ipetree Posted November 29, 2008 Posted November 29, 2008 Moving on, good post and I agree. I also think women today want a sort of "half ass" marriage. I do not understand why they want to be married at all? Appearances? The ability to work if they want, and not work if they want? Extra money? If you are going into a marriage thinking of easy outs, that seems to be doomed for failure. The completely wrong mindset. It would be similar to me wanting to be a professional athlete, yet not devoting myself to it fully, as I need to study 8 hours a day in case I do not make it in athletics. That would make me a mediocre athlete. In the past, if men cheated, women could take the house, kids, and receive alimony. It is not like you were not protected at all. I think men can circumvent all of this simply by have a few FWB's or a live in girlfriend. Why enter into a half ass marriage? I would rather have complete freedom than a half ass wife looking and planning for outs.
movingonandon Posted November 29, 2008 Posted November 29, 2008 Well, if independence means a lower chance of ever marrying, I'd rather take the independence. Movingonandon, what you're saying about women who 'bail ship' as soon as the marriage hits a hard place could just as well apply to men. A good number of men have affairs when their wives grow old, claiming mid-life crises or whatnot. As a woman, I'd rather have a fulfilling career that enables me to be financially and emotionally independent, thus allowing me to leave a marriage in case this happens. Back in the day when this happened, women would have no choice but to watch their husbands take on mistresses and such. Now, yes, women can bail ship because they have the financial means to do so - but that's a good thing! Anyway, I just wanted to show that things go both ways... As long as humans of both sexes aren't completely monogamous, it is to the advantage of both sexes to be economically independent. I can only feel grateful to feminism for levelling that playing field, even if it's made men more reluctant to marry. Yup, things work both ways, of course. But: i've just never, ever, hear anybody complain that "women are afraid of commitment/being averse to marriage"... hence the emphasis on male perspective. So, I think that I'm onto something here.
carhill Posted November 29, 2008 Posted November 29, 2008 Some people say if the guy is happy but doesn't have intentions to permanently "settle down" some day that means he wants to keep his options open...and that's what worries me. Perfectly normal, especially if you've "been together" since early on in high school. "Options" obtain to both of you, as does educational, socio-economic and financial independence. Here's a novel suggestion. Make a pact now that, if you're together and still love each other when you're 30, he'll propose and you'll have the dream wedding (or not) you want. I'll bet, if you're still together when you're 30, you'll likely already be married and have kids. But, then again, who knows Your job, in the meantime, is to focus on your education and relationship; forget about what others are doing and what might be "expected" of you. Send out signals of support and companionship. Guys really do pick up on this stuff.
ipetree Posted November 29, 2008 Posted November 29, 2008 Yup, things work both ways, of course. But: i've just never, ever, hear anybody complain that "women are afraid of commitment/being averse to marriage"... hence the emphasis on male perspective. So, I think that I'm onto something here. Exactly.. The institution of marriage does have many positive benefits for men, however I do not feel they yearn for it nearly as much as women. If anything men would be just as happy without a commitment. Or if they could have a series of long term girlfriends mixed in with short term. The nesting instinct between men and women is not the same. Also, this new hybrid form of marriage does not have as many benefits for men. Ok, so I still work, still cook for myself, also have to worry about your job and career, whom you might be meeting at work, walking on egg shells because you can leave at anytime to take the kids and house? While only agreeing to one sexual partner?
Author MusicChick24 Posted November 29, 2008 Author Posted November 29, 2008 So last night after I pried myself away from the Loveshack Forums I ate dinner and sat down to watch TV with my mom. My baby came to the door at 10:30 PM after he got off work with a Ponsettia he bought me. I take it to my room and he decides to stay for a bit. I know he's tired so I avoid having a serious discussion, and instead as we are cuddling begin talking about Christmas gifts. I ask lightly "What would you do if I bought you a ring and proposed to you myself." and he said "I would say no it's too early." And I replied "I didn't say it would be this year, I know it's too early." (He knows I won't buy him a ring for real because he's not much of a ring fella and wouldn't wear a ring until it's a wedding band). He snuggled really close to me and said. "Don't propose to me because I want to be the one to propose." He didn't say he would propose to ME technically indicating that he may be still unsure (given how young we are) about whether I'm the one to marry...but he has now indicated he does want to get married sometime...despite his minor fears. <3
movingonandon Posted November 29, 2008 Posted November 29, 2008 Ok, so I still work, still cook for myself, also have to worry about your job and career, whom you might be meeting at work, walking on egg shells because you can leave at anytime to take the kids and house? While only agreeing to one sexual partner? That pretty much sums it from man's point of view... That's why the marriage is and is supposed to be an institution - not a bad thing! When the institution is undermined - in a very large part because of the increasing imbalance in men-women relationships - then, I don't trust the institution anymore. As I said, this is a fact of life. But at least let's acknowledge the above problems and not just whine "men don't want to commit". (Sorry OP, completely off track your original concern...) Same like with trust in government - when government institutions begin to demand more than what they provide is worth it, things end up either with reecelcion and with severe budget cuts or, less commonly, with a revolution Or with the militaty draft . When the free world was in danger and there was a war for legitimate, noble cause (e.g. WWII), men had no problem being drafted in the army and dying in Europe, the pacific, everywhere. When the war was pretty much frivolous, and badly mismanaged (e.g. Vietnam), all of a sudden we weren't so eager to do the same...
orangehose Posted November 29, 2008 Posted November 29, 2008 Ok, so I still work, still cook for myself, also have to worry about your job and career, whom you might be meeting at work, walking on egg shells because you can leave at anytime to take the kids and house? While only agreeing to one sexual partner? Actually, these are precisely MY feelings on marriage (except for the 'take the kids and house' part)! And I'm a female. I do agree that women seem to have a greater instinctual desire for marriage - but if a woman can get over this feeling, she's well on the way towards complete self-reliance (which is a good thing).
orangehose Posted November 29, 2008 Posted November 29, 2008 I don't trust the institution anymore. As I said, this is a fact of life. Well, yeah, I don't trust the institution anymore either. Just pointing out this isn't a man or woman thing - it's a human thing. I think it's a huge investment of trust for either gender. All that time and effort and money one spends in the marriage, could have been spent on oneself...
orangehose Posted November 29, 2008 Posted November 29, 2008 And to the OP: maybe it would be best to set an internal time limit by which your partner should have proposed. I've unfortunately known a few college relationships that dragged on for years and years until the girl (or sometimes, guy) decided they couldn't wait any longer for the other person to 'decide' if they were the one.
ipetree Posted November 29, 2008 Posted November 29, 2008 Actually, these are precisely MY feelings on marriage (except for the 'take the kids and house' part)! And I'm a female. I do agree that women seem to have a greater instinctual desire for marriage - but if a woman can get over this feeling, she's well on the way towards complete self-reliance (which is a good thing). Never being loved in a romantic way or raising a family, is a good thing? Or would you start a family with a live in boyfriend?
movingonandon Posted November 30, 2008 Posted November 30, 2008 Well, yeah, I don't trust the institution anymore either. Just pointing out this isn't a man or woman thing - it's a human thing. I think it's a huge investment of trust for either gender. All that time and effort and money one spends in the marriage, could have been spent on oneself... Yep, yep, the feelings can be on both sides. but remember, this whole ramble started because of the apparent discrepancy between the willigness to make this investment between both genders... Men seem to me a lot more concerned about commitment to marriage, not women (whereas this does not seem to has been such an issue in the past). That's the only reason the topic is interesting for me. If marriage had evolved in a way that addresses both sides' concerns, we would not have the today's increasing number of men like myself that are increasingly paranoid about marriage. And I am one that WANTS to get married...
Woggle Posted November 30, 2008 Posted November 30, 2008 Chances are if he married you then a few years down the road you will be giving the I love you but I am not in love with you speech. Men are not afraid of marriage but with the walkaway wife thing and the way women treat relationships these days it is too much of a gamble for a man to take.
Humbleman Posted November 30, 2008 Posted November 30, 2008 Marriage to me is the easiest way for someone to lose everything. I have seen what a divorce can and usually does to a man and that is enough to make me see that marriage is just a convenience with sole objective of survival on the cards. Why go it alone, when having someone there is easier?
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