Always fighting?

[orangesean]

Hello, me and my girlfriend are fighting every day about miniscule things and it's killing us. I feel like a lot of it is a problem on her account that she refuses to admit to. That is to say, she's almost constantly defensive, sometimes changing things she said before to mean or say something else so it supports her.

 

When we fight I feel like we are in a nightmare where she turns off all listening and negotiating until I apologize for whatever it is I did.

 

Let me give you a bit of background here, we dated 4 years and I was abusive (physically sometimes) and angry a lot of it. I was trying to fix it near the last 4-5 months but I couldn't control myself yelling at her, putting her down, cursing, saying things I didn't mean. So she dumped me, I apologized about a week later, without expecting her to take me back, just because I know I was awful and I still know to this day. I put myself into therapy two weeks later, also confessing to a few people including my mom that I did hit my ex a few times and that I'm a lot to blame. I'm not proud of any of this, I still feel sick today about my actions a lot. I felt sick then as well, but I didn't really know how to stop getting to that point of no return when you get angry and start doing the "anything goes" routine that causes permanent damage.

 

So I go to therapy, a cognitive therapist, learn a lot about how simply abstaining from anger will help, how it's useless to call people names or to control what you say, so you don't blurt out things you don't mean. Also to try to not let me get irrational and draw conclusions on what people say and stretch them out to mean something else like people are out to get you. They call this thought restructuring. It's a part of creating angry by thinking everyone is out to get you and you have to constantly defend yourself.

 

Well anyways eventually my girlfriend finds out from a friend I'm trying to do better 3-4 months later, and we get back together, knowing things have to change. Besides a couple of other things I think are sorted out, things were going okay the last 5 months I 've been with her again. But the last month or so we have been fighting and arguing about everything.

 

Let me stop here and inform you that I have not done anything physical, have been very careful about calling her any names or saying anything I don't mean. I have not laid any uncaring hands upon her, I try to be there when she cries after I or someone else hurt her feelings and make her feel better, get her tissues... etc. I think I've been putting a lot of things to good use from therapy, and a few times I have asked my therapist how to handle myself in certain fights or not come off as criticizing or overbearing, which I know I do sometimes.

 

Basically, I just feel like our relationship is eroding, and time and time again I don't feel like she is doing anything to change. She has had a temper as well and after I got physical the last time we were together she got physical a little too. She still seems to yell a lot. I don't know what to do when she's yelling, I feel sad, I refuse to do anything back, sometimes I start yelling back when she's mad, but I try to refrain myself. After an argument or fight she usually ends up crying, when I try to comfort her and talk about it. Sometimes it feels like nothing is resolved or sometimes it feels like we both say we will try harder, and maybe we both aren't doing our part, but I feel like if should would just drop the defensiveness, a lot of problems could be avoided. I'll try to explain.

 

I feel like she refuses to catch herself in her anger because of defensiveness and she turns off all dissenting opinion or listening at that point or calming down. None of our fights are over anything meaningful really, nothing that is truly incompatable, and sometimes just misunderstandings that blow up.

 

A lot of the time when I'm trying to give my opinion of something that may be related to her, it seems to end up she's saying she feels I called her stupid, useless, incompatent, etc. etc. I can't remember every word, but I never even say those things to her. I'm not even supposed to call people stupid by my therapists command because that minimizes a conflict into superiority. But she puts these words in my mouth and I tell her time and time again I never said any of those things, but she argues they were implied. I used to say, "well why would I say that stuff about someone I love?" and try to compliment her afterwards, that she is none of those things. But the past few weeks I just keep saying "stop putting words in my mouth."

 

She says when we are calm she feels like I'm saying these things because of our past and she always has to be on guard, and I tell her it's not like that anymore, and that I'm trying really hard. She always kind of gives noncommital answers that she will stop, but it feels like every fight since those earlier ones before she yells in anger "because you made me act this way" and I don't know what to do. It's like she blameshifts for putting words in my mouth and blameshifts that I just want her to stop, no matter how bad I acted in the past. I just feel like her saying I think she's stupid, useless, dumb etc. doesn't help a fight, and that she should feel like I would never say that stuff about her.

 

And for the record I think she's a really smart girl, sometimes I envy all the stuff she knows, but I can't really pinpoint what's going on here. Is it a combination of insecurity and defensiveness? I'm sorry a thousand times over that I contributed to this, but how do I get her to stop?

 

I try to tell her techniques I learned in cognitive therapy or sometimes catch her during fights and she usually says "well you aren't doing it either!" and blameshifts more. I'm really just trying to help, I don't want us to crash and burn. She gets mad if I say she's using irrational thoughts when she thinks I'm implying all these horrible things about her and saying I'm not caring about her feelings. It's like she has to insist I think she's so terrible or I "hate her." Once she started arguing with me that the only reason I go to my therapist is to have someone to agree with me. And that I only lecture her on what to do and I act like I know everything.

 

I don't know what to do anymore, I feel like we are great together anytime we aren't fighting. I feel like if we could both find the keys to extinguishing fights before we spend hours arguing back and forth about the same things would be great. I probably and coming off so high and mighty in her eyes, but I don't want to be that. Like I really do want her to listen about the techniques I've learned to not put fuel on the fire during fights but I can't seem to get her to care or for her to make a commited effort to stopping damaging behavior.

 

I feel so alone, I tried to fix myself so much, I didn't know she was coming back, but I felt if we were back again, our relationship could be as good as it was the first year or two before we let fights get in our way and constantly snowball until we dislike eachother or don't want to be in the same room.

 

I know I still have a lot I could be doing, not giving into yelling or I tend to trying to leave when she gets mad to a different room, or not coming off so critical, but I feel so hopeless when I feel like she is doing nothing at all. She wont read my books I gave her about helping relationships or look up articles on the internet or anything. Granted she's been going to work and school over and over and stressing out a lot, so I know she doesn't have that much time. I've already graduated a year and a half ago and am on my career.

 

Anyway, that was long winded... maybe you guys have similar experiences with someone you love that was really defensive? Something I could do to help her? Maybe you see something in here I'm doing really wrong? Please don't tell me to break up again because of our past or whatever, I don't want to hear it. It's going to happen if nothing gets fixed so I'm not going to force it.

[Geishawhelk]

Three thoughts.

 

Maybe she needs therapy.

Maybe you need therapy together.

Maybe you're just not compatible.

[orangesean]

I think we both agreed we needed therapy together, but we're long distance at the moment. 2 hours apart. I'm planning on moving there in January and finding another job (if not for the economy) so we can live together like we used to, instead of only seeing eachother on weekends. So therapy together is sort of undoable at the moment. My therapist offered phone therapy between us both, but I don't think it's the same, as I've done a phone therapy session before. Also insurance companies don't cover phone therapy and it's also more expensive, so we couldn't afford it.

[You'reasian]

Being physically abusive toward any woman is not a good thing, doesn't matter how bad you argue things out - if she hits you, sure defend yourself, but it should be purely defensive unless she makes an attempt on your life.

 

Perhaps you guys aren't compatible. Nothing wrong with that. Realize this before the relationship goes any further, take some time to get over it and move on.

 

You will be much happier for it later.

[orangesean]

Being physically abusive toward any woman is not a good thing' date=' doesn't matter how bad you argue things out - if she hits you, sure defend yourself, but it should be purely defensive unless she makes an attempt on your life.[/quote']

 

I do realize that and I am trying to keep it a permanent thing in the past for me. I'm not trying to justify it. I was wrong, incredibly completely wrong and I had/have an anger problem. I do go to therapy, I feel I've made a lot of great strides. I'm really just asking about vocal arguments here, but there is a physical past. I'm trying to see how we can just extinguish fights that last too long, a good way to do it. Not drag it out.

 

Like I said, even after nearly five years of being with her, minues the 3-4 months we broke up, it's still heaven being with her when we aren't fighting. Maybe that's hard to convey. I'm sure we need couples therapy as the other poster said, since it's really complicated to solve this on a board. My plan was originally was to start when we got our bearings and I moved to be near her, but I feel so frustrated sometimes like I'm trying to fix things and they aren't fixing and I was wondering if you guys had tips or thoughts of things to try to hold off the fighting so much until we can really get into therapy.

[Walk]

You're girl won't stop being defensive after such a short period of time. You said it's only been about 5 months, right? You spent 4 years acting one way... and now you're expecting her to shrug that off, and suddenly show you she's got this huge amount of trust and hope in you and fling herself into reshaping how the two of you communicate? I don't think that'll happen for a long time still.

 

I'm just saying... a few months... versus several years. You're really going to have to put a heck of a lot more patience into this then you might be feeling right now.

 

my H and I used to have huge arguments and I'd get incredibly defensive. Got to the point where he really couldn't even open his mouth without me assuming it was going to be about something he felt I wasn't doing right, or good enough, again. It was an incredible struggle to change how we communicated with each other.

 

Read everything you can on defensive communication. There are things you can do to help lower her level of defensiveness, and increase the communication between the two of you. But at this point... I think you're going to have to do the lions share of the work to get the relationship back on track.

 

http://www.healthy.net/scr/Article.asp?Id=2533&xcntr=1

 

 

Pick your battles. If it's not life or death right now, then drop it. When you're irritated then find something you appreciate about her and think of that.

 

Oh, and learn how to express what your feeling in terms of you. i.e. you are feeling sad, hurt, frustrated, afraid, lonely... etc. And ask for what you want. Sounds to me like you two are fighting to get some basic needs met, but both of you are too afraid to just come out and say what you want from the other. Ask her to do the same.

[lofi_tokyo]

Wow I'm insane, this was meant to be a new thread, not a reply, I am sorry.

[carhill]

Wrong thread, TV??

 

On-topic...

I'm trying to see how we can just extinguish fights that last too long, a good way to do it. Not drag it out.

 

We worked this out in MC. We agreed whoever needed a timeout to regroup could ask for it and it would be granted without discussion. The caveat was that the person who asked would say when they would resume the discussion and it was up to them to initiate. It's worked well.

 

Personally, I think you're incompatible, probably more so than my wife and I are. It's just conflicting perspective energy dynamic. If I were in your shoes, not being married, and even if I was, I'd move on.

 

Sometimes you just have to call it on account of darkness ....