Question for MEN only about hookers, really better than "civilian" women?

[Mending1985]

And sorry to say, but most women "spread em" for some reason or another whether it be for money, status or just to get LOVE.

[Mending1985]

Most working girls have no problem with what they are doing! The really professional ones own houses, nice cars, some actually have families.

 

I worked to pay off my debts, and once I had done that, I quit. I wasn't being used. I was using the MEN to get what I wanted!

[Trialbyfire]

Yup, yup, women hate to have sex with men they're in love with. They do it to buy love. There's no pleasure in it! :lmao:

[ipetree]

Use them? They are getting paid. They are using the men.

 

One night stands are the girls whom are getting used. lol

[Mending1985]

Yup, yup, women hate to have sex with men they're in love with. They do it to buy love. There's no pleasure in it! :lmao:

 

Oh TBF - open your little mind to the opinions of other people. Havent you ever heard the phrase "Men give love to get sex, and women give sex to get love"?

 

Just because you like sex (and so do i) doesn't mean there aren't women out there who DON'T and do it for affection, love, a relationship - that's what I'm referring to. Again, not a personal attack on you although you seem to think it is as you can't stop responding to my posts....

 

Why not just leave it at differing opinions? We aren't going to agree, we are on total opposite sides of this argument.

 

You hate hookers and I used to be one. See how easy that was to break down?

 

Say what you want to that, I'm done with arguing with you on this. You refuse to see the other side.

[Mending1985]

Use them? They are getting paid. They are using the men.

 

One night stands are the girls whom are getting used. lol

 

Exactly! Well said :-)

[Trialbyfire]

Oh TBF - open your little mind to the opinions of other people. Havent you ever heard the phrase "Men give love to get sex, and women give sex to get love"?

 

Just because you like sex (and so do i) doesn't mean there aren't women out there who DON'T and do it for affection, love, a relationship - that's what I'm referring to. Again, not a personal attack on you although you seem to think it is as you can't stop responding to my posts....

 

Why not just leave it at differing opinions? We aren't going to agree, we are on total opposite sides of this argument.

 

You hate hookers and I used to be one. See how easy that was to break down?

 

Say what you want to that, I'm done with arguing with you on this. You refuse to see the other side.

I was pretty certain it was a form of self-justification.

[ipetree]

I think many feminists have the overall perception that men are cheaters, users, abusers, violators, and dangerous. So that's how they view the world.

 

In the case of prostitution they think of the men as being "users", or "abusers". Their minds are tarnished by the media to view men in a negative light, just for being men. The women are the poor victims. Or the "oppressed". Often times they do not even realize their thought patterns are so manipulated and controlled by the media.

 

When in reality in prostitution the woman often times has the upper hand, and uses her feminine ways to get what she wants.

 

I cannot tell you how many times I might have posted an ad on the internet looking to meet a nice girl, and I was bombarded with dozens of women offering sex for money.

[Lizzie60]

Well... bottom line.. what works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other..

 

It works for me.. I have a nice house in the country that I rent, a nice car, just sold the house I had (last summer).. invested my money.. had lots of investments before that.. I have a good full time job (gov't)... go on vacation whenever I can (I have 2 weeks booked for this coming January)...spend my money right and left (shopholic) I have amazing friends, my kids and grand'kid that I adore.. lots of lovers.. most with benefit$.. what more can I ask for?

 

I'm happy... free... fairly rich.. have all the sex I want, when I want, with who I want.. they are all successful, amazing, good looking guys.. they adore me.. we have good chemistry and they would do anything for me.. most of them I've been seeing for over 5 years now.

 

I just hung up with my young MM.. he wants to see me soon.. he's a sweetheart.

 

I can't ask for a better life actually...

 

I feel sad for people who are bitter .. because they are too 'constipated' to have fun and feel the world should think like them and be miserable..

 

I feel sad for women who are desperate for a phone call from their 'jerks' who make them feel like crap most of the time..

 

I wouldn't trade my life with anyone right now..

[Jersey Shortie]

The reason for this is because they can pay her...to go home. This was the best reason I have heard. Men pay hookers to go home. They want the best sex ever, and then they want the best peace and quiet ever. They want that sex without work. They want that sex without the need to talk afterwards.

 

Hmm, that's really something I think some men tell themselves to make themselves feel better. Truth is, in most cases, it is much harder for a man to get laid then a woman. Most women are more picky about who they choose to sleep with. A man is paying a hooker for easy sex. Now men can joke and laugh and say they are paying her to leave but that's a smoke screen for what is really going on and is only said to make the john feel better about having to pay for sex.

 

 

Most men who see prostitutes are ordinary men who either do it for the thrill or do it because they have no sex life at home. Most of these men are very ordinary and "normal." And these men could be your fellow workers, your friend's husband, and even your husband.

 

Then I find something sad and scary about that. The reason this circumstance is such a sensitive topic all around because it is men and women selfishly using the other sex with no other care for the person. At the end of the day, no woman wants to be used for sex and no man really wants to be used for his money. But if you are trying to make it seem like it's normal that men have visited prositutes, then I think there is something very sad in that and speaks about what kind of men we have today.

 

While it feels good to some how classify them as the scum of the earth, in reality, they are every day men who simply enjoy "the hobby."

 

 

No one said or classified men who use hookers as the scum of the earth. Truth is getting a hooker is an easy way out that doesn't speak of any of a man's higher qualities. No woman wants to be with a guy that has to pay for it and is okay with paying for sex. It's a turn off for most women and I think that's perfectly understandable. There is nothing attractive or sexy knowing a man paid for sex no matter how you try to spin it by downplaying with words like "hobby". Hobby is fishing on a boat. Going to hookers isn't a hobby. And if it is a hobby, that that's even sadder.

 

 

Case in point: my two best friends. Both of them have visited escort at some point prior to their current relationships.

Friend # 1: extremely devoted father and husband, handles professional and home life like a wizard...; i aspire to be like him one day.

Friend # 2: extremely devoted to and patient with his girlfriend; to save his relationship he put up with so much **** from her (based on stress, confusion, etc.)that 99% would not even contemplate dealing with; but, he worked it through with her and now they're both times better off for it.

 

So how's them seeing hookers *even relevant to anything*???

 

If their girlfriends knew about this, they'd probably get all upsed and hollier than thou, but this would speak of nothing but their own insecurities and hangups. These guys are nothing but exemplary partners.

 

Lets look at it from the other angle. How many men would want to seriously be invovled with a woman that use to be a hooker? I would bet not many. Not so far fetched to understand why not many women are turned on or attracted to men that were with hookers. What your friends tell their partners is up to them. Hiding being with a hooker is up to them. But they are lying to their gfs in a way by presenting themselves as something they aren't. I don't think men who visit hookers are awful people. But I wouldn't want to be with such a man as it's basically him pandering to the worse common demoninator in himself and not really putting in the effort to learn about women. It's lazy and selfish and 100% unattractive.

[ipetree]

 

I feel sad for women who are desperate for a phone call from their 'jerks' who make them feel like crap most of the time..

 

I wouldn't trade my life with anyone right now..

 

 

LOL, this part is so true..

 

I think in many ways some women are jealous.

 

Some prostitutes are dating wealthy men who take them on vacations, pay for everything, AND EVEN PAY THEM.

 

On the other hand, many civilian woman cannot even get their man to buy them dinner, (or they complain after a while), while he blows them off, or just stops by for sex once in a while, for free, lol.

[Lizzie60]

On the other hand, many civilian woman cannot even get their man to buy them dinner, (or they complain after a while), while he blows them off, or just stops by for sex once in a while, for free, lol.

 

This just made me think of a young couple I just saw in a grocery store..

They were having an argument.. then he said.. 'come on' quite rudely.. he started pushing his cart towards the cashier.. his gf/wife had something in her hands.. (something she apparently wanted a lot)... then she said 'pleeezze can I have it'... and she was slowly walking (sad look) towards him.. I didn't stay to see if she got it.. I had to go... but I felt.. geezzz.. how sad is that.. he's the BOSS... and she has to do whatever HE wants... I see that kind of situation way too often..

[Trialbyfire]

What your friends tell their partners is up to them. Hiding being with a hooker is up to them. But they are lying to their gfs in a way by presenting themselves as something they aren't.

I think this speaks clearly about ethics and values.

[Jersey Shortie]

LOL, this part is so true..

 

I think in many ways some women are jealous.

 

Some prostitutes are dating wealthy men who take them on vacations, pay for everything, AND EVEN PAY THEM.

 

On the other hand, many civilian woman cannot even get their man to buy them dinner, (or they complain after a while), while he blows them off, or just stops by for sex once in a while, for free, lol.

 

I think that says more about men then it does about women. If men are treating hookers/protsitutes better then their own wives and girlfriends that says alot right there about what men do or don't value.

[ipetree]

I think many feminists are trying to twist sex worker debates for their own agendas based on emotional rants, not facts.

 

Men think of sex hundreds of times a day. That's how we are wired.

 

Women think of sex FAR less, and also have the ability to have it with whom they choose, when they choose. They are the choosers.

 

When men pay, it simply allows them to choose with whom, and when.

 

Obviously men should not be paying for hookers if they are married, or have a girlfriend.

[Jersey Shortie]

I think many feminists are trying to twist sex worker debates for their own agendas based on emotional rants, not facts.

 

Who is having emotional rants? I think everyone here is arguing their side very rationally.

 

If men are treating hookers and prostitutes better then their wives or gfs, then that says alot about those men. And it says something kind of sad for men and for women in general.

[movingonandon]

I was pretty certain it was a form of self-justification.

Well of course it was, the point is that her position and self-justification is as valid as yours - and this is the point you apparently have trouble accepting. She does not look down on your perception of the phenomenon, but you do look down on hers. Sorry to break it to you, but your own justification has no inherently higher value than hers or anybody else's. It has exactly the same amount of right to exist out there. You're special, but so is everybody else. (So eat it )

[mental_traveller]

A fat, bald, ugly 60 something man can pick up the phone, and for a few hundred dollars he can get 2 gorgeous young blonde model-lookalikes to visit him and have a threesome in his home. Unless he is rich or famous, his chances of doing that in the normal world are practically zero.

 

Even if you are a buff 25 year old male model, you can get laid in 30 minutes by paying for it. To chat up a woman and take her home could take several hours or more of looking, and you have the likelihood of having to talk with her the next morning, or being an ahole and kicking her out. So if you value your time more than the cost, or you don't want to deal with emotional aspects of picking up normal girls, then visiting a professional could make sense.

 

As for fantasies etc - many women are conservative about that. Even those that are totally liberal, usually won't want to do it within 10 minutes of meeting you. Whereas a prostitute will generally do almost any fantasy imaginable within a few minutes of walking in the door.

 

IMO guys see hookers for:

 

1) convenience (saving time & hassle)

2) control

3) to get something they couldn't get a normal woman to do

 

I don't see why hookers would be any better in bed than normal women. In fact I'd imagine it's the opposite, because a woman who sleeps with you must be attracted to you in some way, whereas a hooker in most cases is just doing it for $$$. A woman who fancies you will be more sexy and put in more effort, have more passion & chemistry than a woman who does not and is only trying to make a buck.

 

So IMO normal women should not feel threatened by hookers (or porn stars). As long as you are passionate in bed with a guy, and willingly discuss fantasies and actually really *want* to have sex with him lots, then 9 times out of 10 he'll be happy.

[OpenBook]

I think in many ways some women are jealous.

 

Some prostitutes are dating wealthy men who take them on vacations, pay for everything, AND EVEN PAY THEM.

 

On the other hand, many civilian woman cannot even get their man to buy them dinner, (or they complain after a while), while he blows them off, or just stops by for sex once in a while, for free, lol.

 

Sheesh. Thank God there are SOME of us out there whose self-esteem doesn't depend on how much money a man is willing to pay us or spend on us!! As if it's up to him IN ANY WAY to determine our worth in the first place... much as he would like to believe. And placing a monetary value on us, as females, is so insulting and degrading, like we're cattle or something. That right there is the beef I have with prostitution. That, and the following point that Taramere brought up:

 

The guy asked for my phone number, and I said no. He asked, in a mocking voice, something like "Because I sleep with Thai girls who might actually need the money because they live in poverty you wouldn't have a clue about...?" There'd been all kinds of righteous arguments presented to us about these girls needing the money, them doing the girls a favour etc etc....stuff I just hadn't wanted to get into with them.

 

I said "I don't want to give you my number. Leave it there." Next thing you know, this prick is screaming God knows what into my face. The bouncers ran over to haul him out, so no real harm done - but it wasn't an episode that left me feeling "Well that opened my eyes and my mind. I must take real care not to be judgemental or make unfair "loser/wanker/misogynist" assumptions about men who make regular use of prostitutes.

 

This is what really worries me about men who frequent prostitutes. It taints their view of women in general... it's got to have some kind of effect! In their testosterone-laden mind they do some really twisted math and assume a frightening sense of entitlement toward any woman they meet. They assume all women are now willing, and they get angry when one of them refuses to go along with what they want.

 

This scares me to death, actually.

[mental_traveller]

Hmm, that's really something I think some men tell themselves to make themselves feel better. Truth is, in most cases, it is much harder for a man to get laid then a woman. Most women are more picky about who they choose to sleep with. A man is paying a hooker for easy sex. Now men can joke and laugh and say they are paying her to leave but that's a smoke screen for what is really going on and is only said to make the john feel better about having to pay for sex.

 

Is that really true? Yes, some guys pay for sex because they can't get it easily otherwise. But some guys who can easily get sex also pay for it. Charlie Sheen did not exactly have problems getting women - and very hot women at that. Yet he still paid thousands of dollars a night for different hookers to come visit him. In fact he said he paid for them to leave. He was paying to avoid the emotional issues and hassle involved with trying to pick up normal girls for meaningless one night stands.

 

In some ways he was being more honest IMO. He could *easily* have gone to any LA nightclub, picked out a few girls of his choice, and probably had sex with several of them that same night. But he would then have to either pretend to be interested in the next morning, or be callous and tell them to get the hell out and/or ignore them and say he just used them to get his rocks off. Or, he could call up a girl, and say "how about I pay you loads of money, you give me a good shag, and then leave after, no strings?". The latter was a more convenient approach for him, and more honest to the girl IMO.

[Trialbyfire]

Well of course it was, the point is that her position and self-justification is as valid as yours - and this is the point you apparently have trouble accepting. She does not look down on your perception of the phenomenon, but you do look down on hers. Sorry to break it to you, but your own justification has no inherently higher value than hers or anybody else's. It has exactly the same amount of right to exist out there. You're special, but so is everybody else. (So eat it )

I'm not self-justifying. Just giving my opinion.

 

I've yet to state that no one else has a right to an opinion. Are you feeling insecure because I don't agree with your stance?

[movingonandon]

Lets look at it from the other angle. How many men would want to seriously be invovled with a woman that use to be a hooker? I would bet not many. Not so far fetched to understand why not many women are turned on or attracted to men that were with hookers. What your friends tell their partners is up to them. Hiding being with a hooker is up to them. But they are lying to their gfs in a way by presenting themselves as something they aren't. I don't think men who visit hookers are awful people. But I wouldn't want to be with such a man as it's basically him pandering to the worse common demoninator in himself and not really putting in the effort to learn about women. It's lazy and selfish and 100% unattractive.

 

Awww, oh so contrived. Whether or not I would date a hooker depends on what kind of a person she is, not whether or not she has been a hooker. Shoking, eh? But I would not write her off *just because* I've somehow become afare that she's been a hooker. Your problem is that you assume that hookers by definition are some sort of troubled or rotten person.

 

As for telling your partner everything.... Puhleeese.... You can only press this point if you have actually never, ever, told a white lie, or at least know a person that has never disguised something from their partner in order not to hurt their feelings. (And if you try to make that case that having seen a hooker is somewhat "different", you're crossing once again in moralistico-selfrighteous land, and I ain't going there again )

[movingonandon]

I'm not self-justifying. Just giving my opinion.

 

I've yet to state that no one else has a right to an opinion. Are you feeling insecure because I don't agree with your stance?

 

The point is that she, and others, can at least see and acknowledge your point, thought do not necessarily agree with it. You do not seem to be able to do that. Basically nobody is judging you anc calling you names, while apparently I'm some sort of a scumbag in your book . I don't care, just shooting you straight. Opinions may or may not change, but you need to allow for new evidence to sink in.

 

For the record, I actually used to share many of the negative views here, until one day, out of curiousity, and with much nervousness, I "called". To my surprise, what I was exposed to was not a dark underground world of crime and degradation, but to a pretty cool chick with great personality that apparently had no problem with providing paid companionship. (After we hung out, she went back to studying for her exams.) I am not an idiot and I understand that there are many other scenarios that are not so innoquous, but that's exactly why I'm advocating a rational approach to the problem, rather than sliding again and again in the never ending moralistic war "this is a scum, that is a scum, everything is scum".

[Trialbyfire]

Why must I change my stance? There's no take away for me. Nothing will change my preferences or opinions.

 

As I've already expressed a million times in this thread, your life, your choices. That's your entitlement. My entitlement is to perceive it the way I want to perceive it. I don't need to accept, understand and most definitely, condone it. It's predatory behaviour and illegal.

[movingonandon]

Why must I change my stance? There's no take away for me. Nothing will change my preferences or opinions.

 

As I've already expressed a million times in this thread, your life, your choices. That's your entitlement. My entitlement is to perceive it the way I want to perceive it. I don't need to accept, understand and most definitely, condone it. It's predatory behaviour and illegal.

 

Im not saying that you *should* change your stance, but only to be open to the possibility that *maybe* you don't know *everything that there is to know* about the issue. If you refuse to even the entertain the possibility, why even bother reading about what others have to say . I don't care what you perceive (neither should you about what I perceive), but about what you have to say in terms of an argument. And you seem to have not much to say other than mostly repeat your perception over and over again, that's no fun, and is certainly not mature .