Cliche Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 He did go back to his wife once. We both had some unreasonable expectations - we thought it would be all sunshine and puppies instead of recognizing that it would be hard and that there would be times he might feel like he didn't deserve to be happy because of the way he had hurt someone else. If you don't mind me asking, you seemed to indicate you are now committed to your former MM.... I assume that means he's no longer married and is just with you? Did he leave for you? How did it come about? And how did you deal with any negative feelings (if there were any) as they came up after he left? He'd tell you he did not leave his marriage for me. He'd tell you that it was over years before we met and that maybe our meeting hastened the inevitable, but that both he and his exW knew it was inevitable. He would then tell you that he made a promise to me to move out of their house and in with me on a certain date, and that he kept that promise. I think the former is mostly accurate. The latter, however, is revisionist history. He let 4 promises of move dates go by before he kept the promise of the 5th date. AND I honestly believe that he finally made that move because I was ready to move on without him, and had told him that. It wasn't a threat. It was more like "here's what I'm doing, the date I'm doing it and how I'm doing it. I love you, but I have to have a healthy life for me and my children." I honestly believe that had I not made that decision for me and me alone, and if I still sat by and waited, he would've just kept the status quo going because it just was less scary to stay put than to move on. When I said I was moving on, then there was no status quo. It was move on with me or not, and I guess moving on with me was less scary than staying put in a dead relationship that would only get deader. As far as negative feelings, if he has had any, he hasn't shared them and hasn't betrayed them. He tells me and acts like he feels he's the luckiest man on earth. I will tell you that I've had a few bad moods about what I felt he put me through. I felt like I was in HELL for over a year. It hurt like crazy. And a few times that pain has come back. But I tell myself that I love him. He loves me. We're happy. Our children are happy and we have no problems now. And I feel like I'm the luckiest woman on earth. The past belongs properly in the past. The "if" in the equation is not really related to whether his marriage to his wife will end or to whether he will want me in his life when it does. The "if" is really about whether his marriage can end in a way that he and I can both feel good about. If he waits and lets it wind down naturally or for his wife to end it, then I can never be happy with him knowing he did not choose me. He is concerned that if he leaves for me, he won't be able to enjoy being with me because of the guilt. We are working hard to find a way for us to both have what we need. He can't keep you waiting indefinitely until things run their course. He has to hasten the end of his marriage IF that is what he wants. It is his choice and you can't force him to make it. He also cannot leave "for you." He has to leave for him but move towards you. Leaving for you will make both of you miserable. That's my opinion, anyways. I genuinely believe he is a good man and would be a good partner to me. He is honest with me even when he knows I will not like what he has to say. This is not something he has done with his wife or in any other relationship. We've spent many hours talking about why he reached a point in his marriage where he was willing to cheat on his wife (and he has taken responsibility for his own failings rather than blaming her for not loving him enough or giving him enough attention) as well as how we would make sure something like that never happens in ours. He is worthy of my devotion and my patience; it's just becoming so hard that I hardly know what to do. I hope this works out for you. I have always felt the same way about my partner, and now that we're together, it's better than I could've imagined. I wish you the best. I hope he makes his choice soon, for your sake and his (and his W's).
whichwayisup Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 WWIU - I agree, the timing is not good. I have not heard from him today, which is unusual. I am expecting not to hear from him or, if I do, that he will wait until a date certain to separate. But, I have been down that road before and it was a dead end road. Detach and focus on you. Tell him when he divorces, THEN you'll consider dating him slowly and casually, but until then, do your best to distance yourself from him and cut him out of your life. You were fine before he came into your life, you'll be fine without him. Rely on family and friends to help you cope, and for support. Staying put and allowing him to call the shots is killing you.
wildsoul Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 Hello FLS, welcome to the group. I can relate SO well to your story. Not only does it sound like your MM's dynamic with his W is very similar to mine (not pulling the trigger, which allows the W to stay in denial, so it stays stuck) but your attitude and personality are resonate with me too. No kids involved on either side. At first glance, you'd think it wouldn't be so hard! Curious: when he separated from his W before, how long did it last and where did he live? Also, what was his justification for going back. It seems to me that the hardest part of your situation is that it took a big step backwards into being an affair again. All the forward momentum was lost, so on his clock it's like starting over again. Yet for those of us that are single and waiting, the meter is running. Have you thought about how long is too long for you? I'm talking about your internal boundaries, not an ultimatum that you necessarily tell him about.
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 27, 2008 Author Posted November 27, 2008 Thanks for the welcome, Wildsoul. When he separated from his wife, he stayed in the house and she moved in with a friend of hers. Since he shocked her the first time with his request for a separation, he agreed to go ahead and attend whatever social plans they had already made as a couple. I quietly let this happen, thinking he needed to to do something to ease the guilt he was feeling. The separation lasted a few months - he got increasingly depressed because he would agree to see her for coffee or something and let her tell him how miserable he had made her. Soon, she started calling his house early in the morning and late at night and leaving tearful messages when he wasn't there to answer. When he started feeling uncomfortable being away from his home phone in case she called, I told him to deal with whatever residual issues he had with her. I essentially sent him back, telling him I wouldn't accept him under those circumstances. For his part, he felt like because he had never given her a chance to fix the problems in their marriage before leaving for me, that he owed her that opportunity. So he went back and we didn't talk. They went to marriage counseling, and it has not helped. We were NC for quite awhile as he tried to work on the marriage (probably not as long as it seemed!). In all honesty, I started seeing him again in part to extend my internal boundary. I know it's foolish, but I'm just not ready to give up. As for what my limit is, I'm not sure. Sometimes it feels like it's about five minutes away and sometimes I wonder if I'm a bottomless pit! The days when I thought I would wait forever are gone. For me, it doesn't have anything to do with a fear that I will end up alone or that I will waste the best years of my life on someone who won't work out. The simple fact is I don't want anyone but him and I doubt I ever will, not fully anyway. My patience is ending because I don't want to wake up some morning and wonder who I am and how I became that person. Right now I'm still myself, but I can see all too clearly how I might lose that if I wait too long.
RecordProducer Posted November 27, 2008 Posted November 27, 2008 What can I say or do to help calm his fears or better understand what he needs in order to finally give us all some peace? I don't have personal experience with this, but generally men come around when you distance yourself and start dating other people, when you have someone else courting you, when you have a life. You figure it out. That's the correct direction. Pressuring him is the opposite (wrong!) direction.
signedin2008 Posted November 27, 2008 Posted November 27, 2008 I know he likely lies to her everyday. He lies about his whereabouts, whether he has talked to me, and what he is thinking about at a given moment. Some part of me feels badly about that. But I have to admit, another part of me feels annoyed with his wife - why doesn't she just let him go? Why fight to stay married to someone who says they don't want to be married to you? Why stay married to someone who isn't making you happy? What stay married to someone who cheated on you and lied about it? I find myself wondering why she doesn't have more self-respect. If he can lie to his own wife who he vowed to be faithful to, etc., you don't think he can and has lied to you? Self respect? What about your self respect for being a mistress?
whichwayisup Posted November 27, 2008 Posted November 27, 2008 But I have to admit, another part of me feels annoyed with his wife - why doesn't she just let him go? Why fight to stay married to someone who says they don't want to be married to you? Why stay married to someone who isn't making you happy? What stay married to someone who cheated on you and lied about it? I find myself wondering why she doesn't have more self-respect. Because when he's with her, he obviously wants to be with her. He tells her one thing, and you another. Who knows what the real truth is, but I'll tell you one thing, fact that he has NOT left, says alot. She more than likely IS fighting for her marriage, they have kids together and a history, family entwined, friends, neighbours - A life built. SHE has every right to fight for all that. She has an obligation, you don't. You are not his wife, nor do you share everything with him (well, you may share it all with him but he doesn't share it all with you). He is letting her win him back. IF he didn't want to be there, he'd leave. Another thing, as signedin mentioned, don't fool yourself into believing that he hasn't lied to you or bent the truth to suit him. He is capable of lying to his wife, mother of his kids! Why think he wouldn't ever lie to you as well? Please think about that before you get angry at his wife. Your anger is directed at the wrong person. You should be angry with him as well as with yourself. If you plan on being the OW in his life, well, get used to being second best to everyone, and that includes his wife and kids. His actions have shown you this.
frannie Posted November 27, 2008 Posted November 27, 2008 his wife - why doesn't she just let him go? Why fight to stay married to someone who says they don't want to be married to you? Why stay married to someone who isn't making you happy? What stay married to someone who cheated on you and lied about it? I find myself wondering why she doesn't have more self-respect. I think that's a fair enough question, and it is an obvious one really. But firstly, he might not be being with her the way you think he is being, or the way he suggests to you he is being. You know, he could be being kind enough or responsive enough or vague enough or who knows what enough that she's not 100% sure she's had enough. Also, she has every right to stay married if she wants to, for whatever reason, some of which might seem 'ridiculous' in a way, or some that you might choose yourself in the same situation. For one reason, as an example, many MM say they stay married with a W they no longer love 'for the kids'. Same thing applies for BSs. They stay married, despite actually despising the WS, because they think it's best for their kids.
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 I'm feeling better than I was the day I started posting here. Not that it has anything to do with the situation having improved. I actually think that thinking about leaving him made me feel worse than anything he has done or failed to do. Why should I be forced to break up with someone I still love because he's acting like a coward?
norajane Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 I'm feeling better than I was the day I started posting here. Not that it has anything to do with the situation having improved. I actually think that thinking about leaving him made me feel worse than anything he has done or failed to do. Why should I be forced to break up with someone I still love because he's acting like a coward? Because the relationship makes you feel like crap 90% of the time, and the other 10% is only when you're actually with him and can temporarily forget the rest of the time that you feel like crap?
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 But I think part of the problem has been too much focus on the R making me feel poorly. I know this sounds convoluted, but I have begun to remind myself that my feelings are completely within my control. I can choose to feel frustrated by his slow progress or I can enjoy the extra time I have while I'm waiting for him. I'm trying to view this as an opportunity to work more and to hang out more with my friends. When I have been viewing my other activities as a mode of distraction, I have been doing a disservice to myself and to my other interests. My job, friends, and hobbies do not exist to take my mind off MM; they exist because they have always made me happy. If they are not making me happy right now, it's because I need to shift my focus and my expectations. I cannot control anything MM does (or fails to do), but I can control my reaction to it. I can choose to be happy in the face of adversity. I can dig down deep and find more patience. I can enjoy my life rather than using it as something I do to pass the time. And that's what I'm planning.
norajane Posted December 6, 2008 Posted December 6, 2008 Excellent. Keep going down that path, and you might even realize that you don't need MM at all, that you don't want a soul-sucking part-time affair in your life, and you don't want an affair draining away any of the happiness that you have achieved by living your life.
wildsoul Posted December 6, 2008 Posted December 6, 2008 I can enjoy my life rather than using it as something I do to pass the time. And that's what I'm planning. You can't go wrong with doing that plan! If you stay with him, it will help you stay more centered. If you decide to move on, it won't feel like you've lost everything. Perhaps the middle road is to focus on the things you're talking about and not make any decisions about the R yet.
frannie Posted December 6, 2008 Posted December 6, 2008 I'm feeling better than I was the day I started posting here. Not that it has anything to do with the situation having improved. I actually think that thinking about leaving him made me feel worse than anything he has done or failed to do. Why should I be forced to break up with someone I still love because he's acting like a coward? No one is forcing you to break up with him because he's acting like a coward. You still want him (or feel you need him?) enough that, even though he is hurting you by acting like a coward, you don't feel you can pull away. But one day it might be that you lose patience or feel that he's hurt you enough, that his putting his own fears or needs ahead of yours has gone on far too long. That day you'll pull away, but not before.
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