Staying for the Kids?

[Confoozed]

Problem is, you let pure lust emotions, crush like feelings RULE over long lasting love, all that you have with your wife. OFcourse those feelings are intense, but they also aren't focussed on the 'woman' she truly is. It's all based on selfish feelings, in the heat of the moment stuff..Not everyday crap, day in and day out routine.

 

I have trouble believing it's nothing more than pure lust. Really? I had gotten to know the OW very well and, yes, we even argued, and yes, I can even see she's not perfect. It just sounds so simplistic to chalk it up to pure animal lust and nothing more. In fact, we were emotionally connected for a long time before we ever got physical.

 

Do you think all affairs are simply about lust?

[Confoozed]

Then that's your ego talking. If you TRULY loved her and wanted what was best for her, then you'd wish her well and WANT to see her happy with someone else, seeing as you're married, have kids and aren't leaving your wife. Let her go. You have no choice.

 

You're right.

 

Work on your marriage, for the sake of your kids, MAKE IT WORK. You owe that to them. They deserve to have a normal upbringing, with two loving parents, so THAT should be very important. To have stablity in their lives.

 

Really? So no matter what, do it for the kids? And then what? They'll be grown and gone before I'm 50. I'd like to think I still have some good years left in me after that and I'd like them to be happy ones.

[cherrymoon]

No not at all.

 

Mine wasn't anyway.

 

I was emotionally attached the sex wasn't that important, interesting to be with someone else after 15 yrs etc.

 

i was so attached I was blind to his faults, It so wasn't reall. I see him now and I look back over it and I see nothing I would want.

I know it would never have worked out. I knew even then I would never trust him if we were together.

I don't think he is a bad person but he is very very selfish, has huge issues that I would have not been able to cope with long term.

He smoked Gambled and Drank daily, Pub at 6 every week day and twice daily at the weekend.

Very Jealous. really ridiculously Jealous and would not be able to deal with my strong personality daily.

I did truly care for him at the time, I got very hurt.

Now as a healed woman, now that I have been away from the situation I realise it was all about my insecurities and my fears. Stopping contact was really hard and one of us always broke it but he told me things afterwards that showed me who he really was and that person I definitely don't want to be with.

I wasn't his first affair and after seeing the damage an affair causes and the hurt etc I have no interest in being with someone who could knowingly do it a second time, plus he told me that it had happened to him with his first wife, found her in bed with another man.

Who causes that pain to the people they love knowing the true extent of hurt.

 

Once you have established no contact and the affir haze/fog lifts you will start to see the world differently. It didn't properly lift for me within weeks it was 7 mths and then 1 yr when I actually washed my hands entirely of him.

He still tries to make contact. Never will he get a response.

Stay strong you are in the right place

[fingersniffer]

Originally Posted by whichwayisup: If you TRULY loved her and wanted what was best for her, then you'd wish her well and WANT to see her happy with someone else, seeing as you're married, have kids and aren't leaving your wife. Let her go. You have no choice.

 

 

I was emotionally attached the sex wasn't that important, interesting to be with someone else after 15 yrs etc.

I bet that makes your husband feel better now that your saying that your trying to make your relationship work.

 

i was so attached I was blind to his faults, It so wasn't reall. I see him now and I look back over it and I see nothing I would want.

I know it would never have worked out. I knew even then I would never trust him if we were together.

it must be hard for one cheater to trust another... its like when your playing poker... nobody trusts anyone because everyone at the table is a liar. You think he trusted you?

 

I don't think he is a bad person but he is very very selfish, has huge issues that I would have not been able to cope with long term.

Selfish?

Sayes the adulterer. You dont thinkk hes a bad person? thats because your as bad as he is. All cheaters are.

 

I did truly care for him at the time, I got very hurt.

Bummer. Is he married? Hows his wife? Has he kids? Do they get to look you in the eye and tell you that your part of the reason that Mom and Pops arent together?

 

I wasn't his first affair and after seeing the damage an affair causes and the hurt etc I have no interest in being with someone who could knowingly do it a second time, plus he told me that it had happened to him with his first wife, found her in bed with another man.

SO YOU CHOSE TO MIRROR THIS BEHAVIOUR BY SLEEPING WITH HIM???????????????????? oh come on... what does that make you?

 

Who causes that pain to the people they love knowing the true extent of hurt.

You. Did your OM tell you how hurt he was and did you give a damn about how your husband would feel if he ever found out.

 

Once you have established no contact and the affir haze/fog lifts you will start to see the world differently. It didn't properly lift for me within weeks it was 7 mths and then 1 yr when I actually washed my hands entirely of him.

Well thats a releif that it only took you 7 months of cheating and lying to go figure that one out. You want a prize? Come on....

 

It does seem that you are truuely not in this for any reasons other than your own selfishness... And thats the problem with so many cheaters... you get away with being so horribel that its not a problem to you guys to continue to be as selfish as you have been or are still.

 

So many of you cheaters are only out to apese your souls... set your selfs to rest and thats BS... YOU HAVE HURT PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOT DESERVED THAT.

 

Perhaps I hope that your husbands and wifes cheat on you guys... see how it feels then. See if your so stupidly forgiving?

 

 

He still tries to make contact. Never will he get a response.

Why not? you already said in an earlier thread that you still get a feeling when your cell goes that it might be him... that you miss him (although you say you have no feelings towards him...)

 

 

Confoozed:

Lust? Don 't know. Selfishness, greed, disregard, hate, disrespect. I do know.

[whichwayisup]

does the thought of her with another man, giving or being in love with another man bother you?

 

Let's reverse the question here abit... Make it about your wife. How would you feel if your wife was inlove with another man or was physical with another man? Would it drive you crazy, would you feel hurt? What if your wife ended the marriage tomorrow, told you to get out, that she couldn't take it anymore, and within a month, she met someone else - How would you feel?

 

Try to answer these without thinking of the OW. If that's possible.

[whichwayisup]

Really? So no matter what, do it for the kids? And then what? They'll be grown and gone before I'm 50. I'd like to think I still have some good years left in me after that and I'd like them to be happy ones.

 

Yeah, you do it for the kids. You do your best, work on the marriage. If they're grown and out of the house and the love isn't there, then you deal with it then, either leave or sort it out with your wife. Thinking this far ahead is serving NO purpose and isn't helping you. Stay in the NOW, not 10-15 years ahead.

 

I just need to know why it seems you're hellbent on focussing on the negative stuff, that your marriage won't work, that you won't even try to reconnect and try to love your wife again.

 

But, the flipside is if you are hellbent on thinking that the marriage is more or less over, that you can't picture the marriage getting better, you being closer to your wife - Get out of your marriage before you hurt your wife even more. Be alone.

[jwi71]

I do worry about what will happen after the kids are grown up and gone, and that's not too many years away -- probably not much more then 5 or 6. Then what? If we haven't rebuilt our marriage into something we're both happy with, will we then split up? And if we do, will I have screwed my wife out of 5 or 6 years of her life where she could have been free to pursue her own happiness? And will I have missed out on something that could have made me truly happy -- i.e., a life with the OW?

 

This says a lot to me. I find it curious that someone making a real full-blown effort to reconcile would also worry that he is "screwing his wife out of happiness". Strange that you would say that unless you have already decided upon the outcome. OR at least have serious doubts as to MC success. For me, this causes you to withhold and not give 100%. And if you cannot give 100% effort, then your conscience is right - you are screwing her out of years of happiness. If that is the case, listen to your conscience and let her go.

 

Yes, I do fear I'll have regrets if I stay and it doesn't turn out. But I also feel I'll regret not trying to save what we have, because, really, it was pretty good once upon a time, or at least it seemed good at the time.

 

Indecision is a real b*tch. Sounds like you cannot make up your mind to fully commit to MC. Stay or go? Pros and cons? The OW is soooo perfect, yet you can remember why you married your W? Wondering if you can recapture that. Well, you can't recapture it with your OW still in your heart and mind.

 

Gotta choose. The OW who is still more fantasy than reality (you aren't living 24X7X365...so many unknowns). The W with whom you remember better times. Doubtless you care for both. But holding on to both screws everyone out of those years of happiness.

 

My suggestion. Choose your W. Statistically, per our MC, less than 5% of relationships born of an affair lasts 5 years.

 

Good luck.

[Owl]

You're right.

 

 

 

Really? So no matter what, do it for the kids? And then what? They'll be grown and gone before I'm 50. I'd like to think I still have some good years left in me after that and I'd like them to be happy ones.

 

Yes, do it for the kids...for now.

 

You see, you're trying to sit here and think about forever...you've got your eyes up too high, and that's why you're not wanting to believe that its possible.

 

Don't think about forever...or about when you're 50.

 

For right now...stop thinking about that far down the road.

 

Stay for the RIGHT NOW. Work on the marriage for the RIGHT NOW.

 

Give it some time to process, FOR NOW.

 

And put a check mark on the calendar to raise your eyes up again and look around say in about six months...so that you can see where things are at then compared to now.

 

Stop worrying about years from now...the problems you've got to deal with are in your face right now. Work on those, instead of wondering about the future.

[Dexter Morgan]

I've been reading a lot of threads on this and other forums about the reasons MM/MW choose to stay in their marriages instead of taking up with the OW/OM or striking out on their own, and one of the reasons that comes up time and again is "the kids".

 

I am a very recently former WS who still has strong feelings for and a desire to be with the OW (so maybe I'm not yet a "former" WS, though there's been NC for over a month now) and I feel very much like the kids are the reason I am trying to rebuild my marriage.

 

Then you are doing it for the wrong reason and isn't fair to your wife who might have hopes that things will be better again.

 

 

 

I told that to my T this past week and she basically said: "So what? It doesn't really matter why you're back, so long as you're committed to work on your marriage." That surprised me.

 

It should surprise you, because its ridiculous.

 

 

I thought she'd tell me it's unfair to my wife to cling to the marriage for any other reason than I loved her and wanted to be with her.

 

I don't know who "T" is, but yes, it is unfair to your wife to pretend to work on the marriage because you want to keep her. Because you aren't doing it for her.

 

 

To be clear, I do love her

 

Then why did you cheat on her? I'm sorry. Nobody is going to ever convince me that you can cheat on someone you claim to love.

 

"Love should have brought your ass home last night!" --Halle Berry in Boomerang.

 

 

 

and I do believe our marriage is salvageable. The problems in it are primarily my own. She really is as good a wife as a guy could have.

 

And there is a man out there for her that will appreciate that and love her.

 

 

So, really, is it NOT unfair for me to be back just for the kids? Or is it ok, as my T says, as long as I intend to improve our marriage in the process? (And I do, by the way.)

 

The marriage will only be improved on the surface. Thats it.

[frannie]

I've thought about that and the answer, strangely, is no. In fact, it bothers me more to think of the OW with someone else. What do you think that says about things?

 

Let's reverse the question here abit... Make it about your wife. How would you feel if your wife was inlove with another man or was physical with another man? Would it drive you crazy, would you feel hurt? What if your wife ended the marriage tomorrow, told you to get out, that she couldn't take it anymore, and within a month, she met someone else - How would you feel?

 

Try to answer these without thinking of the OW. If that's possible.

 

WWIU, he already did answer that question (see response I've quoted). He says it wouldn't bother him if his W was involved with someone else emotionally and sexually. To me that says everything, really. Couple it with the fact he thinks he's misleading his W and depriving her of 5 more years when she could be finding someone else. He's already checked out of the marriage, and truly would be 'staying for the kids' (not for her). So once the kids are gone, she'd be on her own, 5 years older.

 

Obviously there are some who feel that's fine, because the kids get to have their parents together til they're more mature. But more mature people don't necessarily handle the divorce of their parents any better than younger children. The thing is, you're never going to know.

 

Of course the rest of the picture is the idea of 'the fog' and how, in a year or so you'll have 'come to your senses' and realise that what you had with the OW was just smoke and mirrors. Only you can make a judgement on that, and as you say, OP, that's not easy, because you cannot tell reality from 'fantasy', or compare two futures that have not happened yet... a future with your W, or one with your OW (or alone, if that's how it turned out).

 

You asked about other MM/OW situations that worked out, and I have read of some on the OW board. A couple of posters over there have parents or relatives or friends who are long-term married former MM/OW, so its not as rare as rocking horse do-do, evidently.

[Owl]

Of course the rest of the picture is the idea of 'the fog' and how, in a year or so you'll have 'come to your senses' and realise that what you had with the OW was just smoke and mirrors. Only you can make a judgement on that, and as you say, OP, that's not easy, because you cannot tell reality from 'fantasy', or compare two futures that have not happened yet... a future with your W, or one with your OW (or alone, if that's how it turned out).

 

Here's the problem with this, Frannie.

 

At the point he's at in all of this...he's the LEAST qualified to make that judgement right now. Because of the fog, the "re-written marital history", the withdrawl he's going through...

 

Right now, there's no way that he CAN imagine a better future with his wife. Its pretty much impossible for him to think like that at the moment.

 

That's WHY he's being told to "wait and see".

 

Because that "waiting" will give him the time to deal with all of these things, and BEGIN "seeing" with eyes that aren't clouded with affair fog, and a mind that's not distorted with all this confusion.

[jwi71]

WWIU, he already did answer that question (see response I've quoted). He says it wouldn't bother him if his W was involved with someone else emotionally and sexually. To me that says everything, really. Couple it with the fact he thinks he's misleading his W and depriving her of 5 more years when she could be finding someone else. He's already checked out of the marriage, and truly would be 'staying for the kids' (not for her). So once the kids are gone, she'd be on her own, 5 years older.

 

Wait, wait, wait. OP...what do you mean "...once the kids are gone..."?

 

You can't possibly be referring to them passing away. So you must be referring to them being "gone and out of the house" typically 18 in the US. If that is so...are you staying so you won't have to pay child support? Is that your motivation?

 

Is this driven by finances alone?

[Confoozed]

Wait, wait, wait. OP...what do you mean "...once the kids are gone..."?

 

You can't possibly be referring to them passing away. So you must be referring to them being "gone and out of the house" typically 18 in the US. If that is so...are you staying so you won't have to pay child support? Is that your motivation?

 

Is this driven by finances alone?

 

You're right, I'm not referring to them dying. I'm referring to them being old enough that they'd have struck out on their own, when they won't be in need of a fulltime dad.

 

Finances don't even enter into the equation here. My god, no. What I was talking about is the responsibility to be there for them as a dad while they're at home still -- be there in the morning to get them off to school, be there in the evening to hang with them, help with homework, be there on the weekends to get them to hockey and soccer and just be with them.

 

I know very well that parental responsibilities don't end when they leave home, but they're gone and don't need fulltime parenting anymore at that point, and they're far less impacted if their parents split up.

[jwi71]

You're right, I'm not referring to them dying. I'm referring to them being old enough that they'd have struck out on their own, when they won't be in need of a fulltime dad.

 

Finances don't even enter into the equation here. My god, no. What I was talking about is the responsibility to be there for them as a dad while they're at home still -- be there in the morning to get them off to school, be there in the evening to hang with them, help with homework, be there on the weekends to get them to hockey and soccer and just be with them.

 

I know very well that parental responsibilities don't end when they leave home, but they're gone and don't need fulltime parenting anymore at that point, and they're far less impacted if their parents split up.

 

Completely understand the sentiment.

Even if you leave, you can still attend all those events - nothing keeping you from showing up and supporting your kids. You and your W can put the needs of them above all else. You simply have to choose it.

 

My issue is the lack of 100% effort per an earlier post of mine. For MC to have any chance, you need to completely and wholly put yourself into it. If you cannot, then stop going. You are wasting your time, your W's time and your T's time (not to mention the money). And you will be wasting precious years of your life, your OW's life and your W's life. It is already on your mind and you're right - its unfair to all three of you.

 

Would you be open to a trial separation? Even an "unofficial" one?

 

**EDIT

 

Sounded like I was pro-divorce. In this case I'm not convinced its the beat solution right now with the given facts. Would you consider talking about those fears in MC with your W? I was in that boat too, same fears actually. Normal I think. They didn't really subside until I talked to my W about them. In sessions and at home.

 

But it akes 100% effort. You can't hold back. And you gotta say "bye" to the OW for now.

[babymax]

Confoozed,

 

Yes, please do it for your kids. My mother had an affair. I hate her because she didn't work hard to save her marriage. Instead she went looking for happiness elsewhere but home. It was so convenient. Her OM gave her happiness. No need to work on her boring, unsatisfied marriage. A good marriage takes work. She didn't want that hard work.

 

At least you're trying to save your marriage. Your wife deserves better. This is your chance. You might have a better life with your OW. But nobody knows the future. I'm glad your dad had a happy life with OW. I hope your mom found a new love too.

 

My mother divorced my father and married OM. Though their affair lasted over 10 years (I couldn't believe it when I found out), the marriage only lasted 8 months. My mother was so sure OM was the one to spend the rest of her life with. She was wrong. It didn't surprise me.

 

You're lucky to have a wife like yours. My father wasn't.http://www.loveshack.org/forums/images/red/smilies/mad.gif

 

Take care.

[OWoman]

Confoozed,

 

Yes, please do it for your kids. My mother had an affair. I hate her because she didn't work hard to save her marriage. Instead she went looking for happiness elsewhere but home. It was so convenient. Her OM gave her happiness. No need to work on her boring, unsatisfied marriage. A good marriage takes work. She didn't want that hard work.

 

At least you're trying to save your marriage. Your wife deserves better. This is your chance. You might have a better life with your OW. But nobody knows the future. I'm glad your dad had a happy life with OW. I hope your mom found a new love too.

 

My mother divorced my father and married OM. Though their affair lasted over 10 years (I couldn't believe it when I found out), the marriage only lasted 8 months. My mother was so sure OM was the one to spend the rest of her life with. She was wrong. It didn't surprise me.

 

You're lucky to have a wife like yours. My father wasn't.http://www.loveshack.org/forums/images/red/smilies/mad.gif

 

Take care.

 

As a counter point to this - my father stayed "for the kids". It was the wrong thing to do. We were all very miserable and I used to beg him to divorce my mother. He finally did once we'd left home, and he married his OW. They're still together now more than 25 years later - far longer than he was with my mother - and more in love than ever. We all get on really well with his wife - she's great - and just wished we could all have had that happiness earlier.

[Holding-On]

Confoozed:

 

I do not think that 5-6 years will be a waste for your wife if you continue to talk and be honest together. The marriage lessons you will discover together, the communications skills, they will all serve her well in a future relationship. Also, as she is intelligent (from your posts), the 5-6 years will give her some time to prepare for divorce also. She can get herself more financially/emotionally set up/ready for it. This is providing you can be honest with each other.

 

I do not think it is a bad idea to stay for your kids childhood. Just from the logistical perspective. My parents waited until we were grown up to split. They were unhappy and we children did ask them to get divorced when we were young but now, with children of my own, I can see that they worked much better as a team. They had weakness where the other had strengths, parenting wise.

 

I think that the rocky time of adolescence was made much easier because I did not have to deal with my parents divorcing (it was a very nasty divorce in the end) or the logistics of where we were sleeping that night etc.

 

If you wait 5-6 years, your children will be grown, you may have improved things with your wife and changed your mind or at least you will be friends if you have put the effort in, the housing market and your financial situation is likely to be better and overall it may make the most sense. You are already NC with your OW, you do not have to drag her back into your emotional life that you haven't figured out. You'll just be stringing her along at this point IMO.

 

As to why some affairs end up happy like your dad's, it could simply be that the person married young/less mature, grew a great deal and ended up better able to assess the true type of person that would make him/her happy longterm.

[whichwayisup]

Maybe the best thing to do is separate and be alone. Have limited contact with your wife, because of the kids - But stay in NC mode with the OW. Don't even call her and let her know that you're alone. Use that alone time to figure stuff out, away from EVERYONE.

 

Just an idea to think about.

[reddog63]

I've been reading a lot of threads on this and other forums about the reasons MM/MW choose to stay in their marriages instead of taking up with the OW/OM or striking out on their own, and one of the reasons that comes up time and again is "the kids".

 

I am a very recently former WS who still has strong feelings for and a desire to be with the OW (so maybe I'm not yet a "former" WS, though there's been NC for over a month now) and I feel very much like the kids are the reason I am trying to rebuild my marriage.

 

I told that to my T this past week and she basically said: "So what? It doesn't really matter why you're back, so long as you're committed to work on your marriage." That surprised me. I thought she'd tell me it's unfair to my wife to cling to the marriage for any other reason than I loved her and wanted to be with her.

 

To be clear, I do love her and I do believe our marriage is salvageable. The problems in it are primarily my own. She really is as good a wife as a guy could have. But I feel like we've lost whatever connection we once had and I think that if it weren't for the kids, I would be inclined to leave her....for the OW.

 

So, really, is it NOT unfair for me to be back just for the kids? Or is it ok, as my T says, as long as I intend to improve our marriage in the process? (And I do, by the way.)

 

Confoozed.....I can relate to your situation. In fact I just read your entire thread because I am faced with the same situation.

 

The only difference is I dont have another woman. I did years back but it was brief. I also have been separated for 15 months. I enjoyed living by myself and do not think it would be that tuff to be on my own. Would it get old? Would I regret it? Not sure.

 

So, here i was.......wanting to be on own, wanting to experience dating, etc, wanting to "explore life" on my own since I was married so young. Felt the disconnect with my wife too. Although she is a great person etc.

My time was up, I needed to make a choice.

 

I wrestle/wrestled with this decision for years. Stay for kids? Or be honest to inner feelings and leave? Very tough choice for me.

 

I finally decided to come back home. I will try to ignore my second guessing regarding my decision.

 

I like the points made about not looking to far in the future. Would be nice to get the kids grown and if it is not working out at that time, it will be much easier and I doubt I will have any regrets about giving them a good childhood.

[MichelleS1983]

Are there any stories out there where these things actually do work out? What's the secret? Dumb luck?

No, it's not dumb luck. It really boils down to being an incredibly selfish, self absorbed person whose only looking out for their own interests. If you have this ability (like your father....does the apple fall from from the tree?) then you're in like Flynn.

 

Oh - and how altruistic of you to pretend you want your wife back when it's really the kids (supposedly) you're going back for. If I were your wife and knew this VERY IMPORTANT piece of information you're witholding from her - that it's not love for HER that's bringing you back - your ass would be kicked to the curb so fast your mother would feel it.

[Lookingforward]

Then again, there are some W who really don't care why he's back, just as long as he is and they can delude themselves their M is "intact".........

[signedin2008]

Confoosed, just picturing your wife with another man. Are you going to be okay with it? Are you going to be okay seeing some man holding her at your kid's birthday party? What about images of them being together after the party?

 

Are you sure you'll be okay with that, especially when your fantasy/affair ends?

[frannie]

No, it's not dumb luck. It really boils down to being an incredibly selfish, self absorbed person whose only looking out for their own interests. If you have this ability (like your father....does the apple fall from from the tree?) then you're in like Flynn.

 

Oh - and how altruistic of you to pretend you want your wife back when it's really the kids (supposedly) you're going back for. If I were your wife and knew this VERY IMPORTANT piece of information you're witholding from her - that it's not love for HER that's bringing you back - your ass would be kicked to the curb so fast your mother would feel it.

 

So a man who leaves a marriage for his personal reasons (no longer loves or has a good relationship with his W) is 'incredibly selfish and self-absorbed? But a woman who leaves a marriage for her personal reasons (is not loved by H) is quite within her rights to divorce?

 

Smells very double-standardsy to me.

[Mino]

The thought of staying for the kids is NUTS!!! What is up with all the self scacrificing people? We are all entitled to JOY, LOVE, HAPPINESS and PASSION in our lives. YES, of coarse the children are important, but parents can coparent successfully.Which children adapt to much easier then you think. The end result is that all end up with a fullfilling life. The wife will have a chance to find love again,which SHE deserves. I just dont get it with everybodys OP that they have to wait till the kids are out of the house, I think the sooner the better, and the younger they are the easier it is...GGGEZZZZZ

[Owl]

Mino...the other part of it is this...the longer the OP stays...and stays in NC with the OW...the higher the probability that the marriage really can recover from the affair.

 

Stop and see the "bigger picture" for a moment...this sets the stage to give the marriage a CHANCE to recover.

 

If he left...that negates the CHANCE.

 

If he stays...he can always leave later if it DOESN'T recover.