Communication Breakdown

[murphomatic]

Hey everyone - I need some objective advice.

 

For some background, I've been dating a girl for about 4 months now. She's 28 and I'm 33. We seem to have dicey communication problems. Mostly in the way that I'll say something, and she'll interpret it as meaning something different - usually in some way that detrimental to her or our relationship as a whole. The things I say are never meant to be hurtful or apathetic, but therein lies the problem.

 

A recent example of a conversation:

 

She's moving into a new apartment, and I helped her move a bunch of stuff lastnight. As we left her folks' house with the truck loaded, she told them that she'd be back later that night. So we get everything unloaded, and by the time we're heading back to the other side of town, it's late. I ask her what she'd like to do ... go home, or come stay the night at my house. She asks if she can come over to my house, to which I respond: "Sure". Her reaction to this is "ya know, it'd be nice if you gave a ***** enough to actually INVITE me over." Now - from my perspective, I just DID invite her over. From her perspective, my response of "sure" was equivalent to "ok yeah, whatever you want to do, I don't care." I guess the response she wanted from me was something more along the lines of "oh baby, yes - I NEED you to be at my house because I just can't bear the thought of going the whole night long without you."

 

This whole "you need to specifically invite me over" thing has reared its head several times. When we talk about the issue, my position is usually along the lines of "we've been dating long enough now that I shouldn't have to specifically invite you over. I've opened my life (which includes my house) to you, and if you want to come over - just come over." I'm not going to beg her to come stay at my place - I'm just not that type of a guy. On top of it, the whole notion of asking if she can come over kinda irritates me because it implies that I have a choice in the matter, when we both know that if she asked and I said "no" - she'd be hurt, and I'd be the ass that hurt her.

 

On the flip-side, there seems to be a bit of a double-standard here. For example, we'll talk on the phone, and she'll end the conversation with the statement of "I'll call you tomorrow evening when I get off work." Tomorrow evening comes and goes, and she never calls. I'm a little disappointed that I didn't hear from her, but at the same time I know that she's got a lot of things going on in her life (family drama, new apartment, job, etc.) that might contribute to her just getting wrapped up in other details and not having the time to call me. I may feel a bit disappointed, but I try not to read too much into it, and just know that she loves me and if she didn't get the chance to call me - so be it.

 

The other night we were discussing things we may have done to hurt or disappoint the other person - no matter how trivial. She wanted to know when she last disappointed me, so I mentioned the whole aspect of saying that she'll call, then never does. She replied that was just how she wraps up phone conversations, and that I should just understand that...which I'm fine with - no biggie - I never read too much into it anyway.

 

There are some other "neediness" issues that I have problems with..things like I have to stand in the bathroom with her at night while she gets ready for bed because she "gets scared"...and when she closes her eyes to soap up her face, she wants me to put my hand on her so that she knows I'm "still there." If I press her to tell me what she's scared about, she either won't tell me, or it'll be something inane like she once saw a funny reflection in a mirror - either way, she demands that I do these things for her because she's "not asking a lot of me." I think it's silly for her to have some baseless fear and be unable to function independently without my presence. When I tell her I won't do it because she's being silly and there's nothing to be afraid of, she tells me I'm a jerk.

 

So here's my question. Am I an insensitive ass, or does she want me to step into playing some sort of role that I'm just not ok with playing? This type of differing definition in words and needs crops up in many facets in our relationship, and now I'm finding myself walking on eggshells to make sure I don't say or do the wrong thing, and inadvertantly hurt her feelings. All I want to do is be myself in the relationship, and not have to constantly worry about censoring my responses to her, or play-acting to her expectations. I'm not fond of the idea of being in a relationship where I cannot be myself. It makes me question whether or not I'm even fit to be in a relationship with anyone, and if I should just accept the thought of being single for the rest of my life.

 

Anyway - sorry for writing a whole book on the topic. Any words of wisdom out there? I certainly appreciate it -

[Chinook]

She's playing games with you. Sorry that whole bathroom thing, that really made me laugh, you're seriously buying that...?

[Chinook]

She's playing games with you. Sorry that whole bathroom thing, that really made me laugh, you're seriously buying that...?

Hmmm what I mean when I say she's playing games with you is she's getting you to capitulate to her needs. Constantly. Other times she's not giving you a second thought (like not calling back) because she's testing whether you're going to run after her or freak out about not calling. This is a seriously messed up situ you're getting into with her. Can you see yourself with her long term and possibly married and putting up with this crap..?

[Touche]

Unless you enjoy drama, run the other way. You sound like a great b/f to me. She's immature and a drama queen. She sure doesn't sound like a 28 year old. She sounds much, much younger.

 

She's clearly not the one for you. Anytime we feel we have to walk on eggshells and watch every word we say lest we piss off our mate, it's not a good match.

 

That whole thing about touching her while she soaps up her face is totally abnormal.

 

Also, I saw nothing wrong with your "invitation" to stay at your house. What does she want a gold-engraved invitation?

 

Run from this prima donna. You'll never be able to make her happy and she'll make you miserable and turn you into a wimp if you let her.

 

I say, cut your losses and find someone more normal and suitable.

[murphomatic]

Definitely not buying the whole bathroom thing. When I told her I wouldn't do it because I thought she was being ridiculous, it turned into a yelling-fight that lasted until 2am..which was horribly convenient because I had to be up at 5am for work.

 

Anyway, I've suspected the whole game-playing thing. I have even told her straight-up that "I won't play this game with you" in various situations. She always insists that she's not playing any kind of game, and my response is that she's playing one without even realizing it.

 

She's related to me several times that she feels neglected in our relationship - that's she's more emotionally invested in me than I am in her. She generally wants to move things faster than I'm comfortable with. For example: she wanted to move in with me after we'd been dating for a month. At the time I considered it because she was having serious problems in her home-life, and I hated to see her in a destructive environment. In the end and after much thought, I told her I thought it was a bad idea, and that she should find a place of her own for a bit while our relationship is so young). This was big let-down for her, and ever since then, I've felt that things have steadily gone downhill.

[murphomatic]

Thanks Touche - for the advice and the compliment. I've been thinking about calling and end to things with her, and I hate to break her heart because she believes herself to be totally smitten with me. I thought that I'd better get some 3rd-party advice just to make sure I wasn't missing something. I tried to describe the situations I typed above in the most unbiased, objective way I can.

 

Unless you enjoy drama, run the other way. You sound like a great b/f to me. She's immature and a drama queen. She sure doesn't sound like a 28 year old. She sounds much, much younger.

 

She's clearly not the one for you. Anytime we feel we have to walk on eggshells and watch every word we say lest we piss off our mate, it's not a good match.

 

That whole thing about touching her while she soaps up her face is totally abnormal.

 

Also, I saw nothing wrong with your "invitation" to stay at your house. What does she want a gold-engraved invitation?

 

Run from this prima donna. You'll never be able to make her happy and she'll make you miserable and turn you into a wimp if you let her.

 

I say, cut your losses and find someone more normal and suitable.

[Touche]

You're welcome, murpho. And if you really have described those situations accurately (and I have no reason to believe that you haven't) then you know this girl is not right for you.

 

Who wants a drama queen?

 

It's sad that you will break your heart but why should you stick around for more nonsense in order to not hurt her? You can let her down gently. You don't have to be mean about it of course. I wouldn't expect that you'd be mean anyway.

 

Just tell her that you don't feel that you could ever make her happy. That you're sure she'd be happier with someone else.

 

The only problem with that is this: Don't be surprised if she "stalks" you. I'm serious. She's the type to keep calling you and to beg you to come back. She'll say she's changed and then she'll go right back to her old ways.

 

Good luck!

[Charles1978]

The only thing you can do here before breaking up with her would be to let her know that her actions have driven you to this point... breaking up. She obviously doesn't realize that these things are as big a problem with you as they are. You need to make that clear first. Then, either she will change her ways, or the relationship will end. Seems to me that this would be a better way to handle it. But I agree with you... this would drive me nuts. Something needs to change. Good luck.

[Chinook]

What Charles says is accurate but I suspect that your girl will deny this and she won't actually buy any of her responsibility in this whole thing. Consequently she's going to go through life purposely pushing people's buttons and not getting what she wants. She needs to have a serious think about her approach to life. This would drive me bananas.

[kashmir]

She either is a total manipulative drama queen or has serious psychological problems and irrational fears, or both things. My money is going on the former though. You're a decent and rational guy. You shouldn't have to deal with this.

[murphomatic]

What Charles says is accurate but I suspect that your girl will deny this and she won't actually buy any of her responsibility in this whole thing. Consequently she's going to go through life purposely pushing people's buttons and not getting what she wants. She needs to have a serious think about her approach to life. This would drive me bananas.

You're spot on. She'll deny her neediness and the game-playing she does .. I've broached this topic with her before, and she always twists it around into a way that paints me as emotionally detached.

 

I suspect that this is something she's learned over time from her parents, who are exceedingly good at making the world's worst judgement calls (ie - never enough money to pay the bills, but ALWAYS enough money to hit the bar, drink, buy cigarettes and play video poker...and God - her mom is just batty .. does STUPID crap, like steals the utensils at restaurants). They're currently "hiding" their car at someone else's place so the repo-man doesn't get it. Her folks are fun people to be around - they're nice and always up to do anything, but wow do they makes some awful decisions. They all moved to town here from out-of-state, so my girlfriend went from having a place of her own to living with her folks again short-term while they all found work and got established in a new state. Unfortunately for my girlfriend, she was the only one who managed to go out and find a job, and it's been 6 months now... so everyone's broke except my girlfriend, and they all lean on her to pay all the bills instead of everyone paying their share as was the original agreement. But again - like I stated, they always seem to have money for smokes, beer, and video poker.

 

I've been hoping that maybe things will be different once she's moved into her new place, and out of the household of people leeching every last penny off her...and she rarely ever puts her foot down, so she just gives them money and continues enabling their bad behavior. She's tried to say no a couple of times, but the others always guilt her about how she's being "selfish" and how they'll "remember this" - inferring that they won't be bothered to help her out should she fall on hard times in the future...really a pretty disfunctional bunch of people. I guess when they all fight (I've never personally witnessed this), it gets heated enough that the neighbors call the cops.

 

I'm starting to realize that a lot of her behavior is ingrained into her personality, and probably isn't due to her current circumstances (no matter how much I wished that were the case...circumstances are easy to change... someone's personality is an entirely different [if not impossible] situation).

 

Anyway - thanks everyone for your input. I believe my feelings about the situation are validated.

[Chinook]

You're spot on. She'll deny her neediness and the game-playing she does .. I've broached this topic with her before, and she always twists it around into a way that paints me as emotionally detached

Seems to me you did the normal I-came-here-to-check-I'm-not-going-crazy-or-over-reacting-on-this. You're not over-reacting. This is a bad situation and your girl's need for you to capitulate to her desires and needs is not going to change overnight. It could probably be overcome with counselling and therapy but if she can't even see what she's doing, you have to ask yourself what are you doing to yourself in the long run. If it was me, sorry but I would run, not walk.

[murphomatic]

Definitely here as a sanity check. I appreciate this community and the insight of the people.

 

I'm off to find some running shoes. Especially now that she's all moved in to her new apartment. Perhaps this is a perfect time for endings and new beginnings.

[SoulSearch_CO]

I was just thinking simple insecurity with the whole thing about wanting some kind of formal invitation. But...uh...I'm starting to think mental instability with the whole bathroom thing. The fact that she has to have you touch her while her eyes are closed to be sure you haven't disappeared indicates that she feels out of touch with reality sometimes. Weird. I wouldn't stick around for this - high maintenance and you're never going to be able to do enough to prove to her that you love her. I had that kind of a relationship in my ex-marriage - never, never, never again.

[murphomatic]

Well I'm officially single again. C'est la vie ... Broke it off with her tonight. She couldn't believe that I wasn't going to put any effort foward to change how I am ... that her asking me to be more affectionate towards her wasn't that much to ask - but I know the issues ran much deeper than that. I kinda feel like an ass - she cried and told me she would've loved me forever, but I just couldn't see us happy together in the long-term. I like to think I did us both a favor by ending things, but like I said - right now, I just feel like an ass.

 

Anyway - thanks again to everyone who provided their feedback on this thread.

[Touche]

Sorry, it turned out that way for you Murpho. For what it's worth I think you did the right thing, and I'd guess many other people would agree with that.

 

I know this sounds trite but do try to see this as a new beginning for you and not the end. I know for myself, I never listened to anyone who told me that, but it's really true.

 

One day, you'll wonder why you even put up with as much as you did. I've been in your similar shoes so I know.

 

Anyway, keep busy with the things you like to do and the friends you like to do them with and come and post on here. I think you'll be surprised at how therapeutic it is to continue to post on here. You might even make some friends.

 

All the best to you, Murph.

[murphomatic]

Thanks for the encouragement and kind words Touche. It sucked, but I think it was the right decision too. She was just far too immature to deal with long-term.

 

Definitely staying busy, and plan on hanging around here for a bit ... interesting reading to say the least, and maybe I can let someone draw on some of my experiences for their betterment.

 

Thanks again - all the best to you as well.