Update on the life of a Planofool

[Bryanp]

I will repeat what I said to you a long time ago and of course it made no difference to you but here goes: You judge a person by their actions (or lack of actions) and not by their words. Her actions speak volumes about how little respect she has for your feelings. If you do not respect yourself then who will? My guess is that you are so beaten down that your life will not change much. She has spent almost your entire marriage emotionally and finally physically cheating on you with her cousin. My guess writing on this forum is some sort of therapy for you. This is who you are, this is who she is and this is your life. You choose to live the life your wish by your lack of actions. Not making a choice is in fact a choice. You have chosen to live your life the way it is. I wish you luck.

[Planofool]

Bryanp, I agree with what you are saying and I would like to know how I can get myself to make that choice.

 

Yes, writing on here is great therapy and it also is somewhat of a wake up call. I hear what you'all are saying I just need to figure out how to get myself to do something about it. I guess I am afraid.

[Dexter Morgan]

Bryanp, I agree with what you are saying and I would like to know how I can get myself to make that choice.

 

You are going to have to get angry and decide you aren't going to put up with her s##t any longer.

 

You need to see her for what she is, a cheater that isn't going to change. The fact that she lied to you and kept the OM's pictures is proof of that.

 

Then she doesn't even have the female equivalent of balls to destroy the pictures herself since she obviously would be emotionally devestated to throw anything away that will remind her of her fondness for this OM.

 

If that isn't reason enough for you to stand up, get angry and say "get the f##k out!!!!", I don't know what does other than catching her in your own bed with another guy.

[Kasan]

I guess I am afraid.

 

This isn't the first time that you have stated this.............

 

Take your baby steps.............you have the bedroom cleaned up and notice, you have put your foot down about the photos and she has gotten rid of them--albeit took them to her mother's house.

 

Systematically continue the cleaning through all the rooms in your house.

 

I wonder if cleaning up the clutter in your house is also giving you some clarity about your marriage and your family? I suspect your thought process regarding these issues will be quite different when the cleaning and purging are finally done.

 

And......if she says for you to get rid of memorabilia from her exes, I would run to the nearest garbage can with this stuff.

 

This isn't going to be easy, and it's going to take a long time. You will start to backslide and feel like an a** for getting on her case, but stick with it..............we'll help all we can.

[Planofool]

You guys realize, most of the stuff in our bedroom is stuff she bought. There is thousands of dollars worth of stuff. I can't just throw it away.

 

Update on the counseling. She said they got on line at work and got her the phone number to call for counseling. She works 3rd shift so she couldn't call then. But she had also told me before she called twice and they didn't return her call, so why did she not have the number allready?

 

I asked her last night what she was going to talk to the therapist about and she pointed to the room full of stuff. I said well I have a list of things I want you to ask. She said what else is there? She was serious.

[Owl]

You guys realize, most of the stuff in our bedroom is stuff she bought. There is thousands of dollars worth of stuff. I can't just throw it away.

 

Yes, you can. If you're not using it...if it's just sitting there...it's of no VALUE, regardless of what it cost to buy. Think about that real hard.

 

If you're afraid of it "going to waste"...then identify what is still usable in it's present condition, and make arrangements to have it donated to Good Will/Salvation Army/Big Brothers/etc....

 

Update on the counseling. She said they got on line at work and got her the phone number to call for counseling. She works 3rd shift so she couldn't call then. But she had also told me before she called twice and they didn't return her call, so why did she not have the number allready?

 

I asked her last night what she was going to talk to the therapist about and she pointed to the room full of stuff. I said well I have a list of things I want you to ask. She said what else is there? She was serious.

 

So spell it out for her, clearly, concisely, and unmistakeably.

 

Make it crystal clear what all is wrong in your marriage and situation, and what you NEED from her to make it right. Don't hedge to make her feel better...that's what led you to where you're at right now to begin with.

 

Don't TRY. DO.

 

Point blank. You CAN do something about this, Plano...you've just avoided doing so for so long you're afraid to now. Time to break those bad habits.

[Kasan]

You guys realize, most of the stuff in our bedroom is stuff she bought. There is thousands of dollars worth of stuff. I can't just throw it away.

 

So................you are finding a way to make an excuse for her behavior.

 

You want the bedroom cleaned, but you can't bring yourself to throw away the stuff due to the monetary value.

 

So the mixed message I am hearing--I hate the stuff, gave an ultimatum to the wife to clean it up, but I won't take an active role in getting rid of it because of the money I have invested in it.

 

I wonder what mixed messages your wife is hearing..........you mean business, well maybe sorta, or not really at all. And you wonder why she totally ignores your ultimatums?

 

Just sayin.........

[Planofool]

OK, not trying to make an excuse for her behavior, just asking what you do with 4 tubs of picture frames, 3 tubs of Mary Kay, 1 tub of greeting cards, bags and bags of socks blankets and so on and so on. According to the therapist if I get rid of it all she will buy more.

She needs help to learn to quit shopping and hoarding plus all of her other issues. I am not trying to send the wrong message.

[Owl]

Again...simple.

 

You either trash it or give it all away to a charity.

 

You take away her access to money to buy more.

 

She can't buy more if she doesn't have the funds to do so.

 

This is NOT rocket science.

 

It's only complex if you MAKE it complex.

[Owl]

Let me clarify...my wife and I occasionally have similar issues...but not near to the degree that you do from the sounds of it.

 

My wife and I both have a habit of buying stuff we don't need. About once a year, I need to go through our basement and our closets and get rid of stuff we've accumulated.

 

How hard is it, REALLY, to just bag the stuff up and cart it off so that she can't pull it out of the trash? And to keep her from buying more, you need to remove her access to the finances.

 

Frankly, she's proven she can't be trusted with that access. She buys crap that you don't need, that clutters your house and life far far beyond reason.

 

SO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

 

She can't buy more if she doesn't have the money to do so. Getting rid of stuff is NOT that tough...you just GET RID OF IT.

 

See where I'm coming from? Its only tough when you MAKE it tough.

[Planofool]

She works and makes damn good money. She has credit cards, check book and cash. You tell me how to stop her buying power.

[Kasan]

She works and makes damn good money. She has credit cards, check book and cash. You tell me how to stop her buying power.

 

Well, you can cancel her credit cards............probably not to difficult to do in this economy.

 

Or.....clean out all the crap. How many pairs of socks can one person wear? Worry about her replacing the stuff when the time comes.

 

You have to start somewhere--stop waffling and making excuses for why things can't/don't get accomplished.

 

Or resign yourself to the fact that this is your life, nothing is going to change, and learn to live with it.

 

You are making it harder than it has to be, but I suspect that you want her to suddenly have an epiphany and make the changes herself, so that you won't have to be the b*astard forcing her hand.

 

What you don't get is the fact that for her, this is normal. You are the one who is unhappy about the situation. She is fine with it.

 

I firmly believe that you can't/don't want to take the steps necessary to make a change in your situation. You have written that you are afraid-- you are currently in counseling to learn how to deal with all of this, and still nothing changes for you.

 

What happened to your plan?

 

Re-read post 56 and 65 on this thread from JustBreathe. I really like what she says.

[Athena]

Since the Stuff is the problem but neither you nor your wife can bring yourselves to throw it out, and she is about to start counseling (for her OCD) then why not consider a temporary solution -- rent a storage unit, load up a rental truck and store all the crap in storage.

 

That way your wife still has her stuff, and since you say she earns good money, then she can pay for the monthly storage costs.

 

In the meantime you don't need to battle the stuff at home and the kids breathe easier too.

 

Would this work?

[Owl]

Plano, your options are really very limited here.

 

1. Complain about it, and do nothing.

2. Accept the situation as it is, and stop complaining or caring about it.

3. Do something to put an end to the situation.

 

 

 

I think you've been stuck at 1 for so long, you've blinded yourself to the other two options.

 

You can still draw a line in the sand. You can say "enough is enough"...and take active measures to change the situation. You can tell her point blank, straight up that you can't live that way anymore, and start boxing things up. AND...you need to make it crystal freaking clear that if she starts circumventing you and/or starts bringing more stuff in to rebuild the mess...you're outta here.

 

That assumes you feel that strongly about it.

 

Frankly...I think your KIDS feel that strongly about it, but I begin to suspect that you've grown so accustomed to the situation that you've got the same viewpoint about this as your wife does.

 

Your other option is equally as simple. Tell your kids that this is how YOU AND YOUR WIFE choose to live. Don't make it about her...because it's NOT. If you're accepting it...it's every bit as much YOUR DECISION...YOUR LIFESTYLE...as it is your wife's. Don't blame her for it...accept the responsibility for it (and the impacts on your family) fully on your own shoulders...don't blame your wife for something you refuse to change.

 

 

If you decide to change... How do you take away her finances and spending power? Simple...tell her that you no longer will live with her in the situation you're in...if she refuses to change any further, you'll take the kids and leave. If she refuses to give up the life of rubbish and hording, she's giving up her H and her family instead.

 

You make her choice painful enough to cause her to want to make the change.

 

I'm done. I've given you all the advice I can, my friend. At this point, you'll either choose to change the situation, or live with it.

[Awakening]

Plano's wife is mentally ill and can't let go of ANYTHING let alone the mess in the house.

 

I have a very close friend who's mother had the same disorder. He and his father would periodically clean out the house, filling a dumpster, and it would slowly fill up again. His mother was attending counseling but "forgot" to mention the hoarding issue. Even though my friend's father explained what was happening to the counselor, her refusal to admit the problem made her issues unresolvable.

 

They eventually divorced - he needed to remove himself and his younger child from the environment. She continued to hoard. The health department was called to her house at least twice because neighbors complained of the odor. I don't know what her situation is at this time.

 

Her ex-husband is happily remarried.

 

Plano I understand your frustration. And I think you also care about your wife's welfare. The thing is, if you attempt to control the situation by cancelling credit cards, cleaning, etc. it does not help YOU at all.

 

I think your only answer is to get your children out of there and seek a divorce. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your children - and their health.

[Dexter Morgan]

You guys realize, most of the stuff in our bedroom is stuff she bought. There is thousands of dollars worth of stuff. I can't just throw it away.

 

Why would you need to throw any of that away? And if you get a divorce, you can get your own stuff.

 

 

I asked her last night what she was going to talk to the therapist about and she pointed to the room full of stuff.

 

What stuff? What does the counselor or her problem have to do with a room full of stuff? Is your house filled with memoribilia of other men or something? I'm confused.

[Dexter Morgan]

She works and makes damn good money. She has credit cards, check book and cash. You tell me how to stop her buying power.

 

Divorce her and then her spending and unfaithfullness will no longer be your problem.

[Dexter Morgan]

OK, not trying to make an excuse for her behavior, just asking what you do with 4 tubs of picture frames, 3 tubs of Mary Kay, 1 tub of greeting cards, bags and bags of socks blankets and so on and so on. According to the therapist if I get rid of it all she will buy more.

She needs help to learn to quit shopping and hoarding plus all of her other issues. I am not trying to send the wrong message.

 

Ok, I understand what the problem with the "stuff" is now. I was thinking the counseling was for the problems about holding on to the OM.

 

I was thinking that being a packrat was small potatoes compared to her emotional betrayal of you.

[LavendarGirl]

Plano, my xH (of 8 years) has a serious hoarding issue. He is also an alcoholic (sober for 6 of those 8 years), and while he was able to work on the alcoholism issues with AA, the hoarding never got better. I could clean out stuff and then he'd pick through the garbage and hide his retrieved loot. I'd have to go to extremes like ripping up old pillows before I threw them out so there'd be nothing for him to salvage from the garbage. My teen kids would clean out their things, and he'd go through their garbage too. I tried to give him boundaries, like the garage is yours...the office is yours. But he'd spill over easily into the rest of the house. We separated and he moved out about 6 months ago, but the attic, office, and garage are still full of his things. I'm going to have to give him a cut off date that he either gets his stuff or I'm throwing it away. I never did find a way to co-exist with his hoarding, best of luck to you, it's a real challenge.

 

--LG

[JustBreathe]

Hey Dexter,

 

I saw a documentary and hoarding was one of the problems discussed. According to what I saw, hoarding is a real life addiction which people think is related to Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I never would of believed it had they not had actual people on there with the problem.

 

The people who have this problem sometimes have so much stuff they can't seem to part with that, literally, there are pathways through their house within which to walk. Junk on either side. It's sad. Plano's wife may not be that bad, but she still needs some serious therapy. Maybe her relationship with her cousin over all those years has something to do with her addictive personality? You have to treat hoarding like a drug addiction or alcohol addiction. You can't coddle them and shield them or they never get help.

 

Of course, like Lavender, some addicts are just too sick to fix. Take my husband .... please take him.. thank you.

[Planofool]

According to the therapist that I went to my wife's addiction is shopping. Her family has a history of alchoholism. She said my wife's drink of choice is shopping. She also saves everything. We have bags of clothes in every nook and cranny of the house. When I asked the therapist about her cousin she said he was just another bag of clothes to my wife. That's the only thing I didn't agree with.

Our basement, utility room master bedroom closet and our bedroom have nothing but paths through them. The rest of the house we keep as clean as we can. She does go through the garbage all the time looking for what we have thrown out. If we want to get rid of something we sneak it out and I take it to work.

 

I don't see the relationship between this problem and the EA last summer.

[Athena]

My sister is like this -- a hoarder. While my mother was living with her, she (mom) kept it all tidy and packed away, and rubbish out. But when my mom left, my sister's house got really bad -- could barely get the front door open, stuff everywhere, pathways throughout the house... kitchen had NO available counter space anywhere.

 

Then while my sister was away for a vacation, we (family members) went in without her knowledge and cleaned up.... like over two dozen BIG trash bags and lots of cleaning, tidying, etc... we sacrificed one room so that the others could be more habitable... of course when dear sis got back she was spitting mad... but at least she could live in it.

 

Needless to say a year later it was back to the same mess.

So, my mom tries to go in there once a year and do the same. I gave up.

 

Anyway, my sister went to help out family with their kids and lived in their house for a year and a half -- heh heh, guess what HER room in their house looks like?! LOL

 

The wife of the house is freaking out because she CANNOT STAND HOARDING -- her own mother is a really terrible hoarder... the wife has told me she used to clean out her mom's apartment from when she was 5 years old -- throw out magazines and stuff, but she learned to go to a different floor to throw out the stuff, or else her mother would retrieve it all and bring it back in.

 

So -- now the daughter hasn't been cleaning up the mom's apartment for five years, and apparently the place is now disgusting... like really unhygienic.... that mother is a shopaholic (as is my dear sister).

 

Without counseling I don't see how they would stop, but -- planofool, you didn't respond to my earlier suggestion of YOU putting your W's stuff into storage... then she can go play in her stuff as much as she likes, but the rules are not to bring any of it home.

I know that you could, with a lot of work and consistency, clean up your wifes messes and throw them in storage every month... yes that is work, but what are the other options?

 

Otherwise, seriously, consider letting her live on her own... that together with the infidelity should be a deal breaker for you. Just don't expect HER to clear her stuff up! lol... she is completely incapable... it would make her very anxious to do it herself... you have to dump it in storage.

[Planofool]

My son and I took 15 garbage bags of clothing out of the basement and into a storage unit we have on another piece of property. It took her 2-3 months to figure out it was gone. She got mad because she thought I gave it to the Goodwill and didn't talk to me for days. When she found out we just relocated it she was okay. Last night my son and I started going through all the old Christmas decorations. She got involved and it went from bad to worse. Before it was over she invited me to move out. We did get alot of stuff thrown out and cleaned up. She wants me to take my son with me when I move. I am still trying to figure out why we should be the ones to move.

Our latest argument started over her going to counseling again. She claims she has made a phone call and is waiting on them to return it.

Everything is bad timing in her mind. Last night was not a good time to go through the Christmas stuff, now is not a good time to see a therapist. I asked when is your good time? I been waiting for 27 yrs.

[Athena]

Wow -- she wants YOU to move out? Ha ha ha... well, just tell her since SHE is the problem, if SHE wants to move out she is welcome! She's just gonna trash the house if she stays, you know....

 

I think it is a big mistake to go through the Xmas ornaments while W is there! Oh my goodness, of course it is gonna lead to a fight! You have to do it behind her back... and throw the stuff out at the local dump, not the curb.

 

Plano, you really need a backbone. Your W has no right to talk to you like this, but you allow it so she does.

[LavendarGirl]

Plano,

Hey, you moving out with your son isn't a bad idea. Because if she were to move out, it will take 3 months of packing to get her stuff out of the house!!!