now. The only way he'd be prohibited from seeing his son is if he's proved to be abusive or an unfit parent. So his argument about fearing that he'll be cut off from his son is bull. I'm being dead serious when I ask this quesion. You KNOW this because he TOLD you this, or were you in the room when they had this conversation? Seriously, were you in the room and did you hear her threaten suicide and did you hear her threaten to go to the authorities and lie about how he treats his kid? If not, then you can only assume this is what was said by his wife. Unless you live with them 24 hours a day, you really DON'T know what his wife is thinking. You don't. Again, this is tripe being fed to you by your married boyfriend whose cheating and lying. You need to reconcile with the fact that his views are going to be a little JADED and more than likely dishonest. He lies on a daily basis - never forget that. I'm sure her side of the story is going to be somewhat different than his. And might I also remind you that when this woman got pregnant 5 years ago, she DIDN'T do it thinking she'd be raising this kid ALONE. Of course she wants to keep her marriage and her family unit intact. I'm honestly amazed that you comment on this as though she's WRONG to want to do that. Do any of us have kids HOPING to be deserted and become single parents 3, 4 or 5 years down the road? Where's your compassion for God's sakes? And I'm going to ask this question AGAIN. You know this for FACT because.....? Oh yes, because he told you this happened. I'll repeat myself again - unless you were THERE in the room when this happened, you only have his word that it did (and admittedly, his word isn't much - he's lying and cheating, remember?) LOL. I've been reading OW and infidelity boards for years. Do you have any idea HOW many times I've read this same garbage over and over and over? That the poor MM is "trapped" because his crazy, violent wife is mentally imbalanced and the poor, poor MM must stay in the home because he fears for his kid's life? If you had ANY idea how many times MM have used this ridiculous excuse to stay in the marital home you'd actually be embarrassed to have even posted it. Well, since you two claim she's 'scary' and 'mental,' SURELY he knew this going INTO your affair - no? Surely he KNEW this back when he first began plotting to leave her and his child - no? Or was this mental instability very SUDDEN and it's changed all your plans? He's not leaving. Whether you choose to waste more of your time on a dead-end like this is really up to you. I'm sure she was "scary and mental" back in September, right? She's still "scary and mental," so what would be any different in the New Year? I guess when she's no longer "scary and mental" he can make his move. Being completely honest, I would never be a part of asking a man to desert his wife and kid for ME. I was an OW many years ago and my now xMM had a 2 year old kid back then. Never ONCE did I ever ask him to desert his family. EVER. I knew that my role was mostly that of an escape for him because he wasn't overly happy in his marriage. I was a fantasy - an escape. He claimed his undying love for me every single day but when you peeled away all the sweet words and everything else, I was nothing more than an escape for him. You just need to keep that in perspective. Well, if he's claiming that she's "mentally unstable," do you honestly think she's magically going to wake up one morning, right as rain, and that's when he can make his move? He's ALWAYS going to use that excuse because he doesn't plan on leaving. He fantasizes about a new life with you but he's not going to make it happen. He's staying right where he is and his excuse - used by literally MILLIONS of other MM - is that his wife is unstable and he fears for his kid. Geez, you'd think these guys would get some new material. Of course, some of them lie and claim their wives have cancer or some other horrible disease, and they simply can't leave because they'd be a slime if they did. That's another one they use quite a bit. But the most common one is that old standby, "my wife is crazy and will hurt my kid!" excuse. Most women have much more courage than men. Men are complete sissys and stay where they are. Women have the courage to leave a bad marriage. I think the stats are like 80% of divorces are initiated by women. No big surprise there. Men, however, will stay where they are out of a sense of duty, guilt, and a desire to NOT look like the bad guy. And trust me, if he deserts his wife and small child for another woman, people will think he's a scumbag (I would think that about him, too). I'm again calling bullsh*t on this excuse. No court in the land is going to take his kid away from him unless he's PROVED unfit as a parent. But here's a thought - since his wife is so horribly INSANE, why doesn't HE go for full custody of his kid? Since you both claim she's so scary and mentally imbalanced - and has threatened suicide and he fears for his kid's welfare being around this nutcase - why hasn't he started the legal steps of getting this poor kid away from his crazed monster of a mother? I'm sure if she's as crazy as he claims, a psychiatric evaluation will more than seal her fate and he can probably get full custody. I find it kind of odd that he leaves his kid in the care of a woman every single day whom he claims is mentally imbalanced. One would assume that he'd be HOME every single second he could be, trying to make sure his kid is properly being taken care of - since his wife is a nutter and all. Yet, strangely enough, he's NOT doing that. He's spending a good portion of his free time with you rather than being home and making sure his kid is alright. Are you starting to realize how ridiculous his story is? I think your husband is full of hot air. Why do you believe that he can take the children away from you? I think several things are happening for you all at once and they're getting all jumbled in your head. First of all, your marriage stinks. You need to exit stage left. Why are you wasting your life in a dead marriage? Secondly, you're emotionally involved with a guy who's in the process of getting a divorce and it's all becoming very real and scary for you, and thirdly, leaving your marriage does not mean that you have to end up with the other guy. Maybe it means you can give it a shot but if it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. But that has nothing to do with your marriage. You probably need to take this one step at a time in order to move in any real direction. Your first and number one consideration is your marriage and what you're going to do about it. If you're really worried that he'll take the kids away, make an appointment with a lawyer and have a consultation with him/her. A lawyer can answer a lot of questions for you and help you figure out what your options are, what the possibilites are. I think most people know where I stand on this issue of staying in crappy relationships. I'd rather live in Siberia than be in a bad marriage. And the minute a man threatened to take my children away is the same minute that he put the first nail in the coffin. Just my thoughts.
frannie Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 Finally, actually, before the disease bit was announced to him/then me yesterday, I was already feeling sad for him/them, but, I was also feeling down for my own life/marriage - what I am to do with it, when I have no more love left for my BS, (though I have stayed mainly for our kids - I know, this point has been another touchy subject to many in this forum!). After hearing about this disease, I started feelng even a little sick, as I have trouble believing how I got into all this "drama" in the first place? I had been the type who would condemn and despise people who meddle with people's married lives. And now .... In fact, right now, I am thinking perhaps there is a message in all this for all of us - time to stop "messing around"! I started to grieve already - I am thinking maybe I should just quit, or give all thsi a break, and instead, focus on what to do with my married life - to leave or not to leave..... I think this is the best thing you can possibly do. I said in an earlier post that I thought you were relying too much on one individual (your MM), and that you cannot possibly rely on his being there for you. So again, what options do you have where you are for legal advice (on the child custody), the support of friends or family? Do you want a divorce and how can you go about it? Or is there something that can be salvaged of your marriage and would you want that?
Owl Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 I think you're making one critical error that nearly every WS (wayward spouse) makes. You're assuming you can "get away with it" for the next year or more until you're ready to divorce. My wife made that same assumption. She told OM that he'd have to wait until the kids were out of the house or at least much closer to it before she'd leave me...she told him repeatedly that it "might be years". And she blindly assumed that they could carry on their emotional affair that long without getting caught. It didn't take years for me to start suspecting something...it was a matter of days. It didn't take years for me to finally realize it WAS an affair...that was a matter of weeks. It didn't take years for me to get proof...it was five days from the time I knew in my heart that it was an affair until I read that "proof" and confronted my wife. No matter how emotionally disconnected you and your husband are...he's GOING to sense a difference, especially when you move back home. He'll start to put these things together...and you'll be busted. You'll be far better off with starting a divorce under your own terms, and doing so NOW, rather than try to play the affair game for another year or more and HOPE that you don't get caught. I'm curious...what's the "penalty" for adultery in your home country? How would THAT affect the divorce if it were to come up?
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