Is every affair a mess?

[Marteka]

New here and feeling a little wary. I have known this MM from work for over a year. I like him and consider us friends. I am single, and wouldn't you know it, find him very attractive. Things are starting to wander into dangerous territory, with looks passed between us and conversations becoming more personal. He finds excuses to come into my office for some irrelevant discussion even if we are not working on the same project. I am guilty of the same thing.

I don't want this to turn into a PA. Yet I find myself fantasising about him, dressing for the office with him in mind etc. The last office function we had, we both drank a little too much, had a D&M conversation and got up to leave together, but I made myself hang around to talk to other colleagues and he left before I did.

I have been cheated on in a longterm relationship and was basically a pathetic victim who should have ended it (no kids involved - luckily), but forgave my then BF and spent years hanging on to a dead horse. I had cheated on someone before that as well - it was an ONS and he never found out. I suspect he had a couple of those as well. One of my parents was involved in a decade-long affair and finally left the marriage to continue the affair. I am on good terms with both my parents and they have both moved on.

So I have seen quite a bit of cheating in my time (as have many of us!)and have very few moral hang-ups about it. My atttitude after my own disastrous relationship became don't ask, don't investigate and don't tell. But not everyone is the same of course. I don't want to hurt people i.e. MM's wife and kids, just because of a weak will or loss of judgement after a few too many.

I have asked for a transfer (for unrelated reasons) and will move to another office in a few months, so am hoping to remain self-restrained for the duration.

In the meantime, I'm curious - has anyone ever started and ended an affair with all parties intact??? Or is it just a disaster waiting to happen as so many of these threads attest???

[OWoman]

In the meantime, I'm curious - has anyone ever started and ended an affair with all parties intact??? Or is it just a disaster waiting to happen as so many of these threads attest???

 

I've had several As with no lasting consequence - once I walked away, it was "as you were"... And others where the MM fell in love and dumped the BW (and duly got dumped, as that wasn't what I wanted - and they knew that at the outset), but I guess those MMs were just looking for an opportunity to shake off the marital shackles. Unfortunately, there's no reliable way to tell in advance how it will end up. My current R started off as a part-time A, it was supposed to be a brief fling but here we are, a good deal later, he's left his M and we're together.

 

You never can tell, I guess.

[Ronni_W]

- has anyone ever started and ended an affair with all parties intact??? Or is it just a disaster waiting to happen

If you take out all the "other stuff", then it's just a relationship between two people like any other. Some people do have the belief that all relationships end in disaster, and others don't.

 

Then, when you add back all the "other stuff", IMO, yeah, it does increase the chances for disaster quite significantly, and with high stakes. I guess it depends on how one likes to play the odds?

[wildsoul]

I don't want this to turn into a PA. Yet I find myself fantasising about him, dressing for the office with him in mind etc. The last office function we had, we both drank a little too much, had a D&M conversation and got up to leave together, but I made myself hang around to talk to other colleagues and he left before I did.

Sounds like your instincts are telling you loud and clear to avoid going farther. You'd be wise to trust that. Even if it's worked out for someone else (which happens sometimes) that could just help you to justify proceeding into territory where your instincts are cautioning you. It might be your intution about him in particular, or about your tolerance for being an OW in general. But as I'm sure you know, it's SO much easier to put the brakes on now than it would be if you get more involved.

 

Whatever you decide, you're in the right place to discuss it.

 

To answer your specific question, I'll add that I know at least one couple who's marriage began as an affair that really has worked out. But did ALL parties come through w/o hurt? Not exactly. It was painful for the year or two it took them to get through it. Everyone got hurt; it's just that everyone seems to have healed up okay in the end.

 

Most others I know end up badly, including mine it seems. For the last few months (after he moved out into his own place) I thought we were going to make it. But then now there's a whole other bunch of ugly surfacing and I'm in the midst of breaking up with him (again.) Ouchies.

[norajane]

It certainly will be a mess FOR YOU if you fall in love with him and he has no intention or desire to leave his wife. That leaves you hanging on to a guy who has a whole life with his wife that has nothing to do with you. That leaves you wondering whether he's having sex with her that night while you sit at home alone. That leaves you alone during the holidays. That prevents you from meeting and falling in love with someone who could actually give you a complete relationship.

[Lizzie60]

In the meantime, I'm curious - has anyone ever started and ended an affair with all parties intact??? Or is it just a disaster waiting to happen as so many of these threads attest???

 

Each and everyone of the A's that have ended and I've been involved with a lot... all started and ended without any mess..

 

It's just about how you both deal with the A from the beginning.. you both have to be very clear about the expectations.. no commitment.. no leaving the marriage.. no drama.. etc..

[Marteka]

Thanks so much for this. Reading back on what I wrote, I think it was a little self-justifying.

I don't want this to turn into a PA.

 

On some level, yes, I do want it to turn into a PA because I've admitted I've fantasised about him. But I'm supremely nervous about the repercussions.

 

Even if it's worked out for someone else (which happens sometimes) that could just help you to justify proceeding into territory where your instincts are cautioning you.

 

And it made me smile that wildsoul saw immediately what my question was really about!

 

It certainly will be a mess FOR YOU if you fall in love with him and he has no intention or desire to leave his wife.

Actually, I would not expect him to leave his wife, in fact, I could not imagine anything worse for him and his family. The falling in love bit, now that, I can't guarantee...

 

It's just about how you both deal with the A from the beginning.. you both have to be very clear about the expectations.. no commitment.. no leaving the marriage.. no drama.. etc..

 

I really get this attitude but do he and I have the fortitude? And if I suspect that either of us don't, why can't I stop playing with fire?!

 

I don't know if I will have anything to report back on, but in any case this is a great forum. There really is far more level-headed discussion and less moralising than on others I've seen!

[norajane]

Actually, I would not expect him to leave his wife, in fact, I could not imagine anything worse for him and his family. The falling in love bit, now that, I can't guarantee...

 

You don't want him to leave his wife now, but when you fall in love with him and miss him every night he goes home to his wife, you very well might wish that he would. This forum is full of women who start out saying "I never thought this would happen to me..."

 

I really get this attitude but do he and I have the fortitude? And if I suspect that either of us don't, why can't I stop playing with fire?!

 

Lizzie gets paid for the services she provides to all her many MM, and you are correct, that requires a certain kind of fortitude few can manage.

[Meaplus3]

Honestly it sounds to me like your headed for a big mess if you don't put the kabosh on this now. If you and this mm are now talking about personal things that go beyond work related issues.. your most likely in the early stages of an ea. I had a rather long ea with a mm and just before the ea came to an end it was very close to beign on the verge of an pa. Lucky for me it ended before the pa took place, but the affair devestated me and caused more harm than good. Stop it now.. and save yourself a world of heartbreak.

 

AP:)

[jaffas]

while every affair may not end as a 'mess', you will never be the same after it.

[Adunaphel]

I really get this attitude but do he and I have the fortitude? And if I suspect that either of us don't, why can't I stop playing with fire?!

 

Because you are more or less subconsciously hoping that neither of you will have the fortitude, and that you will *both* fall in love, so even if he is not going to leave his W you will still have the consolation prize that he'll remind you as a special person and bring you forever in your heart.

 

...which is probably not how it is going to work.

 

This is just a guess, but you sound a lot like myself some time ago.

 

Please trust your istinct and force yourself to imagine all the possible scenarioes, expecially the less pleasant ones.

[OWoman]

Lizzie gets paid for the services she provides to all her many MM

 

Perhaps she does, but that doesn't make it a unique attitude or one that comes only with the transfer of money or payment in kind. I had a very similar attitude in many of my As, and it worked perfectly without any "mess". I got what I wanted - hot sex, on tap, as and when I wanted it from whomever I fancied - and it worked for them too.

 

But you're right that it's not for everyone - and if emotions or even love are a risk factor, things could go pear-shaped very quickly.

[OWoman]

Please trust your istinct and force yourself to imagine all the possible scenarioes, expecially the less pleasant ones.

 

And force him to, too. Have the discussion in all its logistical minutiae, so that he fully comprehends the risks and gambles he's taking, so that you can be sure that, if you do both decide to go ahead, you're going in with your eyes open and making an informed, adult choice.

 

Adunaphel suggests that it might not work out the way you subconsciously picture it - the alternative to consider is, what if it does? Are you really ready for the rollercoaster ride that that involves, if he does leave his W? it could work out to be heaven, like GEL's, or it could work out to be painful, like WS's, or anything in between as so many other threads show, but the one thing they all involve is massive disruption and huge emotional turmoil along the way.

 

If you can do - and sustain - the Lizzie thing, great; if not, make sure you're prepared for where you're headed. It's quite a ride...

[norajane]

Perhaps she does, but that doesn't make it a unique attitude or one that comes only with the transfer of money or payment in kind.

 

It most certainly does lend itself to a unique attitude in that both parties know it's ONLY a transaction and not because there's this awesome connection they've developed over a year at work that could lead to OW wanting MM to leave his wife for her.

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie gets paid for the services she provides to all her many MM, and you are correct, that requires a certain kind of fortitude few can manage.

 

Ha-hem.. you need to read ALL my posts.. some (like the one at work) have absolutely NO idea what I do ...

[frannie]

I'm curious - has anyone ever started and ended an affair with all parties intact??? Or is it just a disaster waiting to happen as so many of these threads attest???

 

Yeah, it's happened, I'm sure. I expect a lot of affairs occur and people end them without huge emotional impact, but those aren't going to be the ones that lead someone to come looking for support on websites.

 

On the other hand you talk about hurting his W and kids and even him, and curiously you leave yourself out. But from what you say you have a history (perhaps only once) of being unable to make a clean break when you felt hurt:

 

I have been cheated on in a longterm relationship and was basically a pathetic victim who should have ended it (no kids involved - luckily), but forgave my then BF and spent years hanging on to a dead horse.

 

Not saying this is bound to happen, but it does happen a lot with OW, because there's always a reason to hang on... And I don't think people write things which are unrelated to the business in hand, I think something inside you knows you have this tendancy which is why you wrote about it here. In three years time you could be here hanging onto MM and feeling like a pathetic victim beating another dead quadruped.

 

I don't want this to turn into a PA. Yet I find myself fantasising about him, dressing for the office with him in mind etc.

 

Fun at the moment and exciting... But yeah, I'm thinking you should follow your gut on this, it's probably trying to tell you something really important. Like he pushes a lot of your buttons and you're going to find that really hard to let go of once the time comes.

[jwi71]

So I have seen quite a bit of cheating in my time (as have many of us!)and have very few moral hang-ups about it. My atttitude after my own disastrous relationship became don't ask, don't investigate and don't tell. But not everyone is the same of course. I don't want to hurt people i.e. MM's wife and kids, just because of a weak will or loss of judgement after a few too many.

 

Then you have a decision to make. Do you pursue your own needy, selfish desires and hurt people or not?

 

Because every A is pain. For you. For him. For the innocent. Real question is - is the pain worth the sex (and emotion) you put into him?

 

Up to you - which is it: selfish pleasure and pain and hurting everyone involved or resisting and having sexual desires go "unfulfilled"?

[wildsoul]

Not saying this is bound to happen, but it does happen a lot with OW, because there's always a reason to hang on... And I don't think people write things which are unrelated to the business in hand, I think something inside you knows you have this tendancy which is why you wrote about it here. In three years time you could be here hanging onto MM and feeling like a pathetic victim beating another dead quadruped.

Wise words there!

I'd like to add that any tendency to hang on is exaserbated out of a sense of responsibility--afterall, you might say to yourself, "I chose this R willingly. I knew what I was getting into. I should be more patient." Also (what I found) is that the MM might also point to you and say, "You knew I was M, please be patient while I do what I need to do about my M." Plus, you know how it is with any relationship: the more time/energy you invest, the harder it is to leave.

[Owl]

I've never heard of a case where two parties had an EMOTIONAL affair (like what you're already beginning with this MM) and it didn't end in a mess.

 

Sure, some people can have purely PHYSICAL relationships (ala Lizzie and Owoman) without it becoming an entanglement. But they are indeed the exception, and not the rule. And in these cases, there is NOT any kind of deep emotional attachment between them and their prospective MM...which is clearly NOT your situation. (I'm NOT referring to Owoman's CURRENT affair, in which she is now emotionally attached to her MM...but will state that this clearly IS a mess for his wife whom he's leaving to be with Owoman.).

 

You're starting out with an emotional attachment. This will only deepen if you expand this into a physical relationship.

 

And EMOTIONAL affairs nearly always end in a trainwreck for SOMEONE.

[whichwayisup]

I don't want to hurt people i.e. MM's wife and kids, just because of a weak will or loss of judgement after a few too many.

 

Well, if you don't want to hurt his wife and kids, let alone yourself, stop what you're doing. You are a grown adult who can control herself. Knowing he is married and still continuing on is only going to bring a dramatic painful rollercoaster ride into your life willingly.