40 and married 4 times...what is your first thought?

[Angel1111]

I don't think this has anything to do with a lack of committment. I think that's the wrong word. I think it's more a case of continual bad judgement and a lack of self-preservation. Considering that she probably stayed in all of those marriages despite the hard times, or the lack of affection, etc, then she showed incredible commitment.....until they pushed her to the point of no return. So, to her credit, it seems that she tends to stick it out and stay committed, despite severe obstacles. In her mind, because all the men in her past chose bad behavior, they were the ones who basically ended the marriage because of the choices they made. To her, they were the ones who had issues with commitment. She doesn't see where she fits into that equation. And in all fairness, that is a tough concept to grasp sometimes.

 

Her religious upbrining is actually her biggest downfall and until she recognizes that, she'll continue to have many struggles. She needs to recognize that letting other people manipulate her with guilt is only hurting her own life. She makes choices for them, but she has to live with those choices. It's probably hard for her to predict the outcome and, instead, relies on blind faith for things to work out, or she may think that people know better than her, or she's too eager to please others and will easily sacrifice her own happiness for them - and then she's surprised when it blows up in her face. She probably has a very optimistic nature, is pretty trusting, remains hopeful in the face of disaster, and she's probably very resilient. These are characteristics that serve her well in many areas, and hurt her in others. And she hasn't figured out when to rely on them, and when not to.

 

She's probably a good person but is clueless in some key areas of her life because she believes she's doing the right things. She knows she gave those marriages her best shot so doesn't understand where she went wrong. I doubt that she ever spent time to get to know herself - it's just been one string of relationships after another. There does come a point where a person has to put on the brakes and do some soul-searching but she seems to be designed to be in a relationship and it seems to be her strongest desire. Again, this is not a person who doesn't understand commitment.

 

As far as the ex she's fighting with, she most likely doesn't get what you're saying about baggage because, in her mind, she doesn't correlate her relationship with him in any way with you. And it's probably not a battle she started so, in her mind, it's not her baggage, but his. I'm certain there's a spillover but she doesn't see it because she is emotionally detached from him. But she's not detached from the emotions that the battle draws out of her, and that's the part she doesn't see.

 

The one thing that stands out to me, though, is that the two of you aren't on the same page because you judge her, and she is put in the position to have to defend herself, instead of counting on you to love her and to be there for her. If you can't be understanding of her past and of her choices, if you're not capable of loving her for everything she is and was, then you're right to think that this isn't the relationship for either of you.

 

But I will also point out that she is not the only source of the problem here - you are, too. And in much the same way that she failed to see it with her past relationships, you fail to see it now. But, of course, as long as you don't get married, then no one can accuse you of having commitment issues, can they? If you never take chances and sometimes fail, then no one can judge you, can they? You play it safe, she doesn't.

 

I would also take that a step further and say that you have just as many, if not more, issues with commitment than she does. Which is why you focus on this flaw of hers. At least she's willing to take chances. At least she understands that there are no guarantees in relationships but she still moves on in faith. You seem to be frightened to death that there are no guarantees - like in your grandparents' days. The truth is, there were a LOT of miserable people out there in our grandparents' days so I would be careful about idealizing that time period. Quite simply, there are no guarantees and we can't live our lives in fear just because we might stumble or make a mistake. If people want to judge you for your mistakes, I say let them. They don't have to live your life. You do.

[slimjim]

thanks for the reply Angel. i do think you are the angel on my shoulder, and you have great insight.

 

i do agree with almost all of your points, and i can see your point about this being bad judgement over a commitment issue. i know that she doesnt see things the way i probably do, and i dont know which view is the correct one.

 

i think perhaps i may be judging her--thats what this post is all about. we judge everything by first impressions and based on what we know about a persons past. past behavior is usually an indicator of future behavior, it shouldnt be so until you know a person. But we have thoughts, either when we see someone on a harley with tattooos, a bum on the street, etc. we shouldnt judge, but we judge everything.

 

what i have told you have been the thoughts in my head, and i havent communicated this with her until the last few days. this is how i found out about some marriage details. and when she seemingly put the pressure on me to think about marriage, and i told her that she needed to clean up her last one before she got into another, she thought that was a low blow. she is very sensitve about these failures, and i would think that she would realize she needs to slow way down this time. it has been 6 years since she divorced this guy, and she is still fighting.

 

now i get a mail from her yesterday which is typical for her. what i have failed to mention is that guy #2, who she married twice and is now fighting in court, the guy who insulted her at a mediation a month ago and she screams that he will never set foot in her house again----well this guy is there wherever and whenever the "kids" come over to eat, have something at their place, go to a theme park, etc. ITS FOR THE KIDS!!! these 26 and 30 year old kids--the 16 year old doesnt care for him.

 

so now i get the news that for thanksgiving, as usual she is having it at her house, the kids are there, and they have invited their dad. and she says, i guess we will just have to suck it up and just dont talk to each other as usual. now last year for xmas, he was there for that too, because these "kids" have to be there at 5am xmas morning to get presents, and he has to be there.

 

is this just me, or is this major baggage? why would i want this idiot around? shouldnt she get her own life and stand up for these selfish guilt tripping kids, and make them respect her space and life? i think this is a real issue with me. am i being wrong here? is this disrespectful to me? if we get married and buy "our house", i dont want this guy in it. period.

 

these people at certain times of the year seems to have a birthday party every weekend for about a month, and there he is. these kids drag him along like the wooden indian that stands in the corner. i have never spoken a word to him, its not confrontational, just annoying, and seems disrespectful to me. her kids just dont seem to care how this may make her feel. i know that the kids know they are in court, but dont care. its all about them.

 

he buys them expensive gifts, works on their homes on his time off--he doesnt date, has zero life outside the kids, and i think this is his passive control over them. and she is ridden with guilt, and wont put her foot down for fear of the kids rejecting her. and i sit there not being able to do anything about it. so is this wrong for me to feel lke this? i feel if i was to marry this woman, this idiot would probably have to give her away, because the "kids" would want it.

 

i think you are right about me too, and your insights are another type of judgement based on what you know about me. but its not about commitment issues with me--its trust. i see the burning wrecks of relationships on the side of the road, and the hurt it causes to yourself and others, especailly divorce. this woman for some reason is the only one who i have had these thoughts about, and to really get serious with. i agree that sometimes you just have to jump in, but you have to use your head and make sure that before you leap, the water is deep enuf.

 

i do know what commitment is, and i know that when i do commit to do something then thats it, and i will stay to my detriment. that has been the pattern of my life when i undertake things that I HAVE CONTROL OVER and its me i have to count on to get the job done! the difference here is that it takes 2 sides to a relationship, and i dont know how i can really know how to get a commitment from her to show me that she is serious this time. if i am the one who is trying to fix things, and she gives up, then there is zero chance.

 

maybe you are right that i need to jump off--i am not worried about getting judged by others if i fail--you are wrong there---i worry about failure becuase i know what this type of commitment is before God, and failure is not an option. I worry that she is supposed to be a chrsitian and knows this also, but has never done it after making these comitments 4 times. this cheapens the entire concept in my mind.

 

just because you havent joined the game doesnt mean that you cant play it very well when you do get in. just like there is no honor in playing the same game and continuing to fail. that can show commitment, but it can also show a very slow learning curve and something i dont think i want to deal with.

 

i thought time would be a good indicator for me, but women have shorter time tables than guys. is that what all of this stuff about anyway? its not soul mates and all the other verbosity, its just chance and timing? i just dont think a couple of years of being together is too much.

 

so you seem to be telling me that i am thinking, and judging, that she is 0 for 4, cant seem to make good judgements, keeps hitting herself in the head with the realtionship hammer and wonders why it hurts. but maybe i am the right guy, and maybe she sees it and wants to move. or maybe i am #5, and mickey rooney is next.

 

and maybe i should be thinking,, if she was a baseball player, 0 for 4, then she is due for a hit, and maybe i am the one. i know everyone i meet now at our ages will probably be divorced, etc, but i doubt they will be having holiday dinners with their EXs at the table every year.

i think she needs to burn this baggage and control her own life before she can ever move on. so i think i will back off and let her have dinner with her sexless 2nd and 4th husband that she is now suing, and maybe he will be #5--again!!

 

 

angel, thank you so much for the insight, and i welcome your and others thoughts. its always gret to have diffferent perspectives on these things.

 

thanks again.

[RecordProducer]

these 26 and 30 year old kids

I thought you said she's 40.

[slimjim]

she is 47. i used 40 just to get the thread going. her oldest kid just had a kid who is 8 months--i think she is knocking 30, within a few years. the middle one is mid 20's. the only one i am sure of is the 16 year old, becaue i threw her party.

 

i think my lady was 19 when she got married and got pregnant. thats old in oklahoma from what i understand--those bible thumpers out there think you should be a granny by 35.

 

i am 45. sorry the ages didnt line up for you. but it still holds up--she was married 4 times at 40--her last divorce must have been when she was 40 or 41, because its been 6 or so years since that divorce.

i think she has dated 3 other guys between then--they seem to last about a year or so, like me!!!

 

thanks