tman666 Posted December 3, 2008 Posted December 3, 2008 I am an insecure ass hole. That's right, I said it. Whether I have insecurity issues or not is not the question. I have set a trap for my girlfriend. She uses my computer regularly, including to check personal email/social networking sites. The trap is in the form of a keylogger, poised to record her passwords for anything she checks on my computer. Right now, I am pondering whether or not it's worth opening such a pandora's box. She swears up and down she has never lied to me about anything, but recently she came clean and told me that she had lied to me (about a trivial detail, but lied to protect her own image). She has never cheated on me to my knowledge, nor have I ever cheated on her. In many ways, my relationship with her has been amazing. She has been with a few more people than I would generally approve of at her age (22) but it doesn't phase me. What I'm wondering is if she's a chronic liar. Since I knew nothing about her or any of her friends before I met and began casually dating her, I gave her the benefit of the doubt and assumed she was a trustworthy person. After reading many of the threads here, I am beginning to wonder if it is foolish of me to give her my complete trust. I want to trust her, but after she lied to me to protect her own image, I began to question what else she has lied about. I don't do well with any sort of lying. I am an honest person and I expect the same of others. To reiterate and summarize: I don't suspect her of being a cheater, but I want to find out if she's a liar beyond her already self-confessed fib. Should I: A) Uninstall the keylogger, put my complete trust in her and risk the pain of a possible cheating or lying future fiance/wife? Ignorance is bliss type approach? B) Keep it ready to go, but do not employ its use until a situation arises where I feel I am being lied to/cheated on/jerked around? C) Fire it up and do some "research" Thank you in advance. All responses are appreciated, no matter how scathing.
movingonandon Posted December 3, 2008 Posted December 3, 2008 Well, I'm not an insecure, but certainly an unscrupulous *******, so I'm not above such a sneaky and admittedly dirty intent "just on principle". But, before you actually do it, ask yourself if you don't have a more serious issue on your hands: the fact that you ARE feeling insecure. No matter what you find out (or not) you will still be insecure at the end of the day. Even if she comes out squeqky clean, you will stil lbe second guessing what she did/said/etc. The point being is that your security cannot come from verifying that she's not lying to you (which you should assume anyway at this point). I say don't do the keylogger, and instead focus on being a badass that has his own standards, which includes being ready to walk away from her IF you begin to have credible doubts about her character in the future. I don't think this is the case right now. So do both of you a favor and let it go.
Gremio Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 tman, I just have this to say: If you're at a point that you don't trust her, where you hire a private eye or install something on her PC (which is stalker-ish), the relationship is already over.
Author tman666 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 Let me reiterate: the keylogger is on my computer, not hers. Secondly, I do trust her and love her very much. I am just wondering whether or not it's smart to trust her or not based off of the information I have given.
Gremio Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Let me reiterate: the keylogger is on my computer, not hers. Secondly, I do trust her and love her very much. I am just wondering whether or not it's smart to trust her or not based off of the information I have given. You never said what she lied about and if it was something damaging. I am one though who demands complete trust. I don't lie as there is no need. I'm the type who prefers blunt honesty.
Author tman666 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 It had to do with a facebook photo with her and another guy in it (before my time with her, so no cheating). When I asked her if she hooked up with him, she told me "no", but that they had carried on a bit of a LDR for about 2 months after the photo. Later, she tearily confessed (unprovoked, so apparently it was eating at her) that she had hooked up with him on the second night she knew him. I shouldn't have been suprised, I mean it's Vegas, but the fact that she lied to me still bugs me a little bit... She has since sworn up and down that she has never lied about anything else.
tanbark813 Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 From personal experience I'm of the opinion that once you feel the need to pursue this kind of snooping, it's because something is wrong.
Author tman666 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 From personal experience I'm of the opinion that once you feel the need to pursue this kind of snooping, it's because something is wrong. As in irreparably wrong or just something that can be addressed and fixed?
ronlynn Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 OK...key loggers..... I did install one on my G/F's computer. She had cheated on me in the past and it was two years or so later that I put it on. Anyways there was nothing to worry about until about 5 weeks or so ago..... Read more about what I found out here. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t170890/
norajane Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 It had to do with a facebook photo with her and another guy in it (before my time with her, so no cheating). When I asked her if she hooked up with him, she told me "no", but that they had carried on a bit of a LDR for about 2 months after the photo. Later, she tearily confessed (unprovoked, so apparently it was eating at her) that she had hooked up with him on the second night she knew him. I shouldn't have been suprised, I mean it's Vegas, but the fact that she lied to me still bugs me a little bit... She has since sworn up and down that she has never lied about anything else. She came clean about something that you would never have found out about and really doesn't have anything to do with you anyway. That shows her conscience was bothering her. So, she HAS a conscience. And she used it to 'fess up. I say don't fire up the keylogger unless or until you have some concrete reasons to distrust her. Right now, I don't think you have "just cause".
Author tman666 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 She came clean about something that you would never have found out about and really doesn't have anything to do with you anyway. That shows her conscience was bothering her. So, she HAS a conscience. And she used it to 'fess up. I say don't fire up the keylogger unless or until you have some concrete reasons to distrust her. Right now, I don't think you have "just cause". I agree with this. It won't be used until I have much more concrete reasons to mistrust her beyond my own bouts of paranoia.
PrincessPeach Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 How would you feel if you found out she put a keylogger to find out things about you? If you are all about complete honesty, you using a keylogging software to find out things about her is you being dishonest with her.
Author tman666 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 How would you feel if you found out she put a keylogger to find out things about you? If you are all about complete honesty, you using a keylogging software to find out things about her is you being dishonest with her. That is absolutely true. Using a keylogger to retrieve her passwords is not only sneaky, but unfair and dishonest. My question is whether or not it's a smart thing to do considering the circumstances.
Ocean-Blue Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Unless you have something reasonable to go on, you are engaging in some highly unethical behaviour. It doesn't matter that it's your computer. You are seeking to invade her privacy to satisfy your curiosity. You two are just getting to know each other...what do you want, a brief history on her? I think you're asking for trouble. You might find out details that don't matter in the large scheme of things, but ones that will bother you nonetheless. You will lay awake at night, wondering. You will ask yourself whether you should clarify it with her...then all hell will break loose. You are bound to find something that bothers you...something she did in the past, something she said, etc. Do you really want to go there? If you are already the paranoid type, you will only be fueling it.
norajane Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 That is absolutely true. Using a keylogger to retrieve her passwords is not only sneaky, but unfair and dishonest. My question is whether or not it's a smart thing to do considering the circumstances. NO, it's not a smart thing to do. And it would make you both a hypocrite and a liar! You said: I don't do well with any sort of lying. I am an honest person and I expect the same of others. You are holding her to a standard of honesty you yourself do not meet. If it doesn't trouble you that sneaking behind her back to steal her passwords and spy on her email and other accounts is dishonest, then you don't deserve her honesty because you are NOT an honest person yourself.
tanbark813 Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 From personal experience I'm of the opinion that once you feel the need to pursue this kind of snooping, it's because something is wrong. Most likely irreparable. I'm not trying to be an alarmist though. Go with your gut. IMO, if you're with someone trustworthy you won't feel the need to snoop or check up on them but take that FWIW.
norajane Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Most likely irreparable. I'm not trying to be an alarmist though. Go with your gut. IMO, if you're with someone trustworthy you won't feel the need to snoop or check up on them but take that FWIW. He's already said he's insecure, so I don't know if his need to snoop is a valid gut-check.
tanbark813 Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 He's already said he's insecure, so I don't know if his need to snoop is a valid gut-check. Yes, but is he insecure naturally or is he insecure because of the lie or other aspects of the relationship? Even though the lie described was relatively innocent it still plants the seed of doubt and makes the recepient wonder what else might be false.
Ocean-Blue Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Yes, but is he insecure naturally or is he insecure because of the lie or other aspects of the relationship? Even though the lie described was relatively innocent it still plants the seed of doubt and makes the recepient wonder what else might be false. Yup. It leads to constant doubt, paranoia and insecurity.
norajane Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Yes, but is he insecure naturally or is he insecure because of the lie or other aspects of the relationship? Even though the lie described was relatively innocent it still plants the seed of doubt and makes the recepient wonder what else might be false. This leads me to believe it's internal rather than due to his gf: I am an insecure ass hole. That's right, I said it. Whether I have insecurity issues or not is not the question.
JackJack Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 IMO, break things off with her. Get yourself some help for your insecurity issues before pursuing further relationships. if you don't, all relationship you get into will be like this.
Vertex Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 This is a really tricky subject, IMO. Just because someone lies about one thing doesn't mean they're a full-blown cheater or something. One lie does not condemn someone to a title of eternal dishonesty, even if there's a small seed of doubt. What exactly was it that she lied about before? I view things like keyloggers as extreme-last-resorts. In a past relationship, I got into my ex's email account to verify for myself that she was cheating. I did this only because many things my ex had been telling me simply did *not* add up. She'd been caught in too many lies, and her emotional distancing only lent additional credence to my suspicions. Getting into her email was the only way for me to confirm her cheating, since this had technically been a cross-college LDR, so it wasn't like I could observe her directly. Regardless, if I could do it over again, I don't know if I would have gone into her email. Such things are still inherently dishonest and unethical. I could have simply said "Regardless of whether or not you are cheating, you're clearly being dishonest with me for reasons X, Y, and Z, and I don't appreciate how I'm being treated here" -- and simply end the relationship on those grounds. No dishonesty required. Even if you ran a keylogger and found something, you're still engaging in a dishonest action, breaking the very bonds of honesty that you're holding up against your girlfriend. It's one of those things where the ends don't necessarily justify the means. Either way, you're invading privacy through deception. In the end, it's a judgment call. You have to be prepared to accept the possibility that you snoop and find absolutely nothing, making you both a dishonest AND paranoid hypocrite who has technically just done something dump-worthy from the perspective of the girlfriend. If you find something, the only word you may be able to drop in the previous description is "paranoid." I only broke that privacy when I knew in my heart of hearts that I would find something -- when I was being treated so poorly and lied to so often, and fed stories that simply did not agree with one another at all. So, no, I can't say I've been 100% honest in my life, but it was a decision that allowed me to confirm my justified suspicions and walk away from the relationship without looking back. In this case, it doesn't seem like there's nearly enough evidence to justify resorting to this sort of action. Resort to everything else first before you start jumping into the realm of breaking your own standards. Like Tanbark said, normally the need to snoop only truly arises when you know something's obviously wrong, where evidence has piled up, and the relationship is more or less screwed as is.
allina Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 I think that if you do something like installing a key logger you're at least somewhat psycho. If you feel like you need to do this you either have major distrust issues, or you have an unhealthy relationship that lacks love, commitment and trust, in which case there is no need to stick around.
Author tman666 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 Thank you all for the replies. This is what I'm going to take away from your responses: 1) I'm not going to run the keylogger, unless I have been shown beyond a reasonable doubt that I need to use it to drive a final nail, so to speak. My relationship with her is full of love, trust, and commitment. 2) I now realize that it is going to have to take a lot more than one little instance to destroy my relationship, especially if I refrain from such dishonest and unethical activities as keylogging. 3) I will take the higher road, practicing what I preach... Thanks to all
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