Isolde Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 I'm doing a masters degree in a professional area and am preparing for a fairly challenging (though not inflexible) career. I like the prospect of having a career but it's soured by everyone telling me guys are intimidated by professionalism. I mean, it's not that girls want to be tough feminists, but we've been put in this position of having to provide entirely for ourselves. Even if we have a serious bf, we can't just expect to marry him. I'd be happy to work less and have plenty of time to cook for a guy and pursue other hobbies, but that's not reality these days. So why is this professionalism intimidating to men when it's really the only choice women have if we want to live comfortably during our single years?
kashmir Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 I'm not intimidated by it. I just don't like when it gets to a girl's head. I'm doing a double major in genetics and cell bio/neurology, so I'm in lot of classes with pre-med people. They're so full of themselves, and they constantly talk about how they're going to be rich doctors. I find that girls do this especially, especially in the presence of guys. It's weird, because these girls are always done up and have fancy expensive clothing on. It's like they're trying REALLY HARD to assert their independence and show guys that they're just as smart, but at the same time they're following tons of feminine trends and stereotypes that just groups them with the typical valley girls. If I met a girl who was doing something challenging (and not for the money), and she didn't tell me about it until I asked, I wouldn't be intimidated at all. I'd actually be quite turned on.
Author Isolde Posted November 18, 2008 Author Posted November 18, 2008 Right. I just feel like somehow, if we have independence, we're ******, but if we're not, we're needy and waiting for a man. I really feel for my generation of girls. It doesn't help that good guys seem to be harder and harder to find (at least for me
alphamale Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 So why is this professionalism intimidating to men when it's really the only choice women have if we want to live comfortably during our single years? don't really know...women have made great strides and society has changed. some women are makeing $150K/year and adopting kids from Korea. men are basically redundant so why would modern women need them around? this is what some modern women wanted and now they have it....one must eventually lie in the bed they make. as a side bar, in my experience the women who have the hardest time finding and keeping a man are both financially successful and physically attractive basically, some men feel that if a woman doesn't need taking care of then there really is no need to have us around.
Author Isolde Posted November 18, 2008 Author Posted November 18, 2008 don't really know...women have made great strides and society has changed. some women are makeing $150K/year and adopting kids from Korea. men are basically redundant so why would modern women need them around? this is what some modern women wanted and now they have it....one must eventually lie in the bed they make. as a side bar, in my experience the women who have the hardest time finding and keeping a man are both financially successful and physically attractive basically, some men feel that if a woman doesn't need taking care of then there really is no need to have us around. But that's NOT true. I could be a billionaire and still feel I needed a man and still feel capable of being vulnerable to him in certain ways.
kashmir Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Alphamale has a point. Guys naturally want to protect and provide for their woman. If a woman is very successful on her own, both she and men get the sense that she doesn't need men. I certainly would believe that. A self-made woman usually seems to be too interested in her own ventures to care for a relationship or sex life. A man, on the other hand, will always feel a desire to have a woman, no matter how successful he is. While a lot of women don't need men to provide for them anymore anyway, I think the concept carries over to other aspects. Being a guy, I just naturally have this urge to have a woman to hold in my arms and protect. I want to be a source of comfort and security to her. With modern women, though, it seems like they don't need or desire a man to serve that purpose.
alphamale Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 I could be a billionaire and still feel I needed a man and still feel capable of being vulnerable to him in certain ways. the men would just be after your money then, innit?
Author Isolde Posted November 18, 2008 Author Posted November 18, 2008 I mean, I'm never going to be an exec or anything, I don't have THAT much drive. I guess I'm just upset that you guys think that being successful and wanting to be protected are mutually exclusive. Its not true. Are you saying that women who want to do something they find enjoyable and/or meaningful should purposefully step down from those goals? As I said earlier, we can't make those choices based on boyfriends we dont even have at the moment.
carhill Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Success and professionalism are attractive. Arrogance is not. There are many really healthy ways of "taking care" of a woman that don't involve money Wealthy, smart, successful women are very sexy IMO. If they can balance the vehicle for that with their responsibility to and interest in their primary relationship, then I can imagine they would be overwhelmingly attractive to nearly any healthy man. OP, supporting yourself "entirely" is something men have been doing for generations. Is there something about this process that you feel is injurious to your ability to form primary relationships? What? You make choices regarding managing your career in a way that's healthy for you. What do you want to do?
alphamale Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 I guess I'm just upset that you guys think that being successful and wanting to be protected are mutually exclusive. the skills and personality it takes to be "successful" are not the same skills it takes to be "vulnerable and feel protected". one cannot just turn off their personality and become someone else when they get home at 5:30pm from their corner office... Are you saying that women who want to do something they find enjoyable and/or meaningful should purposefully step down from those goals? no, but they need to figure out what is most important to them in life and realize that there will be sacrifices along the way...
Author Isolde Posted November 18, 2008 Author Posted November 18, 2008 Success and professionalism are attractive. Arrogance is not. There are many really healthy ways of "taking care" of a woman that don't involve money Wealthy, smart, successful women are very sexy IMO. If they can balance the vehicle for that with their responsibility to and interest in their primary relationship, then I can imagine they would be overwhelmingly attractive to nearly any healthy man. OP, supporting yourself "entirely" is something men have been doing for generations. Is there something about this process that you feel is injurious to your ability to form primary relationships? What? You make choices regarding managing your career in a way that's healthy for you. What do you want to do? Thank you for this post, especially the second paragraph. The most attractive sort of vulnerability is emotional, not financial.
Author Isolde Posted November 18, 2008 Author Posted November 18, 2008 the skills and personality it takes to be "successful" are not the same skills it takes to be "vulnerable and feel protected". one cannot just turn off their personality and become someone else when they get home at 5:30pm from their corner office... no, but they need to figure out what is most important to them in life and realize that there will be sacrifices along the way... So you're actually saying a woman can't work at anything but a desk job and get married?
carhill Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Some men see success and empathy/caring/emotional openness as mutually exclusive. This is because they see it from their perspective; it *is* their truth. Indeed, male competition is brutal. What many men don't realize is that women compete and succeed in a completely unique and different way. I know enough successful women to understand this dynamic. It doesn't erode their femininity in the least. If anything, their success gives them more freedom and choices. It does because they control their destiny on their own terms. They choose.
Trialbyfire Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Isolde, it bothers me that you think you don't have a choice. If you don't want a career, you don't have to have one. You can find more than enough men who want stay at home wives or stay at home mothers. If you want a career, that's okay too. The guys who are going to be intimidated by a professional woman, aren't the guys who will be compatible mates for someone like that. This doesn't mean that there aren't more than enough men who can handle it or who find it attractive. Confidence is attractive in either gender. I have an MSc in Finance and Econ. It's never slowed down my dating life or made it difficult to find a relationship-style man. If anyone has slowed it down, it's been me.
konfuzd Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 The last 2 guys I've dated (including my current bf) admitted that they were completely intimidated by my career as an architect. The first guy lived in a basement suite and drove a POS car that we affectionately referred to as the death trap. He ended up stopping things short of a relationship because he said my success and "nice things" took a bite out of his self esteem, and he felt belittled by me. I never flaunted any of my stuff, and never saw him as a lesser person, but he couldn't deal with it, so it was his loss. My current bf always makes comments about how he's uncomfortable with me making more money than him, because he wants to be the provider and such. I always tell him he can use his money to keep me alive, and I'll just use my money for useless things like a trained monkey... he's learned to deal with it, and is slowly beginning to value a dual income and the ways it works to his advantage. We rotate who pays for dates etc... and were able to travel overseas together both paying our own way which was amazing. I think there are certain guys who just won't stand for you being more successful than them, there are some who will learn to accept it, and there are those who will relish in it. It's all part and parcel of finding the right match who accepts you for who you are, and what you've done with your life. Anyone who's not okay with where you are in life, is not the right one for you.
carhill Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 What can the partners achieve as a team? What assets do the each bring to the table and how are those assets evaluated and valued? As part of my "bigger d*ck, fatter wallet" theory, money is an exceedingly simple asset to value. Other assets, not so simple. The ability to see the value in the assets of another is an essential part of compatibility, IMO.
CommitmentPhobe Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Because your average male ****** around in school, works a crummy job he hates for money and has no other discernable interest in life other than to watch other people playing sport or to kick about with the opposite sex for a good time. What does he have in common with an intelligent career oriented woman? Not very much. You can't be everything to everyone in this life and personally I blame the internet and the meeja for selling the false hope that you can. Take a quick look around, most people are pretty **** Personally I'm not intimidated, in fact it goes with my territory as it does with the other top percentage of males.
prettybaby Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 I don't believe in that. Guys are only intimidated by cold hearted women who think too highly of themselves. Being professionally successful + friendly & approachable aren't incompatible.
SarahRose Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 For the gals, just do what you want to do. Don't worry about a guy being intimidated about your career enough to make you not do the career. That is silly. There will be a guy that will be just fine with your career. And yeah you can turn it off at 5pm. I do.
flc Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 The problem I see that women who want to be professionals and move up in organizations feel that have to act like a man or worse out man the men. Most women I know hate to have a women boss and many men feel the same way. Not because they are women but because of the attitude they take on. I think if you can keep your identity and characteristics of a women that men like, you can be a professional and be someone men want to be with.
Miranda1 Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 I should think that men would want their partners to have a job, simply for the fact they don't have to support them financially! I think if both the man and woman are equally successful at their careers, then that's the ideal. I love 'power couples!' Like Barack and Michelle Obama, Chris Brown and Rihanna, Jay Z and Beyonce...
Woggle Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 I love successful and intelligent women and in fact am married to one but what many men can't stand is the attitude of some career women. So,e have this mentality that since they make their own money men are useless and disposable and serve no purpose in their life and it is just a turn off. They think that having a constant attitude and treating men like trash somehow makes them empowered and liberated and no man wants a woman like that. It has nothing whatsoever to do with success and intelligence. There are some men who are intimadated by that and they are losers usually end up with a housewife that treats them like a walking wallet. You don't men like this but most men just don't want a woman that is constant drama and sadly some bad apples have managed to taint all successful women with this label.
cutegirl Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 I am merely there to hold her hand in public, give her regular sex and say all the nice things she wants me to say to her and that is it. This is exactly what I would want from a man... Nothing more... I would never want a guy to be my "provider" or "caretaker", just those words by themselves are already pretty patronizing.
fral945 Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 Yes, I would be one of those men. It bothers me because the type of women who has a masters tend to often be "careerists", as another poster pointed out to me once. IME, these women generally are less likely to want children and more likely to have higher expectations and needs in life, and more often than not see a man as disposable. That is a turn-off to me. I usually ask these type of women one question: If you had to have a good career or a good family life, which would you choose? I rarely get a response choosing family over career. Generally the response is "Why can't I have both?"
GoodOnPaper Posted November 18, 2008 Posted November 18, 2008 I don't believe in that. Guys are only intimidated by cold hearted women who think too highly of themselves. Being professionally successful + friendly & approachable aren't incompatible. I think this hits the nail on the head. When I was in my PhD program, the women in the program seemed to fall into two categories when it came to dating. Some were looking for men who were professionally established and higher up on the socioeconomic food chain (doctor, laywer, etc.) while the rest were looking for "hot" guys whose lives didn't necessarily have anything to do with professionalism. Not being able to compete on those playing fields, I looked elsewhere, and in general, I think any man will do the same if he feels what he has to offer (financially, emotionally, physically) will not be well-received.
Recommended Posts