Reggie Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 This is very accurate. There are myriad examples of the state getting involved in interpersonal issues. Constitution shoots down some of the interference. But, if the state has a compelling interest it can curtail lots of personal freedom, within limits.
Geishawhelk Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 I'm sorry. Remind me again what is TJ....?
jwi71 Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 TJ = Threadjack Or maybe we aren't so close. Anyways.
Stockalone Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 Your post got me thinking. I realized that I'd be more scared to be with a man who seems emotionally stable but threatens very ugly retaliations in case I cheat (or do anything else that would hurt him), than to be with a very emotional and apparently unstable man who is more likely to actually "snap". I think I understand what you mean. That you are frightened by the thought that someone that is supposed to love you, could be capable of threatening your life, calmly planning how and when to kill you and even going through with it if you break the rules. I, on the other hand, don't have a problem with that. I don't even think that all people who are like this are emotionally unstable. They can be emotionally unstable or they can simply be steadfast and unrelenting as far as their convictions are concerned. I wonder whether the most effective threat would actually work to the benefit of the person making it. If I were very, very insecure I'd start wondering whether the only reason my partner has not cheated on me is fear of the consequences. Not exactly the kind of doubt that improves your life quality. I don't believe you can stop someone from cheating if he/she wants to do it. Making the consequences known is, from my point of view, an attempt to make those who are on the fence, think twice about cheating or not. Obviously, making such a threat is not a feasible option for someone who is insecure and only bluffs. If someone makes that threat, he has to be prepared to own up to his word and actually do it. One threat I would rather make or receive is "I will [insert something horrible here] if you cheat on me and don't tell me about it straight away". That would reduce the penalty for my gf or wife. In that case, a break-up or divorce is sufficient. However, the guy having the affair with my gf or wife, would have to pay for his part in the affair. As long as I am alive, there is no way that I would let him walk away from it unharmed. Btw, it is fair to add that my perspective is not unbiased. I have never cheated on my own partners, but I am engaged in an affair. I am biased too. I have been tempted to kill someone before but never to cheat. So while I can relate to the longing for justice (whether or not you take revenge is a different matter), I can't relate to the people who have affairs (regardless of their gender or what their role in the affair is).
2sure Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 At the end of a previous relationship - he was cheating. We were at the very end and the cheating was almost a relief to me because I really couldn't stand him anymore. I wanted him to leave the house we shared, but he just wouldnt move out. After I caught him cheating I told him I was thinking dark thoughts: "I'm feeling very strange. I dont know if its the stress or what. I'm not sure but....I have been thinking about killing you while you sleep." He left that night. Slept in his car until he found a place.
jwi71 Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 2Sure- That's brilliant. I'm not sure if its meant to be funny or humorous, but that's awesome - I can't get this Cheshire Grin off my face. Simply awesome - made my day right there.
pelicanpreacher Posted November 27, 2008 Posted November 27, 2008 At the end of a previous relationship - he was cheating. We were at the very end and the cheating was almost a relief to me because I really couldn't stand him anymore. I wanted him to leave the house we shared, but he just wouldnt move out. After I caught him cheating I told him I was thinking dark thoughts: "I'm feeling very strange. I dont know if its the stress or what. I'm not sure but....I have been thinking about killing you while you sleep." He left that night. Slept in his car until he found a place. Isn't it funny 2sure that when you lay out the options available for the cheater in the way you did it brings home just how serious the repercussions of they're betrayal is liable to be. Even those die hard advocates of infidelity cannot deny that when life and limb is on the line their healthier bet is to go sleep in the car!
InLimbo2 Posted November 27, 2008 Posted November 27, 2008 Um, in those cultures sex is not better with your husband, it's not even fun - girls are subject to genital mutilation before puberty - their clitoris is cut out with a knife and their vaginal lips are cut and then sewn together so they grow together - their wedding night their new husband cuts them back open so he can consummate the marriage. You will be expected to hold down your daughters to have the same done to them. If for some reason your husband even suspects you are not a virgin, your own father/brother/male relatives will kill you. If you are ever raped, you will be killed for committing adultery (look up the recent 13yo that was killed in a stadium with 1000 spectators for this) Your husband can tire of you and say "I divorce thee" three times and you are now divorced, a disgrace to your family, and an outcast. All property and the children belong to the husband and his family. New brides are frequently killed by their new husband's family - usually under the guise of 'cooking accidents'. You can't leave the house without a male relative. You can't drive. You can't own property. You ARE property - as are your children - of your husband. You can't travel without the written permission of your husband. I kind of do like the separateness of men and women in Muslim cultures. Think about how much better sex with your husband would be without porn, without him getting hit on by women at the office, without him seeing sexier women every where he goes.. You are the only woman he sees. I think adulterers are stoned in certain areas in some of those countries, not sure.
Geishawhelk Posted November 27, 2008 Posted November 27, 2008 Moslems do not habitually subject their women to genital mutilation. It does happen in certain factions of Africal cultures and societies, but has nothing to do with the Islamic religion, per se. It's more a cultural tradition.
InLimbo2 Posted November 27, 2008 Posted November 27, 2008 In the middle east religion is intertwined with all things. And manipulations and interpretations of the Koran are used to justify anything they want. Although some non-muslims do it, many Muslims do and use Islam to justify it. To say it has nothing to do with religion is to be ignorant of the entire culture. It is more prevalent in African nations, but occurs in Saudi, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Turkey, and Indonesia. And those are just the countries where there is solid proof. With the spread of Muslims to other 'western' countries they've had to address the issue and create laws in the US and Europe banning it and giving women trying to escape it sanctuary. Moslems do not habitually subject their women to genital mutilation. It does happen in certain factions of Africal cultures and societies, but has nothing to do with the Islamic religion, per se. It's more a cultural tradition.
You'reasian Posted November 27, 2008 Posted November 27, 2008 You are quite over simplifying a very complex issue. The decline of birthrates and marriage also has a lot to do with being a more developed society. It cost a lot of time and money educate a child until they are the age of about 25 so they can start to be financially independent. Children are more expensive in Europe because you hold onto them for so long. In the states, most kids are out of the house by 18-19 and in college or the military, granted they may not be completely independent from their parents - they are usually living away. Europe has much more lax immigration laws too - which is why there are so many foreigners entering and claiming religious/political assylum or what have you. I would not equate being a more developed society as the sole reason for declining birthrate, since lax immigration and decline of the nuclear will ultimately lead to what ipetree was saying.
Dexter Morgan Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Death penalty for infidelity? I think thats a bit extreme;) But I think there should be some legal repurcussions to infidelity. Such as, the cheater shouldn't be able to dictate terms of custody. Someone unscrupulous shouldn't be the one to dictate whether they are the custodial parent. I also think there should be an implied pre-nup to marriage. You cheat, and it can be proven, you forfiet your right to 1/2 the marital assets, or get a reduced share.
Owl Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 I LIKE that idea, Dex. You cheat, you leave with NOTHING but the clothes on your back. Immediate forfeit of all rights to alimony/support, marital assets, etc... I don't agree with the death penalty concept (although I will also admit that I seriously considered "removing" OM from the picture in a very permanent manner). But, suffering the loss of all those years of investment...makes very good sense to me.
OWoman Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 In the middle east religion is intertwined with all things. And manipulations and interpretations of the Koran are used to justify anything they want. Although some non-muslims do it, many Muslims do and use Islam to justify it. To say it has nothing to do with religion is to be ignorant of the entire culture. It is more prevalent in African nations, but occurs in Saudi, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Turkey, and Indonesia. And those are just the countries where there is solid proof. With the spread of Muslims to other 'western' countries they've had to address the issue and create laws in the US and Europe banning it and giving women trying to escape it sanctuary. Sorry, I know this is o/t but I can't let this ignorant claim pass without comment! I'm well acquainted with Islam in Africa, as an African from a country where Islam is at least as old as Christianity. I probably have more Muslim friends than Christian ones, though I can't be certain as religion is a big non-issue and does NOT permeate everything as claimed. I'm not religious myself, but have more respect for Islam than for Christianity which has caused so much bloodshed, oppression and terror over the centuries. That aside, FGM is not routinely practiced by Muslims across Africa, it is restricted to a narrow band of countries where it is as likely to be practiced by Christians or believers of indigenous religions as it is by Muslims. It is motivated by fear and superstition, the same way chinese girls' feet were bound until last century, the same way that christian girls were forbidden to wash their hair when menstruating, the same way Judaism considers a woman unclean until a week after menstruating and the same way that Zulu men don't have sex with their wives after childbirth until the child is weaned as they believe they will be rendered impotent by the breastmilk. It has nothing to do with religion, though no doubt some people claim that it does, the same way that black people were murdered in the south of the USA in the name of religion, or people slain in Northern Ireland in the name of religion, or entire cultures wiped out in Africa, South America and colonies all over the world, in the name of religion. sorry, touchy subject for me. I'm tired of seeing Islam demonised by people who spend too much time watching Fox News.
Wozzie Posted December 2, 2008 Posted December 2, 2008 When I confessed to my husband, I have to be honest that I worried about being killed in my sleep or something. Those were long, scary nights.
Dexter Morgan Posted December 2, 2008 Posted December 2, 2008 I LIKE that idea, Dex. You cheat, you leave with NOTHING but the clothes on your back. Immediate forfeit of all rights to alimony/support, marital assets, etc... Well, the clothes on their backs and the assets they owned before the marriage. but there should be some consequences.
Dexter Morgan Posted December 2, 2008 Posted December 2, 2008 When I confessed to my husband, I have to be honest that I worried about being killed in my sleep or something. Those were long, scary nights. Why? Was he so angry that veins popped out of his head? If you were that scared, why didn't you leave the house?
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