EnigmaXOXO Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 People who have lax personal boundaries and don’t respect their own relationships just have a more difficult time respecting (or even acknowledging) the personal and relationship boundaries of others. It’s as simple as that.
jwi71 Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 Wrong. It is only HER fault IF she finds out. Some, like myself, don't find out. I only found out AFTER I was dumped. Was it still my fault...? I don't think so. As far as I was concerned, he was my partner. The fact that he was unfaithful whilst he was married was NOT my fault. Oops. That's what I meant to type. You're right, only you're fault if you continue after learning the truth. My bad.
IAmWhoIAm Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 You can allocate precisely the same reasons for both sexes. The bottom line is, that fidelity is harder work than the alternative, because it's actually not natural. This is one of the most intelligent things I've read in this entire thread.
frannie Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 ... I know its possible to get a connection with someone regardless of their marital status, but if you ask me its just plain wrong and usually it won't go nowhere and you will end up hurt in the end cause they most likely will not choose you in the end over their spouse. I got involved with a married person because believe it or not, I did NOT realise the above. I foolishly believed him when he said his marriage was 'over'. I did it because at the time I believed in what he was saying (and as far as I know, so did he). Yes, I realise it is 'wrong' to get involved with a married person, but I didn't go into it thinking it would be an affair. Hilarious, right? I went into it because he gave me the impression he would leave her, not 'for me' (who wants to break up a marriage?), but for himself, and for her (who he didn't love). If only things had been that simple. Experience tells me that most of the time it's just not. Which is why I still post here. I don't like to see it happening to others... but it seems to be neverending. I think if more of those who comment on affairs realised why and how people get themselves into them, then perhaps there would be a little more sympathy. I know, its hard to believe that your spouse (if you're a BS) actually told the OP this stuff and perhaps felt it at the time, so maybe it's something you don't want to read. I'm sure my MM's W wouldn't want to know about it. And I know, it's hard to be sympathetic with people who are making a hash of their lives and other people's into the bargain. But not everyone going into an affair is doing it with their eyes wide open. And maybe you'll find yourself taken for a ride one day, and hope that others will try to help.
FeelLikeScreaming Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 When I started seeing my MM, is was not because he was married, per se, but that he was married certainly made everything easier. I was still very commitment-phobic and a relationship that absolutely could not go anywhere was perfect for me. We agreed to groundrules, including a promise to each other (which we each broke) that if we ever started to have feelings for the other that we would end things. I made sure he was not interested in leaving his wife and he made sure I did not want him to. And then everything changed; we broke all the rules we had set. If we had stuck to the rules, everything would have been fine. At first, his marriage improved substantially. He felt better about himself and was happier and his marriage benefitted from that change. I got everything I wanted in a relationship from him - a friend, great sex, and something to look forward to several times a week. I would not suggest that people looking for a long-term relationship select married people to fulfill that desire. But for those who really want all the benefits of a relationship with none of the scary stuff, married individuals are perfect. I know the next question is why not a single person who isn't interested in commitment? For me, I wanted the romanticism but without the fear of being asked to commit. You don't get that from single guys who just want to have fun. Also, I wanted to be in a pseudo-committed relationship so that the concerns about dating a single guy (think STDs) would not be an issue. And men who are married often make excellent lovers because they are accustomed to learning one person's body and to concentrating on pleasing that one person in ways that are specific to them. That, too, is difficult to find in a single guy who doesn't want to marry you someday. It sounds cold, callous, and unjustifiable. But you wanted an honest answer, right?
Ariadne Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 The number of people who get involved with married people is amazing. I just don't get it. When you have so many available options out here, why get involved with a married person? I know its possible to get a connection with someone regardless of their marital status, but if you ask me its just plain wrong and usually it won't go nowhere and you will end up hurt in the end cause they most likely will not choose you in the end over their spouse. Any feedback is welcome. In my case, because I want to have sex with whomever I want to have sex. If he is interested then that's great.
mopar crazy Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 In my case, because I want to have sex with whomever I want to have sex. If he is interested then that's great. So, what you are saying is that if you want to have sex w/ some guy it doesn't matter if he is M or not?
Ariadne Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 So, what you are saying is that if you want to have sex w/ some guy it doesn't matter if he is M or not? All I care is if he wants to or not, and hope he does.
mopar crazy Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 All I care is if he wants to or not, and hope he does. You didn't answer my question. If a man wants to have sex w/ you it doesn't matter if he is M or not? Who is "he" that you are referring to?
Ariadne Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 You didn't answer my question. If a man wants to have sex w/ you it doesn't matter if he is M or not? Who is "he" that you are referring to? No, those things don't matter. He would be MM.
greengoddess Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I got involved with a married person because believe it or not, I did NOT realise the above. I foolishly believed him when he said his marriage was 'over'. I did it because at the time I believed in what he was saying (and as far as I know, so did he). Yes, I realise it is 'wrong' to get involved with a married person, but I didn't go into it thinking it would be an affair. Hilarious, right? I went into it because he gave me the impression he would leave her, not 'for me' (who wants to break up a marriage?), but for himself, and for her (who he didn't love). If only things had been that simple. Experience tells me that most of the time it's just not. Which is why I still post here. I don't like to see it happening to others... but it seems to be neverending. I think if more of those who comment on affairs realised why and how people get themselves into them, then perhaps there would be a little more sympathy. I know, its hard to believe that your spouse (if you're a BS) actually told the OP this stuff and perhaps felt it at the time, so maybe it's something you don't want to read. I'm sure my MM's W wouldn't want to know about it. And I know, it's hard to be sympathetic with people who are making a hash of their lives and other people's into the bargain. But not everyone going into an affair is doing it with their eyes wide open. And maybe you'll find yourself taken for a ride one day, and hope that others will try to help. Frannie all those years you were with him she never found out did she? Do you think he found another ow when you wouldn't be involved any longer? Do you ever feel like exposing him for the well being of his wife?
greengoddess Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 All I care is if he wants to or not, and hope he does. In other words you are extremely selfish and don't care about anyone but yourself and your needs. Screw his wife and kids.
mopar crazy Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 In other words you are extremely selfish and don't care about anyone but yourself and your needs. Screw his wife and kids. I was thinking the same thing but b4 I said that I wanted to make sure that is what she meant. Ariadne, are you that hard up that you wouldn't care if he was a MM as long as you could get laid? I'm sure there are plenty of SG out there that would just want to f#ck all you wanted. I just can't understand a woman's line of thinking on this. When I was single I had no problem finding a SG to have sex w/. I didn't feel the need to try after a MM. There was plenty of SG to choose from.
Geishawhelk Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 In other words you are extremely selfish and don't care about anyone but yourself and your needs. Screw his wife and kids. I just can't understand a woman's line of thinking on this. When I was single I had no problem finding a SG to have sex w/. I didn't feel the need to try after a MM. There was plenty of SG to choose from. You're both missing the point. It's not Ariadne who's to blame here. She's single, free to choose what she wants to do, and isn't breaking any vows or promises. She's perfectly up-front and clear with those she engages with that this is just for fun. The problem lies with the men who engage with her. They're the ones who are betraying their spouses. Ariadne makes it quite clear that she's not out to break anyone up, she's not clingy she's not needy she's not looking for permanence. They're the selfish ones who seem not to care about their wives and kids. She's going into this completely unattached. They're the ones who can't keep it in their pants. And if it wasn't her, it would be someone else. Like I said before, marriage is a humanly-invented institution. mammals aren't faithful by nature, and Man is a mammal. All this fidelity, honour and 'cleaving unto you until death us do part' is made up by us. If we agree to do something and make promises, recite vows and do this infront of a congregation or witnesses, then we should step up to the plate and stick by it. Ariadne isn't screwing around. They are.
Ariadne Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 In other words you are extremely selfish and don't care about anyone but yourself... You are being judgemental. That means you feel you are better than me.
Ariadne Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Ariadne, are you that hard up that you wouldn't care if he was a MM as long as you could get laid?..There was plenty of SG to choose from. Why would I think about things like marriage and stuff? I just think about the guy I want naked.
Federica Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Members will not engage in personal discussion taking the thread off topic and creating a discussion between a small group of individuals. You risk infractions. Keep on topic, thank you.
Author dema1 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 It was nice to hear everyone's opinion on this topic. Thank you to everyone who participated. Keep the feedbacks coming.
Holding-On Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 ....I will observe that in the case where the conventional marriage is known, often a woman or man will feel more comfortable being herself/himself with the married person. After all the person is taken. So defenses are dropped where they might be otherwise upheld with a single/available person.
OWoman Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 If you get an honest word from a willful adultery partner, I would surprised. Think of them like thieves, rapists, molesters, and other horrible, treacherous humans. Well chrome - or whatever you're calling yourself now - I think you would be very surprised if you actually opened your mind enough to listen to anyone instead of just preaching at them and calling them names all the time. there have been plenty of "willfuladultery partners" on here speaking honestly, even if you don't happen to recognise it. Listening to, rather than just screaming at, other people could help you learn a lot and get over that terrible anger that's still consuming you and leaving you unable to move on with your life and healing.
OWoman Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 because the OW doesn't value M. Since she has no belief in the traditional views of M she will obviously not feel any moral qualms about pursuing a MM. That would be me. Actually, my reasons were pretty similar to Lizzie's - and despite Mopar's claim that you can get that from SGs too, I think that's only if you're interested in men who're still in nappies. Once guys hit the age that I'd consider, they've moved out of that space and just want to settle down and make babies. So you land up with a choice of (1) the damaged, divorced, emotionally needy; or (2) the never married - and you can see why, or (3) decent guys, normal, stable, hot... who happen to be married to someone else. Or at least start out that way...
OWoman Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 You're both missing the point. It's not Ariadne who's to blame here. She's single, free to choose what she wants to do, and isn't breaking any vows or promises. She's perfectly up-front and clear with those she engages with that this is just for fun. The problem lies with the men who engage with her. They're the ones who are betraying their spouses. Ariadne makes it quite clear that she's not out to break anyone up, she's not clingy she's not needy she's not looking for permanence. They're the selfish ones who seem not to care about their wives and kids. She's going into this completely unattached. They're the ones who can't keep it in their pants. And if it wasn't her, it would be someone else. Like I said before, marriage is a humanly-invented institution. mammals aren't faithful by nature, and Man is a mammal. All this fidelity, honour and 'cleaving unto you until death us do part' is made up by us. If we agree to do something and make promises, recite vows and do this infront of a congregation or witnesses, then we should step up to the plate and stick by it. Ariadne isn't screwing around. They are. This is a very sensible post and I can find little, if anything, to disagree with. But I do want to point out (again... ) that not all marital vows - particular those secular ones in a magistrates court - involve making promises of fidelity or sexual exclusiveness, so technically those people have not broken any vows.
jwi71 Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 That would be me. Actually, my reasons were pretty similar to Lizzie's - and despite Mopar's claim that you can get that from SGs too, I think that's only if you're interested in men who're still in nappies. Once guys hit the age that I'd consider, they've moved out of that space and just want to settle down and make babies. So you land up with a choice of (1) the damaged, divorced, emotionally needy; or (2) the never married - and you can see why, or (3) decent guys, normal, stable, hot... who happen to be married to someone else. Or at least start out that way... Forgive me if I have you confused with another...but aren't you getting married? Or have serious plans to anyway? If so, may i ask what brough about the change of heart?
Author dema1 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 I will observe that in the case where the conventional marriage is known, often a woman or man will feel more comfortable being herself/himself with the married person. After all the person is taken. So defenses are dropped where they might be otherwise upheld with a single/available person. I have to agree, for some its easier to be themselves with a taken/married person. However, it does not apply for everyone including me. If you ask me, with a single/available person, its easy to be yourself because you know you have nothing to lose and a lot to gain. On the other hand, with a taken/married person, you have nothing to lose, and nothing to gain at the same time.
OWoman Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Forgive me if I have you confused with another...but aren't you getting married? Or have serious plans to anyway? If so, may i ask what brough about the change of heart? We want to live together. (Have been these past few months, and have in chunks in teh past). But we are citizens of different countries, and the only way to be together full-time for longer than 6 months at a time is to get married, to get right of residence as a spouse (whichever way, in whosever country).
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