Not being fair

November 10, 2008

OK, let's get into that. I see a double standard at work. A woman can decide that a man is her "friend" and she can be affectionate with him as a friend and clearly see in her own mind and send out signals that there is nothing romantic between she and a male friend. Granted, it would seem to be more problematical with an "ex", but I have seen it with my own eyes when the parties are mature and have "moved on". Is the common perception that a man is a one-celled lust machine that pursues anyone sexually without self-control called into play, or can a man have the same mature affection and understanding that a woman does? This is where I take women to task for attempting to decide such things for a man. I find it disingenuous in the extreme.

Simply put, if the potential does not like or find attractive the OP's relationship with his ex (or any female friend for that matter), she can simply not associate with him. That's healthy, for her He, OTOH, should not have to feel guilty for, or make fundamental changes in his perspective on his friendships to accommodate what a woman (or women in general) feels to be his truth. It's "their" truth, not his. Freedom at work. Remember, OP, 3 billion out there. Lots of freedom

November 10, 2008

OK, let's get into that. I see a double standard at work. A woman can decide that a man is her "friend" and she can be affectionate with him as a friend and clearly see in her own mind and send out signals that there is nothing romantic between she and a male friend. Granted, it would seem to be more problematical with an "ex", but I have seen it with my own eyes when the parties are mature and have "moved on". Is the common perception that a man is a one-celled lust machine that pursues anyone sexually without self-control called into play, or can a man have the same mature affection and understanding that a woman does? This is where I take women to task for attempting to decide such things for a man. I find it disingenuous in the extreme.

If you're referring to me, there is no double standard. I said I would NOT be holding hands with an ex or a friend or anyone who isn't my bf. And I'd expect the same of any guy I dated.

There's friendship, and then there's holding hands.

Simply put, if the potential does not like or find attractive the OP's relationship with his ex (or any female friend for that matter), she can simply not associate with him.

Yes, and that's exactly what his new gf is doing - she's backing off. And she won't be the only girl who does so when she discovers how close he is with his ex.

November 10, 2008

The key is you decide for yourself, as the OP is. In his life, in his culture, in his dynamic, such things might be completely normal and acceptable and healthy.

See, I don't mind if women don't associate with me. I've had a lifetime of it. I value those few who do see and embrace my truth, and I theirs. That's the beauty of existence.

OP, I hope you find your path. If your ex is a true friend, I envy you. True friends are very hard to find.

November 10, 2008

Thank you, I agree.

I'd like to think I can come up with my own conclusions and listed out some possible tracks and plans of action, but you guys pointed out that my behavior would cause a new gf to back off and try to guard herself - something I couldn't see without putting myself in her shoes!

I don't wan't that. Ideally, I want to grow with someone and really enjoy each others time and company.

The pictures are going to be removed. I feel much better.

November 10, 2008

OP, happy to hear you've got some ideas.

Tell me, is your ex currently involved and, if so, how does her SO feel about your friendship dynamic?

I would say, if you do intend to make any marked changes in your "style" with your ex, that you talk with her about it. That way she can know that your intentions and emotions remain constant and that it is merely the style of showing those that will be changing, if that is your course.

Good luck!

November 10, 2008

So I'm wondering: do I try to smoothe over an explanation about my ex with my next gf?

Only way you should smooth it over is if you are willing to get rid of any pictures of you having sex with the X.

If you don't want to ditch the pics, then don't try to smooth it over because you shouldn't expect her to be ok with you keeping pics of you and someone else bumping uglies.

I want my privacy. I want to be able to keep this close and comfortable friendship with my ex, the pictures and other things.

Then you have no business being in a relationship. Not with her anyway. You'd need to find someone void of scruples that won't care.

At the same time, I would want to seek a romantic relationship with a new gf that has chemistry.

Is that wrong?

Yes

November 10, 2008

I agree. She had no right. I'm still wondering if she hadn't found them, if things would have been different? Its not like I absolutely need these photos, but I don't want to get rid of them either....I know, strange.

I've suggested the coffee thing - I thought it would be a great idea and my ex was all about it, but the gf had kind of an akward reaction to it. My ex was looking forward to meeting her and I was glad, but she would be on and off again about it

Thanks. I enjoy my privacy - I may decide to keep the pictures afterall? It might disregard her feelings, but dang - she brought this on herself.

You having an inappropriate(or not) relationship with you ex, in my opinion, doesn't have anything to do with your girlfriend invading your privacy. It seems like you try to justify one with the other, but that doesn't make mch sense to me. Her invading your privacy doesn't mean its right for you to have a quasi intimate relationship with your ex. I think your relationship with your EX from what you've wrote crosses the line of a "friendly relationship.

November 10, 2008

Only way you should smooth it over is if you are willing to get rid of any pictures of you having sex with the X.

If you don't want to ditch the pics, then don't try to smooth it over because you shouldn't expect her to be ok with you keeping pics of you and someone else bumping uglies.

Then you have no business being in a relationship. Not with her anyway. .

But seriously, these are pictures that are part of my past, not my current situation. If she can't get over this, then its her issue - not mine. Last time the ex and I hung out was a good 4 weeks before I even met my current gf - I mean, these pre-date us. And it still doesn't justify her invading my privacy!

You'd need to find someone void of scruples that won't care.

Is it bad of me to want someone to fully love me and respect me, yet not care about these things?

November 10, 2008

But seriously, these are pictures that are part of my past, not my current situation. If she can't get over this, then its her issue - not mine. Last time the ex and I hung out was a good 4 weeks before I even met my current gf - I mean, these pre-date us. And it still doesn't justify her invading my privacy!

Is it bad of me to want someone to fully love me and respect me, yet not care about these things?

It's naive to think that a woman who fully loves you will be able to not care that you have sex pics of your ex.

Look, you're not married to anyone, so keep your pics, keep your memories, just put them away in a safe place. YOu don't have to throw them out, but put them in a box of mementos. If you can't even manage to put them away, then that means you want them around to look at. That indicates you are still clinging to that relationship.

But if you want a woman to not care, forget it. Wouldn't you care if your gf kept sex pics, or R rated pics or whatever they are, of her and her ex in a drawer in her bedroom? Wouldn't you care if your gf had another man who called all the time and was her confidant and with whom she was physical and held hands with? You wouldn't care at all?

November 10, 2008

You having an inappropriate(or not) relationship with you ex, in my opinion, doesn't have anything to do with your girlfriend invading your privacy. It seems like you try to justify one with the other, but that doesn't make mch sense to me. Her invading your privacy doesn't mean its right for you to have a quasi intimate relationship with your ex. I think your relationship with your EX from what you've wrote crosses the line of a "friendly relationship.

My ex and I are strictly friends. Its okay for her to love me and I love her, so long as its understood that we are simply friends but the common theme that male and female posters here keep making is that I should draw some kind of line, either -

create some kind of distance with my ex, so as to respect the new gf

or as other posters have suggested

let her go and find someone else who would be okay with this.

Its such a tough decision - I have a close buddy who thinks I should just break up with her, but he kinda goes through relationships like toilet paper - still, he's a good, empowering and true friend, allbeit not the most moral.

November 10, 2008

It's naive to think that a woman who fully loves you will be able to not care that you have sex pics of your ex.

Look, you're not married to anyone, so keep your pics, keep your memories, just put them away in a safe place. YOu don't have to throw them out, but put them in a box of mementos. If you can't even manage to put them away, then that means you want them around to look at. That indicates you are still clinging to that relationship.

I think I will do just that, allbeit grudgingly....

But if you want a woman to not care, forget it. Wouldn't you care if your gf kept sex pics, or R rated pics or whatever they are, of her and her ex in a drawer in her bedroom? Wouldn't you care if your gf had another man who called all the time and was her confidant and with whom she was physical and held hands with? You wouldn't care at all?

I guess I would, but its only physical in the sense of hugging. The hand holding thing hasn't happened and it wouldn't be in the sense of anything romantic, rather just like a longer hand shake.

Thanks again for putting things in perspective. I guess I'll have to create a little space with the ex too.

November 10, 2008

OP, I have tried to see your perspective, but I must say the combination of intimate photographs being kept as well as the ongoing friendship with your ex does provide me with a moment or two of pause. I just wanted to inject that, lest I be thought of as an apologist.

Let me ask you this. Can you hug and be physically affectionate with your ex as a friend and not think about those intimate photographs or the sexual context which brought them into being? IMO, this is critical. If you're still seeing those visions, then IMO it's not fair to any woman to be brought into your current dynamic. I've been with women whom I love immensely (and show it) but have no sexual or romantic interest in. There is a difference in both the feelings and the context and method by which those feelings are shown. Those signals are evident to others, even if I am oblivious. Just some food for thought

November 12, 2008

Let me ask you this. Can you hug and be physically affectionate with your ex as a friend and not think about those intimate photographs or the sexual context which brought them into being? IMO, this is critical. If you're still seeing those visions, then IMO it's not fair to any woman to be brought into your current dynamic. I've been with women whom I love immensely (and show it) but have no sexual or romantic interest in. There is a difference in both the feelings and the context and method by which those feelings are shown. Those signals are evident to others, even if I am oblivious. Just some food for thought

I know what you mean. I mean, I love my ex but I'm not IN love with her - no sexual or romantic interests.

But the conflict comes when I introduce a new gf to this ex-gf of mine whom I love (but am not IN love with). Eventually she is going to hear me tell her "I love you" unless I try to hide it - and for the short-term it will cover things up, but eventually, if we are together long enough it will come up.

Maybe I could use this as a future deal breaker? She must be okay that I have a relationship with my ex?

I'd like to hear from the ladies on this one as well.

November 12, 2008

Would you be okay if your man loved an ex, but wasn't IN love with them?

November 12, 2008

IME, and I trust the ladies here will support this, women are pretty territorial when it comes to ex'es and "I love you's". Your ex should understand this and support you. You and she know what you share. A new person in your life doesn't have that knowledge. I'd tread carefully on this one.

Personally, for me, the dynamic of intimate pictures, hugs and "I love you's" would be a bit disconcerting....

November 12, 2008

But seriously' date=' these are pictures that are part of my past, not my current situation. If she can't get over this, then its her issue - not mine.[/quote']

Wrong. You have a past, everyone does. But YOU have pictures of f####g girls from your past. That is YOUR problem.

The past is in the past and you are holding on to the past by keeping these pictures.

Last time the ex and I hung out was a good 4 weeks before I even met my current gf - I mean, these pre-date us. And it still doesn't justify her invading my privacy!

No, it doesn't justify it. But you obviously have things to hide.

Too bad she doesn't have pics of her with guys from her past and you could see her being filled up by them. Then maybe you'd understand.

Is it bad of me to want someone to fully love me and respect me, yet not care about these things?

What is there to respect about someone that keeps sex pictures of ex-flames? I wouldn't be with a woman that had them.

The past is the past. I don't want someone that wants to cling to the past, especially in that way.

November 12, 2008

Is it bad of me to want someone to fully love me and respect me, yet not care about these things?

Like I said, you need to find someone void of scruples that won't care about these things. You need to find someone like yourself.

And maybe this person will have pictures of her riding other men for you to stumble across someday.

November 12, 2008

I know what you mean. I mean' date=' I love my ex but I'm not IN love with her - no sexual or romantic interests.[/quote']

Really? Then you should have no problem getting rid of the pictures.

But the conflict comes when I introduce a new gf to this ex-gf of mine whom I love (but am not IN love with). Eventually she is going to hear me tell her "I love you" unless I try to hide it

"i love you" is intended to be spoken to the person you are IN love with unless it is a family member.

I wouldn't care what the excuse, if I caught a woman of mine telling another man she loves him, she's history.

November 13, 2008

Dexter, you are forcing me to deal with my own situation in reverse. I suppose I've built up some kind of justification for these pictures, perhaps they still hold some kind of emotionally beneficial value? I'm sure in time I would have come around them again and maybe filed them away - but I think you are correct. Like I said, I'm planning on getting rid of them.

Now, to the "I love you" part. What's the big deal?

Can't you love someone whose been an important part of your life and are very close to but also have romantic love for someone else? I mean, you love your parents. You love your sister - this is the kind of love I have for my ex. I love her, but I'm not IN love with her.

Here I go again with that loop. I love her, but not in a romantic way, but I still want to be able to have romantic/sexual love with a girlfriend.

November 13, 2008

IME, and I trust the ladies here will support this, women are pretty territorial when it comes to ex'es and "I love you's". Your ex should understand this and support you. You and she know what you share. A new person in your life doesn't have that knowledge. I'd tread carefully on this one.

Personally, for me, the dynamic of intimate pictures, hugs and "I love you's" would be a bit disconcerting....

Thanks, Carhill.

I appreciate your opinion. It seems like a good mix of common sense, experience and down-right goodness.

November 13, 2008

Dexter, you are forcing me to deal with my own situation in reverse. I suppose I've built up some kind of justification for these pictures, perhaps they still hold some kind of emotionally beneficial value? I'm sure in time I would have come around them again and maybe filed them away - but I think you are correct. Like I said, I'm planning on getting rid of them.

Now, to the "I love you" part. What's the big deal?

Can't you love someone whose been an important part of your life and are very close to but also have romantic love for someone else? I mean, you love your parents. You love your sister - this is the kind of love I have for my ex. I love her, but I'm not IN love with her.

Yes, it's possible. But the experiences of most of us lead us to believe it's unlikely for exes to feel that way about each other - and have been burned by those kinds of declarations and the bf/gf's who make them. Especially when they have such a hard time putting away their sex pics.

November 13, 2008

Now, to the "I love you" part. What's the big deal?

Can't you love someone whose been an important part of your life and are very close to but also have romantic love for someone else? I mean, you love your parents. You love your sister - this is the kind of love I have for my ex. I love her, but I'm not IN love with her.

There is a big difference in caring for people, loving them as a human being, and loving someone who you like to still see yourself having sex with.

Here I go again with that loop. I love her, but not in a romantic way, but I still want to be able to have romantic/sexual love with a girlfriend.

Well that "romantic/sexual" love with a girlfriend is gonna be hard to have when they realize you have pictures of you boffing other girls.

Pictures from the past are fine. Pornographic pictures of other women riding you is not something you should expect a girlfriend to accept.

November 13, 2008

There is a big difference in caring for people, loving them as a human being, and loving someone who you like to still see yourself having sex with..

Even though my ex and I share alot of humor in the topic of sex, I assure you our relationship is not sexual - sure, we can hug each other and tell we love one another (again, we've been through ALOT together) but I don't want to cross that border.

Well that "romantic/sexual" love with a girlfriend is gonna be hard to have when they realize you have pictures of you boffing other girls.

Pictures from the past are fine. Pornographic pictures of other women riding you is not something you should expect a girlfriend to accept.

The pictures are not pornographic - just some makeout and embracing/hugging - think of a cover picture for a romance movie. I guess I'll have to hide them; they aren't intended for anyone else's eyes but my own.

November 13, 2008

Yes, it's possible. But the experiences of most of us lead us to believe it's unlikely for exes to feel that way about each other - and have been burned by those kinds of declarations and the bf/gf's who make them. Especially when they have such a hard time putting away their sex pics.

You've hit the nail on the head.

Glad to have a female's perspective on the issue, since another female will ultimately be the one who will have to achieve this understanding.

Maybe others on this site can benefit from my situation??

November 13, 2008

Even though my ex and I share alot of humor in the topic of sex, I assure you our relationship is not sexual - sure, we can hug each other and tell we love one another (again, we've been through ALOT together) but I don't want to cross that border.

The pictures are not pornographic - just some makeout and embracing/hugging - think of a cover picture for a romance movie. I guess I'll have to hide them; they aren't intended for anyone else's eyes but my own.

Yes, as you said prior:

No, they are not that explicit - well, something between PG-13 and R rated.

Perhaps we (I anyway) tend to think of "intimate" as sexual and behaviors not generally appropriate to be viewed in public. That word likely colored some of the responses, including my own.

I still think the lock and key idea is a good one

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