MadBambi Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 G'morning! Ok- I've been dating a guy for 8 months now. He claims to love me - in fact he was the first to mention love. Anyway, we don't hang out or spend time together the way I'm used to. Really nothing in our relationship has gone the way I'm used to! Ive never had to be the person to initiate EVERYTHING! Sometimes I give him the benefit of the doubt because when we met his mother was I'll and unfortunately she passed away 3 months ago. I usually let this account for a lot of his actions/shortcomings on our relationship. Basically, he says he's not ready to commit but at the same time wants to know damn near every move I make. He very handsome but acts insecure. He's always accusing me of cheating or is afraid I will leave him. I'm a good woman and a loyal one. When he questions me about things - anything - I throughly explain any situation to put his insecurities to rest. If I question him about something his answers are vague. Sometimes he'll get upset and say well since we're not exclusive you shouldn't be asking. Or he may say that be and I are only friends. I know the obvious answer is that he is seeing other people and is selfishly keeping me around. I told him that if he won't commit right now I have to at least know that we're moving foreward - he responded by saying be doesn't like ultimatums and that he always knew I would leave him. I know he loves me but he acts so afraid. Am I doing something wrong? Every time I try to leave he accuses me of having found someone else - which is not true. I'm just not happy and would like to be. Is there any way to bring him out of his insecure ways? MEN: why is he being this way? Should I just try to be strong and stick to the ultimatum I gave him today? Thank you for your insights!
Author MadBambi Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 oh,and by the way his age is 29. Ok, me and my poor broken heart are going to try to get a little rest. See y'all soon!!
LittleDove Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 is it just me or does he seem to be projecting onto you... it sounds like it to me.. yes hes having a very hard time, dealing with grief.. the death of his mother, must be a HUGE loss. 3 months is baby talk in grieving terms. He might still be in shock, denial, anger, or any of the grieving stages.. do you feel hes being honest?? Maybe he needs some space right now- or maybe he doesnt even know what he needs. When my father died, i didnt know which way was up, i was a zombie for a few months. (the one and only time my egox was kind to me) If you think hes being dishonest, then I think you did the right thing today, as long as you are ready to stand by the ultimatum. Be kind to him, but also kind to yourself... the WHY? ..well all I can guess is, his mum just died. Thats BIG. But no excuse for prolonged bs behaviour, you should know exactly where you stand. Did you think it was exclusive?
Author MadBambi Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 I know I am kind to him - I try to tell him not to be afraid and that he can talk to me. I feel like he's only with me but some of my friends have me thinking he's being dishonest. I don't want to paint him to be an awful guy. He's really not. But his unwillingness to commit or even show a progress in our relationship is confusing - especially when he acts like his biggest fear is losing me. And honestly I have no idea if I can really stick to my this ultimatum! I'm always true to my heart but this time I don't know what to do.
Author MadBambi Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 is it just me or does he seem to be projecting onto you... I'm sorry but I'm not really sure what you mean by this...?
LittleDove Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 oppps. will re-post. umm my understanding of 'projection' is when someone accuses you of doing exactly what theyre doing. In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions to others. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them. The theory was developed by Sigmund Freud and further refined by his daughter Anna Freud, and for this reason, it is sometimes referred to as "Freudian Projection"[1][2] wikipedia.
Author MadBambi Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 Oh, ok. You know my mother says that too. She said either he has a guilty conscience and is accusing me of things he is doing OR has baggage from his previous girlfriend OR that he has misguided anger and because he loves me and holds me close to his heart I'm the easiest target. Well, he is the only one who knows the answer but he won't open up and tell me what his anger and insecurities stem from. In reality be probably needs more help than I can offer, huh? I thought I hope I get to hear more opinions on this...cuz believe me I'll probably be here aaaaaall day...hahaha! Just to keep myself from calling him
IfWishesWereHorses Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 He is projecting, he is also controlling and manipulating you.
shockandawed Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I also agree about the projecting but there seems to be confusing actions here. Usually when someone is insecure, they do the questioning and throw the statements out for reassurance, but they aren't usually indifferent towards the relationship status. If anything, they are a little clingy. Grieving for his mom can give him a pass on many actions, but it doesn't warrant him playing games with your status. 8 months is more than long enough for both partners to be clear on the relationship. His paranoia could be the result of someone cheating or abruptly leaving him. Unfortunately, I have found myself dealing with this some for the first time myself. I don't control or keep her guessing about the relationship and I hope I stop short of crazy accusations, but I understand how past experiences can affect you. This may explain why he has this wall up, but it isn't fair to you. What do you know about his past?
shockandawed Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Let me add one other thought. I do agree with you on your ultimatum. I really don't see it as that as much as you standing up for yourself and demanding a fair and level playing field. As hard as it is, I can assure you that you did the right thing and more importantly, you have to stand by it. If you back down, your relationship will NEVER be on an even level.
norajane Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 since we're not exclusive you shouldn't be asking. Bullsh*t. You've been dating 8 months and he says he loves you. You have every right to question him. And since he is TELLING you that you aren't exclusive, then yes, it would appear he's keeping his options open. I'd sit him down and tell him 1) you refuse to continue having sex with a guy who claims that you aren't exclusive and is probably dating and banging other girls, and 2) HE has no right to question YOU since you aren't exclusive, and 3) if he wants to keep seeing you, he's going to have to make a choice about exclusivity and monogamy or you will make it for him. He may be screwed up about his mother's death, but that's no excuse for him to treat you like crap. You shouldn't accept that. No man is worth accepting him treating you like you and your feelings are less important than his.
Ruby Slippers Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 ^ As usual, totally agree with norajane. Wise words. I would also strongly recommend that you be very CLEAR in your thoughts (with yourself) and in your communication (with him). Once you lay down a line, do not let him step over it, and do not backtrack. Nothing's going to change here unless you make it change.
Author MadBambi Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 ^ I would also strongly recommend that you be very CLEAR in your thoughts (with yourself) and in your communication (with him). Once you lay down a line, do not let him step over it, and do not backtrack. Nothing's going to change here unless you make it change. I know! Im so glad that y'all agree with me here because I've been so unsure of how to deal with this! I've never even been in a dating situation where I've had to give an ultimatum like this and I have to admit - I SUCK AT IT!! I had to leave my cell phone in the car last night and most of today to keep from answering his calls. He did however call my house phone and I was weak and answered. We spoke briefly and then i told him i had to go. He called back shortly after and played our song on my voicemail...and texted that he loves me. All this and still no response to the proposition i made about taking a step forward. Will he ever come around? Is it wrong to ignore him? I just want to make sure I'm not being immature or handling this wrong. This forum thing is SO helpful!! I feel good being able to vent and get support and reassurance. Thanks so much!!
Author MadBambi Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 I also agree about the projecting but there seems to be confusing actions here. Usually when someone is insecure, they do the questioning and throw the statements out for reassurance, but they aren't usually indifferent towards the relationship status. If anything, they are a little clingy. His paranoia could be the result of someone cheating or abruptly leaving him. What do you know about his past? Yes! Very confusing! He acts as if he wants me and doesn't want me at the same time. I don't know much about his past because he doesn't open up. I do know though that he does have issues with people leaving him his mom, a brother and his father have all passed in the last 5 years. I'm not sure what happened with his previous GF because he hates talking about that. They dated for 4 yrs and I can only assume she betrayed him or something. Maybe he's not over that. When he knows i'm upset and am ready to give up he's quick to mention how everyone is always leaving him. He says I'm the closest woman to his heart since his mom passed. I can't figure out if he says these things honestly or just manipulatively. Either way it makes me want to show him that I care and am here for him. I never want to leave someone sad and hurting -- but now look at me, right?
You'reasian Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 If nothing happened between the two of you that caused him to pull away, then its best if you just leave him be and go no contact. Men usually don't randomly pull away. Something happens at a not so opportune time that usually creates conflict. Were there any incidences or linked events that preceded his change in behavior?
Ruby Slippers Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Yes! Very confusing! He acts as if he wants me and doesn't want me at the same time. I don't know much about his past because he doesn't open up. I do know though that he does have issues with people leaving him his mom, a brother and his father have all passed in the last 5 years. I'm not sure what happened with his previous GF because he hates talking about that. They dated for 4 yrs and I can only assume she betrayed him or something. Maybe he's not over that. When he knows i'm upset and am ready to give up he's quick to mention how everyone is always leaving him. He says I'm the closest woman to his heart since his mom passed. I can't figure out if he says these things honestly or just manipulatively. Either way it makes me want to show him that I care and am here for him. I never want to leave someone sad and hurting -- but now look at me, right? You can't ever REALLY know another person. He might be lying/manipulating, and he might be telling you the truth. All you can do is decide whether or not you want to believe him, and whether or not it makes sense for you to work with him through it. On one hand, my ex made the case for himself that he started out as this open-hearted emotional guy who got hurt too many times and had hardened into this cynical commitment phobe who ran hot and cold not because he didn't love me, but because he was afraid. On the other hand, I wondered if he was behaving that way because for whatever reason he just didn't love me enough to man up and make a real commitment, and that just made me doubt myself and feel bad about myself. What it boiled down to was that it was HIS PROBLEM, his fears, doubts, and self-defenses that were creating major problems, and I had NO CONTROL over those. If he wanted to work through his fears and have a healthy relationship with me, it was up to him. Same story with you. You can be a loving presence in his life, but NOT to the detriment of your own health, happiness, and sanity. And a word on ultimatums: that word gets thrown around a lot, usually in an attempt to make women feel bad for having standards and bottom lines. It is a good thing to have standards, and to refuse to accept treatment that doesn't meet them. No one's going to do it for you but you.
Author MadBambi Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 Well, we worked together and were both laid off recently. Of course being laid off sucks and is depressing in itself. I thought that due to the lay off we'd spend more time together - which we didn't. So since he wouldn't go out with me I started going out more which isn't something i normally do. i know i have every right to do so, however, this only fuels his insecure behavior. Please believe when I go out I just want to get out of the house and be around my girls. I usually don't drink or just have a couple and just enjoy the atmosphere. I even invite him to come with me or meet us there. Anyway, i guess this is the change but it's something innocent that i started doing to get my mind off of being laid off n beingg bored! He just takes it to mean that I'm getting wasted and chatting up a bunch of horny men. In all honesty the horny men at the club make me want to run home to him! Geez, this reads like a soap opera! The more questions people ask - the worse things sound! But this is probably good - it makes me realize all the things i decide to deal with... I'm kind of embarrassed. When I tell my girls it seems almost normal cuz it just fits in with all the other girl talk n' man-bashing.
norajane Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Perhaps he's so messed up that his not CAPABLE of having a loving, giving, honest relationship with anyone. He may be too emotionally damaged to be able to treat you well. And you may have to decide he's just plain not going to be the man in your life since he's not capable of acting like one. You need to learn to recognize that in someone - not everyone is emotionally healthy enough to be a good partner. You don't have to stay with him, and never mind his manipulative crap about how everybody leaves him. You aren't responsible for that.
Author MadBambi Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 On one hand, my ex made the case for himself that he started out as this open-hearted emotional guy who got hurt too many times and had hardened into this cynical commitment phobe who ran hot and cold not because he didn't love me, but because he was afraid. On the other hand, I wondered if he was behaving that way because for whatever reason he just didn't love me enough to man up and make a real commitment, and that just made me doubt myself and feel bad about myself. What it boiled down to was that it was HIS PROBLEM, his fears, doubts, and self-defenses that were creating major problems, and I had NO CONTROL over those. If he wanted to work through his fears and have a healthy relationship with me, it was up to him. quote] Wow, that sounds exactly like how I feel and what's going on. What happened? How did you find the strength to leave or change your outlook?
Ruby Slippers Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Wow, that sounds exactly like how I feel and what's going on. What happened? How did you find the strength to leave or change your outlook? I scheduled a few sessions with a counselor, and I broke everything down rationally. I got very honest with myself about the fact that in spite of the amazing sex and some other great points of connection, and in spite of all his big talk about me being "the love of his life", I was NOT HAPPY and felt that I was spinning my wheels in my life, being with him. I tried to break up with him twice, and he talked me out of it both times, promising to improve and doing so briefly, then going back to more of the same. The third time, I told him I was breaking up with him and said my decision was not open to discussion. I told him not to contact me in any way. He has respected that, and I haven't had any contact with him whatsoever in the two months since I broke it off. I still miss him sometimes, and I think it's very sad that what could have been a great relationship had to end mostly because of his hangups -- but that's the reality. It's unfortunate that he has been hurt so much that he hardened himself to the point that he couldn't really love or let love in. But you know what? I've been hurt, too, but I have worked my ass off to maintain a positive outlook and a proactive approach to life. It'll never work for me to be with someone who has given up on himself and become a bitter cynic who is unable to love. I am doing much better now, and I know I made the right decision.
You'reasian Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Sounds good and I know where you're coming from, from the man's perspective. I can't stand jealous, insecure women and have had to rationalize that it is often their problem, not mine.
Author MadBambi Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 Perhaps he's so messed up that his not CAPABLE of having a loving, giving, honest relationship with anyone. He may be too emotionally damaged to be able to treat you well. And you may have to decide he's just plain not going to be the man in your life since he's not capable of acting like one. You need to learn to recognize that in someone - not everyone is emotionally healthy enough to be a good partner. You don't have to stay with him, and never mind his manipulative crap about how everybody leaves him. You aren't responsible for that. Thank you for this post! I've come back to read it a few times tonite. This is all good advice and I appreciate all of y'alls insights. What you've said though Norajane helps me realize that I can't help everyone and that's ok... Its not my job to. I need to get some rest. See y'all tomorrow!!
SoulSearch_CO Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 You can never, ever convince somebody you love them if they are looking for constant proof. My exH was constantly of the mind that one day I would leave him, I didn't really love him, I deserved better, one day the shoe would drop. Ugh - after 5 years, it gets exhausting trying to convince somebody. If going through all the **** I went through to be with him didn't prove anything, then he'd never believe he was lovable. I had to leave. Seriously, the words that cemented the decision to file for divorce were along the lines that I could find a better man than him and when I did, he wouldn't stand in my way. Good grief. I'll never be with somebody like that ever again. If I ever have a guy say some crap like that to me, I'm going to tell him that his wish for me to leave is granted - goodbye. I'm a big believer that you create your own experience and if you constantly spout negativity, that's what you'll continue to receive from the universe. It sounds to me like he won't commit because he's afraid to open himself to you, afraid that you'll leave once he does. I would recommend counseling for him before you consider marriage with him at all. He needs to decide on his own if he's lovable - no outside force is going to prove it to him. If he's not able/willing to fix himself, don't even waste your energy - it's not your job.
Author MadBambi Posted November 28, 2008 Author Posted November 28, 2008 Happy day after Thanksgiving!! So, ok I am lame and broke my NC which honestly only lasted 2 days. I talked to him on Wed and he was feeling down cuz its the first holiday without his mom so naturally I felt bad and talked to him for a little bit. He called yesterday and asked if he could stop by to kick it with the FAM and get a plate long story short everything was GREAT! We had an awesome day until his punk a$$ called me later wanting to come over which I agreed to. Silly me! Of course he just came over to get some holiday lovin which I did NOT give to him. In turn he got pissed off and tried to make me feel guilty by threatening to leave. I told him whenever he's ready I walk him out. Anyway he was being completely disrespectful and I proceeded to argue outside in the cold at 2am only for him to conclude that I'm sleeping with someone else AND that the one thing he thought his "woman" would never take away from him is gone. HA! What a character... He said I'm changing and that we don't have anything left. I told him I'm done trying to prove myself to him and that his insecurities and paranoia have defeated me. Funnily enough he called me when he got home....not to talk but to continue arguing. I, um, don't have a question I just wanted to vent and boast about how proud I am of myself for not giving in to the holiday bootycall (even though he was looking good n' sexy and I was all hot n' bothered! ) and also for not falling (completely) for his crap. Gold star for me...? Or at least a bronze? Y'all think I did ok? Now what?
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