Another Perspective on Marriage

[BeRealistic]

Im sure since this is a marriage forum this issue has been raised 100 times but its 4am and Im too tired to search.

 

So here it is:

 

I am getting to the point that I think marriage is something that was originally created by insecure men to keep women from being with other men. And I genuinely believe that. I dont know if any of you out there are Sociologists or Sociology majors, or history majors, but the origins of Marriage go back to a very male dominated time when men killed women for adultery, but didnt kill men for adultery, and to this day, promiscuous women are considered sluts while promiscuous men are considered studs.

 

YES i am a male.

 

I see no problem believing that marriage was simply a way of placing ownership on the woman, and keeping other men away from her. Even today in America we prove that marriage is nothing more than an "ownership" by wearing rings on our fingers to tell people we're "taken" and to stay away. People get angry when a spouse takes off the ring, because their mark of ownership wasn't present around other men right? All of this is left over from the original intent - which is placing ownership and keeping others away by marking someone's territory. Its as simple as that.

 

Though we may have assigned meaning to it of a much nicer type (love, etc) and though it can be one of the most beautiful types of relationships, I do not believe marriage is logical NOR necessary for Love. I am thoroughly convinced at this point that marriage is also not even remotely natural for human beings, let alone any animal on this planet. Its not a natural process to stay with someone your entire life JUST FOR THE SAKE of staying with someone. Despite being happy or miserable. People change. Their "path" changes. Their needs change. Its retarded, illogical, and absurd to claim that this wont ever happen. And I can prove it. How?

 

The 50% divorce rate clearly establishes that at least 50% of people do not wish to be with their spouse any more. If that weren't enough proof that humans don't want to stay together "forever", among the remaining 50%, what percent are just staying together because they think they should? Half of them? This board is full of unhappily married people, and those are the remaining 50% ! This means that nearly 75% of married people eventually do not want to be with that person any longer.

 

The reasons for this can be many. Some might say the rate has gone up over the years because people dont care as much about the commitment, or have become more sinful, or don't respect the sanctity of marriage, etc etc etc. But the fact is that nearly 90% of people who try to be together forever, ultimately at least FEEL like they dont want to do it anymore, eventually.

 

That proves my point. The entire concept of marriage is unnatural and not realistic.

 

I think what is reasonable is this: being with someone can be beautiful - and love can be REAL in any kind of relationship .... whether or not you get dressed up one day and go to a church and sign some papers. To me that process is nothing more than a ritual. A physical act which conveys something far more important: Love. But its still nothing more than a physical act. You get benefits from the government, you get the peace of mind of knowing that cheating is less likely, and that she'll stay with you even if you end up being a dick. You get to tag her like a deer to keep other deer away from her because you now own her (wearing a ring). And you get social acceptance from others (family, friends, and other various judgmental parties). That's about all getting married really does.

 

But that isnt what marriage is. And you dont have to DO that to be "married". To me, marriage is Love. Love transcends a paper, and it transcends a judge, and it transcends a ritual performed in a church. All of those things are merely physical manifestations of Love. They are symbols, just like baptism is a symbol of salvation, and holy water is a symbol of forgiveness and cleansing. The things they REPRESENT are immaterial and eternal. Love is something that can be shared between a man and a woman without an absurd expectation that they will never change, or grow, or that they will always get along. That expectation was introduced by insecure men who knew they may mistreat the woman and she could NOT leave them if she became unhappy. Marriage is placing ownership. It has nothing to do with love.

 

I have seen so many people UNHAPPY in marriages that I have stayed as far away from it as possible. But I have also seen people who are very happy in marriages, and I see no reason why what they have can't be had without the paperwork. Is there some rule you can't love someone without being married? Of course not. These are human rituals and nothing more.

 

I think we would do society a favor to acknowledge that people change, and needs change, and that it isnt "evil" or "wrong" to spend 20 wonderful years with someone, and even have a family, and then move on to other things, if it doesnt work out. The blind mentality of "FOREVER NO MATTER WHAT" is absurd. Of course you work at it. Of course you try to make it last. Your own needs will REQUIRE you to work your heart out to make it last. I believe that is natural !!! But if it comes to a point where it no longer makes sense, or one party has closed off completely, or abuse, or adultery or whatever .... "Together forever" becomes a death sentence, and we only have one chance to enjoy this life.

 

I dont believe its a sin to want to be happy.

[me4u2]

I can relate to much of what you've posted. I still believe in marriage though and giving it all you've got until you've reached the point of seeing that nothing will change or you've grown so much apart that you can't seem to get back what you once had.

 

I think the part that rings true is where you expand on feeling rotten for wanting to move on and feeling torn by feeling that you need to stay for the "sake" of something.

 

Where I'm stuck though is the children part. I think when you have children it gets extremely complicated to tell yourself that it's ok to move on because you have innocent ones that love you both equally and want to see you together. If the split is not accomplished in a civil and adult manner, it damages the children - whether temporary or long-term. Sure if you are in a relationship where there is constant fighting or a constant tension in the air, I believe it would be best to split. But you have what I have, which is silent unhappiness and no fighting in front of the kids, then it makes things infinitely more difficult to call it quits.

 

If I ever left, I can't say that I would be closed off to marriage again. I just don't know because I haven't invisioned my relationship to that point yet.

 

You make some very interesting points, especially the one about how many people in long term relationships ended up "feeling" like they don't want to continue at some point.

[Lizzie60]

I could have written your post.. I agree.. marriage is not necessary..

 

I never believed in marriage. the only 'benefit' I see is the 'survivor's benefits'..

 

It's true about the ring.. it's THE ownership 'sign'...

 

I think that when people marry.. they 'think' they are 'safe' that they now own the other person.. it takes the 'excitement' away IMO.

 

You are very generous.. 50% divorce rate.. I think it's way more than that.. because only the 'marriage' are compiled.. it's way more if you calculate the long-term common-law relationships... so IMO.. it's illogical to think two persons can live happily ever after for their whole life.. it just doesn't happen.

 

Like you say.. a lot of people do not divorce or separate because of the children.. so that doesn't make them a 'loving couple'..

 

The 50% divorce rate clearly establishes that at least 50% of people do not wish to be with their spouse any more. If that weren't enough proof that humans don't want to stay together "forever", among the remaining 50%, what percent are just staying together because they think they should? Half of them? This board is full of unhappily married people, and those are the remaining 50% ! This means that nearly 75% of married people eventually do not want to be with that person any longer.

I think the best way to look at a relationship is to see it as a 'journey' between two persons in love and this journey will last for a certain time.

 

People change ... so does the 'rituals' and the 'us et coutumes'.

 

The blind mentality of "FOREVER NO MATTER WHAT" is absurd.

 

this is soooo true.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

I think we would do society a favor to acknowledge that people change, and needs change, and that it isnt "evil" or "wrong" to spend 20 wonderful years with someone, and even have a family, and then move on to other things, if it doesnt work out.

 

Yeah, except then you've bastardized the children. And one spouse...typically the pregnant one...loses out on retirement benefits for all the time she's taken away from work to bear the children. It's not like a gal cops a squat in the filed, pops out the babe, throws it in her satchel and keeps on working.

 

Marriage is a way for the male to create a secure environment for the female in exchange for bearing his young.

 

If two people want to be together without benefit of marriage, have at it. But don't diss the people who hold marriage sacred, even when it's tough.

[BareGoddess]

L&F I agreed with a lot of that. Good post.

 

As for this:

 

The 50% divorce rate clearly establishes that at least 50% of people do not wish to be with their spouse any more. If that weren't enough proof that humans don't want to stay together "forever", among the remaining 50%, what percent are just staying together because they think they should? Half of them? This board is full of unhappily married people, and those are the remaining 50% ! This means that nearly 75% of married people eventually do not want to be with that person any longer.

 

So does that mean that most people don't like to live comfortably and make a good living too? I mean about 50% (if not more) of human beings in the world suffer from poverty.

 

Does that mean they prefer to live that way? Or does it mean they simply don't have the means, wherewithal, education, gumption, stamina, etc. etc. to achieve a better quality of life?

 

That said, I absolutely agree with you here:

 

The blind mentality of "FOREVER NO MATTER WHAT" is absurd. Of course you work at it. Of course you try to make it last. Your own needs will REQUIRE you to work your heart out to make it last. I believe that is natural !!! But if it comes to a point where it no longer makes sense, or one party has closed off completely, or abuse, or adultery or whatever .... "Together forever" becomes a death sentence, and we only have one chance to enjoy this life.

 

It's a complex subject. No two marriages are alike. Marriage is absolutely not for everyone, that's for sure.

 

(P.S. We're happily married 13 years -together 14)

[quankanne]

marriage is a leap of faith, pure and simple. Especially when you don't know what the future holds, and you understand that change is going to come ... yet you value that relationship to a point where you do your best to uphold it.

[BareGoddess]

Well said, Quank!

 

Some people can whether the storms and change and others can't.

[marlena]

Some people can whether the storms and change and others can't.

 

Some people should weather the storms while others should clearly not... not at the expense of their health, both physical and emotional, their self-esteem, their peace of mind, their well-being in general.

[BareGoddess]

Some people should weather the storms while others should clearly not... not at the expense of their health, both physical and emotional, their self-esteem, their peace of mind, their well-being in general.

 

Oh absolutely. I already said above that I agreed with the OP on that. But I wasn't talking about in cases of abuse, etc.

 

I mean some people bail at the first sign of disappointment or difficulty. They can't or won't stick through the hard times - the normal bumps in the road.

[Holding-On]

Ah the value of a long term relationship...

 

 

" We grow and change and find meaning, not in a world of infinite possibility — and this relates to the whole matter of monogamy — we find meaning because there are limitations. If we actually had unlimited possibility and control, nothing would ever mean anything. Some of us, as we go through life and endure hardships, close off; we have short-term ways of managing that are designed to make us feel better but not to grow. Other people are willing to feel some of the discomfort from their mistakes, and that's the bedrock of what it takes to grow. If we're open and honest with ourselves, and are willing to take risks and think a little more about who we are than who they should be, sustained intimacy can be an incredible crucible for growth. Ultimately, marriage can be a forum for learning through a kind of creative constraint, an exploration of your own self in no small part because of the kinds of choices you have to make to stay together."

 

 

I got it from an interview with Mark McConnell who wrote a book on this. He states matter of factly about happiness in marriage being very elusive but sites other reason for humans to have long term marriages.

 

http://www.macleans.ca/canada/national/article.jsp?content=20080723_68063_68063

 

Disclaimer: I personally think that this can apply to poly relationships too. He talks about monogamy as a constraint but I think simply choosing to be together through all the changes of each others lives is a pretty big constraint in and of itself.

[jwi71]

1 Corinthians 7:1-2

 

If it good in His eyes, its good enough for me.

[luvstarved]

Most people who are no longer benefitting from their marriage DO get divorces. Many others feel "unhappy", unfulfilled yet stay because of convenience, fear, practical benefits, whatever reason...

 

Bottom line is, it is a choice. How a marriage is conducted, in my mind, is negotiated between the two people involved. The decision to stay and participate and honor the terms agreed upon is an individual choice...

 

Any human relationship has its peaks and valleys...and human relationships are more complex than "animal" relationships because humans are more complex...I don't really buy this argument about polyamorous nature, etc.

We ARE animals, but light years above the rest of the kingdom, and the point of marriage, BEYOND the practical benefits, is to have a truly intimate relationship with another human. I think that humans are TOO complex to aspire to achieve that level of intimacy with multiple people...most are too complex to achieve it with ONE person, and that contributes to the divorce rate probably more than anything else...that, and the inherent lack of real desire or capacity to have that intimate a relationship in the first place.

 

Marriage is not for everyone. A lot of people want the stability of a mate to help with the nuts and bolts of life, but don't want to give up their "freedom". A lot of people don't have to...a lot of people hold out for someone that is a proper fit for their values and lifestyle, others "settle" for the best they believe they can get. A lot of people do it for love, a lot do it because of tradition or societal pressure.

 

Like I said, we are all complex, and we are all individuals. It isn't fair or accurate to say marriage is this or that, good or bad, right or wrong, natural or unnatural.

 

We all have our reasons, and in the end we stay or leave, marry or don't, because of the cost/benefit ratio we determine to relate to our situation.

 

In the end, the best thing that we can do is to try to understand, accept and be true to our selves. Even that is a tall order, and trying to do it with another person in the mix makes it even harder...but for some of us, it is worth it.

 

It isn't always a matter of gritting your teeth and carrying on in quiet desperation...sometimes it is a matter of being willing to work for and have faith that the peaks will come again, and get fulfillment from the intimacy and shared history that you get with a marriage.

 

I just watched an old movie last night - from the 40s - and an older couple told their daughter (who thought they'd never had any marital issues) - how many times did we say we hated each other, how many times did we want to run away screaming - then... how many times did we have to fall in love all over again?

 

Nothing is perfect, but much is possible.

[BareGoddess]

Bravo, bravo, bravo, luv! You said it all and very eloquently I might add.