FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I just discovered this forum. I'm an OW in a 2 year relationship - we've been happy, we've been caught, he's been separated, we've been separated, and right now we're together. But I am nearing my wit's end. We didn't plan for things to go this far. This was supposed to be fun. It was supposed to be simple. But we ended up in love with each other. He's supposed to be leaving his wife. I know he loves me, and I believe he hasn't loved her for a long time. But it seems like something always comes up to stop him. I know he's nervous and scared and I'm trying to be as patient as possible. I've done everything I can think of to make this easier, but it doesn't seem to be doing any good. I know I can't understand his fear over the way people, his family and friends, will view him if he leaves his wife for another woman, but I am slowly losing my mind. I can't imagine giving him up, giving up all the things I still want to do and have with him. As terrible as this sounds, I am a better choice than his W. I know she doesn't deserve what's happening to her, but by every objective measure, I'm a better choice. And he has no expectation that the marriage with her will actually work out in the long term, and he's going to lose me if he doesn't take action soon because I can't do this forever. I guess what I really want to know is whether there are people here who were able to support and yes, push their married counter-parts to take the final step. What can I say or do to help calm his fears or better understand what he needs in order to finally give us all some peace?
bentnotbroken Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 And since you both have pretty low standards, you are probably right you are a better choice for him. You to don't mind hurting someone else for your own needs. She does deserve a real man, and since you are more than willing to deal with a liar(birds of a feather and all), I hope you get your heart's desire.
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 And since you both have pretty low standards, you are probably right you are a better choice for him. You to don't mind hurting someone else for your own needs. She does deserve a real man, and since you are more than willing to deal with a liar(birds of a feather and all), I hope you get your heart's desire. Um, thanks for the kind and generous response.
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 Oh, and I forgot to mention - there are no children tying him to her.
bentnotbroken Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 My response has nothing to do with generosity and you have no idea if I am kind or not. I spoke the truth as I see it, you aren't required to like, agree or even respond to it. It is a public board that you decided to declare you are a better fit for the cheater and I agreed with you, wholeheartedly.
bentnotbroken Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 And I forgot to mention, that children aren't tethers or ropes. They are living breathing humans,
greengoddess Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 LOL Hmmm you better look at his actions. They are not pointing towards you. He has no kids. He was caught. She knows so the whole fear of what people think holds no water. They already know he's a cheat. If his choice was you, having no kids, he should have claimed to his wife I'm sorry I love her and bowed out of the marriage. Why would he choose to stay when he was caugh? Do you have any idea how difficult his life had to hve been with her after being caught and he still chose to fight for his marriage instead of running off with you. Look at his actions. Not what he tells you. His actions are he goes home to his wife every night.
2sure Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 MM tell OW a million reasons why they have an affair in the first place: Marriage in name only, no sex, wife is crazy, wife is cold. etc. This justifies the affair and makes him into poor good guy. Then Wife finds out and throws him out. Only MM tells OW he LEFT. For her. Meanwhile, he tries like hell to get back into the marriage and reconcile. Tells Wife OW is crazy, lies, tricked him, is suicidal. Tells OW his wife is depressed and he has to go see her or that his kids needs him. Wife lets H back into Marriage. MM continues to see OW, telling her he will leave for good when finances are in order, wife recovers from illness, kids graduate high school...just wait for him. Its ironic that the one person most afftected by the affair is the wife who originally knows nothing about it. Its ironic because at the end of an affair she is the one holding EVERYONES cards. The scenerio doesnt change much.
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 When we got caught, he waited a couple of weeks then left her for me, though he told her it was because he didn't want to be married anymore. He felt guilty and was terrified we would run into her somewhere. Things were great at first until his guilt kicked in. He made the mistake of still talking to her, letting her tell him how much he had hurt her and how awful he was because he felt like he owed her that much. You can guess what happened. He went back and we stopped talking. We were miserable without each other and began talking occassionally. He decided again that he wanted to leave her. He tried again, blaming it on the marriage. This time, though, because of an external emergency, his suggestion of divorce was completely ignored and he hasn't pushed it. This time, he knows he can't talk to her again once he makes his decision. But still he's worried. When they separated before, his family and friends had no idea there was an affair at fault or another woman involved. This time, everyone would know. When he and his wife separated the first time, I didn't know enough to expect him to feel guilty and neither did he. We both thought it was an indication that he'd made a mistake. But since that time, I have learned that some feelings of guilt are normal and should be expected. Unfotrunately, the first false start has really left him feeling skittish. In the meantime, here we are - having an affair again while he debates when/how/if he can make a clean break and enjoy a life with me. His wife has no idea we're seeing each other again, though she did remark recently how much happier he has seemed the last couple of months. I just don't know what to do. I don't want it to seem like I will tolerate waiting forever, but I also don't want to push him into making a decision he isn't completely ready to make. Maybe what I need is just a good dose of patience. Or maybe this is just a lost cause.
2sure Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 "..because of an external emergency, his suggestion of divorce was completely ignored and he hasn't pushed it. . Oh! Well, hey...he suggested divorce and wife ignored it. What more can you possibly expect from him? Was the external emergency an illness, a financial crisis, job loss, death...any one of life's circumstances that constantly plague us? He suggested divorce? And once again, for whatever reason...wife will not let him?
greengoddess Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 His wife has no idea we're seeing each other again, though she did remark recently how much happier he has seemed the last couple of months. Wow interesting so you know her or is this somethinghe told you to make you feel good that you make him so happy? You don't think it is cruel to her to know that she is trying to save her marriage after catching you and you just don't care and will continue on and disregard her marriage? Do you not feel it is cruel to her for him to continue lying daily to her and they have to be huge lies because I'm sure she asks constantly if he has ever spoken with you. Open your eyes. He has the best of both worlds. One woman at home to love and share adult responsibilities with and one woman on the side to escape to and get away from responsibility for a bit. Soon he won't leave because she tricked him into getting pregnant. The stories are all the same and the women who believe these men, the wives and the other women waste years of their lives on a cheater with nothing but bitter memories of sharing an ass. You want to push him to decide? Tell him you are done. That you value yourself to much to share someone she loves. That if he loved you he wouldn't go home to her. Tell him to finish his life with her before you can be with him. Pick your head up and be proud. Stop letting him hide you in the shadows.
Cliche Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 FLS, Despite what some on here say, not all MM are alike. Some are players. Many will stay with their wives. But some of them are at the tailend of a marriage and will leave and start a new life with an OW. I don't know which one your MM is, but I will tell you what are a couple of red flags for me...1. he went back to his wife and 2. you said he is debating "if" he should leave. There are a few of us on here who are now committed partners to our former MMs. The one common thread I've seen run through those who do eventually leave is that there never was an "if." There was always a when, and sometimes a when that went on for far too long, but never an if. Be careful about that. Also, at some point you'll have to be prepared to take your life back for you. Whether or not he joins you will be his choice, and you'll have to let him be prepared to make it, and then you'll have to respect it. I'm sorry you're going through this. Good luck.
frannie Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Hello FLS, welcome to the forum. ... he has no expectation that the marriage with her will actually work out in the long term, and he's going to lose me if he doesn't take action soon because I can't do this forever. I think that this is the crux of the matter... it sounds like the marriage is not broken up enough yet (he talks of not working out long term), meanwhile you are giving every sign of being able to hang on and give him more time. I'm guessing here, but he's probably doing that thing where he weighs up which woman wants/needs him more and what can he possibly get away with in the short term. He's probably thinking day-to-day, dealing with each woman's complaints as they come up. The longer you remain 'understanding' of his (genuine) fears, the longer you'll be in this pattern, jmho. However, if you say you're out of patience, right now! he may equally as well stay with her (you've made your decision, so he doesn't have to deal with it), as he may leap out again and face his fears. Essentially you're at a stalemate. And in honesty I don't know what the best thing to do IS in this situation (where the OW does not want to lose the MM): I've been there myself ten times or more. I usually give up and go NC. My MM is very much the type to do nothing whatever at that point, because like yours he talks of the marriage not surviving 'long term'. No use to me! You don't think it is cruel to her to know that she is trying to save her marriage after catching you and you just don't care and will continue on and disregard her marriage? Do you not feel it is cruel to her for him to continue lying daily to her and they have to be huge lies because I'm sure she asks constantly if he has ever spoken with you. I think it's incredibly cruel. Amazing what a man will do at times, isn't it? You'd think these 'kind' men who don't like to hurt either of the women in their lives would realise they're actually slowly crucifying the both of them. You want to push him to decide? Tell him you are done. That you value yourself to much to share someone she loves. That if he loved you he wouldn't go home to her. Tell him to finish his life with her before you can be with him. Pick your head up and be proud. Stop letting him hide you in the shadows. Agreed this is the better choice, and likely to lead to a resolution. The problem being that the OP says she's not ready to live without him. The question is, is he ready to live without her?
Belle28 Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I know it is very easy to criticize but when it comes to feelings we are all capable of bending our own rules and principles. I am sorry that you got yourself involved in such a situation. You should have seen this coming. People can tell you what they want if they want to conquer you - everyone wants to have their cake and eat it. Actions speak louder than words and he is still with his wife. If I were you I would pull myself together and would distance myself from this mess. If he really loves you he will come after you. If he is confronted with the fact that he is going to lose you he will have to make a choice in his own time. However, if you force him to make up his mind this won't be HIS decision. Worse, he will probably feel that, after all you have gone through and you being aware of how difficult this situation is, you are making it even worse by putting pressure on him. That is not appreciated in a woman AT ALL. Trust me, if he has come back to you once because he loved you and not because he doesn't love his wife anymore and wants a bit on the side, he will look for you again. As I said, in his own time... You just can't keep on doing this to yourself. If things start from such a turbulent relationship how can it ever work between the two of you? In the future you will always be thinking - this is how i met my husband... Just disappear for a while and let him sort out what is HIS mess. If when he does, you are still available fine. If not, that means you have found someone better...
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 Thanks for all the responses and the advice. If I break it off with him, I plan to do it all the way - new job, new city, new email and cell phone. Fortunately, I'm at a place in my life where that's possible, even if not very convenient. If I stay where I am, we will keep falling back together. But because I'm determined to make a clean and permanent break (if I break), it makes it harder to decide to do it. I don't want to make the decision out of anger or frustration but rather because I really am ready to let him go. In the meantime, I'm angry, hurt, and frustrated. I sometimes share this with him and sometimes try to just enjoy the moments we're together. I don't want to create a situation where he can dismiss my feelings but also do not want everything about our relationship to become unpleasant because all we ever talk about is when/how he's going to leave his wife. I don't want to issue an ultimatum, and I don't want to make it too easy for him to not take action. I feel like I don't have any appealing choices and am therefore paralyzed, unable to decide which of my options I want the least. Normally, I identify what I want and then do what it takes to achieve it. In this case, though, I identified him as what I want, leaving me with little in the way of tools to "achieve" my goal. Aside from him, I have a very normal, well-balanced life - friends, family, interests, a good job - and I stay busy. But no matter how busy I am, I can never quite reach a point where I'm distracted. I have taken trips without him where I spent the whole time wishing he were with me and mentally noting all the things I'd like to do if we ever travelled there together. I have friends who know all about him, but none of them have ever been in my position so they don't feel all that qualified to offer advice. I run, I do yoga, I have a punching bag, and I still feel like throwing things. I'm not used to feeling helpless, but right now that's exactly how I feel. I've never let myself give up on something I wanted just because things got hard; why should I start now? Usually, though, I have a lot more control over the circumstances than I have now.
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 "..because of an external emergency, his suggestion of divorce was completely ignored and he hasn't pushed it. . Was the external emergency an illness, a financial crisis, job loss, death...any one of life's circumstances that constantly plague us? He suggested divorce? And once again, for whatever reason...wife will not let him? The external crisis was actually pretty unique, the sort of thing that will never happen again. I have to admit, I was really shaken up by it as well. He had voiced his desire for divorce to her right before this happened and then while he was dealing with the crisis, he simply failed to pursue what he had said, thus allowing his wife to simply pretend it had never happened. Obviously, this isn't a matter of the wife "not letting him," but since he will be the one staying in the house, he feels awful enough and is loathe to give her a deadline by which she must move out. Of course, he could and should go ahead and file even if he wants to be flexible about her departure from the house. The man truly hates conflict. He was under the mistaken impression that he would tell her he wants a divorce and that she would simply say okay instead of pushing him to define his reasons and justify the timing. He was not prepared for it to be a disagreement. His wife is not happy with him either, and he did not really think she would try and talk him out of it. I know it sounds like I'm making excuses for him, and I am a little bit. Maybe I should stop. I just don't want to be judgmental; what's easy for me is not necessarily easy for him.
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 Wow interesting so you know her or is this somethinghe told you to make you feel good that you make him so happy? You don't think it is cruel to her to know that she is trying to save her marriage after catching you and you just don't care and will continue on and disregard her marriage? Do you not feel it is cruel to her for him to continue lying daily to her and they have to be huge lies because I'm sure she asks constantly if he has ever spoken with you. Open your eyes. He has the best of both worlds. One woman at home to love and share adult responsibilities with and one woman on the side to escape to and get away from responsibility for a bit. Soon he won't leave because she tricked him into getting pregnant. The stories are all the same and the women who believe these men, the wives and the other women waste years of their lives on a cheater with nothing but bitter memories of sharing an ass. You want to push him to decide? Tell him you are done. That you value yourself to much to share someone she loves. That if he loved you he wouldn't go home to her. Tell him to finish his life with her before you can be with him. Pick your head up and be proud. Stop letting him hide you in the shadows. His wife and I share a friend. She commented to our mutual friend that he seemed so much happier and the friend repeated it to me. No, the mutual friend is not spying and does not know all the circumstances, though I think he knows more than we ever say out loud to each other. I know he likely lies to her everyday. He lies about his whereabouts, whether he has talked to me, and what he is thinking about at a given moment. Some part of me feels badly about that. But I have to admit, another part of me feels annoyed with his wife - why doesn't she just let him go? Why fight to stay married to someone who says they don't want to be married to you? Why stay married to someone who isn't making you happy? What stay married to someone who cheated on you and lied about it? I find myself wondering why she doesn't have more self-respect. I know that makes me sound like an awful person. I know there are people who are saying, "Yeah, well, what about your self-respect?" I know there are a million things wrong with what I just said. But I feel it anyway, however wrong and unfair it is, it's something I feel. I don't want to push him to decide so much as I want to make it easier for him to do it and to encourage him to do it sooner rather than later. It has to be his choice that he reached because I'm what he wants, not because I forced him to. I don't want to manipulate him and if I tell him I'm done just to make him choose me, then that's exactly what I'm doing.
Author FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 23, 2008 Author Posted November 23, 2008 FLS, Despite what some on here say, not all MM are alike. Some are players. Many will stay with their wives. But some of them are at the tailend of a marriage and will leave and start a new life with an OW. I don't know which one your MM is, but I will tell you what are a couple of red flags for me...1. he went back to his wife and 2. you said he is debating "if" he should leave. There are a few of us on here who are now committed partners to our former MMs. The one common thread I've seen run through those who do eventually leave is that there never was an "if." There was always a when, and sometimes a when that went on for far too long, but never an if. Be careful about that. Also, at some point you'll have to be prepared to take your life back for you. Whether or not he joins you will be his choice, and you'll have to let him be prepared to make it, and then you'll have to respect it. I'm sorry you're going through this. Good luck. He did go back to his wife once. We both had some unreasonable expectations - we thought it would be all sunshine and puppies instead of recognizing that it would be hard and that there would be times he might feel like he didn't deserve to be happy because of the way he had hurt someone else. If you don't mind me asking, you seemed to indicate you are now committed to your former MM.... I assume that means he's no longer married and is just with you? Did he leave for you? How did it come about? And how did you deal with any negative feelings (if there were any) as they came up after he left? The "if" in the equation is not really related to whether his marriage to his wife will end or to whether he will want me in his life when it does. The "if" is really about whether his marriage can end in a way that he and I can both feel good about. If he waits and lets it wind down naturally or for his wife to end it, then I can never be happy with him knowing he did not choose me. He is concerned that if he leaves for me, he won't be able to enjoy being with me because of the guilt. We are working hard to find a way for us to both have what we need. I genuinely believe he is a good man and would be a good partner to me. He is honest with me even when he knows I will not like what he has to say. This is not something he has done with his wife or in any other relationship. We've spent many hours talking about why he reached a point in his marriage where he was willing to cheat on his wife (and he has taken responsibility for his own failings rather than blaming her for not loving him enough or giving him enough attention) as well as how we would make sure something like that never happens in ours. He is worthy of my devotion and my patience; it's just becoming so hard that I hardly know what to do.
Spinning Head Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 FLS - The reason you cannot attain the 'goal' of having MM is because you can't control what he does. I have had the same problem as well. I am used to reaching my goals and, in some sense, wanting to be with my MM is a goal; however, I have come to realize that no matter what arguments I make, problems I point out, etc., ultimately, the decision is MM's decision to make. I have been involved with my MM for over a year. Things reached a head and exploded a couple of months ago. MM's W found out about us and MM stayed with W - that would have been a perfect opportunity for him to leave his M. After two months of no contact, MM and I reconnected and I am back where I was two months ago. Today is a big day in that MM is supposedly telling his family that he wants a divorce and will be leaving. Honestly, I don't think he has the b#lls to do it. The fear of change can be paralyzing. I wish you good luck in your relationship. I suggest that you move on, and, yes, I need to heed my own advice.
whichwayisup Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Today is a big day in that MM is supposedly telling his family that he wants a divorce and will be leaving. He's telling his wife and kids that he's leaving them, just before the holidays? I think you're right, he doesn't have the balls and sorry to say this, but the chances of him following through on what he's told you he's GOING to do, probably won't happen.
Spinning Head Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 WWIU - I agree, the timing is not good. I have not heard from him today, which is unusual. I am expecting not to hear from him or, if I do, that he will wait until a date certain to separate. But, I have been down that road before and it was a dead end road.
norajane Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 The man truly hates conflict Yep, and that's why he's having an affair instead of facing the issues in his marriage and choosing to work on them or divorce. That's always who he will be - that will never change. But I have to admit, another part of me feels annoyed with his wife - why doesn't she just let him go? Why fight to stay married to someone who says they don't want to be married to you? Why stay married to someone who isn't making you happy? It doesn't matter why she's doing what she's doing. It's her life, her marriage, she's going to do what makes sense to her. You should be asking these exact same questions to MM. HE also has a choice and he's not making it. Why doesn't he just let her go? Why stay married to someone who isn't making him happy? I find myself wondering why she doesn't have more self-respect. I know that makes me sound like an awful person. I know there are people who are saying, "Yeah, well, what about your self-respect?" I know there are a million things wrong with what I just said. But I feel it anyway, however wrong and unfair it is, it's something I feel. Actually, the real question is: Why doesn't MM have respect for either you or his wife? Why is he treating both of you like crap and making both of you miserable? I don't want to push him to decide so much as I want to make it easier for him to do it and to encourage him to do it sooner rather than later. It has to be his choice that he reached because I'm what he wants, not because I forced him to. I don't want to manipulate him and if I tell him I'm done just to make him choose me, then that's exactly what I'm doing.You aren't making any decisions and choices for your life either. You're staying in a relationship that makes you miserable on a daily basis. Why? You've been doing this for two long years? Why? How many more years are you prepared to "encourage" him to keep doing what he's doing? Ask yourself: If you were dating a single man, and after two years, he was still not certain of whether he should be with you or not, what would you do?
greengoddess Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 His wife and I share a friend. She commented to our mutual friend that he seemed so much happier and the friend repeated it to me. No, the mutual friend is not spying and does not know all the circumstances, though I think he knows more than we ever say out loud to each other. I know he likely lies to her everyday. He lies about his whereabouts, whether he has talked to me, and what he is thinking about at a given moment. Some part of me feels badly about that. But I have to admit, another part of me feels annoyed with his wife - why doesn't she just let him go? Why fight to stay married to someone who says they don't want to be married to you? Why stay married to someone who isn't making you happy? What stay married to someone who cheated on you and lied about it? I find myself wondering why she doesn't have more self-respect. I know that makes me sound like an awful person. I know there are people who are saying, "Yeah, well, what about your self-respect?" I know there are a million things wrong with what I just said. But I feel it anyway, however wrong and unfair it is, it's something I feel. I don't want to push him to decide so much as I want to make it easier for him to do it and to encourage him to do it sooner rather than later. It has to be his choice that he reached because I'm what he wants, not because I forced him to. I don't want to manipulate him and if I tell him I'm done just to make him choose me, then that's exactly what I'm doing. Those are questions you need to ask him. She does not know the truth. She thinks he is much happier now. He lies to her everyday and she believes him. She thinks he chose her and dumped you and it was just a bump in the marriage. It's not she has no self respect. It's that she does not have the truth. Let her find out the truth and then you could ask her that. The real question is why does HE fight to stay married to someone he doesn't want to be with. With someone that doesn't make him happy. Watch his actions not what he tells you he says to her. He could be telling her he loves her and you meant nothing. His actions show it is her. He goes home to her. I won't even mention why do you because you alreaady said you need to ask you that and you aren't even married to the man like she is. Don't let this man have the best of both worlds. You are a crutch to his marriage. ip that crutch away and see what he chooses. To stand tall with you proudly to the world or to continue to limp along in his marriage.
greengoddess Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I don't want to push him to decide so much as I want to make it easier for him to do it and to encourage him to do it sooner rather than later. It has to be his choice that he reached because I'm what he wants, not because I forced him to. I don't want to manipulate him and if I tell him I'm done just to make him choose me, then that's exactly what I'm doing. No it is not. It is telling him you value yourself more than to be someones hidden secret. That's not a relationship. A relationship is proud to be seen in public together.
GreenEyedLady Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 He did go back to his wife once. We both had some unreasonable expectations - we thought it would be all sunshine and puppies instead of recognizing that it would be hard and that there would be times he might feel like he didn't deserve to be happy because of the way he had hurt someone else. The "if" is really about whether his marriage can end in a way that he and I can both feel good about. If he waits and lets it wind down naturally or for his wife to end it, then I can never be happy with him knowing he did not choose me. We are working hard to find a way for us to both have what we need. He is honest with me even when he knows I will not like what he has to say. THe is worthy of my devotion and my patience; it's just becoming so hard that I hardly know what to do. I really don't understand the getting back together with the MM after he has went back to his W. You've made yourself an option, and not an attractive one. You've indicated that your needs are not important, by remaining with someone who has rejected you for someone else. He also indicates through his actions that he cannot deal with conflict with YOU and HER. Quite frankly, he is making excuses and you are allowing it, buying into it and validating it. I think you are not being honest with yourself. The "if" is really "when"; when are you are going to say enough is enough and make YOUR needs the priority. He should not be your focus, his M should not be your focus. Your focus should be getting what you need/want. If he cannot do that, then you need to find someone who can. He needs to be the OPTION, not the other way around. A man will treat you the way you let him. Demand more for yourself. Words are simply words. He will say whatever he thinks will make you stay a little bit longer. And don't EVER think he is telling you the 100% truth. That is the biggest mistake an OW can make. He is not telling you the truth. Take what he says and multiply it by 2. Maybe he will leave, eventually. But will you even want him them? It's one thing to love someone, but in loving someone you have to love WHO they are, the good parts and the bad parts. You are only seeing what you want to see. Be honest with yourself. No one's perfect. But the key is to understand who he is, who you are and safeguard your R. You can't do that while he's gaslighting both of you. Make the decision for him. Why is it up to him? He does A, B happens. He doesn't A, then walk away and find someone who will love you enough to stop hurting you and everyone else in his life. You will never make it to a happy, healthy R until you stop making excuses. I know. I am with my MM, but now he's married to me.
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