Aquarius Guy Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 I was trying to encourage son to budget better, while helping him out occasionally when he was short. My wife was also over the family budget, so I told my son to ask my wife when he needed money, with the idea that my wife would see the budget picture better. Now my wife is just further over the family budget. Now my son is planning to follow one of his ideas that does not fit into his budget. He wants more money. My son used to say he could get advice from his friends, when I suggested he get financial planning or counseling help. His friends are not helping him with his budget. There are things I can take away. He has E-mail and voice message on his cell phone, so I can present concepts to him. One option is to tell him that his firends are in disneyland. Another option is to mention that he needs to develop more personal power to resist bad ideas from his friends. Maybe he needs to give his Friends better advice, particularly when they have ideas that don't fit into his budget. I could make an Excel spreadsheet of his expenses, and E-mail the Spreadsheet as an attachment. Also give the spreadsheet to my wife. I had made one up previouly, maybe I will dust it off. Maybe pharases like. "I am not impressed with the advice you have been getting from the people you think are your friends." ..
Geishawhelk Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 What are you asking here.....I don't see a question or request for help.....
Author Aquarius Guy Posted November 8, 2008 Author Posted November 8, 2008 I am looking for strategies and phrases to help my son better plan his finances, budget, jobs, recreational activities and career training.
me4u2 Posted November 8, 2008 Posted November 8, 2008 Nothing is more obvious than showing it to him in black and white (and since your wife is over the budget too, she might want to sit in on your session). I think the first thing is the spreadsheet of income and expenses. Once you show him what he has coming in versus going out, it's pretty simple to explain to him how he doesn't have any money left over since he's gotten himself over the budget/in debt. In addition, it will be easier to further substantiate the fact that his friends or advice he's getting is off base since you can continue to point to the spreadsheet with the facts. I'd also drive home the fact that while he's getting this advice from friends that he values, it doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're doing when it comes to finances and budgeting. Some of the nicest people I know are in debt up to their ears and not by lack of income, but more by ridiculous choices that lack common sense. Hope he listens.
Trialbyfire Posted November 8, 2008 Posted November 8, 2008 How old is your son? It appears to me by your comments, that he's of an age where he should be relatively financially independent. Cut him off at source.
jayOG Posted November 9, 2008 Posted November 9, 2008 How old is your son? It appears to me by your comments, that he's of an age where he should be relatively financially independent. Cut him off at source. I agree, "Cut him off at the source." However, the truly effective way to make him understand is to say the source is dwindling. If you simply cut him off he might be inclined to believe that you are a bad parent and don't care about him. If you say that you are coming up on hard times and you have exhausted every avenue and that he must take some responsibility than he cannot blame you. He will than be forced to budget his income. The excel sheets are useless... Numbers don't mean anything to people who don't know how to read them... They don't understand the consequences that the numbers represent in real life. Also tell him he will have to pay his cell phone bill. He will have to learn how to make the call to pay the bill, set up a bank account, decide if e-mail and voice mail are too expensive, etc... Excellent expericence...
Angel1111 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 First of all, if your son is an adult, you're only crippling him by continuing to give him money. If he's in college and relying on you, you need to make him aware that there's a limit to your "funding". Your wife is also out of control and disrespectful of you and where your lives and futures are headed. Having said all that, I have a solution. You can put spreadsheets in front of them all day long but it will have no effect until they fully understand the depth of their own stupidity. So, I totally, 100% recommend that you go to Dave Ramsey's website, find a Financial Peace University class that's being taught in your area and tell both of them - your wife and son - that the three of you are going to go to this class together. It's a 13-wk course. If they refuse, tell them you're cutting them both off completely. If your wife wants to go down the financial road of destruction, then let her go by herself. Don't let her drag you down with her. And as for your son, I'd made sure he understood quite clearly that as an adult, he's on his own, and that if he wants to continue to take advice from his buddies, that's his option - but you won't be around to bail him out. Dave's class is so powerful that it can literally turn marriages around. He teaches very workable solutions where both people feel heard and where you work together on joint goals, while still enjoying your lives. And believe it or not, you'll even learn where you are contributing to your wife's resistance, and where you're contributing to your son's ignorance. So, really, all of you will win by going to his class. It is nothing short of amazing. His teachings completely changed my life and how I look at money. Don't waste another second - check it out. Maybe you'll want to give this class to them (and yourself) as a Christmas gift. It's the best money you'll ever spend. I promise.
2sure Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 While I am not familiar with the class Angel111 describes...her advice is always sound and thoughtful...I would seriously consider it. Unless a person keeps and answers to their own CHECKBOOK, he will not learn to budget. Forget about the credit cards here - take them. The CHECKBOOK doesnt lie. Its easy to keep track of your expenses. The real beauty lies in the fact that if you dont balance, dont budget...there no more money. Plus your in trouble. After that happens a few times...people catch on. But without the mistakes and the lessons he isnt going to learn to budget, save or handle credit. Good Old fashioned checkbook. WITH NO CASH CARD.
Trialbyfire Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Seriously, the easiest way to stop people from exceeding budgets is to take control of the finances yourself. Then allocate an amount to your wife for whatever her spending needs based on a budget the two of you can work with and if you must, do the same with your son. You don't need two family members spending everyone into the poorhouse. This also means that when they hit zero, you have to stand firm and say, sorry, that's all there is. When belts have to be tightened, it's amazing how quickly people learn how to handle their finances. I do agree that credit cards are killers. Lower the limit and contain the damage to one credit card.
Angel1111 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Seriously, the easiest way to stop people from exceeding budgets is to take control of the finances yourself. Then allocate an amount to your wife for whatever her spending needs based on a budget the two of you can work with and if you must, do the same with your son. You don't need two family members spending everyone into the poorhouse. This also means that when they hit zero, you have to stand firm and say, sorry, that's all there is. When belts have to be tightened, it's amazing how quickly people learn how to handle their finances. I do agree that credit cards are killers. Lower the limit and contain the damage to one credit card. A lot of what you say is true - I put my son on a budget and he happily lives by it because he knows I mean it. It's not that he was rebellious before, but I gave him the impression that my money bascially had few limits. He has gone with me to the Dave Ramsey classes and looks at life in a completley different way now. He's 18 now and will be off to college next year. I can guarantee you that if he's not a millionaire by the time he's 30, he will be by the time he's 40. And even though I've made a bunch of financial mistakes, I am now back on track and will retire very comfortably. That's because our entire mindsets about money have shifted and we'll never look at money and debt the same way again. I'm not exaggerating when I talk about the power of Dave's classes. And he doesn't tell you not to have a life while you're doing all these things. You can still have fun. The only thing I disagree with is keeping one credit card. You don't need any credit cards. Lose them all and never get another one. Save up $1,000 for emergencies and then cut up all your credit cards. If you don't have the cash to buy whatever it is that you want, then don't buy it until you have the money.
Trialbyfire Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Angel, I won't disagree that credit card debt can kill you. The parts that are difficult to handle with no credit cards, are online purchases, subscriptions and emergency situations like getting your car towed, etc. This is why I recommend that the one cc limit be kept low, potentially somewhere between $500 - $1000. Perhaps the way to do this is to see how well each person handles their cc. If they're irresponsible, get rid of it.
carhill Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 There are things I can take away. He has E-mail and voice message on his cell phone, so I can present concepts to him. Great starting point. Tomorrow he gets his own cell phone account. I remember paying for my own phone line when I was a teenager. It was the only way I could use the phone for as long as I wanted. Really strong motivator. Don't present concepts. He's not eight. He's an adult. You stopped parenting more than a decade ago in a meaningful way. His mind is molded. Now it's time for him to hate you. I love this part.
Angel1111 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Angel, I won't disagree that credit card debt can kill you. The parts that are difficult to handle with no credit cards, are online purchases, subscriptions and emergency situations like getting your car towed, etc. This is why I recommend that the one cc limit be kept low, potentially somewhere between $500 - $1000. Perhaps the way to do this is to see how well each person handles their cc. If they're irresponsible, get rid of it. Have a debit card and $1,000 in savings, then you're covered. Studies show that when people use cash, it registers as pain and you're less likely to spend freely. A debit card also registers some pain because it's tied to the cash in your bank account. You're more prone to spend money with a credit card, so regardless of whether you're responsible with paying it off or not, you're more likely to spend.
Angel1111 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Great starting point. Tomorrow he gets his own cell phone account. I remember paying for my own phone line when I was a teenager. It was the only way I could use the phone for as long as I wanted. Really strong motivator. Don't present concepts. He's not eight. He's an adult. You stopped parenting more than a decade ago in a meaningful way. His mind is molded. Now it's time for him to hate you. I love this part. Right. Even though my son gets a certain amount of money from me, he also pays me for his cell phone and part of his car insurance. It may seem like a redundant exchange of money but I think he needs to pay me - as in, hand the cash to me - so that he remembers that he's paying me for those things. If I just deducted the $150/mo that he pays me from the money I give him, he'd totally forget that he's paying for those things. Plus it teaches him responsibility to pay me the $75 twice a month. Also, when he asked me about getting a checking account when he first started working, I suggested that he hold off for one year and use cash for everything so that he associated spending with cash, instead of his purchases just becoming numbers in his head. This year when he opened his account, he told me that using cash for that long was the best thing I ever did for him. (Yes, I actually did something right.)
Trialbyfire Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Have a debit card and $1,000 in savings, then you're covered. Studies show that when people use cash, it registers as pain and you're less likely to spend freely. A debit card also registers some pain because it's tied to the cash in your bank account. You're more prone to spend money with a credit card, so regardless of whether you're responsible with paying it off or not, you're more likely to spend. You make a lot of sense but not everything can be purchased or paid for online with a debit card. If paypal were more widely accepted, it's possible, although I wouldn't trust anyone to have access to any bank account of mine, at least online. Paypal has been hacked in the past.
lovestruck818 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I am looking for strategies and phrases to help my son better plan his finances, budget, jobs, recreational activities and career training. Maybe get a job would be good idea #1...
carhill Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 My parents were more rigid, perhaps compensating for my being an only child. Besides the phone line, I bought my own car, had my own insurance for it and paid for all my own "extras" and paid rent once I decided to work instead of finishing college. The flipside was, as I've mentioned here prior, my dad matched every dollar I saved prior to turning 18 (started at 11 when I started working). Couldn't touch his part until I was "an adult". Used it for the down payment on my first house. Looking back, most of the molding was actually done before adolescence, hence my comment in my prior post. IMO, "owing" mom and dad is very different than having personal responsibility to a creditor/vendor. The cool thing about the latter is that it builds one's financial history from a much younger age. I had a credit rating and credit card back when I was a teenager and this was when credit cards were relatively new. Giving me that responsibility is something I've always been thankful to my parents for. Money, even the lack of it, doesn't scare me or rule me. It's just a method of independence.
Angel1111 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 You make a lot of sense but not everything can be purchased or paid for online with a debit card. If paypal were more widely accepted, it's possible, although I wouldn't trust anyone to have access to any bank account of mine, at least online. Paypal has been hacked in the past. Well, that's never happened to me but you make a good point.
carhill Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I've been banking and using credit cards online for about a decade now. The key is to have an internet-specific bank account and use virtual credit cards, if you're concerned about cracking/theft. I have never had an issue in thousands of transactions and I do use real credit card numbers online. My only theft issues have been IRL, in restaurants. Never hurts to be safe/secure, but just wanted to provide an anecdote from an early-adopter who's had very good experiences with both credit cards and online business, both paying and receiving. Oh, BTW, I've had a Paypal account since late 1999, mainly for eBay purchases and sales. Never one problem, though that doesn't mean others haven't had problems. I've received and made payments from 5.00 to over 5,000 without issue. TBH, my wife has had more issues with her merchant account (that's a POS credit card terminal in her case) than I ever have had with Paypal. Judicious use of such avenues and relevant promotions have allowed us the benefit of traveling the world very inexpensively. Win-win
Trialbyfire Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I've experienced credit card fraud before which is why I'm extremely cautious about anyone or anything having access to any of my bank accounts. The particular credit card that it affected, was setup for the express purpose of online purchases. It had a $500 limit, so there wasn't anything outrageous that could be purchased. The fraud went on for 4 months, where each month I disputed the charges so they were reversed by the cc company. Finally, I got completely fed up and demanded a new cc number and any and all forex losses reversed from the false charges. The cc company did everything for me. With a bank account, I have no idea how that would have turned out. Be very careful about online purchases and private information.
Angel1111 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I've experienced credit card fraud before which is why I'm extremely cautious about anyone or anything having access to any of my bank accounts. The particular credit card that it affected, was setup for the express purpose of online purchases. It had a $500 limit, so there wasn't anything outrageous that could be purchased. The fraud went on for 4 months, where each month I disputed the charges so they were reversed by the cc company. Finally, I got completely fed up and demanded a new cc number and any and all forex losses reversed from the false charges. The cc company did everything for me. With a bank account, I have no idea how that would have turned out. Be very careful about online purchases and private information. Credit card fraud is no joke and that's terrible that you went through that. I do recall that debit cards are insured the same way credit cards are insured when they're used as credit cards, however, I'm not sure how that would've effected you in this case. Dave Ramsey talks about fraud and how the credit card companies will treat you like you're the criminal when you report fraud. But he also says not to give up and keep on pursuing it so that they will pay you back. It's just a game they played with you in order to not to have to pay the charges. See how it worked? They do it all the time. You're right that a card with a $500 limit will only allow so much damage. I have experienced my bank shutting down my debit card when I've made unusual purchases or did unusual things, and I was kind of impressed with that. But you never know and you have to do what makes you feel safe. I'm sure that once a person has been the victim of something like that, you don't ever forget it. I am personally very cautious about online purchases, too.
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