SoulSearch_CO Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Well, amaysn - the majority of pressure I see comes from the male end of the equation (in my own personal experience). Blame it on the skeeze balls that offer one-night stands like it's something unique or flattering. I do derive pleasure from sex as much as a man can, but would prefer to not do it with some guy just because it "feels good." I've done the casual stuff - I don't like it and my self-respect was damaged in the process. Like I said - call me old-fashioned...I don't see the purpose to having sex too early on. I like to have some kind of depth of feeling involved, but that's JUST ME. I would like to add here, as well - I've had women attracted to me that were wishing I'd do something to them. But they weren't so brazen as to suggest that I go get down with them like they thought I owed it to them, or something.
amaysngrace Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Well, amaysn - the majority of pressure I see comes from the male end of the equation (in my own personal experience). Blame it on the skeeze balls that offer one-night stands like it's something unique or flattering. I do derive pleasure from sex as much as a man can, but would prefer to not do it with some guy just because it "feels good." I've done the casual stuff - I don't like it and my self-respect was damaged in the process. Like I said - call me old-fashioned...I don't see the purpose to having sex too early on. I like to have some kind of depth of feeling involved, but that's JUST ME. I don't blame it on any skeeze ball that you have hang ups. I don't blame it on any guy who took it casually from you when you offered it up. I don't blame the guys who hit it and quit it to leave you with your self-respect damaged in the process. I blame you.
SoulSearch_CO Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 LOL...I don't have "hang-ups." I have self-respect and I have preferences. Don't get annoyed that I have higher standards. And FTR - none of them "hit it and quit it." I quit THEM because I didn't like how I felt emotionally after the casual encounter. Like I said - I like some depth of feeling to be involved. But then, I was raised differently than you were, so try walking in my shoes first before judging. Thanks.
marlena Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Holding out for sex is for children and regressive societies.
amaysngrace Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 LOL...I don't have "hang-ups." I have self-respect and I have preferences. Don't get annoyed that I have higher standards. And FTR - none of them "hit it and quit it." I quit THEM because I didn't like how I felt emotionally after the casual encounter. Like I said - I like some depth of feeling to be involved. But then, I was raised differently than you were, so try walking in my shoes first before judging. Thanks. With all due respect...go get laid.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 It seems silly to me too and I don't enjoy feeling used or exploited. I enjoy sex. And if I am with a guy I want sex with I have it. Shouldn't he feel used and exploited as well by your standards? Or do you do the double-standard thing? Double standard? Why would you assume that only works one way? So, what your really saying is that sex isn't anything important to you. Just something fun to do, or a biological urge. I like to be picky about who I jump in the sack with. I contribute that primarily to the fact that I respect myself. Wow, where do I begin . Let's start with long vs short term intentions. What determines if a woman is a long-term material is the evidence of her character, revealed over the course of ectended interaction in a relationship of at least 3 to 6 months. So, at what point the sex happened is irrelevant for making this decision. (and for the record, most guys will not think that they're in a relationship with a woman until they've had sex with her) Feeling exploited? Well, the only thing that determines whether this is the case is whether you have anything to offer other than booty . If you don't, why be surprised if guys are only after it? (And even so, why call it exploitation, rather than "appreciation" ). Witholding the booty won't cause any other character qualities to magically appear. (And, conversely, having sex will not cause them to disappear if they are there). re: standards. If waiting for a set number of dates before having sex is your primariy evidence of having standards... well... that's not a very strong evidence of any self-awareness to begin with, is it? The problem is that you see "some women" as nothing more than a booty call. If your up front with them about it... it's all good in the hood. However, you would be in the vast minority of men. I've been around long enough to know that the easier it is to get a girl in the sack, the crazier she tends to be. It's like this... if she thinks your not into her because you didn't maul her on the 3rd date... she is going to get all insecure the first time you forget to kiss her on the cheek before leaving for work. Sexual behavoir is a fantastic indicator of mental health.
amaysngrace Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Sexual behavoir is a fantastic indicator of mental health. Okay so what does that say about the ones who make them wait for X amount of dates? Controlling, right?
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 What if the woman wants it?? My God you act as though men are the only ones getting something out of having sex! You'd be best not to be in a sexual relationship until you realize women derive pleasure from the act as well. No matter what your gender is. Here is how this works. When a person has self respect, self esteem, and confidence, they tend to be pickier about whom they engage in sex with. You can't be picky when you've only known someone for a short and easily controlled period of time. Now, if your trying to argue that you are so horny that you can't hold off, and any ass clown will do. Your the type that most guys don't want to marry anyway.
amaysngrace Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Here is how this works. When a person has self respect, self esteem, and confidence, they tend to be pickier about whom they engage in sex with. You can't be picky when you've only known someone for a short and easily controlled period of time. Now, if your trying to argue that you are so horny that you can't hold off, and any ass clown will do. Your the type that most guys don't want to marry anyway. You really don't know my specifics so to lump me into a category of your perception of "women who don't count how many dates before having sex" is grossly innaccurate. Not only that but you sound haughty and foolish. No offense.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Okay so what does that say about the ones who make them wait for X amount of dates? Controlling, right? That argument does not make sense. A woman who waits to have sex is not controlling me. That is a silly assertion, because I control my own actions. I can wait or walk or do whatever. Your earlier argument is that it's pleasurable for both... right? Therefore by waiting until you are reasonably sure this is someone worth jumping in bed with... then you are indeed excersizing self control. ... so your suggesting self control is a bad thing?
marlena Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Your the type that most guys don't want to marry anyway. Or your type wouldn't be the type most independent,confident, intelligent, emancipated women would want to marry!
amaysngrace Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 That argument does not make sense. A woman who waits to have sex is not controlling me. That is a silly assertion, because I control my own actions. I can wait or walk or do whatever. Really? How controlling is it when she becomes your wife and you know she will make you wait for sex until everything, and I mean everything, goes her way? Your choices become more and more limited now don't they? But heck you married her because she had the self-respect to make you wait exactly 14 dates before she slept with you.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 You really don't know my specifics so to lump me into a category of your perception of "women who don't count how many dates before having sex" is grossly innaccurate. Not only that but you sound haughty and foolish. No offense. I'm not advocating counting dates. I am however saying that you should get to know somebody before getting intimate with them. No Offence taken. I'm referencing your world view more than your actual life choices.
Author movingonandon Posted December 1, 2008 Author Posted December 1, 2008 I've been around long enough to know that the easier it is to get a girl in the sack, the crazier she tends to be. It's like this... if she thinks your not into her because you didn't maul her on the 3rd date... she is going to get all insecure the first time you forget to kiss her on the cheek before leaving for work. Sexual behavoir is a fantastic indicator of mental health. Interesting . I have no suficient experience to verify the crazy part, but all of my guy friends (and their friend's friends) have mentioned in one way or anothet that the girl they eventually ended up with in a commited relationship with was a lot more uninspiring/boring/routine/uninterested sexually the runner-up (i.e. their previous girl). The problem with the runner-ups was that they were typically crazy. Now I really hope that this is not universally true, obviously. Call me a pig, but makes you wonder if girls really wanting LTRs don't actually strategize to a greater extent than admissible, including the use of sex. While girls that don't particularly care of how feasible or healthy the relationship is (i.e. the "crazy ones") could be more open sexually. Discuss. (Of course, there are cases like my ex that are both extremely open sexually and overly concerned about the relationship, but still in a crazy way).
amaysngrace Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 I am however saying that you should get to know somebody before getting intimate with them. This I agree with. However long that happens to be.
Trialbyfire Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Why do people feel they're entitled to someone else's body, if the other person isn't ready for it? Each person has a choice of what they want to do. If you're the type of person to bond with sex, hold back from indulging too soon. You might find yourself bonding with someone you later desperately wish you hadn't. If you can compartmentalize and consider it just fun and games, have sex right away, first date, why not? It should be a natural progression, not something that one party wants and the other person is forced to do, even though their biological timeline is different.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Or your type wouldn't be the type most independent,confident, intelligent, emancipated women would want to marry! Why? Because I have standards. The fact that you resort to implying I am a chauvanist, just because I don't agree with you... that says more about you than it does me. What I am saying just as easily applies to men as it does to women. Simply because I don't say that in every single post doesn't mean you can try and slander me for it. Really? How controlling is it when she becomes your wife and you know she will make you wait for sex until everything, and I mean everything, goes her way? Your choices become more and more limited now don't they? But heck you married her because she had the self-respect to make you wait exactly 14 dates before she slept with you. That is exactly why I prefer to wait. I was in a relationship just like your describing, and we had sex very early on. Realize that women who view sex as a tool to control others withhold just as readily as they give. It's very situational, and has no bearing on this conversation. You seem like someone who is really nice, so if your on the dating scene. Really put some thought into what I just said. Not as a double standard either... meaning if a guy is pushy for sex right away... that may have some meaning to it.
Gremio Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 I thought the concept of "holding out for sex" was just a myth, but reading the posts here, it seems to be the prevailing mindset... I would have no problem with it, except that it makes no sense whatsoever, none at all, the logic is whack The rarionale usually is that if you see that the relationship has "potential" (i.e. the possibility of being long term i presume, more multi dimensional, etc.), then it's not a good idea to have sex "too soon" (i.e. within furst couple of dates) ad this would devalue it in some way, or will make the guy think that you're a ho . The problem I see with this that (from my point of view), the timing of sex has absolutely nothing to do with how I view the relationship potential... I.e. if I'm genuinely interested in a woman having sex early will do nothing to change that, and if I'm not genuinely interested (in a LTR, the girl might be just fine otherwise), waiting for sex wan't change that either (but it's not a problem at all to 'wait' as much as necessary.... i.e. who said I wouldn't be willing to wait, even if it is just for a casual hook up...) So, what's the point??? Male, mid 20s here. To me it shows a sign of committment, willpower, and that you're not into a person just to get in their pants. If I dated someone and she jumped on me the first date, the first thing that comes to mind is she does this to every guy, which is a huge turn off for me. I am a very sexual person, but I think with my big head, not little one.
marlena Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Why? Because I have standards. Everyone has standards. Their own standards. Yours are no better or worse than anyone else's. The fact that you resort to implying I am a chauvanist, just because I don't agree with you... that says more about you than it does me. I am not implying anything. I just see things much differently than you do. Now, if you think that you are a chauvinist, well, then, sorry, nothing I can do about that.
Author movingonandon Posted December 1, 2008 Author Posted December 1, 2008 Really? How controlling is it when she becomes your wife and you know she will make you wait for sex until everything, and I mean everything, goes her way? Your choices become more and more limited now don't they? But heck you married her because she had the self-respect to make you wait exactly 14 dates before she slept with you. Wow, it's really hard to tell the one from the other. Hence, the paranoia . I guess the only way to discern is to make moves early and assertively and carefully observe reactions (and not engage in wishful thinking) . If I subscribe to the logic "she respects herself too much that's why she won't sleep with me on date # 5", what does it say about my self-esteem? The only message it sends is "Whoa, you should try harder, buddy". Which brings me back to my original point that most women that genuinely like or respect a man would not have this attitude. It's one thing to say coyly "Let's not push it/things are mooving too fast" and "I have this very specific reason (health, still hung up on my ex, i haven't walked my dog, whatever) not to want to have sex with you right now"
amaysngrace Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Realize that women who view sex as a tool to control others withhold just as readily as they give. It's very situational, and has no bearing on this conversation. You seem like someone who is really nice, so if your on the dating scene. Really put some thought into what I just said. Not as a double standard either... meaning if a guy is pushy for sex right away... that may have some meaning to it. I understand that. I don't view sex as a tool or a duty or a job. I enjoy sex. It makes me feel good. Thank you for saying that I seem nice. I hate to tarnish this opinion you have of me but I usually want the guy I'm with as much as he wants me.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Interesting . I have no suficient experience to verify the crazy part, but all of my guy friends (and their friend's friends) have mentioned in one way or anothet that the girl they eventually ended up with in a commited relationship with was a lot more uninspiring/boring/routine/uninterested sexually the runner-up (i.e. their previous girl). The problem with the runner-ups was that they were typically crazy. I've heard that as well. My personal belief is that it's an internal perception problem. I don't know why but many of us guys tend to have what they call a "madonna-whore" complex. Sure sometimes it's about inhibitions, but I've always had a thing for the frigid types... and I can assure you that more often than not they are just as exciting once a level of trust/comfort is built up.
marlena Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 There are all types of sex. From mere physical attraction to emotional bonding. Sometimes you make seek one, sometimes another. What the heck is the big deal?
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Thank you for saying that I seem nice. I hate to tarnish this opinion you have of me but I usually want the guy I'm with as much as he wants me. You just completely wrecked my whole view of you! You are correct. The argument is in the selection process. That is why I feel older people, don't have to wait as long as younger ones should. They are more experienced and can generally read others much better. When I was young I was fairly niave, and most others are as well. So I always suggest to wait. It's a big descision and no need to rush it.
amaysngrace Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 When I was young I was fairly niave, and most others are as well. So I always suggest to wait. It's a big descision and no need to rush it. Geez where were you when I was young and naive and rushing into things? You could have changed my life.
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