shadowplay Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Let's say you find somebody fairly physically attractive but are turned off by some aspect of their personality. You think they're a good person, but something about their behavior toward you in the past irked you. Basically you decided at some point that they are lame, desperate, and made up your mind not to encourage them further. Let's also say you don't know this person very well and this is mostly based on a few brief encounters. Are there any lengths said person could go to change your mind? Keep in mind this is merely hypothetical and completely impractical. Let's say they wrote a short story for you that was literally one of the best things you had ever written, they composed a brilliant piece of music in your honor, painted a masterpiece that could be hung in a museum. Would anything like this convince you to give them another chance? Also state your gender. Sometimes when I've thought about someone who rejected me in the past I fantasize about having a huge amount of talent and bowling them over with some magnificent piece of art. But I also wonder if even this would work. I think it might for a guy trying to win over a girl, but I feel like guys don't care about whether a girl is talented or not.
Geishawhelk Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Brilliant art is always the product of a slightly unbalanced mind. It's an outlet of genious for someone who often, "in Civvy street" is absolutely intolerable. I don't know one artist or writer, who doesn't have some hang-up of one kind or another. It would depend on many things for me (female) but - and i could be wrong - I think women in general, find it less of an ordeal to stay with someone extreme. Even to their own detriment and suffering at times. The other thing to remember is that for reasons which completely escape me, there are very few prominent, passionate overwhelmingly ingenious women artists/writers/musicians. So I think this question hinges more from a woman's perspective than a man's simply because such people - as women - are outnumbered.
Trialbyfire Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 I've never changed my mind about someone who was lame and desperate. I did change my mind once with my ex-H about him being a complete arsehole, after two years of pursuit. My mistake. I won't make that one again. Gender: Female
carhill Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Basically you decided at some point that they are lame, desperate, and made up your mind not to encourage them further. Let's also say you don't know this person very well and this is mostly based on a few brief encounters. Are there any lengths said person could go to change your mind? Keep in mind this is merely hypothetical and completely impractical. I'd have to see consistent behavioral changes which I found to be compatible and not from any impetus regarding myself. IOW, their inspiration would have to come from within. Male
Stockalone Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Are there any lengths said person could go to change your mind? Keep in mind this is merely hypothetical and completely impractical. No, not really. Changing my mind is basically impossible. If I am still in the process of assessing/judging a person, my opinion can be swayed, but that doesn't happen very often. Let's say they wrote a short story for you that was literally one of the best things you had ever written, they composed a brilliant piece of music in your honor, painted a masterpiece that could be hung in a museum. Would anything like this convince you to give them another chance? I am not an artsy person, so I probably wouldn't be able to fully appreciate/comprehend this honour. Also state your gender. Male.
zhsoj Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Successful persuasion tactic ugly woman would need to take to change my mind: take off clothes.
fral945 Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Real life example from me: I had a girl I briefly dated (maybe 5 or 6 times) about a year or so ago who was physically attractive, though somewhat overweight at the time. However, the biggest problem for me was that she smoked, partied a lot, was overbearing, and exhibited a complete lack of self-control in her life. Everything about her personality and lifestyle seemed chaotic and dramatic. She called me back up about a month ago (trying to rekindle something I assume) and told me she had lost 20 lbs, quit drinking, started exercising, and was going to school full time. Then she started asking me if I was seeing anybody. All I could think of when she called was the overbearing personality and the out of control behavior. No matter how great she was otherwise or how much she had improved, that fact was enough for me to say "no thanks". I think people can and do change, it's just a matter of whether or not the changes are permanent and if you are willing to wait around for them to happen. In my example, I don't believe her changes were permanent. She was too young and too fickle to risk trying to develop something again. Gender: Male
D-Jam Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Are there any lengths said person could go to change your mind? 99% of the time it's a big "no". Most of my examples are women who rejected me in the past to chase bad boys, and most of these women couldn't even be honest and upfront with me. Like Bells' stories, I'd ask them out, get a yes with no hard plans, call them the day I'm supposed to make the finite plans, and they vanish on me forever...plus show up weeks to months later with some other guy they call "boyfriend". I'm not bitter about the rejection, but I also know this woman then is someone I can't trust nor respect, especially when her choices in men end up destroying her life in some way, shape, or form. I've had some of these women "come around" and suddenly want to try with me...but most of the time it was clear that their "change of heart" was because they got knocked up by some douche and were out of options. Knocked up or not, you won't change my mind. Games are played, I was blown off, she flaked out, I don't care...anything that wasn't an honest and polite rejected gets that woman into my "No Way (for life)" list. Same deal with someone who from the start has a personality, lifestyle, or physical appearance that just turns me off. She could change, but I'd be very reluctant simply because I believe if someone is totally doing a 180 on their life to "get me", then I'd wonder if this is real change, or a desperate act to trick me. So if the girl who weighed 300 lbs and had a very strange and insecure personality came on to me, but I politely and respectfully rejected her...then she comes back a year later still with the strange and insecure personality, but now she's got the body of a model, it won't change my mind. If she came back in 10 years with a more confident personality and the body of a model, then I'd think about it. If she showed up with another guy, then I'd be happy for her. No lie. I think for me, I've had too many people try to change my mind in my life, too many who try to push me to settle in life on many matters...that I just would rather be strong and call things on my own personal set of rules. (when it involves my life)
prettybaby Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Well, if I already found them lame, then they'd have to do something completely out of their character for me to reconsider them. Something brave and selfless and romantic. Something to impress me that takes guts. I can't come up with a clear example though lol In the hypothetical situation you're describing, I wouldn't know that person very well yet; so I guess it wouldn't be necessary for them to completely change their whole personality. I'm female.
Author shadowplay Posted November 25, 2008 Author Posted November 25, 2008 This confirms my belief that people will usually stick to their first impression of somebody in the face of almost any opposing evidence. But what if somebody genuinely does change? Or you found out you were wrong about them to begin with? Again, I'm talking about a situation where you had very little interaction with the person but your one interaction left you with an impression that they were insecure and desperate (but not a bad person). If you met them several years later and they seemed much more confident would you still not give them a chance?
Author shadowplay Posted November 25, 2008 Author Posted November 25, 2008 I've never changed my mind about someone who was lame and desperate. I did change my mind once with my ex-H about him being a complete arsehole, after two years of pursuit. My mistake. I won't make that one again. Gender: Female But how do you know people can't change if you never give them the chance to prove you wrong?
Adunaphel Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 I have no problem with changing my mind, but it would take to get to know the person better, which is something I would not be inclined to try doing if my first impression was a bad one. No work of art would impress me - I'd think he is great artists, too bad he is lame and desperate. If someone whose judgement I trust told me he is a wonderful person, I might get curious, though. If the person surprised me with something I do not associate with lameness and desperation, even better.
Author shadowplay Posted November 25, 2008 Author Posted November 25, 2008 I have no problem with changing my mind, but it would take to get to know the person better, which is something I would not be inclined to try doing if my first impression was a bad one. No work of art would impress me - I'd think he is great artists, too bad he is lame and desperate. If someone whose judgement I trust told me he is a wonderful person, I might get curious, though. If the person surprised me with something I do not associate with lameness and desperation, even better. What's an example of the kind of thing that might sway you?
Isolde Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 It can and does happen. Chemistry is a strange thing and can appear where it wasn't there before, and I suppose in rare cases one could even do things to encourage that chemistry to develop, by manifesting a strong (yet sane) desire to date someone. Obviously the line between that and coming on too strong/desperate is extremely narrow. Honestly, weirder things can happen in life than what you're suggesting, shadowplay. GeishaWhelk, I have to say (as an amateur writer myself) that you are right--women are terribly underrepresented in the ranks of the great writers. I'm pretty sure it's not due to innate talent; I think there's something else in the way. Virginia Woolf wrote a book about this problem, "A Room Of One's Own," but I didn't find that an adequate explanation. Whether one can create art and still be sane--well, there are some out there, so it's definitely not impossible.
Trialbyfire Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 But how do you know people can't change if you never give them the chance to prove you wrong? There's no need for them to prove anything to me. They are who they are during each part of their lives. It turns me off if someone is trying to prove themselves to me. Better they just be themselves and if something happens, it does. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I got into a short situation where it felt like I had to prove myself. Never, ever again. It was the worst feeling in the world. Attraction can't be explained through a mathematical formula or some great accomplishment. The spark will either be there or not.
Adunaphel Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 What's an example of the kind of thing that might sway you? If I got irked by average, innocuous 'lame' behaviour (of the kind which is embarassing if you are on the receiving end of it, but could be explained with shyness or bad social skills), seeing the person interact with other people (or with me) in a very normal way could do. If it was stalkerish or creepy behaviour, I'd be more wary, so he/she should really look emotionally healty and act like a very different person. If I had been a b*tch to them when I considered them lame, though, I might be willing to give them another chance but too ashamed about having avoided them to give *myself* another chance to get to know them better.
fral945 Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 But what if somebody genuinely does change? Or you found out you were wrong about them to begin with? Again, I'm talking about a situation where you had very little interaction with the person but your one interaction left you with an impression that they were insecure and desperate (but not a bad person). If you met them several years later and they seemed much more confident would you still not give them a chance? It would depend on several factors: 1) Age - older people tend to have the most trouble breaking bad habits because their habits are more ingrained. I'd be willing to give more of a break to someone that was younger at the time. 2) Degree - If the degree of their insecurity and desperation was high, no. If they seemed somewhat insecure or desperate but have changed, then yes 3) Evidence - What is their life like now? Are they rehashing the same problems that caused the separation in the first place? Or do they actually have a handle on the situation or have minimized the issues? I don't think it's realistic to expect to find someone that has it all together or that can keep it all together their whole lives. But as long as the degree of their problems are not that great and there aren't too many there is always potential.
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