Everyone - Guys especially...

[MusicChick24]

Is it normal that my boy doesn't want to commit to marriage...period. We are in college so it's not like I have proposed to him that we get engaged NOW...however we have casually talked about it over the three years we've been together. His older brother recently got married four months ago to his gf of 7 years. He says that it's not that he doesn't want to marry me just that he is weary of marrying ANYONE. Is this bad? Or am I reading this wrong?

 

Since the two of us are in college we always talk about how our friends in HS were always getting "engaged" and then breaking up...and alot of our friends are getting engaged now...and one of my best friends was married for almost a year and a half and is getting divorced now. Maybe it's just not time. Is it true that with guys that it's all about the timing? I mean alot of girls have told me that he may be set against it and just need more time...give him some years and he'll be ok. Truth?

 

He says he is completely happy with me just has a chip on his shoulder about marriage. His parents are still married but they have a rough relationship, not exactly pleasant, and my parents are divorced. I'm not the kind of girl to give ultimatiums (because I think they are ridiculous) and I would never press the subject with him, we just discuss casually sometimes. And I would NEVER force him to get married (as that is ridiculous too). I wouldn't even ever says "If you don't marry me I'll leave you" like alot of girls I know do.

 

I just wonder if this is normal or something I should watch out for.

 

Some people say if the guy is happy but doesn't have intentions to permanently "settle down" some day that means he wants to keep his options open...and that's what worries me.

[movingonandon]

It's hard to tell in your particular situation, but I can tell you why guys are averse to marriage in general. It is NOT because we do not like the idea of being married - I do, and each and every one of my friends does. BUT, even today, there are many women out there that are "on a mission" to get married, just so they are done with having a family and security etc. - whatever, the point is that for some this is an end in itself, while for most men it is just the cherry on top of an otherwise great relationship. And nobody likes to feel like a vessel/working dog serving a marriage for the sake of it (this is particularly relevant for the women in my age group - 30s+). Hence, the general aversion to marriage, in which many good relationships suffer unnecessarily because of such nagging suspicions, often subconsious. But, basically, you are likely to achieve more by concentrating on having a great relationship, not by nagging about marriage. Good luck, and I do think that it is probably best if people get married in their late 20s.

[MusicChick24]

I understand your point of view. I have a friend that I work with who is in early 30s, who has told me exactly that. He loves women and relationships but he has no desire to give his money to the pocket of his wife. Such a sad stereotype as we all know that not every woman is this way but yes lots are. It is there "mission" as you said.

 

On the positive side my bf knows I'm not that kind of woman...those kind of women are very sad. Sadly my sister in law is like that she is a house wife and my brother has the struggle to work, and bring home money so she can spend it. She's really nice but she does this.

 

I was just wondering if you think he could be afraid or just not mentally/emotionally ready to think about that kind of commitment. He knows I'm not the kind of girl you speak of. I want to get married but not for the reasons of the mission seekers.

[Chivalri]

A lot of young people today tend to distrust marriage, so he could just believe that marriage is an outdated institution and be philosophically against it. Or, he could be serious about you, but not THAT serious.

 

The best way to tell is to get into a deep discussion about his beliefs. How you approach the discussion is important. I would recommend you find a natural time to ask him more about his beliefs, and see what he thinks the ideal long term relationship life commitment should be, how he sees having children later in life in an out of wedlock situation, etc. Have an open and honest discussion, understand his position, and take some time to decide if his life philosophy meshes with your hopes and dreams. He may change his mind the in future, but I wouldn't count on it or make any decisions based on that hope.

[MusicChick24]

I think he will change his mind but I'm not on a mission to change his mind if you know what I mean. I have made it clear to him in the past that I would stay with him with or without marriage. However I think it's important to include that his family as well as him are strong church going christians that believe in the sanctity of marriage etc. And he is very close to his family. Not as momma boyish as he was when he was younger but it's important to him to make his family happy. And for his parents (especially his mom) marriage is a must, and children are next. His brother and his brother's wife don't want to have kids...and it displeased his mother but she got over it. I would like to have kids someday...but he doesn't want them...that would be ok with me.

 

Where do you think the beliefs of his family fall into this? Ultimately his life is his choice. He has told me that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me....but possibly date forever....instead of marrying. I think he just fears the things about marriage anyone would....such as: the chance of failure. Whereas if you aren't married then you just end the relationship and move forth. I can understand that fear.

 

 

What do you think?

[movingonandon]

I understand your point of view. I have a friend that I work with who is in early 30s, who has told me exactly that. He loves women and relationships but he has no desire to give his money to the pocket of his wife. Such a sad stereotype as we all know that not every woman is this way but yes lots are. It is there "mission" as you said.

 

On the positive side my bf knows I'm not that kind of woman...those kind of women are very sad. Sadly my sister in law is like that she is a house wife and my brother has the struggle to work, and bring home money so she can spend it. She's really nice but she does this.

 

I was just wondering if you think he could be afraid or just not mentally/emotionally ready to think about that kind of commitment. He knows I'm not the kind of girl you speak of. I want to get married but not for the reasons of the mission seekers.

 

(well, it's not even about the money per se, just a general concern over the sincerity of the underlying relationship... I do not wish to make generalizations about women, but there are some that don't particularly care who will they marry in the end as long as he fulfils some basic conditions...)

 

Anyway, part of the issue for you may be that both of you seem to be pretty young, in a sense that your future is probably not particularly clear at the moment. Are your professional plans clear? Do you have general idea (on which you agree on) about what do you want to do and where would you live after graduation, the professional opportunities for both of you, your expectations of finances, kids, etc. etc. etc. (depending on your professsion and level of education, it may be amazingly difficult for two people to find fulfilling jobs in the same plac). Taken individually, these considerations seem minor, but taken all together they unfortunately may weigh in quite heavily on how one feels about marriage. I would have married my ex after only 2 years - based on how I felt - but our future was so uncertain and insecure at the time, that I saw no point, and eventually things did fall apart...

 

But, basically don't worry too much. Clarify your mutual expectations, and barring any other unresolver issues, most men would celebrate the idea of a good relationship leading to a marriage...

[Chivalri]

You would be best able to determine how much of a role his family will play in his future decisions - does he defer to them frequently when they tell him their opinion? What has the trend been? Does he tend to listen more or less then he used to? College is a good time to figure out how the future will go with his family. If he rebelled in high school and then came back into the fold during college (when he has likely had some physical distance) he is more likely to be influenced down the line...

 

As for fear of failure, I think that's a cop out. Failure is failure regardless of whether it has been labeled with a 'marriage' sticker or a 'dating' sticker. If he makes the life commitment to you but doesn't want the marriage label, the key question is 'why not'? You owe it to yourself to find out.

[MusicChick24]

(well, it's not even about the money per se, just a general concern over the sincerity of the underlying relationship... I do not wish to make generalizations about women, but there are some that don't particularly care who will they marry in the end as long as he fulfils some basic conditions...)

 

Anyway, part of the issue for you may be that both of you seem to be pretty young, in a sense that your future is probably not particularly clear at the moment. Are your professional plans clear? Do you have general idea (on which you agree on) about what do you want to do and where would you live after graduation, the professional opportunities for both of you, your expectations of finances, kids, etc. etc. etc. (depending on your professsion and level of education, it may be amazingly difficult for two people to find fulfilling jobs in the same plac). Taken individually, these considerations seem minor, but taken all together they unfortunately may weigh in quite heavily on how one feels about marriage. I would have married my ex after only 2 years - based on how I felt - but our future was so uncertain and insecure at the time, that I saw no point, and eventually things did fall apart...

 

But, basically don't worry too much. Clarify your mutual expectations, and barring any other unresolver issues, most men would celebrate the idea of a good relationship leading to a marriage...

 

 

Well yes we are still young, college students with unclear futures and your statement about taking in account jobs etc. Well I'm studying to be a teacher and he is studying to be a Mechanical Engineer. There are both high demands for teachers and engineers at this point even with the uncertain state of the economy so we have taken that into account. As far as where we would live after college not so much. He has expressed his desire to talk about that when we graduate...at this moment he wants to live at home until marriage. That was what his brother did. His brother didn't move in with his fiance until 2-3 months before the wedding.

He has always told me that since my job is pretty much in need anywhere he didn't expect us to have trouble because he could go where he needed and I could find a job wherever we ended up. As far as finances we both expect to have jobs...he would be making about 45-50,000 entering and I would be making about 35-40,000 entering. As of now, he says he doesn't want kids in his future...I would like to have them but I could live happily with him without them.

 

Yes futures are uncertain this is true...we can only hope for the best.

I sometimes feel wierd because I know I want to spend the rest of my life with him and marry him, have his kids etc...but when he worries about the marriage factor I often wonder if its normal or if its me? Everyone has a diff opinion that's why I post = )

 

<3

[ipetree]

Well guys can be a bit hypocritical at times..

 

If someone told my sister those things, I would feel she is being too easy.Of course a man likes to play house, have sex at will, and have a girlfriend without ever having a real commitment.

 

However, if a woman will give me sex and her eternal devotion without ever marrying her, then all the better for me. One day if I am bored, I do a quick and easy trade in. No messy divorce.

 

Let me ask you this.. Lets say he is dating Megan Fox, and she wants to marry him. Will he still say "Well i don't believe in marriage"? Or is he having one eye out to possibly do better? Or somewhere in between? Who knows.

[Isolde]

I'm puzzled. If he's fairly religious and so is his family, and he wants to make his family happy, why doesn't he want to make the relationship, er, official?

 

That being said, I wouldn't be too concerned. You're too young to get married anytime soon in my opinion. If you both truly feel you're the right people for each other, I'd say you could wait a few years before worrying about this.

[MusicChick24]

You would be best able to determine how much of a role his family will play in his future decisions - does he defer to them frequently when they tell him their opinion? What has the trend been? Does he tend to listen more or less then he used to? College is a good time to figure out how the future will go with his family. If he rebelled in high school and then came back into the fold during college (when he has likely had some physical distance) he is more likely to be influenced down the line...

 

As for fear of failure, I think that's a cop out. Failure is failure regardless of whether it has been labeled with a 'marriage' sticker or a 'dating' sticker. If he makes the life commitment to you but doesn't want the marriage label, the key question is 'why not'? You owe it to yourself to find out.

 

 

Well when I met him our freshman year in High school he was a HUGE momma's boy..it wasn't that he referred to them before making a decision it was that he always went by their word. He was raised to never differ from his mom and that was hard from him to break away from. When we graduated high school he grew up ALOT. He got his first job and that was his first step to his own life. He now is able to tell his parents where he is going instead of worrying about where they want him to go etc. Being that he still lives in their house he still has to live by their rules to some extent but he has changed alot.

 

When his brother proposed to his now wife he told his parents first what he was going to do, and his brother was the rebel of the family. He always told me that if he proposed to me he didn't want anyone to know in advance he wanted the thrill of walking in the room and just shouting it out for everyone to know lol.

 

So I'm confused about how much influence they have. It's not as much as before since he's grown up and seperated himself. He wasn't able to have alot of independance till he was making his own money. But he's alot better now!

 

<3

[ipetree]

As far as finances we both expect to have jobs...he would be making about 45-50,000 entering and I would be making about 35-40,000 entering.

 

<3

You do sound very young. I know many people whom have engineering degrees from TOP schools, and they had no luck finding a job, FOR YEARS during a good economy. Not quite that simple..

[MusicChick24]

Well guys can be a bit hypocritical at times..

 

If someone told my sister those things, I would feel she is being too easy.Of course a man likes to play house, have sex at will, and have a girlfriend without ever having a real commitment.

 

However, if a woman will give me sex and her eternal devotion without ever marrying her, then all the better for me. One day if I am bored, I do a quick and easy trade in. No messy divorce.

 

Let me ask you this.. Lets say he is dating Megan Fox, and she wants to marry him. Will he still say "Well i don't believe in marriage"? Or is he having one eye out to possibly do better? Or somewhere in between? Who knows.

 

 

That's what I wonder. We don't sleep together. At his choice. So I don't really know he always says "I'll have sex when I get married" and alludes to a future but at the same time has cold feet. Is this wierd?

[MusicChick24]

You do sound very young. I know many people whom have engineering degrees from TOP schools, and they had no luck finding a job, FOR YEARS during a good economy. Not quite that simple..

 

 

Well I'm going by the fact that it's been all over the TV the dire need for Engineers right now.

[MusicChick24]

I'm puzzled. If he's fairly religious and so is his family, and he wants to make his family happy, why doesn't he want to make the relationship, er, official?

 

That being said, I wouldn't be too concerned. You're too young to get married anytime soon in my opinion. If you both truly feel you're the right people for each other, I'd say you could wait a few years before worrying about this.

 

 

I don't know. That's where it gets confusing. I think possibly he's afraid of the "forever factor" that I stated above. If you get married and it fails you have to go through a messy divorce whereas if you are in a relationship and it fails...you just end it and move forth...

 

But I could be wrong...that's why I ask?

 

But yes we are too young to even get engaged and we know that we just talk about it and sometimes I wonder. I would like to spend my life with him.

[ipetree]

Well I'm going by the fact that it's been all over the TV the dire need for Engineers right now.

 

Really? What tv show said that? lol Don't believe what you hear on tv. Their might be a dire need for experienced engineers, not college grads with little or no experience. Big difference.

 

Well if he wants to wait for marriage to have sex, seems like he DOES want to get married in the future.

[Chivalri]

That's what I wonder. We don't sleep together. At his choice. So I don't really know he always says "I'll have sex when I get married" and alludes to a future but at the same time has cold feet. Is this wierd?

 

How can he never want to marry you, yet only be physical when married? Something doesn't quite add up....

[MusicChick24]

Really? What tv show said that? lol Don't believe what you hear on tv. Their might be a dire need for experienced engineers, not college grads with little or no experience. Big difference.

 

Well if he wants to wait for marriage to have sex, seems like he DOES want to get married in the future.

 

 

You're right I did miscalculate that they need experienced engineers.

[MusicChick24]

How can he never want to marry you, yet only be physical when married? Something doesn't quite add up....

 

 

I dont know. This is why I wonder if he is merely confused and/or just unsure of what he wants at this point.

[movingonandon]

Well guys can be a bit hypocritical at times..

 

If someone told my sister those things, I would feel she is being too easy.Of course a man likes to play house, have sex at will, and have a girlfriend without ever having a real commitment.

 

However, if a woman will give me sex and her eternal devotion without ever marrying her, then all the better for me. One day if I am bored, I do a quick and easy trade in. No messy divorce.

 

Let me ask you this.. Lets say he is dating Megan Fox, and she wants to marry him. Will he still say "Well i don't believe in marriage"? Or is he having one eye out to possibly do better? Or somewhere in between? Who knows.

 

No hypocricy here, or if there is one it's mutual - what prevents a woman having the exact same cynical attitude - "I play house, have sex, he takes me out, I like him, but do i "like, like" him? WHy should I commit to marriege instead of being able to walk away"

 

Or, what about the "walkaway wives"? As in: "Kids are out to college, i don't need you anymore. I'm talking half the household and moving downtown to have fun. 40 is the new 20!"

 

I just realised that the whole feminazzi movement may have played a bit cruel joke on women (when it comes to marriage): I've never heard guys in the 1950s or earlier being averse to marriage and commitment !!!

 

 

To translate it to you in your own cynical terms: "Well, if it is so easy for you girl to get out the marriage commitment on your terms alone whenever you please and/or screw around before/during/and after, I am a lot less willing to enter said commitment in the first place!"

[ipetree]

No hypocricy here, or if there is one it's mutual - what prevents a woman having the exact same cynical attitude - "I play house, have sex, he takes me out, I like him, but do i "like, like" him? WHy should I commit to marriege instead of being able to walk away"

 

Or, what about the "walkaway wives"? As in: "Kids are out to college, i don't need you anymore. I'm talking half the household and moving downtown to have fun. 40 is the new 20!"

 

What prevents a woman from having that attitude? Typically the fact that they are female. Usually they seek security. Women give birth to children. Men do not.

 

And in your example, since she was married, she was able to take half the house. If she paid for it or not.

[movingonandon]

What prevents a woman from having that attitude? Typically the fact that they are female. Usually they seek security. Women give birth to children. Men do not.

 

And in your example, since she was married, she was able to take half the house. If she paid for it or not.

 

 

Well, and that's exactly the problem, and the joke on women --> more independence and choices automatically diminish the likelihood of marriage. Before the self-righteous uproar in response to this happens, let me elaborate. It is a huge misconception that women used to have "no power" - give me a break - sexual power, reproductive power - i.e. controlling two of the defining aspects of being human... So, at the risk of angering the contemporary women here, things were actually a bit more balanced in a way in the past. Now they still have all the original sexual powers, do not need the marriage, yet still want it because apparently it isn't all bad... But: It is a lot easier for a man to feel truly in love and devoted to a woman if he knows that she has had limited or no interactions with other men, and is indeed foreign to the idea of "looking around" or "experimenting". It is very sad that this dynamics is typically interpreted as "opression"...

 

Conversely, it is a lot harder for a man to feel devoted to and in love with a woman today, when he knows that she's most likely "playing the field", or, if they're married, that there is a great chance that she will be easily tempted to drop him like a hot potato the second the marriage experiences its first hardship --> easily, with no hassles at all AND with half of his estate. So, we like women as much as we did in the past, it is just a lot harder to love them and be truly devoted to them. And, contrary to the popular myths, this is actually what a lot of men want. (And if somebody interprets this as "insecurity", well, they just didn't actually read what i just wrote.)

 

So, I'm not complaining, and play the game just as anybody else here. All I'm saying is that men today need a lot more convincing that a marriage is not going to be a huge mistake than they needed in the past, that's all.

 

PS So what if men don't give birth? Are you saying that fathers are less devoted to their children than mothers? Oh, wait, when a woman walks out, she usually gets to keep both half the estate and the children... - because guys don't care, I presume...

[orangehose]

Well, and that's exactly the problem, and the joke on women --> more independence and choices automatically diminish the likelihood of marriage.

 

 

Well, if independence means a lower chance of ever marrying, I'd rather take the independence. Movingonandon, what you're saying about women who 'bail ship' as soon as the marriage hits a hard place could just as well apply to men. A good number of men have affairs when their wives grow old, claiming mid-life crises or whatnot.

 

As a woman, I'd rather have a fulfilling career that enables me to be financially and emotionally independent, thus allowing me to leave a marriage in case this happens. Back in the day when this happened, women would have no choice but to watch their husbands take on mistresses and such. Now, yes, women can bail ship because they have the financial means to do so - but that's a good thing!

 

Anyway, I just wanted to show that things go both ways... As long as humans of both sexes aren't completely monogamous, it is to the advantage of both sexes to be economically independent. I can only feel grateful to feminism for levelling that playing field, even if it's made men more reluctant to marry.

[Morgenstern]

Idk. You should know by now after being together for 3 years if you will want to IMO. If he doesnt know by now I would start to worry a little.

[orangehose]

Sorry, ignored the OP's post - in your case, yes, you two are very young, but if he is from as conservative a background as you indicate, it's a bit strange that he isn't more marriage-minded. Time to have an open conversation with him...