Update on the life of a Planofool

[Planofool]

Nice to hear from you Owl. Sorry for the TJ-ing.

 

D-day was June 19th 2007. Since then I have been in therapy with a new therapist for the last few months. I have also spoken to the OM whom broke the NC barrier with 2 text messages to my spouse. Both of which I intercepted on her cell phone. I called him and told him to stop trying to contact her. He asked if that was what she wanted. I also told him to get a life, that it wasn't right to be in love with your 2nd cousin. Yes I still check her phone, her e-mail accounts and am still searching the house for love letters from the past.

 

The therapist has labeled my wife as an alcoholic that doesn't drink. Her father, mother, brother and step father are or were alcoholics. My wife's drink of choice is shopping and hoarding. My visits to the therapist mostly deal with my kids and the effect my wife has on them and how to deal with her hoarding. There are many arguments between the wife and kids with the way she deals with the house and the mess she keeps it in. Both of my older kids are dating and are embarrased by the way their mom is and the way she trashes the house. Our bedroom has pathways through it. The therapist said I could clean it all up and get rid of it but she would fill it back up in a short matter of time.

 

Her take on the EA is that it was just something else my wife could collect and hold onto. I don't agree with the therapist 100% on this outlook. She doesn't put as much weight on the significance of the EA as I do. I am still hung up on the 27 yrs of deceit. My wife says these men were like spare tires, on;ly there if she needed them. She has also likened it to a security blanket.

 

I feel that my love for her is growing weaker and weaker. We are becoming more like roomates than soul mates. The things that have come to light about my wife are really starting to wear on me. Right now it is all about the kids.

[Owl]

I totally get what you're saying, man.

 

And I can agree and disagree with your therapist.

 

Your wife might have had these affairs to keep others on as 'backup plans'.

 

BUT...that in no way mitigates the damage that this has done to your marriage or to you personally. And this is where your therapist is NOT helping you.

 

What you're facing right now is the huge "killer" of a marriage after infidelity. Its not even exactly anger...its almost more apathy than anything else. You're so hurt by what she's done that you almost become numb to it...and by extension, numb to feeling anything positive about her or the marriage at this point.

 

There are two possible paths from here, as I see it.

 

At some point, you'll look at your marriage and say "Well, this sucked, but things are soooo much better NOW, and I'll change my focus to that.". And your marriage will start to improve even more, and you'll start to really recover, both the marriage and yourself personally.

 

OR, you'll look at your marriage and say Well, this sucks. Its lousy how things have been, and I don't see anything changing.". And at that point, you'll opt to move on. You'll file for divorce, you'll start to recover personally as you truly internalize that you're not the cause of this all, and you'll start to feel "whole" again. Your marriage will be gone, but you'll either replace it with a new relationship, or remain self-sufficient.

 

Either path works...the choice will end up being yours at some point, based off what you see going on in your marriage.

 

Don't be afraid to set boundaries NOW in your life and your marriage.

 

If you don't like living in a bedroom that has paths through it...make that a boundary.

 

Either she'll change and things will improve...or she won't, you'll move on, and things will improve.

 

But doing nothing will change nothing.

 

Make sense?

[Planofool]

Boundaries is something that has been discussed by the therapist, and I understand their meaning. The bedroom is area that my wife promised would be cleaned up by last Christmas. There were three things she promised me after the affair hit daylight. 1. no more talk about her x husband. 2. The bedroom would be clean by Christmas of 2007. 3. No more contact with OM. To the best of my knowledge # 3 has been adhered to but that is the only one of the three.

Once this year I had to ask her to stop having contact with another man that I thought was inappropriate, and she did. But for the most part nothing has changed.

She has asked me on a few occasions if I am seeing another woman. I found out our neighbor was having some issues with his wife "stepping out" on him and my wife asked if I was involved. So I don't know what to think of her.

 

I guess your use of the word "Apathy" really sums it up for me.

[Owl]

Boundaries need "teeth".

 

You need to get some "teeth" in here...in other words, she needs to suffer some form of consequence for not meeting her agreements.

 

Not enforcing your boundaries will make you seem weak. She doesn't have any reason to meet those boundaries if you're not willing to step and enforce them.

 

Step up...tell her point blank that she agreed to this as part of the recovery, and she's not met that requirement...and you expect her to do so...NOW.

[Planofool]

I understand boundaries need teeth.......but you also have to pick your battles. After 25 years of living with her messes why would I choose to battle over it now. It's the kids that have the most problem with it and they argue about it frequently.

 

The therapist has told me that the likelyhood of her changing is very small. So whats cleaned up today will be a mess later. So I don't get the urge to start the battle.........apathy again.

[DealingWDrama]

Wow Plan...I wanted to say as a response to your response from the other thread....I didn't realize that you were lied to in the beginning. I thought that your wife just all of a sudden threw some information in your face. I understand now why you would feel betrayed.

 

As far as the hording thing - have you considered walking through the house with a garbage back...in other words, tell her - you said you would have X area cleaned by whenever...you have not done so, SO if you do not have it done by X date then I will clean it. I do with with my children and their bedroom....if it isn't clean - I don't care what it is on the floor...it's in the trash.

[Owl]

So..from MY perspective, Plano, its NOT that she's hording that's the issue here...its that she hordes, and you don't care enough to do something to change the situation.

 

And in the end...the kids suffer for the choices you and your wife make.

 

THEY don't get any choice in the matter, since, as kids, they don't get to dictate terms on how they'll live.

 

There isn't much advice I can offer here...until SOMEONE forces a change, you're ALL stuck right where you want to be.

[Planofool]

As usual Owl you have opened my eyes to see the situation in a different light. But......I go back to what the therapist said, we can clean it up and she will fill back with stuff in a short matter of time. Our only hope is that she will like what she sees and keep it clean. The kids have gotten to the point that I will probably take them with me to the therapist. I have told them what the therapist has said but they still continue to confront their mother. Perhaps they do not see it as an illness but just being lazy.

[Kasan]

It's interesting that you give your wife's hoarding problem a label of an illness.

 

What steps is she doing to combat this illness?

 

Is she in therapy for this?

 

Interesting to me, that the rest of the family is in therapy for her illness.......

[Owl]

As usual Owl you have opened my eyes to see the situation in a different light. But......I go back to what the therapist said, we can clean it up and she will fill back with stuff in a short matter of time. Our only hope is that she will like what she sees and keep it clean. The kids have gotten to the point that I will probably take them with me to the therapist. I have told them what the therapist has said but they still continue to confront their mother. Perhaps they do not see it as an illness but just being lazy.

 

So she fills it up again...you continue to throw it out.

 

As she brings something in...sets it down...you pick it up, and throw it out.

 

Or...you start severly limiting her spending to prevent her from arbitrarily buying stuff.

 

Or...you enforce a new rule...if something comes in, two things go out.

 

Again...your therapist is acting like YOU are a powerless schmo here.

 

He/she is enabling your apathy. He/she is enabling your wife's illness, by encouraging you to do nothing about it.

 

Not all therapists are worth the paper their little certificate is printed on.

 

IF YOU WANT SOMETHING TO CHANGE...CHANGE SOMETHING.

 

IF YOU CHANGE NOTHING...NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

 

Quit acting like you're a whimp. Like you have absolutely no say in how you live.

 

Your wife isn't the only person in the marriage, or in the family.

 

But...YOU are letting her illness damage your family.

 

Your kids are totally RIGHT for not wanting to live that way. I applaud them for realizing that and trying to do something about it.

 

Here's a thought...what would happen if Child Services walked into your bedroom, right this second?

 

Would the results of that be any worse than actively fighting for a positive change to help prevent your wife's illness from impacting your family?

 

Its something to very, very seriously consider.

 

As their dad, its YOUR job to ensure that they live in an environment that they can thrive in. Its NOT your job to sit there apathetically with your hands under your butt and complain about how unfair it all is.

 

Sorry.../rant off. I'm done.

[Planofool]

She is doing the same thing she did for the EA she had last summer, nothing. About once a year she admits she has problems and she is going to do something about it and that is the end of it. I have realized that I can walk through the house and I just don't see it anymore. I am numb to the issue. But then the kids get mad at her about it and I start figure out how to resolve it. Not for her but for the kids.

 

See it involves all types of shopping from the grocery store to the department store. It even involves mail order junk. Then you throw in the fact that she goes through the garbage every week to make sure we haven't tried to sneak something out of the house. When you open any door in our house it is a given that something will fall out. I have to exclude the front and backdoor and the ones you can't close because overflow is piled in front of them. Open any kitchen cabinet and you will get hit with something falling out. I defy you to try and put anything in the refridgerator, no room. The older the kids get the more frustrated they become.

[Planofool]

Sorry we must have been typing at the same time. I hear you. It is my place to do something. It will be very unpleasant but you are right. I need to get my hands out from under my butt and put them to use.

To defend my therapist she did tell me most of what you have said. She told me to tell the kids to take their mom's junk and put it in their mom's space. She told me to do the same with our bedroom, define boundaries. This is my part of the room keep your crap out of it.

 

Here ia my fear.......I will drive a wedge between us or maybe even between her and the kids. I will drive her back to her phone friend who is so nice to her and loving and evrything that I won't be.

[Trialbyfire]

Here's a different perspective from someone who divorced her cheating spouse. I state this for a reason.

 

After D-day happens, we all go through this anger stage, of which part of it comes the warden behaviour. You don't trust them so you try to control them non-stop.

 

I'm guessing that while you're still checking everything, you've just stopped giving a crap because she's showing no signs of making amends to you or even giving a crap about the marriage. I wonder if she's pulling a passive-aggressive offset to your need to control.

 

If your kids are at the dating age, why are you still with her? What exactly are you trying to salvage or retain?

[Planofool]

I am so far from being controlling it is not even funny. You need to read some of my past threads.

 

We have one child who is 11. The other two are 16 and 21

[Kasan]

You do know that you are enabling her behavior.............

 

Your kids have the right to be able to have their friends over..........Why do your kids need therapy? They don't have the problem!!

 

You deserve to have a clean bedroom................

 

Just because this behavior has gone on for twenty+ years doesn't mean that things can't change.

 

Hire someone to clean out the house, get her in therapy, and set firm boundaries....

[Kasan]

Here ia my fear.......I will drive a wedge between us or maybe even between her and the kids. I will drive her back to her phone friend who is so nice to her and loving and evrything that I won't be.

 

I remember you well and wondered when you would get angry enough to do something about your situation.

 

There is nothing wrong with anger and yes, even confrontation!!

 

It's one thing for you to accept your situation, but quite another for your children to be forced into accepting your situation.

 

If you can't do anything for yourself, do it for your kids. They know what their mother is, and I really wonder how they view you............

 

Stop being a victim, because you are only a victim if you choose to be one.

[Planofool]

Here is a woman who can hide an ongoing relationship with her 2nd cousin for 27 yrs, still be in love with her x husband, have a phone affair for 3 months, Have issues out the wazoo and yet it is up to me to stop being a victim and fix everything. When does she start taking responsibility for any of this?

[Kasan]

Here is a woman who can hide an ongoing relationship with her 2nd cousin for 27 yrs, still be in love with her x husband, have a phone affair for 3 months, Have issues out the wazoo and yet it is up to me to stop being a victim and fix everything. When does she start taking responsibility for any of this?

 

When you put your foot down and say "enough is enough." It seems to me that you are doing all the work here, as are your kids.

 

And....I'm not saying that you're a bad dad or husband at all!

 

When is it her turn to go to counseling and deal with her issues?

 

She does what she does, because she can, and history has shown her that the consequences of her actions aren't enough to deter her from repeating the same behavior.

[Owl]

Kasan has it exactly right.

 

She starts accepting responsibility for her actions when she's FORCED to.

 

She'll start changing her behaviors and actions when she starts suffering consequences for them.

 

Why SHOULD she change what she's doing today? Right now, she has no REASON to change. Nothing bad is happening to her when she engages in bad behaviors. She's not suffering any consequences...or if she is, they're so small that they're not causing her to WANT to change.

 

Its like paper training a dog...you reward the good behavior, and you punish the bad...until the good behaviors become the 'norm'.

 

Why would you expect her to act any differently than she is??? She's had DECADES of successfully behaving in this fashion with no true consequences.

[Kasan]

I'm not picking on you Planofool--

 

You are in a tough spot, complicated by the fact that you have let this situation go for too long unresolved.

 

Where is your line in the sand? The final straw? You know, the deal breakers?

 

I have some clear lines in the sand for my life, and what behavior I will tolerate for myself and my family. No one crosses them without them hearing about from me. Appropriate action is meted out.

 

If you could establish your lines in the sand of what is tolerable and what is not, then your situation could be easily resolved.

[JustBreathe]

Kasan and Owl are so right, Plano. Her chaos is affecting your kids - they fight about her all the time and they can't even have their friends over.

 

She sounds obsessive compulsive.

 

I am married 25 years to a man with depression issues. I know what it's like. No wonder you're sick and tired.

 

Going to the therapist for yourself is good, but it doesn't do anything for your wife and she continues to wreak havoc in your home.

 

The only thing that got my angry emotionally abusive depressed husband to see the light was to kick him out. It shook him up. He came back literally begging and sobbing and ready to do the work. He kept his promises and is a much MUCH better father to his boys. He and I are through as he pushed me past my limit with his chaos, but I thank God that he has made those changes for my boys sake. They are so much happier and I can't say enough about how wonderful that is. It just makes my heart glad.

 

My eldest had the worst of it from his dad, and he always felt his dad didn't like him. Well... his dad has worked hard and they have progressed in their relationship to the point that they're both getting up early and cooking the Thanksgiving turkey - together. A couple weeks ago my H took my youngest deep sea fishing and they had loads of fun. Believe me when I tell you, Plano, this would NEVER have happened 2-3 years ago. My H was so caught up in himself and his crazy destructive circles he didn't have much time for our boys. He and I are done. But the benefit to my boys has been immeasurable.

 

Plano Plano Plano - She will not get it until you push her a$$ out in the cold and let her know what it feels like to lose the only stability she has ever had

 

Plano, kick her out and when she comes back crying, and she WILL, then you can decide whether you can trust her to begin working to clean up her act in EARNEST. You may find that you and the kids do better without her chaos. The kids may quit fighting because the irritant will be gone, and you will be calmer (I'm sure you could use a break). Maybe you won't even want her back. It was hard for me to let him back. I was doing just fine.

[Planofool]

Thanks for the advice. Slept on it and here is what I think.

 

I do need to draw the line in the sand no doubt. I don't think kicking her out of the house is the answer. We have an 11 year old daughter that would not understand this and would be devastated. My older kids might understand but I still don't think that is the answer.

 

I have enabled her and let this go on for 25 years. How can Ii expect her to change overnight?

[Kasan]

So what is your line in the sand?

 

What will be the consequences when she pushes and pushes and crosses your line?

 

You know she will...............

 

What are your plans?

[Owl]

So what is your line in the sand?

 

What will be the consequences when she pushes and pushes and crosses your line?

 

You know she will...............

 

What are your plans?

 

Exactly.

 

Kasan, I like the way you think.

[Planofool]

Well looking at my past track record.........nothing. I guess you have found another area I need to work on. I mean, what can I do?