How can I NOT be clingy with by WW ?

[65tr6]

Here is my story that I had posted few weeks ago about my wife's affair with OM

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t169074/

 

I feel better now - the shock is gone and the constant crying is getting better but not over yet. I am not overcome with self pity anymore. I have moments of anger and lots of emotional lows in a given day but I am able do things i have done before. More importantly I am slowly but steadily gaining my pride and self-respect back.

 

I have not started counselling yet but reading up a lot and it is helping. Also trying to guide from my wife out of the fog. She is very remorseful but at the same time still very confused.

 

In my case, I felt that I lost someone very close to me. They say loss of companionship can be compared to a death. I find myself clinging on to my wife more often for that exact same reason than in the past. It obviously makes her very uncomfortable. And my thinking is I am doing this because i need a shoulder to cry on during this grief and cant help clinging on to her. Hope it gets better.

 

I would like to hear from others, especially, WWs in similar situations who can give me pointers as to what can i do/dont do to make her feel that i am not clinging on to her. (besides not putting my arms around her in the bed. lol).

 

Thanks for reading this and letting me vent.

 

Some notes : She is now ex-WW ?

The affair is ended for now. Dont think it will ever surface again

We are in recovery but not decided yet (I want her back but she is confused) and are taking one day at a time

[jwi71]

. More importantly I am slowly but steadily gaining my pride and self-respect back.

 

No you haven't. Because you have been labeled as clingy by your WW and you believe her. Sorry but a person who wants the presence of another doesn't label them as clingy. Especially if she cheated and is wanting to return and rebuild. Think about it.

 

I have not started counselling yet but reading up a lot and it is helping. Also trying to guide from my wife out of the fog. She is very remorseful but at the same time still very confused.

Why haven't you started MC yet? I'm sorry but you CANNOT be her counselor and H. You CANNOT guide her out of the fog. She has to walk out on her own. A neutral third party trained counselor can help, provided she is willing. But no way, no how can the BS guide the WS out of the fog because the BS is part of the problem from the WW perspective.

 

In my case, I felt that I lost someone very close to me. They say loss of companionship can be compared to a death. I find myself clinging on to my wife more often for that exact same reason than in the past. It obviously makes her very uncomfortable. And my thinking is I am doing this because i need a shoulder to cry on during this grief and cant help clinging on to her. Hope it gets better.

 

I would like to hear from others, especially, WWs in similar situations who can give me pointers as to what can i do/dont do to make her feel that i am not clinging on to her. (besides not putting my arms around her in the bed. lol).

BS like yourself. Like you said, revelation is pure hell. I have never gone through anything as devastating. It is like the death of a loved one. Worse.

 

Your W's actions are not good. Its a bad sign imo. My wife was able to clear her head in about two weeks after 4 MC sessions and an IC each. Yes, 6 sessions in two weeks. And how many months and she is still in the fog? The fog is indecision. She still doesn't know who to choose - you or him.

 

And calling you clingy should be alarming. The fact that you ceded control over reconciliation is equally bad. It is not up to you to prove less clingy but for her to prove worthy. She has turned it around and you let her. The person doing the "heavy lifting" is the spouse who broke the M (her) - not you.

 

Some notes : She is now ex-WW ?

The affair is ended for now. Dont think it will ever surface again

We are in recovery but not decided yet (I want her back but she is confused) and are taking one day at a time

One more time - confusion over what? Confused over which man to choose. That means at least part of her thoughts are for him. And you cannot recovery your M while she is pining for him. And making you "beg" to save the M. Then calling you clingy because you are trying - and she is not.

 

Go to MC. I see nothing but red flags here.

[65tr6]

jw. some clarifications. I am not guiding her out of the fog. I stand corrected. We are doing lot of reading together. She has IC. I have plans of IC myself followed by MC for both. Right now, she is not in a position to choose which way she wants to go.

 

We are in recovery but that has NOTHING to do with our final decision. The final decision will come later. One month from now, two months from now, I have no idea. It is going to be slow painful process. It could a year before we start seeing anything come out of this.

 

The affair was admitted only few weeks ago. Realistically, what are you expecting ? For her to change mind and committ herself in a matter of weeks ? No way. I dont think i want to see that so quickly. I want to be convinced that she wants back too. Right now, she does not. Does not mean she wants to go with the OM. She said she does not want to. Quite different from what she said on the d-day. Isnt that a classifc case of "confusion" ?

[jwi71]

jw. some clarifications. I am not guiding her out of the fog. I stand corrected. We are doing lot of reading together. She has IC. I have plans of IC myself followed by MC for both. Right now, she is not in a position to choose which way she wants to go.

 

Just so you know, IC is for the individual and not the M. If the T believes the client (your W) is better served divorced, then that is what the IC will suggest and recommend. That's her T, not your T. Likewise, your IC may suggest that you get divorced for your benefit. An MC will work with you jointly to resolve the issues and determine if the union can and should be saved. Two ICs does not equal MC. Sorry but that is two individuals seeking help and not a marriage seeking help.

 

We are in recovery but that has NOTHING to do with our final decision. The final decision will come later. One month from now, two months from now, I have no idea. It is going to be slow painful process. It could a year before we start seeing anything come out of this.

You set a timetable you can live with. So, what can you live with?

 

The affair was admitted only few weeks ago. Realistically, what are you expecting ? For her to change mind and committ herself in a matter of weeks ? No way. I dont think i want to see that so quickly. I want to be convinced that she wants back too. Right now, she does not. Does not mean she wants to go with the OM. She said she does not want to. Quite different from what she said on the d-day. Isnt that a classifc case of "confusion" ?

We will have to disagree. How is it unrealstic for you to demand that your W fully and wholly commit to saving the M now? Like I said, and we disagree, but fog is indecision. The fog isn't that she wants to return to the OM but whether or not to stay married to you.

 

How can she prove her worth to you? What convincing do you need? What proof will trigger the "Now I am certain she wants back" thoughts? And, uh, when?

 

Conversely, what would tell you that she has decided to bail? How long will you go with little or no progress?

[reservoirdog1]

You MUST stop being "clingy" towards her. That's easier said than done, I realize -- since learning of her cheating, you've felt like a drowning man, thrashing about, looking for anything to hold onto to keep from going under. Up until you learned the truth, the thing to hold onto in tough times was her. You're simply not used to having to find something else to hold onto, and you're retreating to what's familiar.

 

But you must stop being clingy, because right now she finds that unattractive and it will only succeed in driving her further away and making her less interested in fixing what she wrecked.

 

So how do you stop being clingy? By taking steps to "reinvent" yourself, starting right now. Start exercising, if you don't already. If you already do, take up a new form of exercise or recreational sport. (Boxing is fantastic right now -- there are few things that will simultaneously channel your sadness, turn it into anger, and give your a great workout.) Lose some weight and get in shape. Get an updated haircut. Get a few new, cool-looking items of clothing. Make plans to get together with friends a few evenings a week, without her. If they're newer friends that she doesn't really know, so much the better. Take up a new hobby -- something that would be interesting and a bit sexy from her point of view. Rock climbing. If you ski, learn to snowboard, or vice versa. Learn to play the guitar. Get involved in amateur theatre. If you don't have a tattoo and have considered getting one, get it now. And when you make plans to do any of these things, DON'T check with her to see if it's okay. Present it to her as a fait accompli: "just so you know, I'm out on Tuesday night and Friday night." Leave it for her to inquire about what you're doing, and answer her questions matter-of-factly, giving her enough info so that she knows what you're doing, but keeping it ever so slightly vague so that it sounds interesting and a bit mysterious.

 

The reason you're doing all this is that your goal is to, as I said, reinvent yourself. The woman you thought you knew is dead, and the cheater you're living with is what's left. Such, too, should be the fate of the "old you". The motive behind reinventing yourself is to subtly keep her "off balance" -- not knowing what to expect from you. (One way you'll know it's working is if you tell her you'll be doing X, and she says "I had no idea you were interested in that." Silently chalk that up as a victory.) Right now she thinks she knows you really well, that you'll always be there, regardless of how long it takes or how noncommittal she acts. You need to shatter that security. You need to become a guy who's got a lot going on, who's jazzed and excited about his new life. The unspoken message lurking in her mind will be "if I leave him, another woman will snap him up the moment I'm gone. I want him." It's the principle of scarcity -- we want what we think we can't have, or what others want.

 

You're NOT doing this for her -- you're doing it for YOU. Armed with your new confidence and life, you'll be in the driver's seat. You want HER fighting to get YOU back -- not the other way around. If she's sincere, and will come back on YOUR terms, that's far more valuable than her choosing to come back just out of guilt or something else weak. If she wants to work it out, YOU set a trial period -- that suggests that she'll be the one having to fight for you. She needs to WANT to come back -- and she needs to be alive to the possibility that you may not want her back. That's what'll keep her in the fight. And if things go according to plan and the two of you make a go of it, whatever you do, DON'T revert to your old self. Remember, that guy's dead and buried. This new, fun, vital, interesting, confident guy has taken his place.

 

And, if things don't work out, at least you'll be re-entering singledom with a busy life full of new interests and possibilities (which will make you that much more appealing to new women, but I know you're not there right now).

 

Hang in there buddy... you can do this. You have untapped reserves of strength and power you weren't even aware of. Start using them.

[travelgirl]

You MUST stop being "clingy" towards her. That's easier said than done, I realize -- since learning of her cheating, you've felt like a drowning man, thrashing about, looking for anything to hold onto to keep from going under. Up until you learned the truth, the thing to hold onto in tough times was her. You're simply not used to having to find something else to hold onto, and you're retreating to what's familiar.

 

But you must stop being clingy, because right now she finds that unattractive and it will only succeed in driving her further away and making her less interested in fixing what she wrecked.

 

So how do you stop being clingy? By taking steps to "reinvent" yourself, starting right now. Start exercising, if you don't already. If you already do, take up a new form of exercise or recreational sport. (Boxing is fantastic right now -- there are few things that will simultaneously channel your sadness, turn it into anger, and give your a great workout.) Lose some weight and get in shape. Get an updated haircut. Get a few new, cool-looking items of clothing. Make plans to get together with friends a few evenings a week, without her. If they're newer friends that she doesn't really know, so much the better. Take up a new hobby -- something that would be interesting and a bit sexy from her point of view. Rock climbing. If you ski, learn to snowboard, or vice versa. Learn to play the guitar. Get involved in amateur theatre. If you don't have a tattoo and have considered getting one, get it now. And when you make plans to do any of these things, DON'T check with her to see if it's okay. Present it to her as a fait accompli: "just so you know, I'm out on Tuesday night and Friday night." Leave it for her to inquire about what you're doing, and answer her questions matter-of-factly, giving her enough info so that she knows what you're doing, but keeping it ever so slightly vague so that it sounds interesting and a bit mysterious.

 

The reason you're doing all this is that your goal is to, as I said, reinvent yourself. The woman you thought you knew is dead, and the cheater you're living with is what's left. Such, too, should be the fate of the "old you". The motive behind reinventing yourself is to subtly keep her "off balance" -- not knowing what to expect from you. (One way you'll know it's working is if you tell her you'll be doing X, and she says "I had no idea you were interested in that." Silently chalk that up as a victory.) Right now she thinks she knows you really well, that you'll always be there, regardless of how long it takes or how noncommittal she acts. You need to shatter that security. You need to become a guy who's got a lot going on, who's jazzed and excited about his new life. The unspoken message lurking in her mind will be "if I leave him, another woman will snap him up the moment I'm gone. I want him." It's the principle of scarcity -- we want what we think we can't have, or what others want.

 

You're NOT doing this for her -- you're doing it for YOU. Armed with your new confidence and life, you'll be in the driver's seat. You want HER fighting to get YOU back -- not the other way around. If she's sincere, and will come back on YOUR terms, that's far more valuable than her choosing to come back just out of guilt or something else weak. If she wants to work it out, YOU set a trial period -- that suggests that she'll be the one having to fight for you. She needs to WANT to come back -- and she needs to be alive to the possibility that you may not want her back. That's what'll keep her in the fight. And if things go according to plan and the two of you make a go of it, whatever you do, DON'T revert to your old self. Remember, that guy's dead and buried. This new, fun, vital, interesting, confident guy has taken his place.

 

And, if things don't work out, at least you'll be re-entering singledom with a busy life full of new interests and possibilities (which will make you that much more appealing to new women, but I know you're not there right now).

 

Hang in there buddy... you can do this. You have untapped reserves of strength and power you weren't even aware of. Start using them.

 

Wow - great advice!

 

To the OP, I was doing the same thing to my H after I initially found out he was having an EA with a co-worker. I just wanted things to be the same, especially for our daughter. It was like I was frantic and drowning. After a few weeks, I settled down and realized "why the heck am I fighting for him??" It was backfiring on me as well. He was making changes but SLOWLY and me wanting to talk all the time was annoying him. He wasn't ready. So, I asked him to move out until we figure out what we want and he needs to make changes. I just knew the path I was taking wasn't right. I knew my emotions were so crazy that I didn't even know what I wanted.

 

So, he is off at a hotel. I paid a personal trainer, explained the situation and said "even if I am depressed and don't want to work out, MAKE ME!" It has been great. I also signed onto Facebook to catch up with old friends I have lost touch with and to make me remember, that I am my own person - and a good one at that - even without him. I stopped the WE and started to do ME. I have done a few wine nights with friends at the house. I go places, even with our couple friends, with just my daughter and myself. I was the one that always made the plans so no one ever contacts him. I just say he is busy (we haven't told anyone yet - I only told his mom.)

 

I can honestly tell you, the first week after he moved out felt worse then when he was here and I was so sad and I thought I made a mistake. But then the past 4-5 days I have really recovered well and have turned more independent, don't cling at all - as a matter of fact, I don't call at all. He has since started calling and texting me more. Asking me to dinner and now he wants to talk - he wants to know what I am thinking. Well I am not talking much. I said you call a MC if you want to talk. We had our first MC session (he called) last Friday and he really opened up. We went out to dinner on Saturday but then I said I needed to leave and meet up with friends. I think he thought of coming home with me and was a little surprised. Things are changing and to be honest, even if the ball goes all the way in my court, I am not 100% sure I want him back. It is a MUCH better feeling to have. That said, I know my emotions are in a roller-coaster now so I will continue with MC and treating him with respect. I won't lower myself to his level.

 

So, I agree with the above posting 100%. Do it for yourself as hard as it is. Do things you have always wanted to do but didn't because of the wife or just because you were a husband. Obviously don't date/sleep with anyone but everything else is fair game.

 

Good Luck!

[65tr6]

you guys rock...resorvoir and travelgirl. That's exactly what i was looking for.

 

Yes i feel like calling her everyday at work. She does not call me. She wants to be left alone. Great great advice on the MC. I asked her the other day and she said she is not ready. What the f$#$. If she is not ready, why should i be, right ?

 

It will be extremely difficult for me not to be clingy BUT i shall phsyche myself out of it. You know, it is easier said than done, right ?

 

The biggest thing i heard travelgirl say is stop with the WE and replace with ME. wow, great one.

 

 

Questions

 

1) What about SF ? We started to make progress on that front, should i cut that off ? (cant live without it )

2) We are currently sleeping together, cut that off and sleep in separate bedroom ? (I dont think so but i will let the experienced weigh in on this one)

3) We are currently working on a program that walks you through step by step process on analysing what went wrong and what the next steps are... It is a great book. She is fine with it. continue with it ?

[reservoirdog1]

1) What about SF ? We started to make progress on that front, should i cut that off ? (cant live without it )

Sure you can... and remember, there's always the band of the hand.

 

Don't cut off sex entirely, but don't initiate it. Tone down the intensity and frequency of your displays of physical affection towards her, by at least a half. (I'd almost be tempted to start being a little bit cocky towards her, and condescending, but that's a personal preference.) This, coupled with the New You, will make her want you more. When she sees you looking more fit, more stylish, and having new interests that she isn't part of, she'll be curious and her desire will go up. Let her come to you. Act like you don't particularly NEED her in the sex department. The unspoken message crossing her mind will be "hey, he's suddenly different, he's not all over me anymore... what's going on? Oh crap, he knows he can find somebody else if we don't make it work!" Bet you anything SHE'LL be the one trying to heat things up in bed.

 

2) We are currently sleeping together, cut that off and sleep in separate bedroom ? (I dont think so but i will let the experienced weigh in on this one)

No, don't do that as long as the two of you are (at least nominally) trying to fix things. You don't want to freeze her out completely -- you just want to be the strong, confident guy. You're sharing a bed with her? Hey, that's cool. But if she wasn't there? No big deal. So don't spoon her at night, or cuddle up to her. If she wants to scoot up and cuddle YOU, don't push her away. Kiss her goodnight, but keep the kissing on a low level, or at least no higher a level than hers. Again, you want her to want YOU. And you accomplish that by not being so available, and by being somewhat unpredictable.

 

3) We are currently working on a program that walks you through step by step process on analysing what went wrong and what the next steps are... It is a great book. She is fine with it. continue with it ?

Yeah, you can probably keep doing this. But don't let it distract you completely from the New You. Remember, there aren't two sides to you: there is the New You, and nothing. The old you is dead and gone. If she wants to be with the New You, she better hustle to keep up.

[65tr6]

but don't initiate it. .

understood. makes great sense actually. And she knows how much i need it so if i stop initiating that will send a strong signal - though i heard woman can go without it for a while !

 

also, i had mentioned this in the initial thread but I have changed....or changing - behavior wise to her astonishment. No more love busters as they say it.

 

 

You're sharing a bed with her?.

yes and i need to stop on the cuddling up piece big time. last two nights were much better. no more cuddling.

 

are you some kind of professional or you do this on the side/more like a hobby ? . very impressed. what is your story ? thank you again.

[jwi71]

Playing games is NOT the way to go.

 

And that is what I am hearing.

 

Don't initiate sex? Why not? What does that prove? What does that accomplish? She will suddenly "want" you?

 

Don't spoon or cuddle? Again, why? Prove you don't need her? That she is replaceable to you?

 

These activities are pulling away from her, not approaching her. There is a rift between you that neither of you have addressed. And walking away or pretending to "not need her" is going in the opposite direction. You need to move closer not more distant.

 

I do agree with working on yourself for YOU. Do reconnect with lost or forgotten passions. Do have other interests and friends outside the marriage. Do affect positive change for yourself (like exercise or doing something you always wanted to do - but somehow never did).

 

Neither of you has really done anything. She is in IC. You are not. You are not in MC. You are ignoring the 800 lbs gorilla inthe room. It won't go away. You either face it as a couple or the marriage fails. And thats what you have - a failed marriage. Fix it takes work. Together. Getting closer. Being open and honest. Not high school mind games and juvenile manipulation. All that does is put a drape on the gorilla.

 

I do not see how those actions help the marriage recover.

 

One question I would like you to answer: Why does she refuse MC? "I'm not ready" is rightfully a load of crap. Press her...why does SHE refuse to work on your marriage? Post her answer here...

 

Good luck to you.

[Reggie]

Sad as it is, I think those "games" have to be played. It sucks to have to do it, but, it does work.

[Angel1111]

I think you need to do what you need to do in order to heal. If you're clingy, then she should understand that this thing nearly broke you, and that this is the fall-out from her actions.

[Untouchable_Fire]

understood. makes great sense actually. And she knows how much i need it so if i stop initiating that will send a strong signal - though i heard woman can go without it for a while !

also, i had mentioned this in the initial thread but I have changed....or changing - behavior wise to her astonishment. No more love busters as they say it.

yes and i need to stop on the cuddling up piece big time. last two nights were much better. no more cuddling.

are you some kind of professional or you do this on the side/more like a hobby ? . very impressed. what is your story ? thank you again.

 

Do you want to be married to a woman that doesn't believe your worth the effort?

 

Do as ResDog is suggesting. Instead of making your marriage better, Make YOU better. That should be your full focus.

 

If your wife decides that you are worth the effort, she will work on making the marriage better. If you feel like that advice is "playing games" then just tell her to her face that its her RESPONSIBILITY to fix what she broke.

 

After reading through your stuff, I would say there is a strong chance she is still thinking about/wanting the other guy. You should take strong steps to make sure there is no contact between them at this stage. Be a hardass about this part! A good chunk of the reason your in this situation is because she sees you as a pussy! It's hard to respect that.

[reservoirdog1]

are you some kind of professional or you do this on the side/more like a hobby ? . very impressed. what is your story ? thank you again.

No my friend, not a pro of any kind... unless five years spent on LS gives me some kind of honourary certification or something. I went through something similar about five years ago, and I've learned a lot since then. I've also learned a lot about the sexual dynamics between men and women, which, like it or not, do come into play even with somebody you're married to.

 

(I can't say I completely followed my own advice back then; a lot of this I've picked up since then.)

 

My story, in a nutshell: in August 2003, after seven years of marriage and two kids, XW sat me down one evening and told me she'd been on-and-off unhappy for pretty much the whole marriage. She'd cheated during the engagement, shortly after the wedding, and again a few years later. I'd known about none of this, and thought we overall had a good, loving, committed marriage.

 

She wanted out, but I basically got her to agree to work on things for a few months. Her efforts were halfhearted at best, and after two months she said she'd had enough and wanted us to separate. I spent the next month sleeping on the living room couch (at my own instigation), packing my half of the furniture and other stuff, having as little contact with her as possible, and basically convincing myself that I hated her. I was very cold and unfriendly towards her, but with the benefit of hindsight, I don't regret that. My goal was to charge out of the marriage as somebody who was psyched about the future, not to slink out whimpering like a puppy that's just been kicked.

 

During that month, I went out with friends a lot, told her what I was doing (rather than asking), lost a bunch of weight, etc. I slept with another woman the night after I moved out (take that as a good thing or a bad thing if you like, but for me, it was a huge boost to my confidence at a time when it was pretty low, and a shot in the arm when I needed it most). About a week after moving out, I flew to Vegas for a weekend with friends. And guess what? Halfway through the trip, XW called me and begged me to come back. She asked me again a week later. And then again a month or so after that (after declining a similar attempt by me a couple of weeks earlier). And this from the woman who'd been secretly miserable with me for seven years, had screwed around, hadn't wanted to even work on reconciling until I badgered her into it, etc.

 

I did quite a bit of work on reinventing myself, a lot of the things I mentioned in my first post above. Getting the tattoo was a bit of a boost... I have a phobia about needles, which XW knew about. Right after I got it, she came to my place to drop the kids off, and I wore a t-shirt that allowed it to be a little bit visible. She didn't ask me about it, but I could see her out of the corner of my eye, craning her neck to see it. Betcha she didn't see THAT coming.

 

Anyway, we stayed apart, and XW and I now get along fine. But the chief benefit of the reinvention was that I rebuilt my self-confidence, particularly around women (which is pretty important when you've been made to feel inadequate by a cheating partner). The first year of the separation was a fairly busy time for me in terms of dating.

[65tr6]

One question I would like you to answer: Why does she refuse MC? "I'm not ready" is rightfully a load of crap. Press her...why does SHE refuse to work on your marriage? Post her answer here...

 

jw. again thanks for your response. She wants to delay it at this point. Do you understand that she just went through over 1 year of intense affair with OM ? It was still ongoing when she admitted it. And then all of sudden it was broken off. It was EA + PA all the way. She is realising and is feeling remorseful right now. Trust me on that. If she makes even one more attempt to contact the OM, all hell will break loose. Again trust me on that. She is going through severe conflict in her mind. I can see that.

 

But I ALSO see that she is coming out of the fog. They say this is a marathon not a sprint. I just have to be patient.

 

Yes i hate playing these games because i never did this with my wife. I also hate the fact that I am clinging on to my wife and she does not like that. So what's wrong on focussing on myself and ME and not US ? - alteast for now. She didnt give a damn about me when she had the affair.

 

I dont even want to dwelve into the reasons as to why she is not "ready" for MC. I am thinking, if you dont care, why should i ? As much as i love for us to live happily ever after. I like the idea suggested above that she should come back on my terms and not hers.

[reservoirdog1]

Playing games is NOT the way to go.

 

And that is what I am hearing.

Dismissing it as "game playing" is a bit simplistic, sorry to say. You'll notice I didn't say that he should push her away, rebuff her advances, or become a cold ********* towards her. I said that he should stop being the initiator, and let her come to him.

 

One of the problems with your marriage is that your wife finds you clingy, predictable, and boring. She is not attracted to you. And you are in competition with her OM, and with any other potential OM out there, i.e., with men who AREN'T you -- they aren't clingy, predictable and boring. They're mysterious, unfamiliar, exciting, and SHE wants THEM. If she was still more attracted to you than to all other men, she wouldn't have cheated. Pure and simple. (That's not to say that EVERY woman will cheat just because some other guy comes along who revs their engine more than her husband, of course, but that's what happened here.)

 

Continuing to be clingy, predictable and boring -- and, in fact, being MORE clingy than before, because you're faced with the fear of losing her -- will NOT make her want to come to you. It'll drive her further away.

 

Yes, there are other problems in your marriage that have to be addressed. That's why I agreed with the counselling options you mentioned. But rebuilding her attraction for you is KEY. I can't say that strongly enough. You don't want her back with you just because divorcing would be a hassle, or because she feels sorry for you, or she feels guilty, or thinks she should stay for the kids. F*ck that noise. If that happens, you'll be right back where you are now in a few years' time, I guarantee it. The only good way for her to come back to you is because she WANTS to be with you, and because she doesn't want to lose you. And your job is to make her want that.

 

And all the things I've suggested have the added benefit of putting you in a good position in the event that the marriage does end.

[65tr6]

Do you want to be married to a woman that doesn't believe your worth the effort?

 

Do as ResDog is suggesting. Instead of making your marriage better, Make YOU better. That should be your full focus.

 

Do you realise that it was a bad marriage that led to this ? And if it is a bad marriage, what is wrong in changing myself ? I accept 50% responsiblity for my bad marriage and none for the affair

 

I have no problems doing that. What ofcourse i need to do at the same time is focus on myself which i am learning to do right now.

 

 

 

A good chunk of the reason your in this situation is because she sees you as a pussy! It's hard to respect that.

yes she probably does. And that's where i need help to change that image.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Do you realise that it was a bad marriage that led to this ? And if it is a bad marriage, what is wrong in changing myself ? I accept 50% responsiblity for my bad marriage and none for the affair

I have no problems doing that. What ofcourse i need to do at the same time is focus on myself which i am learning to do right now.

 

Good marriage? Bad marriage? What is the difference? A marriage is a marriage, and it will go through good times and bad times. It's how well you stick to each other when those bad times come that determines the worth of your relationship.

 

So, yeah... take responsibility for some of the bad. Also realize that at some point she decided you were not enough! That she wanted better than you. Yet did not have enough respect to talk to you about it.

 

Is that love? If it is I don't want it. Why do you?

 

Keep these things in perspective because sometimes anger can be the armour your heart wears to survive the darts and daggers your wife throws.

 

yes she probably does. And that's where i need help to change that image.

 

Strong men are not clingy or needy. A strong man can walk away from this marriage without fear or regret. Be confident.

 

Perhaps you need to realize that your wife is not the only woman in the world, nor the best one, and perhaps not even the best one for you.

 

If you feel like you constantly need her affection or approval.... your going the wrong direction.

[65tr6]

Is that love? If it is I don't want it. Why do you? .

 

Nope it is not. That's why she had the affair, because she was not in love with me. So you are saying every time there is an affair, then people should just end their marriage because they are not in love ?

 

Strong men are not clingy or needy. A strong man can walk away from this marriage without fear or regret. Be confident.

I realise that. This is hard on me. I never went through anything like this before. So this makes me less strong ? Dont strong men have their moments of weakness ? May be that's what i am finding out.

[Reggie]

You may not be able to save the marriage(most cannot after infidelity) but now you have learned a hard lesson about depending on another for your happiness and self worth. This is a painful lesson that I had to learn, as well. It alters your approach to relationships.

I think your wife must have been a poor communicator to have gone this route without addressing her disatisfaction. It is tough to be in a relationship with someone like that as one is always guessing and does not really know where one stands.

I gave way too much to my marriage and it was unhealthy and destructive. The balance of power was so skewed that Ilost my wife's respect(not that she has much for anyone). More importantly, I lost respect for myself and modeled doormatedness for the kids. I was a complete idiot in that regard, It will never happen again(I hope).

[Untouchable_Fire]

Nope it is not. That's why she had the affair, because she was not in love with me. So you are saying every time there is an affair, then people should just end their marriage because they are not in love ?

 

Everyone is different. I am speaking directly about your predicament. Love should not be situational so what I am asking you is Do you want a fairweather wife? Do you want someone who only loves you when things are great?

 

 

 

I realise that. This is hard on me. I never went through anything like this before. So this makes me less strong ? Dont strong men have their moments of weakness ? May be that's what i am finding out.

 

I think you are finding your strength every day.

 

It's not what happens to you that makes you strong, it's how you deal with it.

[reservoirdog1]

You may not be able to save the marriage(most cannot after infidelity) but now you have learned a hard lesson about depending on another for your happiness and self worth. This is a painful lesson that I had to learn, as well. It alters your approach to relationships.

I think your wife must have been a poor communicator to have gone this route without addressing her disatisfaction. It is tough to be in a relationship with someone like that as one is always guessing and does not really know where one stands.

I gave way too much to my marriage and it was unhealthy and destructive. The balance of power was so skewed that Ilost my wife's respect(not that she has much for anyone). More importantly, I lost respect for myself and modeled doormatedness for the kids. I was a complete idiot in that regard, It will never happen again(I hope).

 

AMEN TO THAT.

 

I did exactly the same thing when I was married. Very early on, I pretty much decided that I was no longer "me" -- I was now part of an "us". Pretty willingly, I subsumed myself into the marriage, gave up some things I liked doing that make my life more enjoyable, because I figured I "wasn't about that anymore" (and no, they weren't things that are incompatible with marriage, like dating other women or anything). I gave up my individuality. And the real shame is that I did it mostly willingly, not because XW made me. Doing that was my greatest failure in that marriage.

 

The result of having done so was that, when faced with the end of the marriage, I felt completely adrift and unsure what to do. I felt like I was losing the foundational thing in my life, on which all other things depended. I had spent years defining myself by something that no longer existed. Who the hell was I? What were the things I liked, that got ME going, and that made MY life more interesting? I really didn't know anymore. And part of reinventing myself was finding out. I've tried a bunch of new things since then. Some I didn't like and I didn't continue with them, but that's okay -- my life is richer and more complete because of those experiences. Some of them, I've stuck with, and they continue to enrich my life.

 

Overall, I think XW respects me again. In fact, I believe her respect for me started coming back the first week after we split up. And she does seem to think that I'm a pretty amazing dad to the kids, and has told me so recently. And you know what? She's absolutely right.

[jwi71]

jw. again thanks for your response. She wants to delay it at this point. Do you understand that she just went through over 1 year of intense affair with OM ? It was still ongoing when she admitted it. And then all of sudden it was broken off. It was EA + PA all the way. She is realising and is feeling remorseful right now. Trust me on that. If she makes even one more attempt to contact the OM, all hell will break loose. Again trust me on that. She is going through severe conflict in her mind. I can see that.

 

I understand perfectly having lived it myself. I know exactly what you are facing. Problem is, your WW isn't the only one in a fog now. You are not seeing the red flags.

 

Remorseful. OK, I'll bite. How is she remorseful? Because telling you to leave her aone, refusing MC and calling you clingy doesn't seem that way to me. It seems very selfish, uncaring and cold. I mean, you posted here to help appear "less clingy". You're clingy because you want reassurrance from her? You're clingy because she isn't meetiing your emotional needs? Excuse me, but she cheated on you. And now you have to prove less clingy to her? WTF?

 

Sorry. You have it backwards. She needs to prove worthy of return - not you proving to be less clingy in the hopes she'll stay. Because that's what you are doing.

 

And the conflict? More bad news for you. Because that is energy going into leaving and not staying. Those are thoughts of "life is better w/o you" than staying married to you. You want the M to work - fight for it. Grow a spine and demand MC.

 

And you're nuts to think she will not relapse. You said it yourself...over a year in an intense A - oh yeah, she'll relapse. That's part of her conflict.

 

But I ALSO see that she is coming out of the fog. They say this is a marathon not a sprint. I just have to be patient.

100% agree. But she hasn't taken step one.

I do not agree about being patient. Don't you have rights? Don't your feelings and wants and needs matter? How long will you wait for her decide that you are better than him? Because that is what you are doing. Waiting. ACT. Drag her butt to MC.

Yes i hate playing these games because i never did this with my wife. I also hate the fact that I am clinging on to my wife and she does not like that.

Its not clinging. Its called needing reassurance and getting none. Cosnidering the circumstances, its NORMAL to have those needs. Is not normal for her to not recognize your need - even worse to call you clingy.

 

So what's wrong on focussing on myself and ME and not US ? - alteast for now. She didnt give a damn about me when she had the affair.

What, you can't work on both? You can't work on yourself and the marriage? You can't go to MC and IC and the gym and pick up a hobby? Again, the problem is you aren't working on yourself or the marriage. Neither is she.

 

I dont even want to dwelve into the reasons as to why she is not "ready" for MC.

You want this M to survive you had better. Or is there a twinge of fear that others will poke holes in her reasons? Look, for me, you either want it or you don't. You work on it or you don't. Half-effort only prolongs YOUR agony. So demand the MC.

 

I like the idea suggested above that she should come back on my terms and not hers.

She must prove worthy. Yes, you set the terms and she meets them.

Not you be less clingy. One last time - it isn't clingy. Its man who seeks reassurance from having his life turned upside down. Nothing clingy about it.

 

Do NOT play games. Sit her down. Tell her how you feel, what you want and what you expect. This includes MC. You both need it.

 

You really really NEED to explore why she doesn't need MC.

 

Here for you, no one else. And feel free to disagree...its YOUR life.

[65tr6]

It alters your approach to relationships.

I think your wife must have been a poor communicator to have gone this route without addressing her disatisfaction.

no doubt it will alter my approach. And yes you hit the nail on the head, she being a poor communicator but more importantly, as she is finding out, needs to work on herself first.

 

I dont want to comment on if our marriage will survive or not...i think right now that is a low priority and a long term goal. There are atleast 10 different short terms goals that need to be achieved before then - that we both need to work on - separately/together.

 

by the way, great feedback/coaching guys/gals.

[jwi71]

Dismissing it as "game playing" is a bit simplistic, sorry to say. You'll notice I didn't say that he should push her away, rebuff her advances, or become a cold ********* towards her. I said that he should stop being the initiator, and let her come to him.

 

Its game playing when you suggest he withhold sex and masturbate. Its game playing when you say "don't initiate". Its a power play. Its manipulation, not healing. No two ways about it.

 

One of the problems with your marriage is that your wife finds you clingy, predictable, and boring. She is not attracted to you. And you are in competition with her OM, and with any other potential OM out there, i.e., with men who AREN'T you -- they aren't clingy, predictable and boring. They're mysterious, unfamiliar, exciting, and SHE wants THEM. If she was still more attracted to you than to all other men, she wouldn't have cheated. Pure and simple. (That's not to say that EVERY woman will cheat just because some other guy comes along who revs their engine more than her husband, of course, but that's what happened here.)

Except a marriage is two people. Yes, 65tr6 needs to change. But his W needs to change more. What you are suggesting is that the OP is responsible for the A. That he is boring, clingy, predictable, etc and thus by changing himself he repairs the M. NOT TRUE. HE changes himself but not the issues in HER. And she is the problem, not him. I believe that it is misguided in suggesting that he fixes himself and thus the marriage.

 

Continuing to be clingy, predictable and boring -- and, in fact, being MORE clingy than before, because you're faced with the fear of losing her -- will NOT make her want to come to you. It'll drive her further away.

I somewhat agree. HE isnt meeting HER needs. So he needs to ask. What needs? How can I improve? Then he can lay out what he needs from her (like MC).

 

Yes, there are other problems in your marriage that have to be addressed. That's why I agreed with the counselling options you mentioned. But rebuilding her attraction for you is KEY. I can't say that strongly enough. You don't want her back with you just because divorcing would be a hassle, or because she feels sorry for you, or she feels guilty, or thinks she should stay for the kids. F*ck that noise. If that happens, you'll be right back where you are now in a few years' time, I guarantee it. The only good way for her to come back to you is because she WANTS to be with you, and because she doesn't want to lose you. And your job is to make her want that.

Nope. It is not his job to appear attractive enough for her to return. Its setting him up to fail. It sounds like he is to cede control of what to change and how much - all held to HER standard for the privilege of staying married.

 

I can understand your points and the method - I just don't agree with it.