Family Controls Her...

[TheRock]

My GF's family controls her... Today we were to go to the City and spend the day together re-building our relationship. She called me excited to go this morning. Then called me back a half hour later crying hysterically. Her parents needed her to rake leaves and said if she chooses to go to the City with me then she doesn't love her family and is not putting them first. She tried to explain to them that they are ruining "our" relationship because this keeps happening everytime we have plans. She apologized to me. I've been dating her for 2 1/2 years now and her friends AND sis-in-law have all told me that my GF's father is like a Nazi trying to control her. He uses mind games to manipulate her. She's tried to get out and rent an Apt., but he offers her money to buy a house and he talks her out of hit, dangling $100k to her to buy a house, but it has to be something HE approves of... We do love eachother, but the parents are killing "us". I used to interfere by "giving her advice" on how to deal with it, but I backed off. She's 31 and needs to make her own decision on this. What else can I do?

[Ronni_W]

Nothing. You cannot do anything for a 31-year old who allows her parents to treat her as if she is 11. That is a choice that she is making, consciously or unconsciously, to not grow up as far as they are concerned.

[aqueousfall]

really? 31 years old? at start i was actually picturing you guys as teenagers, she has to stand up for herself, why is she letting her father do this?

[Brimstone_Angel]

I agree something is wrong here. My parents stopped telling me what to do when I turned 18 and went into advice mode and they definitely DO NOT give me a guilt trip when I put myself first. She has to be the one to break away and stand up on her own two feet.

[2sure]

Hey, houses are expensive. Many parents try to ingratiate themselves to their children...by holding mortgages, and then the reins to their lives. Its tempting to accept - and rarely a good move, especially for a prospective son in law. IF Dad would let you live there.

 

But she is 31. And her father is manipulating her via yard work. Raking. 31. Leaves. Father. Yard Work. ...and then Crying???

This has less and less to do with her father. Princess syndrome on both their parts. If you marry her the only difference will be you will be the one raking the leaves. Because he will own your house.

[TheRock]

Her dad manipulates her in many ways. That's why her brother moved out as quick as he could. I think one reason she can't pull herself away is she never had a "great" relationship with her dad and almost lost him in an accident several years ago. I think in some wierd way, she enjoys his interfering as a sign of "a relationship" since they hadn't had one...even if it is destroying her life. She really does care for me, but is torn between her family and moving on with me, and when they manipulate her by saying "You don't love us if you don't do...blah blah blah" she feels guilty that they think she doesn't love them. It's ALL head games. He says "If you're not home for Sunday Dinner, you don't love us" He calls her 20 times a day to check up on her, has no problem barging into her bedroom when she's in her panties, etc. Strange Bird. I don't like it and want to say something, but don't want to ruin my relationship with the parents. Prior to the Dad's intereference, which began when she and I started to get serious, everything was relatively good. No major arguments. I'm holding on hoping she'll move out and make her own decisions. Until then how do I handle the father?

[kizik]

My friend, I am sorry to tell you that there is nothing you can do. You are in the midst of a difficult situation, one which you are not a part of and cannot control.

 

Listen, the family will always be the same. Trust me, I relate to your story and I know of what I speak. My ex's parents were enmeshed in her life, and she allowed it, and there was no place for me - it was always about the family.

 

You need to express to her the discomfort this whole thing is causing you. You cannot compete with her family; it is going to drive you insane. Be honest with her about how you feel.

 

You may need to tactfully remove yourself from the situation, and sadly, perhaps, the relationship. Other LSers may disagree, but you're in the throes of something you can't fix, something that is going to damage your self-esteem b/c you will ALWAYS be secondary to her controlling family.

 

Josh

[norajane]

Her dad manipulates her in many ways. That's why her brother moved out as quick as he could.

 

Her brother had the strength of mind to move out and create his own life. Your gf does not. Same father, different outcomes, your gf is the one who is allowing this to happen.

 

It's not you who has to "handle" her father. She does. She needs to make a decision whether she will continue to live under her father's thumb and allow herself to just cry, or whether she's going to pull up her big girl panties and create a life she actually wants to live.

 

Right now, her father is more important to her than her own desires for her life, which makes you #3 on the list of priorities.

[Ronni_W]

The other thing is that, until she has had some long-term, in-depth therapy, you will be in relationship with a child in an adult's body.

 

She has not had an opportunity to learn self-reliance, self-responsibility, assertiveness, decision-making, etc...none of the basics of how to take care of her own needs and desires in healthy, appropriate, ADULT ways.

And, until she does, she will always look to other adults to "parent" her - partner, boss, best friend - she will seek and take counsel from anyone who gives it.

 

Though, of course, if your relationship style is more 'parenting' than 'partnering' it will work very well, as long as you both keep the same "styles".

[TheRock]

I contemplated taking a "parenting" approach, but I do not want to "control" her like her father does. I want her to be herself and have her own life, make her own mistakes, etc. Yesterday, she stopped by my apartment and brought me a "gift" she picked up a few days ago "cause she was thinking of me". She went home as her bro and sis-in-law were supposed to come over to her parent's house to celebrate their 1st anniversary dinner. The sis-in-law backed out the day before, then right before dinner, my GF's bro backed out. My GF's dad was MAD...prob doesn't realize why, but i think that they don't want to bother with the family, as they avoid the dad a lot. So, my GF ate with her parents, then went to her brother's for awhile (maybe for some advice) and later at night, she texted me a few times, and eventually texted me "goodnite xoxo" like usual. I texted back. Haven't heard from her today yet. I know she has a crazy week this week, work-wise. Will hopefully hear from her or call her tonight. I know she's prob VRY confused right now, but that might explain why I haven't heard from her...

[Ronni_W]

I contemplated taking a "parenting" approach, but I do not want to "control" her like her father does. I want her to be herself and have her own life,

Not that I was suggesting that a Parent-to-Child ought to be goal in adult relationships, though. Only that that is what you guys are gonna be stuck with until she can do Adult-to-Adult, if she ever learns how.

 

The thing is, I'm not sure if she's been allowed to find out who "Herself" is -- it sounds more like she is whatever her parents, especially Nazi Dad, tells her she is, at any given moment.

Does she KNOW her own needs, desires, dreams, values, thoughts, opinions, etc? Does she know how to express those, and how to stand up for herself, when she is with you?

[TheRock]

The thing is, I'm not sure if she's been allowed to find out who "Herself" is -- it sounds more like she is whatever her parents, especially Nazi Dad, tells her she is, at any given moment.

Does she KNOW her own needs, desires, dreams, values, thoughts, opinions, etc? Does she know how to express those, and how to stand up for herself, when she is with you?

 

You are on the money. She doesn't know what she wants lately and is all over the map. Prior to "Daddy's Interference" 8-10 months into our relationship, she thought she knew what she wanted. We talked about it often...Kids, House, traveling together, etc.... Since then, she has lost her self-esteem, not able to believe she can do ANYTHING for herself, like cooking, paying bills, etc. I reassure her she can and even ask her to cook with me and PURPOSELY ask her to bake a pie or cookies for me, so she can see she can do it. While she realizes he's responsible for "her issues", he justifies through manipulation saying that she "doesn't love them". She's complained over the last year and a half that she no longer knows what she wants, if she'd make a good mother, wife, etc. He's really messed her up. She's weak and has difficulty standing up to him. This sucks. She's been calling me, saying "I love you", etc. but I can hear in her voice she's confused and scared...

[Ronni_W]

Prior to "Daddy's Interference" 8-10 months into our relationship, she thought she knew what she wanted.

I'm sure it is tough on you, too, especially since you really are powerless to effect any meaningful change.

 

Am I interpreting correctly that she was basically well-functioning when you started dating her 30 months ago? Then, around 20 to 22 months ago, she more-or-less reverted to a seriously childlike state because of "daddy's interference" at that time?

Because it would be highly unusual, for a well-functioning 29-year old to somehow be able to get to where, at 31, she is allowing her parents to guilt and manipulate her into raking leaves instead of going on her pre-planned date with her b/f of 2.5 years.

 

Do you know what, for her, is the biggest motivator that is keeping her so nicely "in line" -- the family's money or their love and affection? If you do not know for sure, do you have a guess?

 

Do you know what, specifically, her parents find so fearful or offensive about you, that they went into mental meltdown once you guys "started to get serious"? Is there a cultural difference that may be part of it?

 

If I may ask, what are you seeing in your future, that is supporting and encouraging you to continue your relationship with her? What are the positive about her family, that will ensure your mutual happiness? (We can already get a sense of the negatives, that could easily destroy it.)

 

It is great that she realizes what is responsible for her underlying issues, but SHE is 100% responsible for her emotional healing and recovery. At 31, it doesn't fly to just blame Daddy for her lack of healthy life skills, and not do anything at all to improve her own situation and develop the necessary skills. But, as you said, that is a decision that has to come from her, and can only come from her.

[TheRock]

Everything was great UNTIL we became serious. Then, all of a sudden, her father stepped in. It's like he disrupts every time we are together. Away on vacation, he calls and antagonizes her, putting her in a bad mood, or says she needs to come home for an "emergency", which always turns out to be nothing at all. We had plans this past Sunday and he gave her a hard time about leaving the house. She was all upset, then she came over in a bad mood about it and upset that she's hurting me by ruining our plans all the time.

 

Her main problem is she seeks her parents approval and doesn't want to disappoint them. She's seeking love and affection that she never got from her dad.

 

I know her mother and grandmother are very fond of me. They constantly do nice things for me and have said they hope I marry her someday. The father...I don't know. My GF says he likes me, but I feel HE thinks I'm not good enough, cause "He didn't pick me out for her"... He wasn't in control. He's even made comments that in the past HE should have set her up with "so and so". He's the only one that's a problem here.

 

I'm staying in this, because the 1st 8-10 months were phenomenal. Better than any relationship either of us has been in. We bond well, have a great time together and NEVER argued about anything until this. She and I are like bookends and fit well together. We envisioned a life together, until this all began.

[Ronni_W]

She's seeking love and affection that she never got from her dad.

Would it also be accurate to say: she's seeking a kind of love and affection from her dad that he is just not capable of providing to her?

 

Cos that could help her -- if she can understand that THIS is how her dad's love and affection looks. For him, he IS giving her love and affection.

 

To any observer, yeah, it is of course totally dysfunctional, discouraging and non-supportive. And, he may even be able to give a more uplifting kind to others. But, in his "Dad's mind", this is how one does it with this daughter.

 

Perhaps she is looking for (expecting) something from him that he just doesn't have to give her?

[TheRock]

she wants approval and acceptance from her father, which she will NEVER get. Nothing is ever good enough for him. He criticizes her about the way she eats, sits at the table, talks, dresses, time she goes out or comes home, wants to know where she is at all times, calls her 10-20 times a day, etc...NO EXAGGERATION. I've witnessed it. Unfortunately, he doesn't see that she is one of the BEST females out there. She's got morals and values, and is a respectable person. She is 20 times better than most girls out there when it comes to these things. Her friend's refer to her father as a Nazi Dictator, because of the way he acts. He never let her go to slumber parties as a child or birthday parties, etc. She can't accept that he's ruined her life.

[replicator]

she wants approval and acceptance from her father, which she will NEVER get. Nothing is ever good enough for him. He criticizes her about the way she eats, sits at the table, talks, dresses, time she goes out or comes home, wants to know where she is at all times, calls her 10-20 times a day, etc...NO EXAGGERATION. I've witnessed it. Unfortunately, he doesn't see that she is one of the BEST females out there. She's got morals and values, and is a respectable person. She is 20 times better than most girls out there when it comes to these things. Her friend's refer to her father as a Nazi Dictator, because of the way he acts. He never let her go to slumber parties as a child or birthday parties, etc. She can't accept that he's ruined her life.

 

Man - that sounds like my ex's mom. Her mother acted like a brutal dictator, and she just desperately wanted her approval and affection more than anything else. Yes, I took the back seat to her parents. I thought it was okay, because they were her parents - they raised her. Now when I look back, I see how it would never have worked between us because her parents would have always caused tension between us.

 

I can relate with your situation, and really, it is a tough one. If you try to get in between her and her parents, you will cause her lots of grief, and she may come to resent you for making her choose. I don't want to sound too negative, but perhaps it hits a bit close to home. I hope it does work out - just communicate, and try your best to be understanding. Don't let pride in the way - explain to her how you honestly feel without getting angry or taking pot shots at her parents. You don't want to put her in a defensive position.

[TheRock]

My GF wound up calling me Sunday and was apologetic and sincere. She said that she was helping her mother prepare things for her sis-in-laws baby shower, so we weren't going to go to the wine tasting. She counter-offered by asking me to dinner for Monday AND promised to clear her schedule to make sure there'd be NO interference.

 

She was true to her word. We went out to dinner and had one of the BEST times together that we've had since we started dating 2 1/2 years ago!! Romantic and Fun! We ended the night with a passionate kissing session and expressed that we BOTH had a great time. She's called me every night. Our calls\texts used to be about 2-4 times a day prior to our big fight, now unfortunately they are 1-2 times a day. She is definitely being cautious. But, I'm taking a step back and not pressuring her to "get things back to normal quickly" as much as I'd like them to be. It's obvious we Both want our relationship to continue. (I just don't know what we "are" to eachother right now...friends, lovers, a couple, more). It appears that she IS trying and wants "US". She's just very confused right now.

 

Problem now is we haven't truly discussed the issues (her dad's interference and her refusal to stand up to him) that caused the fights and HOW we are going to deal with it moving forward AND what we want\what we are to each other. I want to keep things light and fun like last Monday, but WHEN is a good time to bring up this HEAVY discussion, before it happens again (and it will). We need to come up with a way to deal with it that makes us BOTH happy. I don't want the talk to turn into another argument and don't want it to be stressfull. HOW and WHEN do I bring this up? Wait a few days? Weeks? Month?

[Scottdmw]

It's a very tough situation--I was in a similar one with my ex-fiancee who ended up leaving me because of her mom's disapproval.

 

What I would say is, you should be understanding of your girlfriend's situation, but you also have to take care of yourself. Don't let it turn into a relationship where half the time her father gets what he wants, half the time she gets what she wants, and you don't get a vote.

 

Basically, while you are understanding of her situation you should not allow it to impact how you expect her to treat you. If she cancels plans, treat it as any other woman who cancels plans for the silliest of reasons. Remember that she is consciously choosing her family over you and watching your reaction. If she sees over and over that you will accept whatever she gives you, she will actually lose respect for you and be less attracted to you. It is her responsibility to deal with her parents and make her plans and promises accordingly, not expect you to make it right for her, or expect you to deal with her parents.

 

In practice, if she treats you badly you may have to back off. Show less interest in her and in the relationship. Put energy into other things. Reconsider in your own mind if this is really what you want, or if you might be happier with a different woman. If she makes it up to you then you can come closer again. You should not give a verbal ultimatum, and be cautious about in any other way criticizing her parents. Just require that she treat you with respect as a condition of continuing the relationship. Remember that nothing will ever change unless you basically require it and show a willingness to walk away. If you accept bad behaviour now, it will only get worse in marriage. If you allow her to continue as she is she will likely not change because it is much easier for her to stay the same. Do not put any weight at all on promises to change, only look at actions.

 

I can't promise this will work, but speaking from experience I suspect that if you let her get away with treating you badly you only delay the end of the relationship and increase its pain for yourself.

[cerul]

Being a female that was in the same type of situation, I’m going to have to disagree with some things that "Scottdmw" said.

 

Remember that she is consciously choosing her family over you and watching your reaction. If she sees over and over that you will accept whatever she gives you, she will actually lose respect for you and be less attracted to you.

 

I always had a greater respect for my fiancé-at-the-time who gave me the space and room to deal with balancing my family at home and my relationship with him. (Which made it hurt even more when I eventually broke up with him.)

My family is extremely important to me; I love them all very much and respect their views. Even when my mom and sister said directly to my fiancé-at-the-time’s that they liked him (as her mother and grandmother said to you), they would come to me later and discuss what they didn’t like – which only served in breaking my heart.

 

Running back and forth between family and boyfriend isn’t something that I would wish on anyone. Either way you’re going behind someone’s back and you end up not only hurting yourself, but those around you as well. Your straining of relationships to a breaking point is a headache in itself. If your girlfriend is really a sweet and loyal girl and you say that she is, then it is her sweetness and loyalty comes from the nurturing given to her by her family. You tear her away from her family and you tear her away from who she is.

 

You many disagree with this but; I feel that a lot of people make themselves believe that the relationship they are in now is thee relationship and it can’t get any better than this. However, I also feel that in a situation like your own, in which you have to be fighting the family for the girl, then maybe you should get out in a way that "kizik" mentioned on page 1. I believe that there is someone better for you. I do. But, this is your 'relationship' and I cannot force you to do anything, only giving you faceless advice over the Internet.

[wierdmunky]

ugh I hate parents like this. For some reason I think that these are people that feel like they are missing something, and have to control. These poor kids, like you said, want nothing but acceptance from their parents. No one is perfect, I understand, but if she says like you say, that she is better than a lot of other girls, then I don't feel like she is being disrespectful to her parents for them to act like that towards her for any reason, other than that they have their own issues.

 

I feel like that the roles of a parent are of guidance, and love. We still need to understand that they are normal people with their own needs, but as far as ignoring your role as a parent because you have problems within yourself, and letting that bleed into your parenting.... why?

 

I think her parents are taking things way too far. What is it that they need from her to make them happy anyway? I think parents like this are really defensive too, and have a hard time communicating.

 

I would suggest moving out? And let her know that she doesn't need approval from them to be the person that she is. She is already great, and can continue on through life without negativity like that.

[wierdmunky]

Her parents also fail to realize what an impact they have on her. If they were to notice that then maybe they could see how great they themselves are for raising someone.

[andle]

You're in a relationship with a wonderful woman who, sadly, is the 'prize' in a tug-of-war between you and her dad. That's not your perspective but it is his, and he isn't going to give her up. Unfortunately, she'll likely remain an emotional prisoner to his control as long as he's alive.

 

The really hard part is accepting that this is how its gonna be, for years, and the choice is either to live with it or move on. In a very similar situation, I chose to move on because I knew I could never be okay with the constant conflict of his influence in how to raise our kids.

 

Afterward, I realized I'd allowed my happiness to depend on some wished-for expectation of her behavior, which in turn, also depended on his.

[kizik]

I am really pleased with the excellent quality of advice here, and, as a guy who constantly had to fight for my girlfriend's attention because of her twisted R with her parents - well, like Rep said, this all hits very close to home.

 

Scott and cerul bring up some very important and interesting ideas. I think something these ideas share is that TheRock needs to back off. He is not getting the respect he deserves, but ultimately, the situation is unwinnable. Unwinnable for TheRock. Unwinnable for the GF who in really under Dad's control. Hell, it's even unwinnable for Hitler Dad because his daughter's always going to have SOME BF, I get the feeling.

 

Cute, smart young girl. Great boyfriend. But parents who f*cked up and raised their daughter to be needy and dependent on them. Totally unwinnable.

 

The only choice is to get out and hope she comes to her senses. Unfortunately, as the parents are most likely her financial providers, she can't walk away so easily.

 

I know this scenario; I've seen it up close and personal. I didn't walk away willingly - I was forced out, in some ways - but now that it's over, I can see it much smarter. I WAS JUST THE UNIMPORTANT BOYFRIEND. And every dude yours dates, yourself included, will ALWAYS, ALWAYS take the back seat to what her parents say. Until they die. End of story.

[Tomcat33]

Classic case of abuse. Have you ruled out sexual abuse from her father?

 

At the least he has clearly always emotionally abused her and having you step into the picture has just catapulted his violating behaviour 10 fold.

 

Have you discussed with her your concerns regarding how unhealthy this relationship is for her and her father? It's ok to be close to your parents but this lack of ability on her part of setting boundaries and lack of self-confidence is something that if she doesn't fix now in relation to her parents/father, will play out in your relationship with her once you move in together and form your own family.

 

Be very careful.